QUOTE(Rainbow Rowan @ Dec 15 2005, 11:51 PM) [snapback]978217[/snapback]
interpenetration
I'm sorry...Interpenetrate? Did you mean "interpret"? What is interpenetration?
Full Version: Voynich Manuscript & The Seven Seals
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History
interpenetration
I'm sorry...Interpenetrate? Did you mean "interpret"? What is interpenetration?
I guess it was his dancing. Perhaps you could call it the Cosmic "O". As above, so below...the belt.
QUOTE(Rainbow Rowan @ Dec 16 2005, 12:08 AM) [snapback]978244[/snapback]
I guess it was his dancing. Perhaps you could call it the Cosmic "O". As above, so below...the belt.
Ah, yes. Methinks he was the lady's man if he could do this.
Lucky Shakti 
I've considered that Voynich is perhaps the key to the Philosopher's Stone and a secret having to do with DNA. The double helix coincidentally looks like entwined snakes, another hermetic symbol. Ironically, associated with salt, the third heavenly substance in alchemy that represents the final manifestation of the perfected Philosopher's Stone. The Emerald Tablet called it "the Glory of the Whole Universe."
Egyptians, who sought immortality, perhaps used it in early embalming methods, to prevent decay.
Egyptians, who sought immortality, perhaps used it in early embalming methods, to prevent decay.
....
.
QUOTE(Yelekiah @ Dec 15 2005, 11:16 PM) [snapback]978260[/snapback]
I've considered that Voynich is perhaps the key to the Philosopher's Stone and a secret having to do with DNA. The double helix coincidentally looks like entwined snakes, another hermetic symbol.
I see the think tank is working!
...
.
Soooo, obviously alchemy is an important componant of this book. Any speculations as to why? Or what the author(s) were trying to illustrate by injecting alchemy as one of the main characters?
QUOTE(coeur noir @ Dec 16 2005, 02:46 PM) [snapback]979010[/snapback]
Soooo, obviously alchemy is an important componant of this book
Well so far that is what I am speculating. We found a single French word in the book, aside from the rest of the indecipherable material, and we believe it was referring to the zodiac. Another thing, the pictures within the manuscript are similar to the pictures in alchemical woodcuts and other manuscripts. So far, alchemy is the assumption, and a good reason to keep it secret. Pisson thought that one of the authors was Da vinci. That's understandable becuase it looks like Voynich was penned around the time Da Vinci was alive. However, Pisson also believed that Plato took part in penning the manuscript as well. I find this incredibly hard to believe, given that the document would appear very yellowed and withered. But it looks fairly decent.
But I have another theory that perhaps, it may not be an alchemical text at all. But just a botanical book. Or the secret to baking a cake. These were highly valued at the time. Secrets to baking cakes ran in the family, with the hopes that outsiders would not find out.
But for now, I will continue to post information on alchemy, because I see a vague correlation to that and Voynich.
Pison, are you going to contribute to your own thread? Or are you just 'using' me and Yelekiah's research for your own ends?
Pison, are you also coeur noir?
QUOTE
Message From Pison
Hello
I just wanted to explain why I am being "quiet".
To me, it's more about the journey...to take time to stop and smell the roses. This is why I may seem vague most of the time. I don't know of any other way to be. My mind thinks in numbers and in symbols. And it takes some time to have these numbers and symbols line up, but when they do....it was still about the journey. Reflecting on how "lost" you were before you saw the image in the symbols, or the numbers, and where you are after the revelation.
In my research, there have been thousands upon thousands of symbols to sift through, and decode. It's what I do. In the past eight months, I would say that I got an average of 2-3 hours of sleep on top of working and a son. But, the journey to this point has been awesome. I have met many people, and many have followed me on the path to....whatever.
And, it's all or nothing.
This is really not the medium for this, but I want to tell you what I see. On the other hand, I have a contact at CNN who can get me an article published on their website if I write up something that looks good. Not just some posts on a message board, that anyone can take from me and write their own book for profit.
And this is my goal. f*** Yale.
I do have in mind including conversations between people who would like to be involved in the book, which is the most logical solution to my problem. Those involved would share profit, not sure about the %'s yet, but that is for later conversation. I know you are a smart individual, and I respect what you know and the information you have. you seem to be a HUGE asset, and I would love to continue conversation with you, just not in the public medium that exists now. Perhaps after I (we---a few others are interested) have written the book and have it copyrighted, will it be a good idea to spread my (our) knowledge.
Does that make any sense? Should I be more clear at some points?
(seriously
)
Hello
I just wanted to explain why I am being "quiet".
