Taustin, if you have any specific questions concerning evolution, I invite you to ask them at the following thread (I do not wish to bog down Orion's thread with evolutionary lessons):
Proof of Evolution
The purpose of the thread is not so much for debate, but rather for those who are truly curious about any particular process of evolution that they would like to learn more about.
Full Version: Secret Messages in Nature
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History
I once believed in evolution when I was an administrator and instructor at the university, but now I have seen evidence of something much more powerful in our existence. Not only are we manipulated genetically on this planet, but some parts of it can actually be found in a kind of broadcast of genetic placers. The universe is indeed much more than our petty little scientists once posited...it is massive and way beyond our ability to comprehend.
Some evidence indicates that we are in touch with the frontiers of a hyper-fractalian laced feedback-loop (fractal geometry used in computer graphics) that interconnects both the beginning, end, and after of our lives, in an infinite process full of God's interactive exchange. God existing outside of time interacts with our paths to create spirals of looping familiarity. Researchers such as Timothy Ferris, who wrote the 1992 version of The Mind's Sky, have equated the mind with the universe. Ferris' work involves the synthesis of inner and outer realities. Whereas, most of us cannot comprehend our own reason/s for mental existence because our current human baggage is too heavy with the preoccupation of flesh or matter.
Much has been written about the relationship of the universe and mankind's mind. The beginning of this research usually starts with our birth. In the July '93 issue of Life Magazine, there is an article that raves about recent breakthroughs by scientists in their studies of infants and how they are coming to the realization that babies are much more enlightened than we had once thought. Apparently, the little ones are perfectly capable of very sophisticated operations requiring memory and understandings about math physics and emotions -- subjects once reserved for scientific elitists. Some believe the embryo is already learning as his neurons are forming and firing -- building a physical, thinking enclave on this side of the cosmos.
Some evidence indicates that we are in touch with the frontiers of a hyper-fractalian laced feedback-loop (fractal geometry used in computer graphics) that interconnects both the beginning, end, and after of our lives, in an infinite process full of God's interactive exchange. God existing outside of time interacts with our paths to create spirals of looping familiarity. Researchers such as Timothy Ferris, who wrote the 1992 version of The Mind's Sky, have equated the mind with the universe. Ferris' work involves the synthesis of inner and outer realities. Whereas, most of us cannot comprehend our own reason/s for mental existence because our current human baggage is too heavy with the preoccupation of flesh or matter.
Much has been written about the relationship of the universe and mankind's mind. The beginning of this research usually starts with our birth. In the July '93 issue of Life Magazine, there is an article that raves about recent breakthroughs by scientists in their studies of infants and how they are coming to the realization that babies are much more enlightened than we had once thought. Apparently, the little ones are perfectly capable of very sophisticated operations requiring memory and understandings about math physics and emotions -- subjects once reserved for scientific elitists. Some believe the embryo is already learning as his neurons are forming and firing -- building a physical, thinking enclave on this side of the cosmos.
And, of course, I also try and offer something a little more substantial than simply my word on a subject to back up any claims I might make.
Erm... some people's ideas are really messed up, i suggest you to research about theories of the origin of life, yes, they're just theories but some of them are damn good, logical ones.
In my country we study all of those theories in school at biology, still, i see a lot of ignorant answers here, unless you guys are 16 years old kids theres no excuse for this kind of ignorance.
Genetic mutations are one of the evolutionary mechanisms so yes, probably they're the origin of the zebras stripes and i repeat, probably. Natural Selection polished this feature, thats it, pure logic.
As a note, im an Inteligent Design theory supporter, i believe superior beings (in terms of evolution) created life and consequently all species but im still very sceptic about most of the things i read here, they make no sense and they're illogical. Darwins theory has no flaws, the natural selection mechanism is perfect, do your homework and read about Darwins theories before negating them. I mean, how can anyone rejects evolution at our days? How life was created? By a *Puff*? God? Whats God? Theres no God, we can be gods trough evolution, the ultimate goal of life is to evolve.
In my country we study all of those theories in school at biology, still, i see a lot of ignorant answers here, unless you guys are 16 years old kids theres no excuse for this kind of ignorance.
Genetic mutations are one of the evolutionary mechanisms so yes, probably they're the origin of the zebras stripes and i repeat, probably. Natural Selection polished this feature, thats it, pure logic.
As a note, im an Inteligent Design theory supporter, i believe superior beings (in terms of evolution) created life and consequently all species but im still very sceptic about most of the things i read here, they make no sense and they're illogical. Darwins theory has no flaws, the natural selection mechanism is perfect, do your homework and read about Darwins theories before negating them. I mean, how can anyone rejects evolution at our days? How life was created? By a *Puff*? God? Whats God? Theres no God, we can be gods trough evolution, the ultimate goal of life is to evolve.
Sorry, your schools must be way behind the curve. Darwin is a tool for Liberal theory. He has been shown wrong a million times over. Secondly, I was not born yesterday, and I will bet that before it is over (time) it will be shown that I am right about the Zebra being a message from the past genetic practitioners to the future. We are only now approaching this ability now. Perhaps you should catch up.
This is all very interesting, and Orion is and always has been a real hoot...
but I cannot for the life of me get past the idea of divining hidden codes in a zebra's stripes.
I know, the spots on a leopard are some ancient alien shopping list! And the arrangement of liver spots on my alcoholic uncle is a word-for-word reproduction of the 2nd act of "H.M.S. Pinafore."
but I cannot for the life of me get past the idea of divining hidden codes in a zebra's stripes.
I know, the spots on a leopard are some ancient alien shopping list! And the arrangement of liver spots on my alcoholic uncle is a word-for-word reproduction of the 2nd act of "H.M.S. Pinafore."
I already explained you, step by step, the whole process of the creation of the zebra stripes but you wont listen, you dont give valid arguments about your "theory" of the crazy alien messages in the zebra stripes. Darwin theory has been show wrong a million times? Where? Show me.
I should catch up with what? Your "theory" is crazy, makes no sense. In our schools (portugal) we learn 2 theories of evolution, the Lamarck one and the Darwin one, unlike you, i know what im talking about, its not my fault your schools dont teach you Darwin's theory.
Start giving us valid arguments about your "theory", you want evolution evidence? The evidences are everywhere, how you explain fossils? They're just a small part of the overall physical record of evolution.
Here's a few links for you, especially the first link - Evidence of Evolution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution#Evidence_of_evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin
I should catch up with what? Your "theory" is crazy, makes no sense. In our schools (portugal) we learn 2 theories of evolution, the Lamarck one and the Darwin one, unlike you, i know what im talking about, its not my fault your schools dont teach you Darwin's theory.
Start giving us valid arguments about your "theory", you want evolution evidence? The evidences are everywhere, how you explain fossils? They're just a small part of the overall physical record of evolution.
Here's a few links for you, especially the first link - Evidence of Evolution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution#Evidence_of_evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin
It's all really magic, we just won't realise and this keeps us trapped..
We are repressing our spirituality and have our minds locked down by forces that are something we can't comprehend.
WWIII is already begun on a spiritual level!
Reading these forums i see the mentality arise all around. People are breaking free by connecting to eachother.
We are repressing our spirituality and have our minds locked down by forces that are something we can't comprehend.
WWIII is already begun on a spiritual level!
Reading these forums i see the mentality arise all around. People are breaking free by connecting to eachother.
Oh god... i give up, its no use 
QUOTE(Portugues @ Feb 17 2006, 01:50 PM) [snapback]1065604[/snapback]
Oh god... i give up, its no use
Don't
You're doing fine...
I would surmise that the kids have arrived. Their mentality is locked and cannot move into the complexity of the next phase of humanity. Perhaps age will indeed give us hope. The processes here are indeed beyond most but those who see the depth of the Human Genome Project and are not utilizing it politically know the potential for creating fractal markers within the genetic manipulation. Just as we have Designers for every faction so do we have the potential for designing genetically. By the by there are no aliens in this universe...we are all cousins.
The kids? You call kids to those who have different ideas from yours? The ones who give valid arguments and evidences? You're the one who's acting childish.
Our mentality is locked and cannot move on the next phase? Well, what has that to do with this topic? Looks like i was correct when i said your ideas are really messed up.
I already showed you almost irrefutable evidences of evolution but still, you guys keep talking about "secret alien messages in zebras stripes", sorry but it sounds ridiculous, i invite you (again) to start giving valid arguments about your "theories".
