God created Man ? Or Man created God
Who created Who ?
Mark Twain
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
"Religion consists in a set of things which the average man thinks he believes and wishes he was certain of."
Albert Einstein
"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever.... This is a somewhat new kind of religion."
George Bernard Shaw
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
Full Version: Who created Who ?
Man created the Christian paradigm of God.
Moving to a more appropriate forum.
man now this is opening a can of worms....
IMO, God created man, and then man perverted God and turned it into organized religion 
pa, i have to agree.
QUOTE
"I suggest that the anthropomorphic god-idea is not a harmless infirmity of human thought, but a very noxious fallacy, which is largely responsible for the calamities the world is at present enduring"
(William Archer / 1667-1735 / Theology and War)
"Man is, and always has been, a maker of gods. It has been the most serious and significant occupation of his sojourn in the world."
(John Burroughs / 1837-1921 / American essayist)
"It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him."
(Arthur C. Clarke / born in 1917)
"All Bibles are man-made."
(Thomas Edison / 1847-1931)
"Few nations have been so poor as to have but one god. Gods were made so easily, and the raw material cost so little, that generally the god market was fairly glutted and heaven crammed with these phantoms."
(Robert Green Ingersoll / 1833-1899)
"Man is certainly stark mad: he cannot make a worm, yet he will make gods by the dozen."
(Michel de Montaigne / 1533-1592)
"Which is it, is man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's?"
(Friedrich Nietzsche / 1844-1900)
"That fear first created the gods is perhaps as true as anything so brief could be on so great a subject."
(George Santayana / 1863-1952 / The Life of Reason / 1905)
"My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own image to be servants of their human interests."
(George Santayana / 1863-1952)
(William Archer / 1667-1735 / Theology and War)
"Man is, and always has been, a maker of gods. It has been the most serious and significant occupation of his sojourn in the world."
(John Burroughs / 1837-1921 / American essayist)
"It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him."
(Arthur C. Clarke / born in 1917)
"All Bibles are man-made."
(Thomas Edison / 1847-1931)
"Few nations have been so poor as to have but one god. Gods were made so easily, and the raw material cost so little, that generally the god market was fairly glutted and heaven crammed with these phantoms."
(Robert Green Ingersoll / 1833-1899)
"Man is certainly stark mad: he cannot make a worm, yet he will make gods by the dozen."
(Michel de Montaigne / 1533-1592)
"Which is it, is man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's?"
(Friedrich Nietzsche / 1844-1900)
"That fear first created the gods is perhaps as true as anything so brief could be on so great a subject."
(George Santayana / 1863-1952 / The Life of Reason / 1905)
"My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own image to be servants of their human interests."
(George Santayana / 1863-1952)
http://atheisme.free.fr/Quotes/Man_created_god.htm
gods are just a product of creativity. creativity that occurs completely on its own.
edit: i just could not resist adding some more.
QUOTE
Richard Dawkins
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence."
“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”
Epicurus
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?”
Benjamin Franklin
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
Delos B. McKown
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike."
http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/atheistquotes.html
QUOTE
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence."
WARNING WARNING
Disrespectful pot shot detected!
QUOTE
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence."
And so not true. =) Why was the bible dated and examined by believers then? =P
Good question
I used to feel that Man created God as an answer as to how we all got here and how the universe was created, but now I believe that God created man
I used to feel that Man created God as an answer as to how we all got here and how the universe was created, but now I believe that God created man
QUOTE(GIDEON MAGE @ Dec 8 2005, 05:25 PM) [snapback]966790[/snapback]
pa, i have to agree.
It's good to know we have some common ground somewhere
QUOTE(zero)
QUOTE
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence."
And so not true. =) Why was the bible dated and examined by believers then? =P
HMM....I wonder why it was believers 
Man created god as a way to control the masses and give those in power excuses to do as they choose since it was "in the name of god" it became acceptable....
I can work with the possible whys of creating gods, My question is why create such a piss poor excuse of one ?? why create a god that is a monster? why worship a meglomaniac??
If creating is natural why wouldn't something better come out of it??? Namaste Sheri
If creating is natural why wouldn't something better come out of it??? Namaste Sheri
God created man in His image. And mans ego decided to return the favor and created god in his image
QUOTE
And so not true. =) Why was the bible dated and examined by believers then?
Yeah isn't that interesting.
Maybe because that way, they could twist the facts to fit the faith.
