I always wonder when I think of this universe and always puzzled how matter came into existence and what is there before big bang and how this huge amount of mass was compressed as a ball of a few millimeters at that time. which forces were acted upon it .if anyone knows this please help me....

Stephen Hawking had a theory that the Big Bang was created within a collapsed universe. So what caused the creation of that universe?

I think that is one of the few Unexplained mysteries that will remain a mysterie.Forever.

There are plenty of theories, but no more than that...

I like astronomy and physics. We can tell a lot about the universe around us by what we observe and test, unfortunately that is not the case with theoretical physics. It may work on paper, but the theory is barely worth the paper that it is written on until it can be substantiated with supporting facts and observations.

Don't get me wrong, I love Hawking and think he has an incredible mind (His body...not so much...), but there are just so many things that have yet to be confirmed in his theories that I take them with a huge grain of salt.

I doubt in our lifetime we will even begin to see answers to your question. For now the answer is left to speculation, theory, and religion...

I agree, that question will remain unanswered, probably forever.

On a less serious note, it was of course our good old friend the Flying Spaghetti Monster that created the universe, he created everything and continues to play around with us silly human people

Personally, I think there was nothingness...no darkness or white light...just nothing.

Like the time before you were born. Remember that time? Of course you don't. Why? Because you didn't exist.

I like to think that this nothingness simply "evolved" and began to develop "somethingness" that eventually became the universe we live in today.



Or perhaps its like a never ending cycle...the universe is born from the obliterated matter of the old. It then grows old and dies, planting the seeds for another to come along...

Well, according to the Law of Thermodynamics, there had to have been energy in the universe to begin with. Energy can neither be created or destroyed. So far anyway.

Exactly. There is simply too much we don't know and will probably never know to be entirely sure.

Mabye before god created the universe, he had to create a dimension to put it in.
Simply put, our universe did not exist since our dimension did not exist!
He needed a dimension that could store time and energy.

i heard that there is no way to detect the first big bang....or something like that hehehe because scientist cannot look back in time beyond that early epoch and further more what do exists before the big bang?......if scientists can see the "first" universe maybe someone can answer that question.....

A teacher once told me "A Big Crunch".

Whatever was there, make no mistake, no matter what evidence, no matter what theory, no matter what speculation, under No circumstances was there a God involved.

Yes, that's the opposite of what I really think.

as far as the topic is concerned, what was befor the big bang? well, hell that is the question?
and the anwser, well, like previously mentioned there are plenty of theories out there.
and way to much spectulation for the time being, but as for a definitive anwser, well no one really knows and for that matter its prolly gonna be some time before anyone does.

but on another note theres this book out, been out for a while. its called the "TAO OF PHYSICS"....... more or less the premise of the book is how eastern mystisism meets western /or modern physics...
well accourding to the auther of said book, this anciant mystisism almost paralles our modern sciences as far as spectulation, leading, and becoming the truth, well the truth as we , for the most part know/see it.
all though most the claims in the book as far as the cultures and belifes of theses cultures goes i can see a some common ground between the two(eastern mystisism/and western physics), if one is open minded enough its there. for the most part it talks about how evey thing is part of every thing, and how every thing in reality is just another part of a bigger more true/accurate reality, i mean whatever... but it goes into quantume physics and in saying that.... its way to overwhelming for me to truly describe here at this moment an time.

so maybe according to this book...lmao again speculation and or theories here.
everything right now around us that we perseave write now as being reality is only a fraction of what realaity is..

a example acording to the book is how oppistes are equil, but on a higher like plain of existance(attained through eastern mystisism/ or knowledge of quantum physics)...i dont know maybey where all time collides and dosent move but just is.
perhapes, before the big bang, there was nothen and yet everything.
how everything was so compact it was nothen,and for some reasonit just exploded and became every thing thats is. still expanding,,,no longer compact?
now theres the ruber band theory where well eventually reach our zeinith and expand/retrack back into nothenness/or everything,,again accourding to your veiw on things.

i know its confusein but still a good read.. i now it dosent help to awnser question but i hope its understandable..

maybe this will help...
Big Bang Cosmology

The big bang theory states that at some time in the distant past there was nothing. A process known as vacuum fluctuation created what astrophysicists call a singularity. From that singularity, which was about the size of a dime, our Universe was born.

