I must admit I have been guilty of this, sort of, if someone gives an answer that may be valid but not to the way I meant a question then I do try to clarify the original question.....So sorry 'bout that

Hyper indeed a child should be a child. The imagination the fun of the whole process of growing up.

A child who is premature will be delayed however many months or weeks then a full term child. LOL. I don't know how true it is. But my baby was 1 month early and she just was perfect. People feared that she hadn't walked yet. she was 13 months when she was walking. How is that delayed. Some are just super early.

Hyper how can you say that? I will pm you?

Keep typing...you're well worth reading...

stop that!

I wasn't directing my comments at anyone in particular. <--- these 2 lines are for bacca.

A difference of interpretation wasn't what I was talking about anyhow.

I'm talking about people who ask a question (Why is "A"?)
Then rejecting or ignoring the answer ( "A" is {long detailed explanation}) (No, wrong answer. why is "A"? ) until they drive off all opposition, or they come up with the answer they wanted to hear all along.

Arguing for the sake of arguing. And, if you do answer their question without an escape route for them, they change the parameter of the question.

Great perspectives all so full of wisdom, I love How Grow up is a compliment, I hadn't looked at it like that. I think modeling the attributes you want your child to copy, I'm big on independence wahtever is suitable for the child as they grow, My son wants to be a grown up he recognizes the limits of childhood, yet childhood is also a great time, i was the oldest so responsibility was a big theme for me , ( I also couldn't wait to be a grown up, teaching a kid I DON"T KNOW right away we don't have to have an answer for everything teach the child its the next question that leads to wisdomand the next and the next... i think modeling responsiblity is the greatest asset for a person, its empowering, I like amy's idea its a give and take I too feel as if i learn more than my kids, 101 shed a light to how enviorment molds, Hyper do you remember what you told me when i was gonna home school matt??? never let him lose the wonder of learning. ( similar to that you may remember the exact words ??? namaste Sheri

Yes the ideas were great.

JM that Taurus charm i was speaking of is definitly working you got the girls complimenting you today Huh Namaste sheri

Agreed. He is a very interesting man.

I knew that JM However I also have to admit that I am just as guilty of these things that annoy me as anyone else. I have learned (especially recently) that the power of positive reinforcement is so much more powerful then that of trying to argue. It's like telling my six year old that he needs to practice reading more because he doesn't know all the words as apposed to telling him good job for the words he does know. It seems to me that around here we criticize and nit pick about things instead of saying good point but I personally disagree because, or how about wow that was a well thought out response and well written even though I disagree, and here is why.......Maybe it's the season that's getting me to be so soft But for those of you who have been here for a while you know it gets so tiring with nothing but point counter point etc. with no end in site and then in between personal attacks about your character or your ability to do something and a kind word never added in........

Bacca great point Bravo I would get no where with my kids if i didn't positively reinforce, I do think many throwning a bone of a compliment would mean alot to those who are trying to grow < i don't want to get sappy but sometimes the gift of self esteem is the greatest gift we can give Namaste Sheri

I agree 100% Sheri and that is my point. But I think it goes for everyone....you know that everyone you, me and everyone else on this little rock like to hear someone say something nice about them. They want to know that someone cares that they are here and I know I don't do it enough, at least on here it doesn't take much more then a comment to make someone feel special and appreciated. Don't you think?

Bacca, Sherri, I completely agree!

Not only that, but look what we all have accomplished! I know I have been thoroughly enjoying this thread, I hope others have as well, and I have learned more off of this thread than I have in a long time because we all respected one another and listened!


Three cheers to Bacca for starting the thread!!!!

I agree Amy, this is a refreshing change of pace.

Almost, serene in fact. And I'm not being a wise guy when I say that.

(plus, It sounds like I'm getting groupies!!)
boo-yah!

JM do we get signed photo's and a fan club pack? or do we just get to follow you around and drool all the time?

whichever you prefer. I'm good like that


Now you'd better stop before I start to believe this....

I don't see why you wouldn't believe it!!! What reason would I or anyone else around here have to lie?

uh oh! 'Groupies' ...a rather insulting term to use at those who simply like to follow intelligent debate.

it was a joke Lauren.

I agree this has been awesome I hope it keeps up

I want to be your groupie when I grow up

And if it makes you smile at least once or twice it's worth it to me

Hmmm, I've seen it work both ways, and about 50/50 too. The non-Christians here argue and insult just as much as the Christians IMO.

The idea though isn't to point fingers but to try and live in peace and harmony, despite (or perhaps because of) our differences.