Our mentality is locked and cannot move on the next phase? Well, what has that to do with this topic? Looks like i was correct when i said your ideas are really messed up.
I already showed you almost irrefutable evidences of evolution but still, you guys keep talking about "secret alien messages in zebras stripes", sorry but it sounds ridiculous, i invite you (again) to start giving valid arguments about your "theories".
I rest my case.
QUOTE
Their mentality is locked and cannot move into the complexity of the next phase of humanity.
If the next phase of humanity is this garble of words then I am glad no one else is at your superior level.
QUOTE(Orion von Koch @ Feb 17 2006, 05:20 PM) [snapback]1065886[/snapback]
I rest my case.
You're out of arguments.
I will wait for those who do understand and there are many who have. I have had students like you who cajole and make jokes, a technique of Informal Fallacy which usually comes from a student about to become a Liberal. So, have you fun.
That would be your fun. I am still not finding the edit button on this site and it once was here.
Methods of Leveraging the Human Mind for Political Power and Control
Primary source: The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy.
Informal fallacy is an error of reasoning or a method of hoodwinking an unknowing audience or group. It is often a method of verbal acrobatics to persuade audiences that through reasoning and argument an issue can be correct, when upon evaluation it is not correct but a lie. This is a means of hyping an issue and spinning it as a truth. Still, it is a lie.
Genetic fallacy is a means of persuading individuals upon the goodness or badness of an issue by using something unrelated but similar by showing the goodness or badness of the issue. A genetic fallacy is often used with a personal attack and serves to reinforce a lie. It will be used to condemn a prior thesis by condemning the base source as the point where an issue goes wrong. The base source may not have any relationship to the end product.
Argumentum ad populum or argument to the crowd or people is a prime example of the statement that everybody is doing it. It is also a statement that is the appeal to the gallery for support of its contention. Some say this is not unlike the mob appeal. What goes wrong with this argument is when exaggeration of the crowd is hyped beyond its real scope. Mass enthusiasm via cheerleading can be a lie when evidence shows the impetus was created by coercion rather than genuine appeal. Many call this the bandwagon effect.
Argumentum ad misericordiam is a methodology used with heaps of pity and emotional blackmail for an apparent wrong done to persons when in essence the facts do not support a need for such high levels of compassion. Using emotionalism to pressure an audience for a weak case is often called false witness for high benefit. Many times it is in reality a threat of becoming miserable or worse to force an issue. Some will even threaten suicide or in a laughing manner say something is to die for. It is an effort to position others as mean and wrong for creating miserable conditions for the one who is threatening. Others may use this method to point up the plight of a constituency to leverage for a change in political behavior…such as asking for tolerance when it already exists.
Fallacy of construction or composition of issues is a means of arguing from the make up of parts that have no relationship to the whole. But, by virtue of known parts the whole should follow.
Fallacy of division is the opposite of the above. It is arguing from the whole and its image to portraying the whole as the part when the part has no overall relationship to the results of the whole.
The fallacy of false cause also called post hoc, ergo propter hoc (after this, therefore because of this). The wrong in this argument is the weight given the causal condition. The quantification and formula may be coincidence and outside sources might cause the coincidence. At times, a third party is hidden and may be the ultimate source of the cause.
The fallacy of secundum quid or arguing from a general condition to a specific outcome or again it is also known as the fallacy of accidental relationships. It is also know as the argument of hasty generalizations where a specific condition is apparent.
Argumentum consensus gentium or the argument of all nations or sources for a point of agreement. This argument is typically utilized by the scientific community when they are presenting a theory about some topic. It is usually an assumption rather than a proven fact though many scientists support the concept. Everyone believes this statement therefore it must be true. Its best utilization is as a point of departure for a later proven fact.
Argumentum ad hominem or refutation of the man and what he/she stands for as a character issue in the arena of ideas. This fallacy is usually used to defuse the character of an opponent and position them as less desirable than the attacker. This method is used to poison the well of an opponent with information that is usually fallacious. If he has been wrong in the past, he is sure to be wrong now. Positioning of dirty laundry in the arena of ideas. When attacked by the ad hominem methodology, many come back with the old What about your stance or tu quoquo.
Primary source: The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy.
Informal fallacy is an error of reasoning or a method of hoodwinking an unknowing audience or group. It is often a method of verbal acrobatics to persuade audiences that through reasoning and argument an issue can be correct, when upon evaluation it is not correct but a lie. This is a means of hyping an issue and spinning it as a truth. Still, it is a lie.
Genetic fallacy is a means of persuading individuals upon the goodness or badness of an issue by using something unrelated but similar by showing the goodness or badness of the issue. A genetic fallacy is often used with a personal attack and serves to reinforce a lie. It will be used to condemn a prior thesis by condemning the base source as the point where an issue goes wrong. The base source may not have any relationship to the end product.
Argumentum ad populum or argument to the crowd or people is a prime example of the statement that everybody is doing it. It is also a statement that is the appeal to the gallery for support of its contention. Some say this is not unlike the mob appeal. What goes wrong with this argument is when exaggeration of the crowd is hyped beyond its real scope. Mass enthusiasm via cheerleading can be a lie when evidence shows the impetus was created by coercion rather than genuine appeal. Many call this the bandwagon effect.
Argumentum ad misericordiam is a methodology used with heaps of pity and emotional blackmail for an apparent wrong done to persons when in essence the facts do not support a need for such high levels of compassion. Using emotionalism to pressure an audience for a weak case is often called false witness for high benefit. Many times it is in reality a threat of becoming miserable or worse to force an issue. Some will even threaten suicide or in a laughing manner say something is to die for. It is an effort to position others as mean and wrong for creating miserable conditions for the one who is threatening. Others may use this method to point up the plight of a constituency to leverage for a change in political behavior…such as asking for tolerance when it already exists.
Fallacy of construction or composition of issues is a means of arguing from the make up of parts that have no relationship to the whole. But, by virtue of known parts the whole should follow.
Fallacy of division is the opposite of the above. It is arguing from the whole and its image to portraying the whole as the part when the part has no overall relationship to the results of the whole.
The fallacy of false cause also called post hoc, ergo propter hoc (after this, therefore because of this). The wrong in this argument is the weight given the causal condition. The quantification and formula may be coincidence and outside sources might cause the coincidence. At times, a third party is hidden and may be the ultimate source of the cause.
The fallacy of secundum quid or arguing from a general condition to a specific outcome or again it is also known as the fallacy of accidental relationships. It is also know as the argument of hasty generalizations where a specific condition is apparent.
Argumentum consensus gentium or the argument of all nations or sources for a point of agreement. This argument is typically utilized by the scientific community when they are presenting a theory about some topic. It is usually an assumption rather than a proven fact though many scientists support the concept. Everyone believes this statement therefore it must be true. Its best utilization is as a point of departure for a later proven fact.
Argumentum ad hominem or refutation of the man and what he/she stands for as a character issue in the arena of ideas. This fallacy is usually used to defuse the character of an opponent and position them as less desirable than the attacker. This method is used to poison the well of an opponent with information that is usually fallacious. If he has been wrong in the past, he is sure to be wrong now. Positioning of dirty laundry in the arena of ideas. When attacked by the ad hominem methodology, many come back with the old What about your stance or tu quoquo.
At what point did “Nature” (or some ancient genetic engineer) decide to genetically map the mathematical "fractallian" precision onto the body of such a beautiful specimen as the Zebra? Did it just manifest through evolution, or is there something more extraordinary to the puzzle? Some believe there must be a gestalt secret entwined within the matrix of biological information and processing of programmable DNA that is evident in the symbol of the stripes. Could it be a created messenger from an ancient geneticist's cause for aesthetic communication across the ages? To think of the complexity involved in such a theory, boggles the mind and upsets more than the old bromide of which came first...the "white horse" or the dark stripes. Something strange and different goes on when one delves deeply beyond the implied common science.
Could the knowledge of non-linear dynamics known by an ancient sentient civilization have genetically manufactured animals, including Zebras, if it had in its possession the basics of Fractal Geometry...could we? In the near future, research will produce a gargantuan amount of geologic and genetic data on the environment and the human genome. Couple this new information with the other leading-edge fields of Holography, Nanotechnology, Super Computers, Virtual Reality, Microbiology, and many more, then use the mathematical loom of Fractals to weave theory into reality, and we may find ourselves face-to-face with a checkered Zebra.
