Lately after talking to a lot of people on these boards, and new people I meet these days, I agree that religion does seem to be losing. In the day and age of the Crusades, religious conversion was in it's highest forms, be killed, or follow god, better to be dead, then to live in a life of sin.

Nowadays, I find it is in fact the opposite. Be a skeptic, or be ridiculed by your peers and friends. It seems everyone knows more about video games, T.V's, cars, and so fourth, then their own religious roots. And even though a large population claims to be Roman Catholic, so many that I talk too have no clue about the religious history. Is this the devils world ?, is the devil winning ?, whos to say. All I know is that science is starting to overcome religious beliefs, and the fact people believe in any type of God these days are looked down upon as foolish or unlightened. Personally, people say I live such a bland or boring life, cause I neither drink, nor do any types of drugs. I feel to the point that I am no longer "normal", that to be normal in this world, you NEED to party, get smashed, get high, use condoms, believe in abortion, and so fourth. I truely believe that the skeptic conversion is upon us, and for everyone that does believe in God, and keeps true to the teachings, this goes out for you. Be strong, love yourself and your friends, don't give in too peer pressure, or skeptic conversion. God will never abandon you, but you may still abandon God.

God Bless.

No, you don't "NEED" to do any of the things you outlined, if you choose. However, it is the height of arrogance to try to deprive others of them.

But what people need to do is accept the fact that what works for you, doesn't necessarily mean it will work for the other guy.

Just because you don't like abortion, for example, is no reason for you to deprive another of the ability to use it if need be.

Please note, I am not saying you are for or against abortion, I am just using it as an example.


By the way....
You mention using condoms, AND abortion in the same sentence. How then, is a person to prevent an unwanted pregnancy? Dumb luck?

The "rythm method"...Worked for all those catholics with 7+ kids.

Unfortunately, this is true (I think people can disagree but still have respect for others).

I see this a lot too. Some preachy people don't even read the Bible. Sad, really.

Yes

As long as they say the Bible is metaphorical, it's all good.

is the Devil winning?

I think it's just that people have got tired of being told what to do (and mostly, what they can't do) by the churches; I think a lot of people still do have some spiritual needs, whatever, but they don't like the way that the churches, and the Bible, are continually lecturing them with great long lists of what they mustn't do.

Be individual! Find your own way!

use random smilies!

This can go both ways, one of this things that made me more of a skeptic was actually learning about the history of the religion I use to believe in, if you truly want to understand you religion then people should honestly look back on it see where it came from and what it has done, and I’m not talking about any specific person but to me the most religious people know absolutely nothing about the history of what christianity has done, or where it came from, they are content to going to church every Sunday and listening to someone tell them what they should believe...
It’s been said many times by atheists on this board but the bible is the biggest creator of atheist, so I will add the second biggest, the history of the church and the third science that will not conform to the bible...

But these again are my opinions

Also to me in my real life I’ve never been surrounded by skeptics... certainly not enough to ridicule the religious people around me, it's almost always the other way around...

Personally, I don't believe we as a nation are doing good for ourselves. Just a matter of time before we destroy the world due to our own curiousity, or inventions.



Im telling people that live towards the churchs teachings and code, to keep on following that code, that they are not alone. There should be no unwanted pregnancys, you live your life the way it is, you accept the consequences. Sex is a pleasuring experience, but is also used to create life, we have simply tryed to cap the greatest thing about it, just to abuse it in our society.

What gets me is that so many people are spiritually sceptical, but in the same breath profess their belief in UFO's(controlled by ET).

I see it as a double edged sword. You claim that religious people are ridiculed? Well where I live it is the opposite of that. The majority of people here are baptists. And if you don't follow their way of doing things you are looked down upon, Sundays and wednesdays are for church as well as weekly revivals and bible studies etc. For someone like me who sees things differently who chooses to make informed decisions based on fact rather then on a very old book written by men who lived in a time when things were very different I see that as silly. I am not here on this planet to do nothing but worry about what will happen when I die. I am here to live and I personally don't see why I or anyone else should have to be scared into following a path, actually I would say if you have had to do that, use fear as your primary tool then there must be something wrong with your theory in the first place. I don't mind those who believe different then me, in fact it can be enjoyable to talk to people who are so very different. However if there is a constant undertone of you must convert or you will burn etc that the problem is on the side of the religious and not the skeptic. It's the religious side that must convert that must judge others and tell them they are wrong and bad etc.......really if you think about it it's silly to even question the motivation behind the act.....for the church anyway it's always been the same thing and those of you who follow blindly with this need to make others change to conform to your way are just helping the cause......good luck with that just leave me out of it


But that's just my opinion

So a husband and wife shouldn't engage in sexual relations unless it is for the purpose of procreation?