Big Bang Cosmology Primer

I refer you guys to my quote from Albert Einstein to the bottom-left.



Doesn't take a genious to figure out, but it is still a nice quote.

What came before the Big Bang. There are several possible answers, both theistic and scientific, and there isn't yet any evidence to choose between most of them. Let's take the theistic ones first.

Some theists would hold that the Big Bang was a myth, that at some specific point in time -- usually but not always a few thousand years ago -- God created the Universe complete, and pretty much as it is today. The problem with this theory -- held by some conservative Christians, I am not sure how it is viewed in Islam -- is that it means that God created the Universe complete with the evidence of a past existence of many billions of years. This would make out God to be a deceiver, and most theists reject it. (If it is accepted as a possibility, it opens up numerous philosophical problems as well. Thus it is possible to argue that the Universe was created not a few thousand years ago, but days, minutes, or even seconds ago, and that all our memories are equally 'false evidence of a past.' There is no way, if we reject physical evidence and assume this possibility, of choosing between these two ideas.)

A more rational theistic approach would hold that the Big Bang is real, but that it marks the 'Time of Creation.' This would mean that nothing existed before this except the Creator. (An alternate variety of this theory would have the Creator being one of many beings existing in a macrouniverse perhaps as crowded as this one. I have occasionally -- semi-seriously -- suggested that perhaps this Universe is the equivalent of a high school science project created by some immature resident of that macro-universe.)

I am, as I have stated, agnostic about the existence of a Creator. What I do reject are the supposed 'conclusions' drawn from such an existence, conclusions drawn by peoples for whom the entire Universe was a flat circle perhaps a thousand miles in diameter surrounded by a crystal hemisphere or series of hemispheres in which the stars and planets, sun and moon existed as relatively small chunks of flame put there by that Creator for the purpose of lighting man's existence.

As for scientific possibilities -- non-theistic but not necessarily athiestic -- it is possible that there was a 'Moment of Creation' (or better "Moment of Beginning") before which nothing existed. This is not inherently impossible or illogical. (It is a necessity that there be one thing that was not created, that either sprang into existence or has existed infinitely in the past. There is no logical reason or evidence to choose between the Universe itself or a proposed Creator.

More likely though is the 'pulsating' or 'cyclical' Universe that did exist infinitely far in the past and which has gone through an expansion after a Big Bang at the beginning of each cycle, and then an eventual contraction, when all the matter in the Universe -- through, most likely, the workings of gravity -- rushes in on itself until it crushes together, forming the 'primoridial atom' which explodes in the next Big Bang of the cycle.

(There are scientific problems with this, mostly that there may not be enough matter in the Universe to create the gravity necessary. However, it is the best theory currently going, as far as I know.)

Whether the Universe of the previous cucles was like ours, or even obeyed the same physical laws is, currently, a purely philosophical question. Some theories would hold that the Universes were, by necessity identical, and that, 30 Billion years ago
There are other theories as well, but this is already long enough.

well another veiw could be that it just happened.there was nothen and nows thers every thing, which will soon fade to nothen.

The Universe can to produce mass and energy out of nowhere, but only when/if that mass and energy disappear again very quickly. One way this strange phenomenon manifests itself goes by the name of vacuum fluctuations. Pairs consisting of a particle and antiparticle can appear out of nowhere, exist for a very short time, and then annihilate each other. Energy conservation is violated when the particles are created, but all of that energy is restored when they annihilate again. As weird as all of this sounds, we have actually confirmed experimentally that these vacuum fluctuations are real.

it seems depending on your perspective our universe has billions of years left to grow and change or just tenths of a second before its gone.
if we exist inside/ or are parts of this mass and energy, then we would experiance time at a much slower rate then if we existed out side of this mass/ or energy(we would experiance this in either many many billions of years, or just a few seconds if that, which is all dependent on our location).