Regards, PA

Yes PA that is the point, that instead of judging and being so worried about who said what about whom and so on that you just take an honest heart felt post from someone and take it for what it is worth and not attack people...yes it goes both ways I don't think anyone is saying they are perfect and have never done it...I think at least here people are being nice and not doing it.......make sense?

what I find appalling is this weird breakdown into xians vs atheists. i get further convinced this is an xian website everyday. My ancestors were Jews, although both my parents were atheists (mom still here at 81). I was literally raised without religion. I remember seeing the tv show wagon train as a small child (yes I am 52). there were arabs on the trail, who wouldn't eat the pork and beans. My mother explained "Oh, there are cedrtain religions that don;t believe in eating pork." she didn't mentiion that the rest of the family, on both sides, were members of one of these religions. I was exposed to xianity in first grade. they had some werid study group, and a sixth grader showed me a pamphlet with colors. blue was heaven, red was the blood of you-know-who, black was your soul, white was the soul of a xian, and blue was heaven, and the world was ending soon.. I asked my babysitter, a wonderful xian lady named mrs.warren, many years ago deceased, i am sure. She told me, that there were many people that had predicted the world would end soon, and not to worry, and that I shouldn't listen to these people because I was a Jew. I had no idea what she meant, but I was very grateful. I found my interest was in greek, roman and Norse legends.
To this day i find the word "mythology" offensive. I found a jps edition of the "holy Scriptures" in a cabinet. My atheist father's response? so, now you are studying Jewish mythology?" purely out of revenge for that, I insisted on having a "barmitzvah", although I barely knew what that was. I read the "New Testament" as a teenager, and laughed my way through the whole thing. It was just a rewrite of Heracles! I could not make any connection with Judiasm at all. Later in life, when I began to study about the destruction of the Library of Alexandria, I found out it was the Xians, supervised by Emperor Theodosius that was behind it! And, coinkidinkally, right around the same time he convened the Council of constantinople, where his bishops had all the churches send in whatever they thought was the nt, burned them all, and sent out there own version. Not long after, St. Jerome began his "translation" into latin of the nt, later called the vulgate. Anyone not see a connection behind all these events? As an initiated occultist, I have studied most major religions (except islam-no interest), I realized that all religions teach the same thing. I will summarize in three words: Don't hurt anyone.

Don't kill.
Don't steal.
Honor your parents.
Don't commit suicide-because you are a person.
and so on."Don't hurt anyone." The rest is pure embellishment.Period.

The real "Deity" is so beyond human understanding, we make up little stories to explain it. Whatever you believe in is real, if your intention is pure. I am not a xian, and not a nonxian. I refuse to define my beliefs by their terms. I am an occultist, which is neither. I am not bound by your rules, nor am I an atheist. It took me almost six months to realise you guys use the terms "believer" to mean Christian, and nb=atheist. Guess what, I have a revelation for you: Xians do not own God! And no, I really do not care what the nt says about this, or almost anything else!"judge not," etc. is pure nt gobbledygook, intended to scare the pagan audience it was intended for. there are over 600 commandments in the Hebrew scriptures, but they are intended for Jews only, there being 7 for outsiders. Your Jesus (more properly Yeshu) stated repeatedly that the law never changed. Yes, I know, xians have an apology for this one, too. I've heard the bs all my life, if you only read the nt with an open mind, you would be an xian". I have a more open mind than anyone you will ever meet; I was raised with a pure tabula rasa, and it never fooled me. so, at least rename this forum xians versus others, i would say. stop hiding behind a lie, although that is standard xian technique.bacca, at least look to your source. the nt is not "the bible", and I can quote many parts of the hebrew scriptures to refute almost anything in it.xians, as a group, are the most judgemental people on earth. Any single one I have met in person. the ones on this forum are typical, I would almost say generic. I have to respect the theists and atheists here about a thousand times more, and I disagree with them about 90%. They quote science, and all the xians do, more or less, is quote scripture and spew their contempt and hatred for all who won't swallow their "message".

Great post.

Don't worry JM, I haven't been a groupie before, so I will be one of yours! hee hee hee *does groupie dance*.

Yes Gideon. I hate you and everything your atheist crap stands for

PA and this post was going so well, Sometimes we fear waht we don't understand.



Gid very good read, I'm still not sure what a xian is but thats okay. You sem to really enjoy your path tahs what I'd say namaste Sheri

Yes Bacca, it can get very frustrating at times when debating the ol' "theist vs. atheist" thing.

It is very easy to take an attack on your deeply rooted beliefs in a personal manner, regardless of what side your on.

Everybody, at one time or another, has taken a constructive critique to be a personal slam. That's just human nature. This is a very sensitive subject afterall. We're talking about a person's eternal fate on the chopping block here. So its only natural.

But to answer your question to NB's, yes, we get tired of being judged and labeled a sinner, heretic, who's going to Hell, etc., etc. But you get used to it after a while.