QUOTE(Irish @ Dec 8 2005, 12:22 PM) [snapback]967287[/snapback]
God created man in His image. And mans ego decided to return the favor and created god in his image
Irish I think you nailed it MAN"S (literally) EGO (need for control for power) created a god in his own image . So there you have it as hyper has been saying all along gods are a construct of mens minds and nothing more Namaste Sheri
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Dec 8 2005, 11:38 AM) [snapback]967306[/snapback]
Irish I think you nailed it MAN"S (literally) EGO (need for control for power) created a god in his own image . So there you have it as hyper has been saying all along gods are a construct of mens minds and nothing more Namaste Sheri
Not quite Sheri berri. You are right in mans need for control and superiority that is why he wants to create god in his own image. Because Gods way is not mans way and that part is unexceptable to mans ego..
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Dec 8 2005, 01:38 PM) [snapback]967306[/snapback]
QUOTE(Irish @ Dec 8 2005, 01:22 PM) [snapback]967287[/snapback]
God created man in His image. And mans ego decided to return the favor and created god in his image
QUOTE(zandore @ Dec 8 2005, 11:45 AM) [snapback]967041[/snapback]
And so not true. =) Why was the bible dated and examined by believers then? =P
HMM....I wonder why it was believers I'm lost. What is this "dated" and "examined" business?
QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Dec 8 2005, 05:42 AM) [snapback]966912[/snapback]
And so not true. =) Why was the bible dated and examined by believers then? =P
A post of zero's....Who knows
QUOTE(Pyxis @ Dec 8 2005, 06:27 PM) [snapback]967293[/snapback]
Yeah isn't that interesting.
Maybe because that way, they could twist the facts to fit the faith.
JUdging from the number of responses to this post I suspect that our denunciation of faith is driven by our desperate need for it...
how do you arrive at that conclusion, fantazum?
God created man. 
Man made ALL of the Gods and Goddesses!
QUOTE(Irish @ Dec 8 2005, 12:54 PM) [snapback]967322[/snapback]
Not quite Sheri berri. You are right in mans need for control and superiority that is why he wants to create god in his own image. Because Gods way is not mans way and that part is unexceptable to mans ego..
Irish, now i don't think I'm off on this Man has decided that the bible is gods word thats one way , man has written gods word (the bible) thats another way, Any well meaning diety wouldn't put out a book such as the bible and call it his word, god is a he, Mans understanding of life is very infantile and that is shown through the bible, Namaste Sheri
Actually, it is very easy to create a god. I suggest that we could make time a god. After all, the first three words of the Bible pays homage to time before God is even mentioned. Time heals all wounds and gives itself freely and evenly to each person. It provides a space in which all things can happen and permits us to exist within it. It forgives and provides a future in which all wrongs can be forgotten and hopes can be stored.
See? I have invented a god. Do I have any disciples?
See? I have invented a god. Do I have any disciples?
QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Dec 8 2005, 11:33 PM) [snapback]968058[/snapback]
God created man.
This is what I don't get if god made man... then why did man make Zeus (Jupiter) Athena (Minerva), or the hundreds of other gods, I mean if you are saying that people should believe that "god" made us then how do you explain the Greek creation myths, or the Egyptian or all the other cultures not associated with christianity.
"Well our god made all of us, and then some of us made up these other gods"
Hmm interesting well what makes your god more real then all the other gods in the past and present? Nothing, he was made up just like all the rest have been through out human history
i just don't get how intodays world with all of our knowledge there are people still following ancient myths that are completely unbelieveable, then they say well it's symbolizam... of what? how man was really made? you don't think god wanted to tell us what really happened??
So is Zeus not a real God? 
imagine a battle of mythical beings. All posessing those ever present human traits (hey, they were created by humans, after all). Power and greed drove them crazy. Paranoia took a strong hold and became the central driving force in their lives. One by one, they killed off each other until there was only one left, but the paranoia had already driven this one well beyond the brink of sanity. It was so bad, that after a while the conversations he was having with himself actually formed into separate personalities and he found he could no longer live with himself. In a desparate act of self-preservation, he sent one part of himself to earth to be free of the internal torment. He figured if the voice tormented him, it surely would torment those humans on earth. Besides, he was tired of the same old games he had been playing with them. So off to torment humans went a part of the remaining being. To his surprise, that thorn-in-his-side voice became a hero rather than a tormentor, which tormented him even more. Now some of his people were being led away from him by him! What is a split personality paranoid megalomaniac who killed off all of his own kind for power to do?
you know the rest.
(hint: he sent the third personality to talk to a man and set the record on the man-god straight).
you know the rest.
(hint: he sent the third personality to talk to a man and set the record on the man-god straight).