Fractua" is Latin for irregular, so Benoit Mandelbrot (an IBM Fellow) coined the name "fractals" (1980) for his new self-similar geometry, which can emulate the visual dictates of the world of chaos and the dimensional reality of natural forms. Fractal Geometry can define reality in a numerical fashion as it exists in the micro and macro realms...thus digitally mapping all being, via quantum manipulation and on-going change factors which are broadcast within the electromagnetic spectrum and throughout eternity.
The fact that some students of knowledge seem to miss when entranced by the symbol of the Mandelbrot Set's "island molecule," is that it looks exactly like a silhouetted sitting Buddha. To accidentally stumble upon such synchronism between a mathematical equation for reality and a philosophical icon for life (Buddha) is indeed awesome for those who seek the arcane wisdom of the gods. If the two were truly related, perhaps more investigation would bridge the gaps between ancient religion and modern science. Both are really looking for the same understanding of truthful existence in this Universe. However, the point remains...there are no schools of thought higher than Truth...though its secret is ever fleeting.
Issac Asimov reinforced the above by stating that the secrets of the Universe are enfolded in fractals and that the enigma of this constancy will remain forever unknown. Other scientists think otherwise and are in a heated race to frame a fractal-future in a new and fascinating understanding that could finally addresses the concepts of infinite creation through a quantum/holographic/fractal marriage.
Most of Nature still remains hidden from the vision of truth. We must in the coming decade stare to the depths of "what-if-thought" and realize life's deeper understandings. Causes and issues such as the Earth's rain forests being consumed at exponential rates, spurs some of us to fight such economic greed knowing that the plants that grow there are sources of extracts that are far more precious to us as cures for disease rather than being "slashed" lands for coffee or other crops. Their worth is still enfolded within the grasp of Natures packaging waiting for intellectual release.
While predestined cycles approach a point of serendipity, and a plethora of causal ingredients point to a paradigm of why man exists on this earth, some men still see with the veil of illusion crystallized between their retinas and the mind's eye of intuitional knowledge...the sixth sense. Consciousness resides at levels prefixed at the "un," the "sub," and shoots to a high of super-consciousness. Now, psycho-cognitive and other scientific research reinforces old myths into truths that higher understanding only amplifies as mankind sheds its "selfdom" for altruistic beliefs, thereby ushering in a realm of higher consciousness.
How deeply does mankind truly see? Can we match mind to wisdom and perceive that there are greater unknowns (than the Zebra's stripes) just floating around us waiting to be discovered? Or, does the cause of the "ENIGMNI" (the absolute ultimate unknowable) exert its power over mankind's quest to push forever the envelope of reality beyond our own comprehension? Perhaps the evolution of alternative means of thought enabling us to see and understand the makings of the Universe will require exploration of creative pathways that go around old empiric paradigms...systems of doing science that have become the tacit infrastructure (a way of expressing unspeakable, yet concrete concepts of life). Have we become victims of our own complex ignorance and are now unable to participate in the "brainstorm" required for tomorrow’s world? Philosophy and Science must again merge in the search for truth...through a rededication to creativity...the ongoing act.
As to the secret of the Zebra -- could mankind have missed the "point" of the ancient Unicorn in that its symbolic message to us was not the one-horned horse, but the one with the gift of Fractal Geometry on its coat to "point" (guide) our way from the beginnings of our time to the grand leaps required of our complex future. Orientation for a new viewpoint may be dawning. Considering where we are in human development... it is something to think about.
Could the knowledge of non-linear dynamics known by an ancient sentient civilization have genetically manufactured animals, including Zebras, if it had in its possession the basics of Fractal Geometry...could we? In the near future, research will produce a gargantuan amount of geologic and genetic data on the environment and the human genome. Couple this new information with the other leading-edge fields of Holography, Nanotechnology, Super Computers, Virtual Reality, Microbiology, and many more, then use the mathematical loom of Fractals to weave theory into reality, and we may find ourselves face-to-face with a checkered Zebra.
Fractua" is Latin for irregular, so Benoit Mandelbrot (an IBM Fellow) coined the name "fractals" (1980) for his new self-similar geometry, which can emulate the visual dictates of the world of chaos and the dimensional reality of natural forms. Fractal Geometry can define reality in a numerical fashion as it exists in the micro and macro realms...thus digitally mapping all being, via quantum manipulation and on-going change factors which are broadcast within the electromagnetic spectrum and throughout eternity.
The fact that some students of knowledge seem to miss when entranced by the symbol of the Mandelbrot Set's "island molecule," is that it looks exactly like a silhouetted sitting Buddha. To accidentally stumble upon such synchronism between a mathematical equation for reality and a philosophical icon for life (Buddha) is indeed awesome for those who seek the arcane wisdom of the gods. If the two were truly related, perhaps more investigation would bridge the gaps between ancient religion and modern science. Both are really looking for the same understanding of truthful existence in this Universe. However, the point remains...there are no schools of thought higher than Truth...though its secret is ever fleeting.
Issac Asimov reinforced the above by stating that the secrets of the Universe are enfolded in fractals and that the enigma of this constancy will remain forever unknown. Other scientists think otherwise and are in a heated race to frame a fractal-future in a new and fascinating understanding that could finally addresses the concepts of infinite creation through a quantum/holographic/fractal marriage.
Most of Nature still remains hidden from the vision of truth. We must in the coming decade stare to the depths of "what-if-thought" and realize life's deeper understandings. Causes and issues such as the Earth's rain forests being consumed at exponential rates, spurs some of us to fight such economic greed knowing that the plants that grow there are sources of extracts that are far more precious to us as cures for disease rather than being "slashed" lands for coffee or other crops. Their worth is still enfolded within the grasp of Natures packaging waiting for intellectual release.
While predestined cycles approach a point of serendipity, and a plethora of causal ingredients point to a paradigm of why man exists on this earth, some men still see with the veil of illusion crystallized between their retinas and the mind's eye of intuitional knowledge...the sixth sense. Consciousness resides at levels prefixed at the "un," the "sub," and shoots to a high of super-consciousness. Now, psycho-cognitive and other scientific research reinforces old myths into truths that higher understanding only amplifies as mankind sheds its "selfdom" for altruistic beliefs, thereby ushering in a realm of higher consciousness.
How deeply does mankind truly see? Can we match mind to wisdom and perceive that there are greater unknowns (than the Zebra's stripes) just floating around us waiting to be discovered? Or, does the cause of the "ENIGMNI" (the absolute ultimate unknowable) exert its power over mankind's quest to push forever the envelope of reality beyond our own comprehension? Perhaps the evolution of alternative means of thought enabling us to see and understand the makings of the Universe will require exploration of creative pathways that go around old empiric paradigms...systems of doing science that have become the tacit infrastructure (a way of expressing unspeakable, yet concrete concepts of life). Have we become victims of our own complex ignorance and are now unable to participate in the "brainstorm" required for tomorrow’s world? Philosophy and Science must again merge in the search for truth...through a rededication to creativity...the ongoing act.
As to the secret of the Zebra -- could mankind have missed the "point" of the ancient Unicorn in that its symbolic message to us was not the one-horned horse, but the one with the gift of Fractal Geometry on its coat to "point" (guide) our way from the beginnings of our time to the grand leaps required of our complex future. Orientation for a new viewpoint may be dawning. Considering where we are in human development... it is something to think about.
QUOTE(Yelekiah @ Dec 1 2005, 02:04 PM) [snapback]956807[/snapback]
Then you must not think too much of yourself.
I think we all already got to that conclusion, let's just ignore this thread, cause it is ridiculous, as it is some posts of the person who made it (in the same thread that is, I don't know about the rest, and sincerely, I don't care).
EDITED: of course you can think what you want, you are free to do so, or so you think.
QUOTE(Orion von Koch @ Feb 17 2006, 08:28 PM) [snapback]1066146[/snapback]
That would be your fun. I am still not finding the edit button on this site and it once was here.
I am sorry for the double post, but I have to make everybody notice, that this post that I am quoting was edited
.What a stupid lier we have here
, really stupid, I think everybody will agree with me on that statement.XD
QUOTE(aquatus1 @ Feb 16 2006, 07:28 AM) [snapback]1063962[/snapback]
Taustin, if you have any specific questions concerning evolution, I invite you to ask them at the following thread (I do not wish to bog down Orion's thread with evolutionary lessons):
Proof of Evolution
The purpose of the thread is not so much for debate, but rather for those who are truly curious about any particular process of evolution that they would like to learn more about.