IMO, this all relates to an awakening in the age of aquarius. We as a race of humans have evolved/morphed into a more intellectual being. We no longer believe in the old stories and fables. Most of us live in the real world and in real time, that is all about what is tangible and physically possible. Not everything can be explained by scientific theory, yet, but the more science studies the more we will learn. The more evolved we become the less we are dependant on unseen entities. Spirituality in the 21st century is not conforming itself to the dogma of religion, it's evolving into a personal emotion. Whatever is your feeling of choice is where you will find the entity you create. The believers of the old way will still cling to the notion of an entity that is a body of matter.
As for you living a boring life because you don't party and abuse your body and mind. That is a wonderful thing to do for yourself and not at all boring. I'll bet you stimulate and amuse yourself in many other ways that are less harmful. The only thing you should keep in mind is that it works for you and doesn't necessarily work for someone else as JMPD said. As for the abortion issue and other issues you don't agree with, I don't think you want the responsibility of making the decisions for everyone according to your doctrine. If the laws are secular, then everyone has the choice to make the decisions necessary for them. But if you make the laws according to religious rules then you do not have the freedom of choice.

excilent post bacca i agree 100%

I agree, I'm not suggesting we should go our own way and be allowed to do whatever we like, just that I think people are getting fed up with being told what to do in such detail, that they should be expected to take every word in the bible literally (it was written thousand of years ago - times change). More freedom to follow their own spiritual path, less instructions.

(*edit* It's not easy having a serious discussion about religion with a grinch avatar, but hey.)

Yep, follow the code that is responsible for the many young boys running around, rubbing their bums with psycological problems for the rest of their lives because the "code" turned out perverts and put them in a postion of trust. Yeah, at least it holds down the Catholic birth rate! - LC

Do you mean the Age of Pisces, curiousity? Funny because we're living in that now. To be Piscean is to be illogical. Perhaps it's back to ignorance.

Aren't we supposed to be coming into the age of Aquarius, whenever that might be, anytime between now and 2012 it seems ...

This post is not to start another religious to skeptic debate. No skeptic can prove God exists, and vice versa, so spare the 12 - 30 pages of arguing. I personally wanted to state my beliefs for all to know, and to congratulate my fellow believers, to stand against the pressures of everyday society. I have nothing against skeptical people, I cannot judge anyone.

The age of aquarius began in the 60's and continued until the beginning of the 21'st century. Actually pisces is inquisative. It seeks to reach beyond the reality of the here and now. Spirituality is the realm of pisces. So the concept of the physical god or man (jesus) is not what the age of pisces is interested in.

If I'm not mistaken the Age of Aries comes after this one, the Piscean. Inquisitive, but illogical, stuck in dreams, fantasies. Irresponsible even. Not one that lives in the "real world".

Azalin, you didn't answer my last question.....

Yele, the inquisitive nature of pisces and the illogical and illusionary are the way many inventions and philosophies began. You can't rule out this kind of behavier because it has many advantages. When we move into aries is when we put these ideas into reality and make them work.

The Age of Pisces must be speaking for you.
The illogical I liken to the Dark Ages where science wasn't valued as much as say, the Renaissance. I hope you're not confusing the two. Can't wait for the Age of Aries though.
So...you don't believe in God, but astrology, which isn't scientific fact either? Interesting...

I will answer your question, I just do not want another religious debate is all. A man and wife can have sex anytime they want too, but must be aware of the consequences of having a child. Sex is used for creation, not for pleasure, pleasure is temptation, and it should be controlled, much like everything else in this world. Society has twisted it in this way. Doing drugs like cocaine, heroine, ectasy, all these can be very pleasurable for that person, however, society bans these because they are harmful. In todays age, even sex is harmful, with all of the STD's that had circulated, and have become victim to genetic mutatations in us all to create things like AIDS. I just agree with the church's teachings on this, if you want to have sex for pleasure, you must understand all of the consequences, pleasure leads to temptation, temptation generally leads to sin.

soooo it is better to live without temptation, therby not testing the strength of your faith?

Reminds me of an old joke that says "I can resist anything but temptation'.

Well, good for you and the strength of you beliefs. I hope that they bring you comfort and peace.

good journey

to me gods are a figment of mans imagination but there is so much more to the energy of the universe and I think these are being revealed to us more every day. That's if we're willing to look. The ancient astrologists gave us the tools to work with but when organized religion took over the world these works went underground out of fear. As we went into the age of aquarius we revived the interest in the ancient works. Numerology is another thing that has relevence to the universe. Pisces is taking all of what we know, real and fantasy, and exploring the possiblities.
yele, if you think in terms of the dark ages that is what you will see.