QUOTE(manapa99 @ Dec 10 2005, 10:27 AM) [snapback]969076[/snapback]
i just don't get how intodays world with all of our knowledge there are people still following ancient myths that are completely unbelieveable, then they say well it's symbolizam... of what? how man was really made? you don't think god wanted to tell us what really happened??
It can't be too completely unbelievable. People believe it. Perhaps what you meant to say was "ancient myths that are completely unbelievable to me"?
Regards, PA
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Dec 9 2005, 09:40 PM) [snapback]969291[/snapback]
It can't be too completely unbelievable. People believe it. Perhaps what you meant to say was "ancient myths that are completely unbelievable to me"?
Regards, PA
they are just as believeable as current myths such as the bible, and the christian god
maybe more so.. i'd believe that a chariot is pulling the sun before i believed that god created the earth and everything in it in 7 days...
Well that's you. Others believe something different
Regards, PA
For the record, the seven day cycle could just be a metaphor, as many have said, but whether it is true or isn't true is not the point, but rather that people do believe it to be so.
Regards, PA
For the record, the seven day cycle could just be a metaphor, as many have said, but whether it is true or isn't true is not the point, but rather that people do believe it to be so.
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Dec 10 2005, 02:30 AM) [snapback]969467[/snapback]
Well that's you. Others believe something different
Regards, PA
For the record, the seven day cycle could just be a metaphor, as many have said, but whether it is true or isn't true is not the point, but rather that people do believe it to be so.
a metaphor for what? 4.3 billion years?
i don't get it 7 stages of world making?
if that's true then why did plants come before the sun in the metaphore surely an all knowing god was know that plants need sunlight to live
lots of people throw around the words metaphore and symbolizame for the creation story in the bible but i really want to know exactly how the creation story is realated to the acctual beginings of earth so that it could be said to be a mtaphore they have to have some similarities and i'm not seing them...
man created god, in mans own image. we are as gods, so why not make an interpretaion of us and worship it. kinda crazy how we worship ourselves... well not 'we' because i dont, but 'we' as in people who do
manapa99 - I think you have your passages mixed up!
Genesis 1:3-5: "And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day
Genesis 1:11-13: "Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day
But to expand further, first let me say I probably used the wrong word when I said metaphor.
The style used in writing Genesis is very poetic - see the similarities between the 1st and 4th, 2nd and 5th, 3rd and 6th days of creation. This poetry suggests to me that it is not a literal account of creation.
The point of Genesis 1 is not to provide an account of HOW our world came into being, else it would have much more detail as opposed to poetry. The point is rather to show WHO was responsible. God the creator of all. I am not against evolution, indeed it may be how our world came into existence. Yet I also fully believe that however we came about, God was behind it, which is after all the point of Genesis 1.
Regards, PA
Genesis 1:3-5: "And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day
Genesis 1:11-13: "Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day
But to expand further, first let me say I probably used the wrong word when I said metaphor.
The style used in writing Genesis is very poetic - see the similarities between the 1st and 4th, 2nd and 5th, 3rd and 6th days of creation. This poetry suggests to me that it is not a literal account of creation.
The point of Genesis 1 is not to provide an account of HOW our world came into being, else it would have much more detail as opposed to poetry. The point is rather to show WHO was responsible. God the creator of all. I am not against evolution, indeed it may be how our world came into existence. Yet I also fully believe that however we came about, God was behind it, which is after all the point of Genesis 1.
Regards, PA
Please read Genesis 1:26-27. I don't have time to go into the particulars this evening.
Well wouldn't it have been much easier to say I made all of this
Don’t ask just know that I did it
Why come up with a story to explain it, in a since either god is trying to recite a poem, or god is lying to his followers
I just don't get how it's a metaphor or a symbol
and then what makes this more believeavle then hesiod's theogony?
which i have to say is a much more interesting read...
Don’t ask just know that I did it
Why come up with a story to explain it, in a since either god is trying to recite a poem, or god is lying to his followers
I just don't get how it's a metaphor or a symbol
and then what makes this more believeavle then hesiod's theogony?
which i have to say is a much more interesting read...
You know, I composed this answer prior to posting my last! It's answering a slightly different question, but it still applies to what you said
I know what you're thinking, what is the difference between this creation story and all the others? The answer: in essence, absolutely nothing. Through my study of the rest of the Bible, i have come to the conclusion that this particular account is from the right God because I believe the rest of it to be true. It is possible that I am wrong, though i do not believe it to be so.
But this is just my opinion.
Regards, PA
Edited to make it more readable.