Aquatus, I do not have specific questions concerning evolution. My question was more in regard to your thought processes. I have seen your responses and feel you are an intelligent being so I was curious. I have read several textbooks containing the Theory of Evolution. It is not satifying to me in the least regarding Creation. Also, it IS a Theory. If it was not then it would not be called the "Theory of Evolution". It would be taught as factual rather than a Theory. The fact is that Darwin's theory is missing pieces and fairly significant pieces at that. It is not considered a historical fact so pretending it to be so will not make it so.
I think we will learn alot in our current lifetimes that will reveal the truth about Evolution so I think I may as well just bide my time with that rather than try to debate it out, which is not what the site you directed me is for (I understand). I feel I have read enough about it to determine how I feel about it. Evolution is real, just not in the way everyone has been led to believe. I am much more interested in Universal information. Where does Mind exist? Who is running this crazy show en total? At what point in Evolution was the Mind infused for modern man? How did that even happen? I know I am not the sum of this body. I just know. I do not feel there is any satisfactory answer for that question for me in any textbook or article on the Theory of Evolution. I feel I am getting close to the answers so I am pretty good. Thank you though for your helpful response. I do appreciate that.
QUOTE(aquatus1 @ Feb 16 2006, 09:27 AM) [snapback]1064072[/snapback]
And, of course, I also try and offer something a little more substantial than simply my word on a subject to back up any claims I might make.
I appreciate that but I have a few questions? Do you think we have discovered everything we (collective humanity) need to know about who we are and where we came from? Do you think we already have all the facts about the beginning of Mankind and Nature and how it was created or "began"? Is that how you truly feel? There are no messages in anything from anyone other than Mankind? We are the only ones communicating with messages of importance and significance? There is no one running the show in the entire Universe, just us? Who is Us? How do you account for planets and parts of the Universe unknown? If We did not do it, who did? Timelessness......always was......always have been and always will be.....I do see you as an articulate intelligent person but am curious your thought processes. I probably should have gone offline for this. I will in any of my future replies...sorry folks. Thanks Aquatus, curious.
QUOTE(taustin @ Feb 18 2006, 05:44 AM) [snapback]1066825[/snapback]
Also, it IS a Theory. If it was not then it would not be called the "Theory of Evolution". It would be taught as factual rather than a Theory.
Incorrect. Theories do not produce facts. Theories are derived from facts. Theories are formal explanations for specific phenomena, explantions which have met all five pre-requisites of scientific methodology, which has been peer reviewed, which has been published in a scientific journal for data dissemination, and which met all validity tests for formal logic. In other words, it is a Scientific Theory, which is something quite different from simply 'a' theory, which generally applies to idle thoughts people come up with around the watercooler.
No theory will ever be taught as fact. To do so would violate one of the pre-requisites of scientific methodology.
QUOTE
The fact is that Darwin's theory is missing pieces and fairly significant pieces at that. It is not considered a historical fact so pretending it to be so will not make it so.
Actually, Yes, Darwin's theory was incorrect in a few instances, and was missing a few points that have since been added. Also, the entire idea of Darwinian evolution was replaced with Neo-Darwinism a few decades ago, to bring it up to date. Darwin's theory, nor, for that matter, any biological theory, would be considered a historical fact. History is the realm of anthropology, which is more investigation than research.
QUOTE
I feel I have read enough about it to determine how I feel about it.
To be perfectly frank, it really sounds like you have only heard one side of the matter, and it wasn't the side of the evolutionists. You are, of course, free to believe anything you wish, however it would behoove you to at the very least understand both sides of an argument prior to choosing which side to follow. From what I have heard from you, your understanding of science in general, and evolution in particular, seems to be founded on what anti-evolutionists claim evolutionists claim, rather than what scientists themselves claim.
QUOTE(taustin @ Feb 18 2006, 05:59 AM) [snapback]1066843[/snapback]
I appreciate that but I have a few questions? Do you think we have discovered everything we (collective humanity) need to know about who we are and where we came from? Do you think we already have all the facts about the beginning of Mankind and Nature and how it was created or "began"? Is that how you truly feel?
Holy crow! We are nowhere near knowing everything we need to know, or even most of what we can possible know, from the natural world around us! No, absolute answers are not at all available; in fact, they are so far from our ability to deduce that one of the very prerequisites of scientific methodology is designed for the specific purpose of avoiding absolute claims. We have only barely begun to scratch surface concerning our origins as a species, let alone our origins within the universe itself.
QUOTE
There are no messages in anything from anyone other than Mankind? We are the only ones communicating with messages of importance and significance? There is no one running the show in the entire Universe, just us? Who is Us? How do you account for planets and parts of the Universe unknown? If We did not do it, who did?
Why would someone have to do it? Why would someone need to be running the show? Perhaps there is a grand controller somewhere, perhaps there isn't. Personally, I am rather ambivalent on the subject, and I will wait until someone can present some objective evidence on the subject before coming to a conclusion. Otherwise, it is merely an exercise in philosophy, a subject for which I have little use for.
QUOTE
Timelessness......always was......always have been and always will be.....I do see you as an articulate intelligent person but am curious your thought processes. I probably should have gone offline for this. I will in any of my future replies...sorry folks. Thanks Aquatus, curious.
Yes, It wouldn't be polite to Orion to derail his thread with my thoughts on the matter. I'm not much for conversing over P.M.s, but feel free to post in other threads not quite as specific as this one.
Alvin Toffler once was the opinion leader who spread the word that our world was spinning beyond the average Joe's and Jill's abilities to keep up with the "NOW" of life. In his best seller - POWERSHIFT, Toffler pointed to the chaos or speed factors that were pushing humanity’s lives beyond its ability to cope with rampaging change.
The power of POWERSHIFT was my point- of-departure to becoming in tune with the parameters of our future. It amplified my mind to learn on the fly. Because so many of us are still viewing life from below ground level (pop culture) as it were, we are unable to jump on to this merry-go-round phenomenon that He (Toffler) said was our birthright. Toffler showed that "survival of the fastest" would be the watchword in the coming years...or minutes. But, the mind had to become more powerful in order to keep up. Many advocates of mega-educational persuasion believed that Toffler's book should have been the point-of-departure (POD) for future teaching/learning philosophy that we need to address today.
Survival in tomorrow's world will not only depend on being super fast but super smart, and that is why learning must begin and end at the edge of reality. Most of our teachers are teaching yesterday's curriculum and most of our student-body are learning outdated material if they are learning at all. Most "new" textbooks are already five years behind the real world. The proof is in our present national being. What America is today reflects in what we eat...and what we eat is built upon what we earn...and what we earn is built upon what we know...and what we know is equal to what we are taught...and what we are taught is obsolete because speed factors have been inserted into our reality...thus hyper-reality or chaos is impregnating our very future. Our rigid system of education is in the learner's way. We must jump to a higher understanding of "change."
It has been postulated that "change is the only constant in the Universe." Change is a dynamic moving process that embodies a dimensional reality, which we experience as life. The leading edge of focused reality is what we recognize as the "now-instant" -- a voyage into the future. What passes by the "now-instant" becomes a past that geometrically exerts diminishing influence on things to come. However, some of our past actions seem to explode forward at faster than light-speed to await our eventual arrival whereupon, these actions give birth to a plethora of perturbances or waves of actions that push a system or environment into a new realm. One, the old system would not, and in most cases could not recognize, because of the addition of so many complexities. Some would call this chaos, others would say it is the world into which we are headed. Again, others would say that chaos is but unperceived unity, indicating that it is our lack of amplified perception that keeps us from seeing the reality of a world that has gone turbo. Since mankind must continue on a positive path, we must begin to prepare now for a future full of perturbances and awe --we must bring to education the new paradigms of our best minds.
In 1977, the Belgian physical chemist, Ilya Prigogine won the Nobel prize for his theory of dissipative structures --- a relevant theory to everyday life which will impact profoundly our understandings of change in psychology, learning, health, sociology, politics, economics and chaos --- in other words, what education is all about. the University of Texas thought so much of his work that the establishment of the Ilya Prigogine Center for Statistical Mechanics and Thermodynamics was necessary for the continuation of this great work in "non-linear dynamics" (chaos) or extensions of "open systems." Open systems are structures in nature where energy or motion are consumed and new energy is returned to the environment. Nature and humanity are open systems and therefore are subject to the implications of Prigogine's systems for under-standing and forecasting the conditions and trends of humanities' future mix.