No sex for pleasure, no drugs, no alcohol. Wow. Life would not be worth living. I am glad I accept my sins. Life is more fun that way.

i would most certianly not like any form of government formed around your position.

In this day and age, the devil and society tempts me every second, of everyday JMPD1. It's the willpower to follow ones own morals that stands between me, and the person beside me.

" And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen ".

These energies could very well be God, curiousity. But that's another debate.

Sure it has relevence, but more validity than God? To science...no. Pisces is leaning more toward the illogical, daydreams, etc. Hardly comparable to the Age of Aquarius. Pisces is a different type of enlightenment though. Not one of reason, but spirituality.

I hope you're being sarcastic. If not I'll assume you can't read. Logic to me, isn't something often corrlated with the Middle Ages. Just an example I used.

azalin, it must be real hard to hold on to your beliefs when temptation is one of the strongest human emotions.

yele, you do have a sense of humor, I know it.

You must be confusing me with someone else.

By control Hyper, I meant through means of willpower, not government means. No one can tell you, when you can, and cannot have sex, but eliminating a major part of what it does, is just abusing it.

and 3 squares a day and an hour outside each day for exercise.

Aye, it can be, but It's not hard to live a good life, it really isen't. You just follow what you believe in, say no when you have too, give help when it's needed.

I agree those are great things to live by. I try to.

Three cheers for you Azalin. I totally understand and agree with what you say here.

If anything, the opposite is true. I find myself, for instance, at my job, being one of the few non-xians. every year, i dread the so-called "xian" holidays. there is a xmas tree just put up today in the break room, and my company actually used a real tree this year. As I have explained to you guys, I am anything but religious, although I follow very spiritual path. I don't eat pork in any form. Every year I have to listen to people at company parties say to each other "he's jewish, don't give him the ham," or "so why don't you believe in Christ our lord and savior? i have many jewish friends who are saved!" it is on the streets, in businesses. Azalin, your patronizing attitude is total b.s. Your Yeshu is all around us. Your people control all three branches of the federal gov't of the u.s. Are you greedy? If anything, your religion controls almost anything in this country, and the rest of us are just lucky that they don't start a crusade, or inquisition, or worse. So, I don't care for yo0ur condescending attitude. Christians don't own God, and it's about time you guys accept that your medieval kiss the cross or go to hell attitude is a crock. I believe strongly in God of my understanding, my prayers are answered, my God is very alive, and I am tired of Christian oppression, which has continued uninterrupted since 325 ce after the council of nicea. There is nothing beautiful about the xian religion, and if anything, if there is a Satan, you are the one worshipping him, not the rest of the world. Your people have destroyed native cultures all over the world, and your missionaries continue to disrupt beautiful native cultures to this day. How dare you! Your religion has held back science since it burned the library at alexandria! Azalin, your closed-minded "religion" is more than still dominant and repressive to all who oppose it. Where do you get your ideas about the state of the world?the 700 club?

I see a lot of anger in your post... you hate Roman Catholics , because they do not follow your religious path ?. You hate me, because the people around myself are skeptics ?. I was just giving my personal belief, I cannot speak for you, nor would I dare too. In where I live, Ontario Canada, I have not met a lot of religious people. Even my own brothers are skeptics. I cannot vouch for my religions past action, nor would I try too. The church is not perfect, because WE are not perfect. The church forgives, and with that, the world should forgive. Instead, everyone holds a grudge against the church, and yet, everyone acts like they have never sinned ?. " Whomever has not sinned, may throw the first stone ! ". To hold so much anger GM is holding yourself back. If your fellow workers patronize you, of course, this is not right, instead, you should set the example. Tell them how you feel about it, and remind them, that they are never to judge you, for that is Jesus Christs position ( according to them ) , and I would assume, they would then understand.

Once again, I apologize if this post angered you, it was my belief, of my personal surroundings.

apology accepted, but I am not angry.I actually mentioned to a couple of co-workers not too far back that I am not religious, and they pretty much shut up. People feel better if they can pigeon-hole you. I don't hate anyone. it is aggravating to see someone who represents the dominant religious point of vies in the u.s. feeling repressed.

you originally said all things should be controlled. Christianity is build on that very premise. It is a religion of dominance and control. Now you are just concerned about the world waking up to the reality that it was subverted and domineered for far to long by these types of control, dominance, and paraniod belief structures.

I always laugh when a group claims it believes everybody is equal but demonstrates what it really means is everybody that is one of them is equal.