*meh* I was just trying to figure out why GM was making such broad and generalized statements about the whole of the Christian faith. Is not a generalization a form of judgement?

But I shall stop now, for fear of earning the wrath of all here

Regards, PA

oh btw, a Christian is someone who follows Christ (literally "Christ follower"). You cannot not follow Christ and be Christian - it's an oxy-moron.

But my point is not what you follow. I suppose I would fall into the NB's yet I have beliefs just not in that 'good book' or what not. Being a christian or a non-christian no matter which side you fall into those of us who don't choose to believe in the god of the bible are told we are bad people, parents etc. and that is so wrong that it does get me angry. Actually you can attack me all day long I don't personally care however there are some wonderful kind loving people on here (you know who you are ) that have been attacked as of late and it seems to bother and hurt this one person imparticular and that gets me angry. So I started looking more and what I see is exactly what we got with PA saying he hated something that was said. Well GM's post was wonderful easy to understand seemingly well thought out and honest so why do you have to slam him for his opinion with such a comment? I'm not picking on you PA it's just a question he didn't single you out with any personal attack yet you came at him as if he had, why? Can't you just accept that he doesn't believe like you and at least try to understand why? Maybe not maybe you need to hold onto your beliefs and condem anyone who doesn't follow your lead but I think it's mean and that those of you who do this really need to look more at yourselves and what causes you to do this rather then at the people you are so hateful to......

On the whole, I found GM's post quite informative. Semantics aside though, can you honestly say this is not a judgemental statement:



I respect the beliefs and opinions of others, except when those beliefs and opinions are directed at a generalized group as a whole. I know Gid's post wasn't directed at myself specifically, though I guess I would be classified under "the ones on this forum", who as Gid said are typical and generic, ie spewing hatred and contempt.

Would the same statement have been let go if I said Atheists as a whole were *insert generalization here*?

Just a thought.

Regards, PA

Edit: on your point about believers and non-believers, you will notice that my posts make the distinction. I never simply use NB's or what have you. I always say Christian/non-Christian. I would never presume to say a believer is only one who believes in Christ.

But of course, no one notices this, do they?

So he made a generalized statement that you took offense to? Is it true about you? if not then why get upset?

First I would like to jump on the JMPD bandwagon

Now I would like to address the OP. Everyone gets offended and frustrated at times, it's only typical human behavior. I found myself being upitty not to long ago. The thing I have noticed in here is that the religious mainly christians are the most arguementative. They usually come in and kick around a few judgements and then leave. The ones that stay are usually not as judgemental and have something to contribute. I have enjoyed amy's posts in this thread. She is the kind of person you don't mind trading ideas with. I didn't mean to exclude anyone elses good ideas I just wanted to commend her for being forthright.

Thank you Curiosity, I appreciate that.

I know what it is liked to be judged, I deal with it on a weekly basis and so does my oldest daughter because we know longer go to church. I am a Christian, but very frustrated with the structured church and our "man-made" God, so I threw my hands up and stopped going. God knows what is in my heart, I don't need the clickes at church to tell me anymore what is there.

Unfortunately, in my area, the church we were going to is very big and by being inactive, you are also subject to being alienated. Somehow, I do not think that was in God's game plan. I am also beginning to feel the Bible is interpreted in multiple tailored ways to suit each religions needs (I am feeling so guilty by saying this). I don't claim to know anymore who and what God is, I'm still searching. All I'm saying is it would be nice to have a "safe" place to go and learn from other's without worrying you are going to get slammed for your beliefs or the fact that maybe you do not share in other's religous beliefs. We are all in this together!

Amy,

Churches are like that. But I will say one thing. I go to Church for God...not the men, the women, the food, the worship team. I worship God there and I do what I can to be an example to the children of what we are supposed to do. Not judge. Christians who are at church say what they think is sinful in your life- but what they don't know is God's eyes are watching them talk about us and our sin- past or present( I mean I could think about having sex) then they will eventually be convicted of their own sins. This is why they say bad things or look down. To justify their own sinful nature.

101

amy, Don't feel guilty. If you are questioning things then you need to have guilt free expression. You have found the right safe place to speak your mind and learn from others. Well most of the time anyway.

You are right 101, you do go to church to worship God, not the people in it. But, there is a point when the people in it stop being about worshiping God and therefore spiritual growth and learning become stagnant.

I can pray to my God at home, by myself or with my children and not worry about being told I do not have the spirit with me because I question some of the teachings of the church. I want it to be about what is in my heart, not what someone wants to put in my head. My topic I posted in the other section is an example of what I am trying to say, how can you learn something, when the rules keep changing?

Thanks Curiosity. Sometimes it is just very hard to let go and trust yourself to find your own truths.

amy, I felt that way when I began my quest for my truth. If your god is what you make it then no one has any say in the matter.