im not stating that every thing is some part of someones experment or that a creater has created something.
lmao it could be just a cosmic joke, and none of us would understand or even bearound for the punchline..

you know what, i've been thinking about the answer for years on this very same question,,,,,,it lead me to the question on how the hell matter even came to exist,,,,since there is only 3 basic elements, matter, energy, and space,,,,,none of them can create matter out of nothing----------all i could think of is that there was a beginning of time and that matter just warped into existance,,,,,then matter just floated around, until quadrillions of years that the gravity of the matter pulled eachother together into one place,, and eventually causing a chemical explosion of such unbelievably massive magnitude that it flung all the matter into space

You guys crack me up sometimes. Who measured this mass and came to the conclusion,
"yep about the size of a dime". or all matter was at one time "a few millimeters in diameter!"
Call someone who believes in god crazy, or having blind faith!! these statements must rate very highly on your own created crazy scales!!??

to quote a well known book which explains the answer to this thread
"all things were made by him, without him was not anything made that was made" simple when you know how!!

From the tone of the original post, I believed Siiyah wanted the current ‘scientific’ theory... not some metaphysical theory’s... JMO

Yeah maybe
so who measured the size of the matter, so as to be 'scientifically' accurate for the thread??? Didnt get an answer!! Yours is just as metaphysical an answer.

Talk to Berkeley if you have a problem with their 'theory"...

talk to god if you have a problem with his. thanks for trying to answer any way.
just as a matter of interest do you think one of those guys at berkley measured it? why would I ask them, the answer is obvious....its made up!!

your welcome... I don't know 'how' it all began... I also have trouble understanding the whole something from nothing concept, it just doesn't 'feel' right?...JMO

"For christians, it would be obvious te see the Big bang as the actual moment of creation.The Bible tells us that God said...' let there be light ! You may possibly also remember chrisitianity's 'liner' view of history.from the point of view of a christian belief in the creation,it is better to imagine the universe continuing to expand,"

In the orient they have a "cyclic" view of history. in the words history repeats it self eternally.

In india for example,there is an ancient theory that the world continually unfolds and folds again,thus alternating b/w what indians have called barhaman's day and barhaman's night. this idea harmonizes best,ofcourse with universal expanding and contracting-in order to expand again-in an eternal cylic process. I have a mental picture of a great cosmic heart that beats and beats and beats.

I think both theories are equally inconceivable and equally exiting. and they can compare with the great paradox of eternity

Indeed, the big crunch theory is very similar to the Indian cyclic process... it would be very interesting if the ancients had 'got it right'... JMO

Big Crunch

According to some scientists Big bang was created from "NOTHING".... Time was born after some milliseconds after the explosion occured. If something was before Big Bang then how could it work without time?
These things are far from the knowledge of mankind..

Hello... first post

I agree that right now it's all just guess work. We just don't have enough information or an understanding of the laws of physics. Right now, all we can do is guess. They are educated guesses, sure, but they are guesses just the same.

There are a number of theories regarding what came before the big bang. As the previous poster stated it's pretty much accepted theory at the moment that before the universe came into being with the big bang there was "nothing" and by nothing it's meant really nothing. No atoms, no light, no time, no nothing. Actually the big bang theory is coming under increasing attack and it may go the same way as Newton's clockwork Universe and be replaced by something new. The Electric Universe theory, a theory that has been around since the 1970's is gaining much ground. So the question of "what was before the big bang" might not even be the question to ask at all. The electric universe has no big bang.

There are quite a number of theories regarding the end of the universe. The two leading theories at the moment seem to be the "big rip" and the "lonely universe." In the big rip, a new theory, says the universe will end by being ripped apart by phantom energy. The loney theory observed that all starts and galaxies are being pushed apart by the mysterious "dark matter." The rate which the universe is flying apart is accelerating, and so in this theory every thing becomes seperated by vast distance with the stars dying out alone.