The point for inclusion of leading-edge thinkers in today's educational brain-storming is to show the need for contemporaneous thinking toward new ideas such as an automated/technological Communications Curriculum (a course-ware delivery system). If we can grasp their concepts, such as the implications of "dissipative structures" in our society, where whirling trends of human energies form new structures and relationships that produce fluctuations which either dampens potential crises or launches us into a higher order of complexity; then, we will be well on our way to understanding what will be expected of our schools and ourselves in the 21st century. Our thinking must be informational and instantaneous..."NOW."
Information, some say that is all that humanity is...a complexity of being that is held together via differing levels of communications within systems, a genetic code seeking manifestation within its own matrix of compatible matter or energy. Robert J. Sternberg, Professor (Psychology) at Yale University has gone beyond pure information, toward a tri-archaic theory of the intellectual mind that states: "intelligence inheres in both the individual and the environments that the individual inhabits." His theory of intelligence is a theory of individuals and their relations to their internal worlds, their external worlds and their experiences as mediators of the individual's internal and external worlds. His broad concept of mental awareness and its loci may account for the 10-25% variance in real-life performance suggested by psychometrics. "Ultimately," Sternberg says, "my research revealed that conventional intelligence tests tell us next to nothing about insight or creativity; nor do they tell us anything about a person's practical intelligence --- common sense." Sternberg's book, Beyond I.Q. (1985) won the outstanding book award in 1987 presented by the American Educational Research Association. Few educators have read it.
Have we gone in the wrong direction with our current educational programs? No, we haven't gone to the other side and we haven't gone far enough. The other side of the mental spectrum seems to reside in the right hemisphere of our brain, where researchers such as Michael Gazzania, a Professor of Psychology at Cornell, has found the right brain communicates differently than the left (language centered) brain. He sees the "self" as made up of modules of emotions and left oriented language centers. Others have posited a right dominated brain as creative, emotional, intuitive, and responsive --- one that communicates in a gestalt, symbolic manner. Conversely, the left brain is pragmatic, linear, logical and communicates in language and mathematics. Most of America's educational systems are built upon the lockstep of linear process --- left brain (Field Independent) dominated learning.
David Bohm, who has worked alongside Oppenheimer and Einstein, has posited that substance and movement or energy emerges from the generative order --- a holomovement that works through the electromagnetic spectrum's broadcast. He sees the above as a kind of holographic medium that we perceive and receive with our scanning brains. We coalesce this sensual information (mental mapping) into basically two forms of understanding. One manifest through reward and punishment learning, and the other through creative processes.
Bohm's research has indicated that education built upon reward and punishment techniques (behavior modification and positive reinforcement) if used exclusively, introduces rigidity and a tendency toward false play in an individual or a society. He writes, "the continuation of this approach eventually leads the person to seek pleasing words of praise from others, even if they are not true, and to collude with others in exchanging flattering or comforting remarks that lead to mutualism (mutual admiration society). This, however, is achieved at the expense of self-deception because truths are ignored. When the self realizes this, its esteem and motivation gradually, sometimes abruptly... declines.
The above system is therefore an illusion lived. Creativity is the natural state of being it is what brought mankind and America to its greatness. Though we cannot test it, or package it, creativity must be part of a happy balance of discipline and innovation. Lest we forget, earth and life are in a dynamic state and cannot continue in a concrete rigid structure without dying.
Cognitive creativity could be the key to the future of an education system that is amplified by a Communication Curriculum. Such a system would offer the networking and medium for visual stimulus and extension (right brain processing) to augment a linguistic method already in our schools. It would also address the other half of our students who could be taught creatively through visual/experiential expansion, to work from a point of strength and self-actualization, toward the "middle" for a balance of knowledge. This is called the "vernier scale" (spectral) method of education ... a slide-scale with many points of information. The ancients stated "know thy self"...so to know one's self is to understand the differences each one of us has to leverage the world of appearances, for power and control over our environments. Each one of us has something a little different to offer. Some call this the holographic concept, built upon the model of Dennis Gabor's principles of holography (1947). He won a Nobel Prize for a process that may emulate the universe and the constructs of our minds. A hologram offers a 3-dimensional view of a whole object. If it is fragmented, each piece still produces its own unique image of the original whole object. The ancients had one other bromide of wisdom in the symbolic form of the "philosopher's stone." It was many faceted, composed of different views and dimensions of the continuum, just as the fragmented hologram. Each part was lens-like and offered a massive view on life...just like that wonderful lens we call the mind, which gives us our perceptions on being.
The point of all the above is that we must educate the inclinations of the total person. In order to accomplish this, we must interface with their individual differences through a flexible method...communications technology and a creative (field sensitive) philosophy. Collectively, this amplified communications will then allow us to: (1) teach symbolically or visually to those who have language problems (right brain dominants); (2) teach through simulation of process; (3) teach via special effects and presentation graphics (science and math symbols representation); (4) teach through interactive/integrated menu driven thresholds (hypertext and hyperworld concepts); (5) teach through expressive or soft-entry methodology; (6) teach through heightened visual excitement and entertaining programming (edutainment); (7) teach via transpersonal psychology ; (8) teach via individually developed student presentationals with multimedia tools; (9) teach via access to current data vendors and networks; (10) teach via access to educational bulletin boards; (11) teach through outside research provisions allowing students to go to the world to seek answers; (12) teach through increased business interfaces and agreements; (13) teach through home/community video store augmentation to homework; (14) teach via real-life or life-like experiences; (15) teach via showmanship, marketing, and increased dialogue establishment; (16) teach through simulation of values, social mores, and respect (programmed examples); (17) teach through symbols testing or field sensitive testing with gestalt thresholds; If we can begin to reach out with this new powerful technology, then we will address the totality that tunnel-vision (Field Independent ?),has so far caused us to miss.
Forecasting the nuances and perturbances within socioeconomic earth systems will allow us to prepare for and predict the differentials of a new order, one that will require us to change in attempts to cope with the saturations, compressions, and failures of now closed systems or old methods. The ripples set off by increasing dropout rates, lack of preparedness in students, and a general complacency now associated with education, create relationships and realignments that will stress our society causing waves of perturbances that could punctuate the balance of a rigid status quo. Therefore, we must begin to install systems that will allow learning amplifications for our society, yet work within the modulation of surging waves of change. Communication technology and a "NOW" philosophy will serve us as a utility system, to control our educational destinies in tomorrow's hyper-reality.
One must wonder at the power of this symbolic point in human development. What impact does it represent to our understanding of what we really are? Few can see this at present, due to ancient minds still in control. It is time to think beyond.
The power of POWERSHIFT was my point- of-departure to becoming in tune with the parameters of our future. It amplified my mind to learn on the fly. Because so many of us are still viewing life from below ground level (pop culture) as it were, we are unable to jump on to this merry-go-round phenomenon that He (Toffler) said was our birthright. Toffler showed that "survival of the fastest" would be the watchword in the coming years...or minutes. But, the mind had to become more powerful in order to keep up. Many advocates of mega-educational persuasion believed that Toffler's book should have been the point-of-departure (POD) for future teaching/learning philosophy that we need to address today.
Survival in tomorrow's world will not only depend on being super fast but super smart, and that is why learning must begin and end at the edge of reality. Most of our teachers are teaching yesterday's curriculum and most of our student-body are learning outdated material if they are learning at all. Most "new" textbooks are already five years behind the real world. The proof is in our present national being. What America is today reflects in what we eat...and what we eat is built upon what we earn...and what we earn is built upon what we know...and what we know is equal to what we are taught...and what we are taught is obsolete because speed factors have been inserted into our reality...thus hyper-reality or chaos is impregnating our very future. Our rigid system of education is in the learner's way. We must jump to a higher understanding of "change."
It has been postulated that "change is the only constant in the Universe." Change is a dynamic moving process that embodies a dimensional reality, which we experience as life. The leading edge of focused reality is what we recognize as the "now-instant" -- a voyage into the future. What passes by the "now-instant" becomes a past that geometrically exerts diminishing influence on things to come. However, some of our past actions seem to explode forward at faster than light-speed to await our eventual arrival whereupon, these actions give birth to a plethora of perturbances or waves of actions that push a system or environment into a new realm. One, the old system would not, and in most cases could not recognize, because of the addition of so many complexities. Some would call this chaos, others would say it is the world into which we are headed. Again, others would say that chaos is but unperceived unity, indicating that it is our lack of amplified perception that keeps us from seeing the reality of a world that has gone turbo. Since mankind must continue on a positive path, we must begin to prepare now for a future full of perturbances and awe --we must bring to education the new paradigms of our best minds.