Just go to another church Amy. It is simple. People sometimes are in a Church that does not grow. It is because they find a comfort zone. But doesn't God say to go and organize with other believers? At the beginning it will be hard to find a new church. But you can always visit a few. It cannot hurt.

I see what you are saying 101, but my situtation is a tad bit more complicated than that. But, my question to you is, did God really say this at all, or is this man's interpretation? Besides, I think me and my girls are a pretty darn good organized group!

I believe it was God's word. It is so we can be strong and share.

Just make sure that you and your daughters make the habit of sharing in your group. This is all that matters.

Girl I have had situations too. It is all complicated. But what someone told me once is just forget what I did in the past- premarital sex- bastard child- and think of her as a Godsend. Not as a sin. The only thing that should matter is the growing you do now and so on. This will be an example for your child. I think that a situation like this is complicated, it maybe similiar or way off base then yours. But hey and I am divorced-- this also is looked at as wrong. I say whatever- God knows my situation and I do my best as a single mom and the head of my household.

101,

That is good, if it is working for you! Right now, though, I do question exactly what is God's word, because I do feel man has twisted it to his purpose. I am still Christian, but finding my own way.

I think that is awful someone would refer to your child in that context. That expression makes me shudder. No child, ever, should be called that. I hope your daughter NEVER hears those words, it would break my heart to think she would. That is not religion, it is hiding behind the cloak of it, IMO.

Perhaps if christians would stop just saying "I'm christian" and expecting others to know exactly what they believe they wouldn't be generalized? I mean 'cmon, when someone asks you what YOU believe, and you respond by saying "I'm christian", there is nothing but their experiences with other christians to base their assumption on as to what YOU believe.

Basically, you're telling them you believe what all christains do. You willfully pigeon-hole yourself into a sterotype, then throw a fit when people judge you based on what they understand based on their experiences with other christians??? That is a bit pretentious don't you think? After all, you forced them to generalize becasue you still haven't really told them what you believe.

It's obvious with all the different dinominations of christianity, they all don't believe the same thing, and in any congregation there are interpetations they don't all agree with. When people ask you what you believe, they are interested in you, not your religion.

Sorry if that came off as a rant, but I had to say it.

No one has called her that to my face because if they did I would knock them into next week. But the way I always felt that was a child who was born out of wedlock were referred to as that nasty word. The way I think of it is that I was supposed to have her. Luckily people have not came to me and said this. I just know how people are. And how the church is. Especially elders. They see you as a harlet with a Jezzabel spirit. I see this as a misunderstanding. The fact is that the others whose sins are in their closet that are not exposed can always see the visible product of sinful nature.

Yup, yup,

I know what you are saying. I just hate to see adult hang-ups taken out on the little ones. Don't understand it.

Knothere:
You are right, I probably have said that I am a Christian one too many times. I think it is strictily for my benefit though, no one else's, to reinforce this to myself. So, sorry about that. As for saying what I believe in, couldn't tell you to be honest.... I am still figuring that one out myself.

101, do they still use words like harlet and jezzabel? How outdated is that?

What are you supposed to say prostitute? Whore? They mean the same. I have always heard it that way. It is more appropiate that way then saying whore. I think anyways. imo.

I would just think that they would get real about the world. IMO the people you are refering to are in the dark ages if they can't accept a person who has sex before marriage. Besides weren't you married? I'll bet many of them weren't virgins on their wedding night either.

Curiousity IMO the views on sexuality as purported by theology has contributed in large part to the dysfunctional expression of many a person in todays world, this is one of many poor ideas of religion, Geez one doesn't learn a healthy sexuality by denying it and calling it sinful I just can't fathom how one finds comfort in ideas such as these or pratical use do you? , namaste Sheri

my little friend, while I realize you are joking, it still proves my point. My people have suffered enough under the hands of yours, since the year 351, approximately. Thank God Emperor Theodosius apparently liked the Jews, or he might have wiped us out, along with countless pagans. Obviously you realise I'm not even close to an atheist, and were joking. the Jews have a saying, "forgive, but remember." The original Christians were pretty much wiped out by the Roman Empire after the Sanhedrin abandoned them. Did you know the hebrew word for christian is still "Notzrim" as in Nazarene?Until Theodosius revived it in 351, it was pretty much dead. I think it is very apropos that the symbol for this hate-filled "religion" is a roman torture device, even today. Very good symbol for a group of people who have stopped at nothing to spread there poison. Go ahead, say "that was just that one group", lie some more. We shut you out 2000 years ago. theodosius, Jim Jones, charles manson, King Ferdinand, Queen Isabella-all xians. all murderers. Why generalise when I can name names? Why take it when we fight back now? Jesus, if he were a real person, would be horrified at the acts in his name.