I actually have my own ideas about the starting of the Universe. String theory has it that there are at least 10 dimensions and that there are multiple universes. It's thought that our universe started out from another universe. I think this theory was posted up thread and then the qeustion asked "but where did those universes come from?" My theory is they have always existed. They have always been. I know, that sounds crazy, but it's not if you think about it. It's only that it's such an alien concept to get our minds around.

Take infinity, the universe\multiverses\dimensions may well be infinite in their nature. Now infinite is a pretty difficult concept to get our minds around. It's a thing that will never, ever, end. Well, if there is no end, then there is no begining either. Makes sense? And if there is such a thing as something that never ends, then surely there can be a thing that never started and simply just is and always was. Well, that's my crazy idea. Feel free to shoot it down in flames :-D

aknowledge what i just said here,,,gravity affects everything in the universe,,,the tinyest atom out in oblivion could affect the entire universe,,,therefore gravity pulls everything together into one place over a period of rediculous amounts of time----VAST, pulls all matter into one place and eventually causes a super powered chemical reaction, therefore making the big bang---now for all we know, the big bang could have happened billions or trillions of times,,,,,image infinity,,,,,, it could have been 2 googols (a googol is a real number---this is a googol, 10 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000,,,,,,,it's a 10 to the hundreth power)

for every creation there is a creator....Life and space is infinit...believe it or not...but it is. Your brain works like a reciever i believe anyways. You are picking up signals by something else outside of this dimension...which makes me believe that is your concious...the answer to this question involves true death. Intil you die you we never be able to understand why we are here....unless you are able to co-exist in more then one optical dimension.

I think you guys are forgetting one important and fundamental aspect:

Our mind cannot understand everything! Some mysteries have to b accpeted as mysteries..as our mind is too small to understand. Well...that is why religion was created..faith..belief on what you cannot understand.

Answering an 'unanswered question forever' is just a madness... Our most outer limits are merely guesses, no more than that...

Yes, yes. we no this, yet it is mans inherent desire to learn and to know, that makes us question things. Hence religion, whether it be monotheistic or polytheistic. Now as for Time, that is an abstract idea, should we ever encounter another species within our universe, we may very discover that they have not the same concept. Hence Time is relative to the one watching, who is to say that our measurement of time is universal, it works on earth and on earth only.

As to what was here before, Plato said it best when he described the universe as the mind of an individual who knows not what he has created.

Theories abound, but at best most can never be fully supported or completely proven true.

I agree we are all just in a kid’s fish tank.

hmmm, according to quantium physics, mass cant be seperated by space,, there one and the same so to speak.
also mass and energy are one and the same. that is to assume im reading these books correctly.

which means mass,energy/and space are insepritable, or one and the same. i mean im not a expert in any of the fields.
so mass/energie/ all we perseve yada yada yada, can/under the right situation, come from nothen.
im not saying theres no creater or god/or whatever, but there is a chance accourding to our technology, that some kinda freakeish thing happen thats right.
this partical ran in to this partical an blame im responding to somthing that some one else has respondened to on the internet inside a forum, an get this..........SOONER OR LATER WHERE ALL GONNA PERISH,........lmfao what a hoot

Sorry, have to say it, NOBODYWILL EVER KNOW! Sorry to p155 on your chips, but it's just a complete mystery and until everyone is smart enough, I mean uses al of their brain, we will never understand anything about that, we just don't have the mind power to understand it, I'm getting a damn headache just thinkin about typing this.

It's mind-bending. Maybe the universe always existed, but then that would mean that there was no beginning. But how could there be no beginning? I'll ponder about it.

TeraLink Was Here!

I believe our dimension did not exist at first, therefore our universe did not exist.
That is, untill god started doing the creation thing:
Our dimension (Fabric of space) to house everything with in it, not "everything," just everything with in our dimension.

the big awkward silence?

Maybe some things we'll never know. And if we dwell on it too much, it'd drive us crazy.

Well, according to some versions of the BBT, time was created along with the big bang... so inessence, there would be no "before the bigbang" to speak of.