In 1977, the Belgian physical chemist, Ilya Prigogine won the Nobel prize for his theory of dissipative structures --- a relevant theory to everyday life which will impact profoundly our understandings of change in psychology, learning, health, sociology, politics, economics and chaos --- in other words, what education is all about. the University of Texas thought so much of his work that the establishment of the Ilya Prigogine Center for Statistical Mechanics and Thermodynamics was necessary for the continuation of this great work in "non-linear dynamics" (chaos) or extensions of "open systems." Open systems are structures in nature where energy or motion are consumed and new energy is returned to the environment. Nature and humanity are open systems and therefore are subject to the implications of Prigogine's systems for under-standing and forecasting the conditions and trends of humanities' future mix.
The point for inclusion of leading-edge thinkers in today's educational brain-storming is to show the need for contemporaneous thinking toward new ideas such as an automated/technological Communications Curriculum (a course-ware delivery system). If we can grasp their concepts, such as the implications of "dissipative structures" in our society, where whirling trends of human energies form new structures and relationships that produce fluctuations which either dampens potential crises or launches us into a higher order of complexity; then, we will be well on our way to understanding what will be expected of our schools and ourselves in the 21st century. Our thinking must be informational and instantaneous..."NOW."
Information, some say that is all that humanity is...a complexity of being that is held together via differing levels of communications within systems, a genetic code seeking manifestation within its own matrix of compatible matter or energy. Robert J. Sternberg, Professor (Psychology) at Yale University has gone beyond pure information, toward a tri-archaic theory of the intellectual mind that states: "intelligence inheres in both the individual and the environments that the individual inhabits." His theory of intelligence is a theory of individuals and their relations to their internal worlds, their external worlds and their experiences as mediators of the individual's internal and external worlds. His broad concept of mental awareness and its loci may account for the 10-25% variance in real-life performance suggested by psychometrics. "Ultimately," Sternberg says, "my research revealed that conventional intelligence tests tell us next to nothing about insight or creativity; nor do they tell us anything about a person's practical intelligence --- common sense." Sternberg's book, Beyond I.Q. (1985) won the outstanding book award in 1987 presented by the American Educational Research Association. Few educators have read it.
Have we gone in the wrong direction with our current educational programs? No, we haven't gone to the other side and we haven't gone far enough. The other side of the mental spectrum seems to reside in the right hemisphere of our brain, where researchers such as Michael Gazzania, a Professor of Psychology at Cornell, has found the right brain communicates differently than the left (language centered) brain. He sees the "self" as made up of modules of emotions and left oriented language centers. Others have posited a right dominated brain as creative, emotional, intuitive, and responsive --- one that communicates in a gestalt, symbolic manner. Conversely, the left brain is pragmatic, linear, logical and communicates in language and mathematics. Most of America's educational systems are built upon the lockstep of linear process --- left brain (Field Independent) dominated learning.
David Bohm, who has worked alongside Oppenheimer and Einstein, has posited that substance and movement or energy emerges from the generative order --- a holomovement that works through the electromagnetic spectrum's broadcast. He sees the above as a kind of holographic medium that we perceive and receive with our scanning brains. We coalesce this sensual information (mental mapping) into basically two forms of understanding. One manifest through reward and punishment learning, and the other through creative processes.
Bohm's research has indicated that education built upon reward and punishment techniques (behavior modification and positive reinforcement) if used exclusively, introduces rigidity and a tendency toward false play in an individual or a society. He writes, "the continuation of this approach eventually leads the person to seek pleasing words of praise from others, even if they are not true, and to collude with others in exchanging flattering or comforting remarks that lead to mutualism (mutual admiration society). This, however, is achieved at the expense of self-deception because truths are ignored. When the self realizes this, its esteem and motivation gradually, sometimes abruptly... declines.
The above system is therefore an illusion lived. Creativity is the natural state of being it is what brought mankind and America to its greatness. Though we cannot test it, or package it, creativity must be part of a happy balance of discipline and innovation. Lest we forget, earth and life are in a dynamic state and cannot continue in a concrete rigid structure without dying.
Cognitive creativity could be the key to the future of an education system that is amplified by a Communication Curriculum. Such a system would offer the networking and medium for visual stimulus and extension (right brain processing) to augment a linguistic method already in our schools. It would also address the other half of our students who could be taught creatively through visual/experiential expansion, to work from a point of strength and self-actualization, toward the "middle" for a balance of knowledge. This is called the "vernier scale" (spectral) method of education ... a slide-scale with many points of information. The ancients stated "know thy self"...so to know one's self is to understand the differences each one of us has to leverage the world of appearances, for power and control over our environments. Each one of us has something a little different to offer. Some call this the holographic concept, built upon the model of Dennis Gabor's principles of holography (1947). He won a Nobel Prize for a process that may emulate the universe and the constructs of our minds. A hologram offers a 3-dimensional view of a whole object. If it is fragmented, each piece still produces its own unique image of the original whole object. The ancients had one other bromide of wisdom in the symbolic form of the "philosopher's stone." It was many faceted, composed of different views and dimensions of the continuum, just as the fragmented hologram. Each part was lens-like and offered a massive view on life...just like that wonderful lens we call the mind, which gives us our perceptions on being.
The point of all the above is that we must educate the inclinations of the total person. In order to accomplish this, we must interface with their individual differences through a flexible method...communications technology and a creative (field sensitive) philosophy. Collectively, this amplified communications will then allow us to: (1) teach symbolically or visually to those who have language problems (right brain dominants); (2) teach through simulation of process; (3) teach via special effects and presentation graphics (science and math symbols representation); (4) teach through interactive/integrated menu driven thresholds (hypertext and hyperworld concepts); (5) teach through expressive or soft-entry methodology; (6) teach through heightened visual excitement and entertaining programming (edutainment); (7) teach via transpersonal psychology ; (8) teach via individually developed student presentationals with multimedia tools; (9) teach via access to current data vendors and networks; (10) teach via access to educational bulletin boards; (11) teach through outside research provisions allowing students to go to the world to seek answers; (12) teach through increased business interfaces and agreements; (13) teach through home/community video store augmentation to homework; (14) teach via real-life or life-like experiences; (15) teach via showmanship, marketing, and increased dialogue establishment; (16) teach through simulation of values, social mores, and respect (programmed examples); (17) teach through symbols testing or field sensitive testing with gestalt thresholds; If we can begin to reach out with this new powerful technology, then we will address the totality that tunnel-vision (Field Independent ?),has so far caused us to miss.
Forecasting the nuances and perturbances within socioeconomic earth systems will allow us to prepare for and predict the differentials of a new order, one that will require us to change in attempts to cope with the saturations, compressions, and failures of now closed systems or old methods. The ripples set off by increasing dropout rates, lack of preparedness in students, and a general complacency now associated with education, create relationships and realignments that will stress our society causing waves of perturbances that could punctuate the balance of a rigid status quo. Therefore, we must begin to install systems that will allow learning amplifications for our society, yet work within the modulation of surging waves of change. Communication technology and a "NOW" philosophy will serve us as a utility system, to control our educational destinies in tomorrow's hyper-reality.
One must wonder at the power of this symbolic point in human development. What impact does it represent to our understanding of what we really are? Few can see this at present, due to ancient minds still in control. It is time to think beyond.
[
I am not sure I said that and if I did I did not mean to say that.....
My apologies, a Scientific Theory.
QUOTE
quote name='aquatus1' date='Feb 18 2006, 04:43 PM' post='1067747']
Incorrect. Theories do not produce facts. Theories are derived from facts.
Incorrect. Theories do not produce facts. Theories are derived from facts.
I am not sure I said that and if I did I did not mean to say that.....
QUOTE
In other words, it is a Scientific Theory, which is something quite different from simply 'a' theory, which generally applies to idle thoughts people come up with around the watercooler.
My apologies, a Scientific Theory.
QUOTE
No theory will ever be taught as fact.