I know what you're thinking, what is the difference between this creation story and all the others? The answer: in essence, absolutely nothing. Through my study of the rest of the Bible, i have come to the conclusion that this particular account is from the right God because I believe the rest of it to be true. It is possible that I am wrong, though i do not believe it to be so.
But this is just my opinion.
Regards, PA
Edited to make it more readable.
PA, which "king kong" version do you think is telling the "real story"? 
is it the first version, because it is the first, or is it the new version because there has been time to advance the ways to show the story?
I am asking you if a story is remade often enough does it eventually become true?
is it the first version, because it is the first, or is it the new version because there has been time to advance the ways to show the story?
I am asking you if a story is remade often enough does it eventually become true?
QUOTE(hyperactive)
PA, which "king kong" version do you think is telling the "real story"?
Depends. If the newer version is anything as sucky as the Planet of the Apes remake, then I'll say the original is the real story
But that's hardly the point you were making. No, a story told and retold does not make it true. But that's assuming that this particular story was a myth to begin with.
Regards, PA
QUOTE
No, a story told and retold does not make it true.
Exactly, and what is the bible? A myth
A story that has been told and retold over and over until people everywhere believe it and now when science proves some of that story as impossible it becomes symbolic, there is no historical proof that jesus existed as he is suppose to have existed in the bible, the earth isn't the center of the universe, and wasn't created in 7 days, and it is much much older then 5 or 6 thousand years, but yet people still insist that it's the word of god? It’s a story and nothing more and it's been repeated so many times that most people think it's true
God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day
Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes
"He made the stars also." God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars
Cain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents!
Absurdities in the Bible
well as far as i know my parents created me so....
QUOTE(manapa99 @ Dec 12 2005, 02:43 AM) [snapback]970926[/snapback]
Exactly, and what is the bible? A myth
A story that has been told and retold over and over until people everywhere believe it and now when science proves some of that story as impossible it becomes symbolic, there is no historical proof that jesus existed as he is suppose to have existed in the bible, the earth isn't the center of the universe, and wasn't created in 7 days, and it is much much older then 5 or 6 thousand years, but yet people still insist that it's the word of god? It’s a story and nothing more and it's been repeated so many times that most people think it's true
God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day
Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes
"He made the stars also." God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars
Cain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents!
Absurdities in the Bible
Did you read my post about the poetic nature of Genesis 1? probably, and then decided to ignore it. The 1st and 4th day ARE related. The 2nd and 5th day ARE related. And then, just for something completely different, the 3rd and the 6th day ARE related. Light on the 1st day, light producing elements 4th day.
But your argument holds no logic if the Bible is true, only if it is false. ANd I doubt you're going to convince anyone who believes it to be true that it is not so.
And just to prove that I'm a nice guy
, I'll even point out that some people still believe the Earth was created six thousand years ago. Not that i agree with it mind you, but there are ways of explaining a six thousand year Earth, if one were so inclined.Regards, PA
QUOTE
But your argument holds no logic if the Bible is true, only if it is false. ANd I doubt you're going to convince anyone who believes it to be true that it is not so.
my argument is that it's not true, it's just been around and forced on so many people that some of them can't believe it's not true...
and as to the poetic nature you're talking about it still doesn't make sense to have light... then the thing producing not matter how the lyrics are aranged... so are you saying god sacraficed truth for art? (bad poetry)
What part of "it's not literal" don't you understand. It's poetic. Written for one purpose - to show that God is responsible for creation.
And as for your first point, I did not believe the Bible growing up. Only after I was 19 did I start to think it was true. So your argument falls to pieces.
Face it, it's only unbelievable if you think it's unbelievable (but by the same token, it's only believable if you think it's believable). But who are you to dictate what is or isn't?
Regards, PA
And as for your first point, I did not believe the Bible growing up. Only after I was 19 did I start to think it was true. So your argument falls to pieces.
Face it, it's only unbelievable if you think it's unbelievable (but by the same token, it's only believable if you think it's believable). But who are you to dictate what is or isn't?
Regards, PA
I'm afraid that man created god.
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Dec 9 2005, 11:19 AM) [snapback]968670[/snapback]
Irish, now i don't think I'm off on this Man has decided that the bible is gods word thats one way , man has written gods word (the bible) thats another way, Any well meaning diety wouldn't put out a book such as the bible and call it his word, god is a he, Mans understanding of life is very infantile and that is shown through the bible, Namaste Sheri
Are the words above your words or did Bill Gates just give you the ability so you are able to express them in this foreum?
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