Greetings forum,

There are many things that people hold as truth, but are really judgements.

Truth is that the wind blows.

Judgement is calling someone ignorant for their refusal to look into something that neither hurts them to look into as wells as neither hurts them not to look into.

I think before people judge, they should display to others that their judgement is merely opinion for the sake of every man and woman's dignity. If we all attack each other with rude comments, then it just shows how reliable our information to each other really is.

God bless and good day

It is my opinion that the wind does not blow. Prove it!

That would help a lot, in my opinion.

but wait i thought you said you can decide if you want to believe in the wind or not cause we can't see it?

But we can feel the wind and see its effect on our surroundings

Joc, You cannot discredit truth, truth is truth and it can neither be proven or disproven, It simply is.



Blue when you stop pretending you become totally truthful, Always choose to take responsibilty for your truth it is a great ear mark of maturity this will not happen as long as a society we equate punishment with responsibilty! REsponsibility isn't taking a fall beating your self up with guilt and shame, It just means to be willing to do whatever you can to make the outcomes you have chosen produce the best results for all involved and when they don't do what you can to remedy the situation if it can be remedied, then move on no guilt no shame no punishment just responsibility. Good topic Blue. namaste Sheri

Some "truths" can be proven through science.

Oh In my opinion Yele that is, Namaste sheri

Also a fact

It is my opinion that the statement: Truth is that the wind blows is not the truth. I am not discrediting truth. Truth is. It just is. But in my opinion the wind does not blow. In my opinion the wind sucks and there is a diffence between sucking and blowing.

Truth is neither real nor fake. It's just a thing that all people have.

I think that people making judgements can be a major problem in this forum...

That's what they do in this website.

As far as truth is concerned it doesn't matter, all you have to know is your truth, not someone else's, Truth only has to lead you to your own, life is truth because it reveals itself to itself, Does science claim to be the truth??? Namaste Sheri

exactly

Couldn't have said it better myself.

all of this pointing back to the fact that it all comes down to what happens in the brain. Interesting how believers are more suseptable to things such as hallucinations, fantasies, etc?

so a person cannot prove they see something such as a hallucination? or can they ?

I think and I am going to say that being a believer does not make you just believe in anything. You have to have a attitude that wants to believe. I could believe in aliens. But the thing is I have never seen an alien. Does this mean that I am wrong? Could the possible aliens just be what christians call angels? Who knows. I just think that maybe a person who has faith is always going to believe in something.

Does this make a person gulliable? I have been told before I was gullable. But I - well I am. Big deal. I think I just want to see truth in someone and things.

Thruth is subjective.



That has nothing to do with passing judgement. If someone doesn't know 2+2=4, isn't it the truth that they are ignorant of the answer to the equation? To choose to remain ignorant is stupid, THAT is a judgement.



It comes from the frustration of people that refuse to accept others may have a differing opinion that is contrary to what they believe. Aren't the people that refuse to listen being judgmental before anything is even said? There is nothing dignified about choosing to remain ignorant to what someone else believes and not making an effort to understand them, that is insulting. To me it's more insulting to be dismissed & ignored than be called names...At least if they call me names I'm being aknowledged.

Before I get to the quoted text, I have something to say: I have studied or thought over perception in and out. I am not an expert on it simply because there is no one but myself that can give myself the previously mentioned title. Please bear with me as I list a collective of observations I have made thus far, displayed hopefully objectively. [I will defend them if need be. Also note I make "contradictions"]:

- Absolutes do not exist in any way, shape, or form.
- Any truth is a whole and since it is truth, an absolute.
- Good and Evil are two arms of the three in an absolutely subjective existance.
- Anything can be percieved in any way.
- No one perception, opinion, or judgement is absolute or truth.

These may sound absurd but I have a wealth of reason behind them. If you are curious, I would love to debate or discuss with you.

Now to the quote. I am aware that you [Yelekiah] put Truths within quotations. Instead of picking up a debate with you I will simply make a statement. A "truth" can never be proven. If something could be proven 100% with zero chance of it being wrong we would not be where we are today. The world can be percieved through any number of colors or metaphors. But, playing on the common one, Truth is not simply black or bhite. It is black and white. If truth was only one terminal of the spectrum or metaphor, it could be 100% proven. It is not, since a 100% can be considered an absolute and/or perfection and neither exist. A truth can only be proven 99.9% repeating, with the probability of it being incorrect a minimum of .x1% [x standing for the assigned number of zeros before 1]

A simple logic I have come up with is the following: Because infinity exists and because truth is subjective, there is infinite possibility. Truth can be and cannot be both right and wrong, black and white, or any other possible or impossible metaphor, adjective, or feeling attached with it. This contradiction is not a contradiction at all. It is a paradox.

Sound absurd? Great.