Agreed QUOTE
Also, the entire idea of Darwinian evolution was replaced with Neo-Darwinism a few decades ago, to bring it up to date.
Of course it was.....lol.QUOTE
To be perfectly frank, it really sounds like you have only heard one side of the matter, and it wasn't the side of the evolutionists.
My Father believes in Evolution actually and we have fairly charged conversations about it. QUOTE
From what I have heard from you, your understanding of science in general, and evolution in particular, seems to be founded on what anti-evolutionists claim evolutionists claim, rather than what scientists themselves claim.
I am for things and not really against or anti-anything. I also certainly do not claim to be a Scientist although my Father was a Marine Biologist.QUOTE
Holy crow! We are nowhere near knowing everything we need to know, or even most of what we can possible know, from the natural world around us!
Well I am glad we agree on that. lol Holy Crow....LOL - funny... QUOTE
We have only barely begun to scratch surface concerning our origins as a species, let alone our origins within the universe itself.
Agreed!!QUOTE
Why would someone have to do it? Why would someone need to be running the show?
I do not feel need is an action that has anything to do with it really....I would say that it simply Is. Someone does not "have to". That is linear thinking. QUOTE
Personally, I am rather ambivalent on the subject, and I will wait until someone can present some objective evidence on the subject before coming to a conclusion.
Fortunately, I do not share your ambivalence. I Trust in my Self.QUOTE
Otherwise, it is merely an exercise in philosophy, a subject for which I have little use for.
I think this is about where we part ways.....and that is ok. I'm good. Peace be with you.QUOTE
Sternberg's book, Beyond I.Q. (1985) won the outstanding book award in 1987 presented by the American Educational Research Association. Few educators have read it.
I am going to read this. not really soon but I am going to read this book. It sounds like something I might really like.QUOTE
Have we gone in the wrong direction with our current educational programs? No, we haven't gone to the other side and we haven't gone far enough. The other side of the mental spectrum seems to reside in the right hemisphere of our brain, where researchers such as Michael Gazzania, a Professor of Psychology at Cornell, has found the right brain communicates differently than the left (language centered) brain. He sees the "self" as made up of modules of emotions and left oriented language centers. Others have posited a right dominated brain as creative, emotional, intuitive, and responsive --- one that communicates in a gestalt, symbolic manner. Conversely, the left brain is pragmatic, linear, logical and communicates in language and mathematics. Most of America's educational systems are built upon the lockstep of linear process --- left brain (Field Independent) dominated learning.
I read this after I posted my response to Aquatus - it speaks of what I expressed and feel. Very Interesting.QUOTE
"the continuation of this approach eventually leads the person to seek pleasing words of praise from others, even if they are not true, and to collude with others in exchanging flattering or comforting remarks that lead to mutualism (mutual admiration society).
This would be like most of all the people I come into contact with.QUOTE
It would also address the other half of our students who could be taught creatively through visual/experiential expansion, to work from a point of strength and self-actualization, toward the "middle" for a balance of knowledge. This is called the "vernier scale" (spectral) method of education ... a slide-scale with many points of information.
I so wished I could have learned this way!QUOTE
The ancients stated "know thy self"...so to know one's self is to understand the differences each one of us has to leverage the world of appearances, for power and control over our environments. Each one of us has something a little different to offer. Some call this the holographic concept, built upon the model of Dennis Gabor's principles of holography (1947). He won a Nobel Prize for a process that may emulate the universe and the constructs of our minds. A hologram offers a 3-dimensional view of a whole object. If it is fragmented, each piece still produces its own unique image of the original whole object. The ancients had one other bromide of wisdom in the symbolic form of the "philosopher's stone." It was many faceted, composed of different views and dimensions of the continuum, just as the fragmented hologram. Each part was lens-like and offered a massive view on life...just like that wonderful lens we call the mind, which gives us our perceptions on being.
Excellent paragraph.QUOTE
The point of all the above is that we must educate the inclinations of the total person.
Yes!QUOTE
In order to accomplish this, we must interface with their individual differences through a flexible method...communications technology and a creative (field sensitive) philosophy. Collectively, this amplified communications will then allow us to: (1) teach symbolically or visually to those who have language problems (right brain dominants); (2) teach through simulation of process; (3) teach via special effects and presentation graphics (science and math symbols representation); (4) teach through interactive/integrated menu driven thresholds (hypertext and hyperworld concepts); (5) teach through expressive or soft-entry methodology; (6) teach through heightened visual excitement and entertaining programming (edutainment); (7) teach via transpersonal psychology ; (8) teach via individually developed student presentationals with multimedia tools; (9) teach via access to current data vendors and networks; (10) teach via access to educational bulletin boards; (11) teach through outside research provisions allowing students to go to the world to seek answers; (12) teach through increased business interfaces and agreements; (13) teach through home/community video store augmentation to homework; (14) teach via real-life or life-like experiences; (15) teach via showmanship, marketing, and increased dialogue establishment; (16) teach through simulation of values, social mores, and respect (programmed examples); (17) teach through symbols testing or field sensitive testing with gestalt thresholds; If we can begin to reach out with this new powerful technology, then we will address the totality that tunnel-vision (Field Independent ?),has so far caused us to miss.
Really excellent ideas Orion. I am thinking I may want to put together a business plan. Are these yours?QUOTE
One must wonder at the power of this symbolic point in human development.
I really really do.QUOTE
What impact does it represent to our understanding of what we really are?
I really just don't know. I think quite an amazing impact. I think we really live in an amazing time right now. Tumultuous, yes, amazing and wonderful, yes. I can't wait to see what happens next.QUOTE(aquatus1 @ Feb 18 2006, 10:43 PM) [snapback]1067747[/snapback]
Incorrect. Theories do not produce facts. Theories are derived from facts. Theories are formal explanations for specific phenomena, explantions which have met all five pre-requisites of scientific methodology, which has been peer reviewed, which has been published in a scientific journal for data dissemination, and which met all validity tests for formal logic. In other words, it is a Scientific Theory, which is something quite different from simply 'a' theory, which generally applies to idle thoughts people come up with around the watercooler.
No theory will ever be taught as fact. To do so would violate one of the pre-requisites of scientific methodology.
Actually, Yes, Darwin's theory was incorrect in a few instances, and was missing a few points that have since been added. Also, the entire idea of Darwinian evolution was replaced with Neo-Darwinism a few decades ago, to bring it up to date. Darwin's theory, nor, for that matter, any biological theory, would be considered a historical fact. History is the realm of anthropology, which is more investigation than research.
To be perfectly frank, it really sounds like you have only heard one side of the matter, and it wasn't the side of the evolutionists. You are, of course, free to believe anything you wish, however it would behoove you to at the very least understand both sides of an argument prior to choosing which side to follow. From what I have heard from you, your understanding of science in general, and evolution in particular, seems to be founded on what anti-evolutionists claim evolutionists claim, rather than what scientists themselves claim.
Holy crow! We are nowhere near knowing everything we need to know, or even most of what we can possible know, from the natural world around us! No, absolute answers are not at all available; in fact, they are so far from our ability to deduce that one of the very prerequisites of scientific methodology is designed for the specific purpose of avoiding absolute claims. We have only barely begun to scratch surface concerning our origins as a species, let alone our origins within the universe itself.
Why would someone have to do it? Why would someone need to be running the show? Perhaps there is a grand controller somewhere, perhaps there isn't. Personally, I am rather ambivalent on the subject, and I will wait until someone can present some objective evidence on the subject before coming to a conclusion. Otherwise, it is merely an exercise in philosophy, a subject for which I have little use for.
Yes, It wouldn't be polite to Orion to derail his thread with my thoughts on the matter. I'm not much for conversing over P.M.s, but feel free to post in other threads not quite as specific as this one.
The ideas of evolution, taken as whole, is a THEORY, wich is why it's the THEORY OF EVOLUTION. Evolution is not 99 or even 98% true. However, there is truth in it. It's adaption that I believe in the most when it comes to evolution. As for one species becoming another, and all things alive even plants and bugs coming from one single thing, show me a video tape of this and you got me! Not fossils. If you find 2 fossils from different times, one is almost a dog, a younger one closer to a dog, then another one even younger a dog, you just connect the dots and say, this first fossil later became a dog! But no one knows actualy what happend long ago.
I'm just rambbling.
I must admit though, many people now days are weak spiritualy. It's because of science neglecting to study the spirit. Victor Zammit is a great read so far. Scientists back in the day use to actualy investigate and test these types of things. Everyone is so occupied with the physical world they have no time for anything else.