The OP was typical of Christians who have become infected with the "Persecution Complex" - namely, that all the world has turned against them. The reality is quite the opposite. Religious attendance at church, in particular fundamentalist churches, has grown considerably since the 1960's, when a Time or Newsweek (I can't remember which it was) actually was published with the cover having the title "Is God Dead?" The majority of Americans, in particular, still hold religious faith, with most of them categorized in the area of traditional christians, whether Catholic or Protestant. Whereas, atheists are a minority, whose committment as American citizens is questioned in public by public leaders (such as George W. Bush), and who are next to unelectable to national office.

What seems to bother the believers is the perceived immorality of the modern world. But this, of course, depends on what you define as "moral." The divorce rate 100 years ago in the United States, and probably in Europe as well, was much lower than it is now. But that is largely because of the repression of women, who weren't even allowed to actually own property in the United States separate from their husbands until the mid 1800's. The 1950's and before (frequently seen by right-wingers as a kind of American golden age) were times of economic growth, but they were also perforated with racial violence and Segregation. This also has nothing to do with atheists, unless you somehow believe that a person can not be moral without God there to punish you.

That's sort of his point. People look down on you if you believe in a God these days.

I just read in another post that the majority of americans are christian, it amazes me how that could be true. If all these people are looking down on you for believing in a god then the balance is shifting faster than we thought. For one thing most nonbelievers could care less how you believe, so the ones that look down on people are only a few of a much larger group.

strangely, it is usually believers in the mainstream religions that disapprove of what others are doing.

I've yet to see a buddhist decrying what other people do with their lives and time........

If there were more Christians than non-believers that wouldn't proove anything. The majority of people on these forums are non-believers in my opinion.



You're considered "stupid" by many to believe in a God. Or close minded.

all you have to do is look and you will find why the world would turn on christianity!

lets have a look:

The American Taliban:
http://www.reandev.com/taliban/

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war." Ann Coulier

"With all due respect to those dear people, my friend, God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew." Bailey Smith

"Yes, religion and politics do mix. America is a nation based on biblical principles. Christian values dominate our government. The test of those values is the Bible. Politicians who do not use the bible to guide their public and private lives do not belong in office." Beverly LaHaye

"Don't use the word 'gay' unless it's an acronym for 'Got Aids Yet'" Bob Dornan

"A good butt-whipping and then a prayer is a wonderful remedy." Fob James

"You telling these miserable, Hell-bound, bath house-wallowing, anal-copulating fags that God loves them!? You have bats in the belfry!" Fred Phelps

"This is God's world, not Satan's. Christians are the lawful heirs, not non-Christians." Gary North

"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." George Bush Sr.

"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." George W. Bush

"When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted its data." Henry Morris

"We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand." James Watt

"All Latins are volatile people. Hence, I was not surprised at the volatile reaction." Jesse Helms

"Civilized people – Muslims, Christians, and Jews – all understand that the source of freedom and human dignity is the Creator." John Ashcroft

"The [Supreme] Court, by seeking to equate Christianity with other religions, merely assaults the one faith. The Court in essence is assailing the true God by democratizing the Christian religion." John Whitehead

"Today we are engaged in a final, all-out battle between Communistic Atheism and Christianity." Joseph McCarthy

“George Bush was not elected by a majority of the voters in the United States, he was appointed by God.” Lt. Gen. William G. Boykin

"Atheistic secular humanists should be removed from office and Christians should be elected...Government and true Christianity are inseparable." Robert Simonds

That's bull because that all happend long ago. Christians don't do that these days. They don't go out and kill people.


That's like saying the world turned on white men because of slavery.

And what about the article about evolutionists? People who believe in Creationism have a hard time becoming a scientist. They're usualy not accepted due to that they don't fully agree with evolution.

is that last post directed at me, zero? if so you might want to look at who said those things. they are all from modern times. It is going on now.

Then why turn on ALL christians? Those christians speaking about killing people should be thrown in jail.


There are ignorant Christians, ignorant non-believers, ignorant evolutionist, etc...


This topic stated that only the belief in a God can get you looked down on. Not acting like those people.

because now people are finally free to think without the threat of the christian overlords.

it has not been so long that people could freelu challenge the falsehood of christianity.

remember, those with the power, make the rules. if a lie is repeated often enough, it becomes the truth.

"The victor will never be asked if he told the truth." : Adolf Hitler

Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past. -- george orwell

Do not hold the delusion that your advancement is accomplished by crushing others.": Marcus Tullius Cicero - (106-43 B.C.) Roman Statesman, Philosopher and Orator

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do." : Samuel P. Huntington

At least two thirds of our miseries spring from human stupidity, human malice and those great motivators and justifiers of malice and stupidity, idealism, dogmatism and proselytizing zeal on behalf of religious or political idols: Aldous Huxley:

and most importantly, zero:
"It is hard to fight an enemy who has outposts in your head.": Sally Kempton