Raven that is an excellent post i share the same approach to life as you do, I enjoyed your post alot namaste Sheri

I have one comment about the insulting to be dismissed and ignored. To dismiss and ignore is optional. I can dismiss and ignore people who slander, do drugs, and hurt people for pleasure. It is not neccessarily an insult to be dimissed and ignored, because often times one is ignored when he refuses to hear other people's views and advice. Also, there are somethings in this world that are wise to not experience.
But yes, i do agree on part that if people refuse to listen, it is prejudgement without proper cause. If truth is subjective, then who is to say God doesn't exist as fact, yet I here very much in this forum. If truth is subjective, then everything we learned through science could be completely wrong or completely right. That is a very interesting view, however.
As far a choosing to remain ignorant as a result of stupidity......what about the mentally handicapped? What about those who know no more than thirst and hunger? I think refusing to listen to someone is ignorant only if you are willing to listen at all. For example, if someone comes to this forum and speaks his views, he should be willing to listen to others' views with an open mind and show the same respect he would want. That is my opinion.

God bless

Only if they're on drugs.

First off, if you choose to remain ignorant, it implies you could listen and learn, but choose not to...I'm not talking about involuntarily being stupid, but being stupid on ones own accord...But I'm not going to split hairs with you over it, I think how I stated it was quite clear.

Perhaps you need to learn the definition of ignorant? It is not an insult. I will freely admit there are many things in the world I'm ignorant of, it's not a bad thing, it means I don't friggin know.

Yes, I agree. The wind both sucks and blows at the same time. It has to suck from somewhere first before it can blow to somewhere else.

if only that were the case? studies have shown that "believers" (in gods, spirits, and other such paranormals) are more likely to suffer from hallucinations and other such things.

hyper, what if, maybe, just maybe, it's all just a reflection of a greater reality beyond all our perceptions, and we make up our little myths because we can't directly perceive it? why are you as closed-minded as the Christians are?

This is precisely why the wind always blows in west Texas....because Oklahoma sucks.

i never gave an explanation why, but was merely stating the correlation. The common language used is 'hallucinations' in these cases, thats all.

in my studies I have read utterances from voodoo, and chinese mediums/shamans. I used to be very good friends with a couple who were members of a charismatic group. they letg ,me transcripts of "messages from the holy spirit". not suprising, they were indentical to the other material; just change a word or two! this supports the occult principle that these messages come from the same source, somewhere beyond the consciousness.

In my opinion, truth is what somebody beleives. Even scientists hold different opinions of what is correct or right about a subject.

We argue on this forum because our truths and opinions are different from each others. It is not that we don't listen to somebody else's truth, it is just that we have our own opinion on what we think is the truth.

you see, i am in agreement that it all stems from one source. we just differ greatly on what that source is!

they come from the supraconscious or racial memory.

thats your version. I say it stems from the basic primitive biology of certian parts of the brain.

exactly-the supraconscious/racial memory.

please clarify. are you saying that racial memory is genetically encoded within the brain, or are you saying that parts of the brain act as a transmitter/receiver that communicates with the racial memory?

why should it matter? same difference. we don't really know whether there is a difference. the answer to your question would be, yes!

is this a derivative of the old "ends justify the means" argument.

one suggests there is something "out there" that the brain/consciusness taps into while the other suggests people are born with an imprint of all "memories" of their ancestors. While on the surface it may sound like they are the same because they both can answer the same question regarding "ancient memories", they are very different indeed.

there is not sufficient evidence to support either, so you are correct there.

I think the fact that we are discussing the same structure found in all human brains is the reason the stories are the same. No racial memories, but merely that the same hardware generates the same results. Pretty simple, but not proven either. That is why i just give you the for your alternative explanation.

It could be all those things, God, angels, subconscious, energies, cosmic consciousness.

The problem is that none of these things can be proven, only debated.

Whichever somebody believes is their own truth, and opinion.

the objective is to discover "the truth" so we can put all the subjective, pranormal, superstitious explanations behind us!

my point exactly.

I know the truth. But it would scare you.

Hyper, the paranormal is and can be explained to a point. Is it not? The reason why we cannot fully explain the unsolved mysteries- spontaneous human combustion and so on. This does not mean it does not happen. How would you explain the human body just bursting into flames?

What's the point? You already have your truth. Starting out with a bias agenda only serves to make your truth marketable, it doesn't make it true.

my biased agenda? that right, you better watch out. i am going to take over the world.

Hey that was our plan why did you not include my name?

Sorry 101.

You might be surprised as to what does or does not scare me. I hold that while do to limitations of the human we can not explain everything, that everything non-the-less is still a natural/normal part of the universe. "Paranormal" is just a nice way to make inteesting stories out of the unexplained (embellisment 101 - the course, not you)

You know I never looked at it like that. That is the greatest answer ever. You just explained something in few words that made perfect sense to me.

That everything is a part of the world. That it is perhaps normal- just unexplained.

PS: you are forgiven.

Watch out for what? Another salesperson selling something I don't need?

well, if you don't need what i am "selling"..... perhaps you should check to see what this "agenda" is before you speak of such things!

p.s. given my philosophical stance, saying i am selling something you don't need is saying you don't need yourself, your own thoughts, your own feelings, your own identity.

With this confession of yours done, I shall now call you "an excellent drone", and deem you 4 of 11.

Sorry, it's obvious to me from what you said you believe you already know the 'truth'...Ok fine, I maintain truth is subjective to the individual...You already stated the "objective" of truth is to dismiss what other people may believe...That is clearly an agenda by definition is it not?

But you go on with your brand of "truth" & thinking you aren't bias.

PS - The attempt at insult certainly took effort, but had poor form... 2-10 -