I do.
We are a virtual broadcast from Timelessness and our minds will not let us contemplate upon the complexity of such a notion.
Timelessness is the reality of this existence with Time being the dream or illusion. Eternity is the all encompassing essence of the Totality (One with no second). It is the generative order or implicate unity. Mentality is multi-purposed, multifaceted, and multidimensional. In thought finality, Mind is the Totality. Mind rides the Light but is not reliant upon it. Light is capable of creating the universe in illusion as a virtual reality, what some call the moire arena. God is Mind...and Mind issues forth in God’s motion — The Enigmni. Mind moves from nothing toward everything and back. Mind is the experience of existence whereby all creativity is found in a catalytic state of reinvention. It is a constancy of change. There is nothing faster than Mind, then comes Light. Because Mind is present with Light they appear as One...they are two, but light is the expression of the Mind — the broadcast. One is God the other is His Means — the Holy Spirit...the mover — Enigmni.
The First Logos or Creation is the Son, the Word catalyzes ideas into existence in sequence. The Word is REASON. Mind is first cause with no last. Last is an illusion of Time which moves as a linear aspect generated in Timelessness. Linearity can be accompanied by dimensionality. Increased dimensionality adds complexity and solidity to Time for those who ride the Light. The more complex, and the more coherent, the hotter is the form. Mind is not affected by any of its creations, but its creations are affected by each preceding creation that manifests in evolutional sequence. Feedback created naturally by Mind and Light is essential to coherent knowing of each preparatory creation. Congruence, Empathy, or Love and Knowing is amplified by each structural dimension created. 137 is the number of Creation.
Beings or Mind segments that are attracted by each amplifying and complex structural level will localize in sequential fashion. From the smallest atomic structure to the most complex. Thus is the spiral of creation, the climb to amplified bemanship. Mind is uniformly everywhere, everything, and Eternal. Mind is the atmosphere of be-ness. Humanity is represented by a multitude of structural levels animated by total mentality within holo-faceted soulular bodies. Light creates the illusion of body and its programs of DNA supply the variety. Mind selects the product based on cause and consequence. Mind is God. Man is a part of God. God is the Whole.
Mind may seek itself in exponential feedback waves that are everywhere at once yet holographically focused by a reflection mechanism on the physical side called a Brain (sequential computerized device). Such a virtual organ can and does make localizations think they are individuals capable of god-like creation. It is an illusion that must be learned due to sequential limitations. Individuals created in localizations use brains as a secondary focusing agent to create a holographic virtual domain wherein personality rises. Personalities create dimensional illusions that flux and must be reinforced by recognition or observation from others. These brains coalesce mind into a sense field capable of creating solid reality. This virtual reality is hard copy to a conscious mind aided by a lens of being. The lens collects data for evaluation by the All.
The generative order is symbolized by a being (person) seated in outline form. It is fractalian in nature and existence is created within the relation to a mathematical (geometric) interface inherent with this symbol. Inside the symbol is the void-potential, outside is the creation. Where the two meet is the implicate order or cursor of God’s Eye. The leading edge is where Time is on the FLY. Timelessness feeds the potential that smears out over created space awaiting localization of monadic mind.
This smear of potential is as the multifaceted or holographic plate (information float), all potential is inherent within its confines as feedback looping is progressing faster than the speed of Light. It is Mind. This combination allows Light to seem to have “Prior Knowledge,” to a singular localization.
Timelessness is the reality of this existence with Time being the dream or illusion. Eternity is the all encompassing essence of the Totality (One with no second). It is the generative order or implicate unity. Mentality is multi-purposed, multifaceted, and multidimensional. In thought finality, Mind is the Totality. Mind rides the Light but is not reliant upon it. Light is capable of creating the universe in illusion as a virtual reality, what some call the moire arena. God is Mind...and Mind issues forth in God’s motion — The Enigmni. Mind moves from nothing toward everything and back. Mind is the experience of existence whereby all creativity is found in a catalytic state of reinvention. It is a constancy of change. There is nothing faster than Mind, then comes Light. Because Mind is present with Light they appear as One...they are two, but light is the expression of the Mind — the broadcast. One is God the other is His Means — the Holy Spirit...the mover — Enigmni.
The First Logos or Creation is the Son, the Word catalyzes ideas into existence in sequence. The Word is REASON. Mind is first cause with no last. Last is an illusion of Time which moves as a linear aspect generated in Timelessness. Linearity can be accompanied by dimensionality. Increased dimensionality adds complexity and solidity to Time for those who ride the Light. The more complex, and the more coherent, the hotter is the form. Mind is not affected by any of its creations, but its creations are affected by each preceding creation that manifests in evolutional sequence. Feedback created naturally by Mind and Light is essential to coherent knowing of each preparatory creation. Congruence, Empathy, or Love and Knowing is amplified by each structural dimension created. 137 is the number of Creation.
Beings or Mind segments that are attracted by each amplifying and complex structural level will localize in sequential fashion. From the smallest atomic structure to the most complex. Thus is the spiral of creation, the climb to amplified bemanship. Mind is uniformly everywhere, everything, and Eternal. Mind is the atmosphere of be-ness. Humanity is represented by a multitude of structural levels animated by total mentality within holo-faceted soulular bodies. Light creates the illusion of body and its programs of DNA supply the variety. Mind selects the product based on cause and consequence. Mind is God. Man is a part of God. God is the Whole.
Mind may seek itself in exponential feedback waves that are everywhere at once yet holographically focused by a reflection mechanism on the physical side called a Brain (sequential computerized device). Such a virtual organ can and does make localizations think they are individuals capable of god-like creation. It is an illusion that must be learned due to sequential limitations. Individuals created in localizations use brains as a secondary focusing agent to create a holographic virtual domain wherein personality rises. Personalities create dimensional illusions that flux and must be reinforced by recognition or observation from others. These brains coalesce mind into a sense field capable of creating solid reality. This virtual reality is hard copy to a conscious mind aided by a lens of being. The lens collects data for evaluation by the All.
The generative order is symbolized by a being (person) seated in outline form. It is fractalian in nature and existence is created within the relation to a mathematical (geometric) interface inherent with this symbol. Inside the symbol is the void-potential, outside is the creation. Where the two meet is the implicate order or cursor of God’s Eye. The leading edge is where Time is on the FLY. Timelessness feeds the potential that smears out over created space awaiting localization of monadic mind.
This smear of potential is as the multifaceted or holographic plate (information float), all potential is inherent within its confines as feedback looping is progressing faster than the speed of Light. It is Mind. This combination allows Light to seem to have “Prior Knowledge,” to a singular localization.
QUOTE(Orion von Koch @ Feb 22 2006, 08:59 AM) [snapback]1073382[/snapback]
We are a virtual broadcast from Timelessness and our minds will not let us contemplate upon the complexity of such a notion.
Seriously, all this is about is throwing out big, fifty-cent words and hoping to batter everyone with convoluted text until they give up/pass out. Your theories are the wildest tripe I have ever been exposed to.
Look here, kiddies, Orion's posts are "theories". Crackpot ones, but theories nonetheless...the theory of evolution is (as stated previously) Scientific theory. Yes, it has been updated, but so has religion. Someone earlier said "do you think we know all there is to know about mankind and nature?"...precisely why evolution gets an update...more facts become available. Read: scientific method. All things in science are labelled 'theory' because to label something 'law' would be sloppy. New facts always arise to challenge scientific laws (as we have seen with Newton's Laws).
At least scientists say "Okay, looks like we were off-base on this one. Let's re-test" when something comes along to throw doubt on their 'theories'. They don't stubbornly hold onto it like a mid-life crisis suburbanite in his forties holds on to his high school varsity jacket.
Just a quick joke on Zebras.. (of course the actual 100% of scientific fact here)
.. Two male Zebras get talking one day by the river, and the first one asks an odd question, 'Hey mate, are we black with white stripes, or white with black stripes..? so the second zebra says, 'yo brother, yo is what yo is..'
.. Two male Zebras get talking one day by the river, and the first one asks an odd question, 'Hey mate, are we black with white stripes, or white with black stripes..? so the second zebra says, 'yo brother, yo is what yo is..'
What about tigers, a turtles shell, pandas... are they all individually significant themselves....? Damn.
I see your still crazy Ron....
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