CERN & the Higgs particle:
http://www.exploratorium.edu/origins/cern/ideas/higgs.html



Or, the "something from nothing".

[opinion]

Ugh.

I think that everyone can safely say, the typical "god" as everyone thinks of it did not create the universe, everyone has a fairly good idea of how it was created.. I think it's time to let go of religion - It just causes trouble, feel free to argue your point to me, j_uk_ay@hotmail.com

[/opinion]

quantume events occur at the atomic level, we don't notice in daily life. on the scale of atoms and molecules, the usual of cause/effect are absent. the rule of law is anarchy/chaos, and things happen spontaneously-for no known reason. Particles of matter may simply pop into existence without warning, and then disappear again.........

seriously though, what is there before the big bang? prolly nothen,,,why?
some belive that the explosion from the big bang accually set time in motion, so if theres no time theres prolly no way to tell or measure what accually happend prior whatever the event was my brain hurts

Well, considering all the possibillities and speculations this seems to be a never ending question, taking into account man's tendancy/need to understand and know everything. Out of my personal opinion, the universe can be viewed as an "entity" with all kinds of differing systems that balance each other out. Implying that it's a possibillity that it has it's own(i'm treading on B.S here in most ppl's opinion) conscience and therefore the statement that it can be viewd as an entity. Before the big bang there was only God so i guess what i'm trying to say that if all those scriptures on God's omnipotentness and omnipresence ring true, then the universe is a part of Him. And out of Him our Universe sprang forth, and thus he created man to His image. I guess that's why everything in whichever way you wish to view it, is interconnected. Now i dont mean to say that he decided to create an extra appendage to contain our universe (as a lot of people are sure to think), but rather our universe sprang to life because of Him.

Whichever way this goes, the only way to achieve the knowledge necessary to answer such a question will be through spiritualism/religion.

The 'Big Bang' created the Universe as we see it, but our Universe is but a speck of dust that a 'Bigger Bang' created. And the 'Biggest Bang' created that, and so on and so on. That's why believing in a 'Higher Power' or 'God' isn't hard for me. It's a much simpler and less frustrating route to take. And also comforting route.

[rant]
Sorry to go off topic, but people who choose god over science are just insecure about death. They think, if they worship "it" they'll die an easier death and there's something there for them, some people just can't accept that. Or, they are neuronically challenged *rolly sarcastic eyes*

I'll probably get warned again for this.. You know what it's like, you have an opinion about religion and you get crucified, but, if you have an opnion about science, it's ok. Fact is it can't be disproven no matter what, it IS what it IS, and what it IS is the universe.

Of course it's easier to think about, only because we as humans can't imagine things just "becoming" humans are a stupid race (no offence to any humans here) ((hmmmm)).. I think mankind took the completeply wrong path in terms of evolution, which is complicating im bored.
[/rant]

hmmm let me think now....

"Sorry to go off topic, but people who choose god over science are just insecure about death. They think, if they worship "it" they'll die an easier death and there's something there for them, some people just can't accept that. Or, they are neuronically challenged *rolly sarcastic eyes*"

yeah but what if u are religious, and know that your going to Hell?, how can death by easy then?, deaths going to be a complete mind *** for you, so maybe choosing not to beleive in it makes it far easier for most becuase they have no worries on their mind, death will simply be death. At the end of the day though u wont know till the day u die, and u certainly wont know what there was before the universe.

so how do you know there is no god? how can you be so sure? and what exactly does science explain? did isaac newton tell us what gravity actually is? - no he didnt all he could do was explain its effects as a physical force.
Did einstein prove his theory of relativity? no - he didnt. which is why its still a theory.
did charles darwin prove his theory of evolution? no - he didnt and nobody else has either which is why evolution remains a theory.
and did you know that all three men ended their lives as believers in god?
Science tells us that the universe is eternal.....which is strange because that is what the bible says too. Science tells us of the existance of black holes in space....a black hole if such a thing really does exist would defy every law of physics.