To me, it's more about the journey...to take time to stop and smell the roses. This is why I may seem vague most of the time. I don't know of any other way to be. My mind thinks in numbers and in symbols. And it takes some time to have these numbers and symbols line up, but when they do....it was still about the journey. Reflecting on how "lost" you were before you saw the image in the symbols, or the numbers, and where you are after the revelation.
In my research, there have been thousands upon thousands of symbols to sift through, and decode. It's what I do. In the past eight months, I would say that I got an average of 2-3 hours of sleep on top of working and a son. But, the journey to this point has been awesome. I have met many people, and many have followed me on the path to....whatever.
And, it's all or nothing.
This is really not the medium for this, but I want to tell you what I see. On the other hand, I have a contact at CNN who can get me an article published on their website if I write up something that looks good. Not just some posts on a message board, that anyone can take from me and write their own book for profit.
And this is my goal. f*** Yale.
I do have in mind including conversations between people who would like to be involved in the book, which is the most logical solution to my problem. Those involved would share profit, not sure about the %'s yet, but that is for later conversation. I know you are a smart individual, and I respect what you know and the information you have. you seem to be a HUGE asset, and I would love to continue conversation with you, just not in the public medium that exists now. Perhaps after I (we---a few others are interested) have written the book and have it copyrighted, will it be a good idea to spread my (our) knowledge.
Does that make any sense? Should I be more clear at some points?
(seriously
)Pison, are you also coeur noir?
QUOTE(Rainbow Rowan @ Dec 16 2005, 03:34 PM) [snapback]979110[/snapback]
Pison, are you going to contribute to your own thread? Or are you just 'using' me and Yelekiah's research for your own ends?
Pison, are you also coeur noir?
Joy! I was thinking about the SAME thing.
Here is the pm Pisson sent me. First he says this:
QUOTE
I am just going to send all the information I have about the Voynich to Yale as anonymous.
And then this:
QUOTE
BTW, I have a few contacts at Cnn(website), and one sent out a group email this afternoon. He is quick, and will find someone who may want to do an article.
And from what I understand he also wants to write a book. So...what's the point in sending it to Yale as anonymous, and not wanting anyone to profit off of your ideas...if you also want to publish things in your name?
Another thing, Pisson, we're not your robotic monkeys.
Perhaps it is a document on how to grow hydroponics??
QUOTE(Pison @ Dec 13 2005, 02:35 PM) [snapback]974070[/snapback]
I just got off the phone with Robert Babcock, the head of Beineke Library at Yale. They are NOT interested in what I know about the Voynich.
In fact, he told me to put what I know out on a website and go about "solving" the manuscript that way.
Basically..."Go and put your ideas out in public, and have them take your ideas and run with them"
So here ya go...Would you like to know how to solve parts of the Voynich?
I believe there are SEVEN ways to "decode" the Voynich. I am prepared to show everyone at least four of those ways.
Of course, someone will then steal my ideas, but who gives a f***, huh? Yale will not listen to you either. They charge $40 per request for a copy of the Voynich, and they get around 100 requests per month. That's over $30,000 per year. THIS is why they do NOT want to Voynich "solved", because the money will stop coming in, the library will stop getting it's montly number of visitors.........money, money, money.
Here we go.
Then to h*ll with them. I'll support you while you pwn their @$$3$. Enjoy yrself.
QUOTE(Vidgange @ Dec 13 2005, 06:07 PM) [snapback]974374[/snapback]
Sorry for being stupid, but what is this Voynich scriptures that you speak of?
I'm outa town Same here. I have no idea what you're talking about but yr story intrigues me.
TeraLink Was Here!
QUOTE(TeraLink @ Dec 17 2005, 06:59 AM) [snapback]979150[/snapback]
Then to h*ll with them. I'll support you while you pwn their @$$3$. Enjoy yrself.
Same here. I have no idea what you're talking about but yr story intrigues me.
TeraLink Was Here!
What ideas??
Pison has not posted since page 6. Yelekiah and I have done most of this thread.
QUOTE(Rainbow Rowan @ Dec 16 2005, 04:07 PM) [snapback]979163[/snapback]
What ideas??
Pison has not posted since page 6. Yelekiah and I have done most of this thread.
Touche, Ro. The guy even had a "deal" he would put input, but he hasn't. Also something about giving you a percentage of something. Doesn't matter to me now...
He's always going on about having "fun" with things. To me, having fun isn't doing all the work while soemone else gets paid for it. Pretty lopsided.
I tend to forget that there's an "fu" in that word. Silly me. Well, have fun with the rest of the thread.
No actually I am NOT Pison, I am his wife.
As for sending the manuscript anonymously to Yale, that's not going to happen. He was venting, angry because they wouldn't listen. He is however, serious about wanting to publish something on this. And he is also serious about the contact at CNN (however, being a news producer myself, I doubt it will get coverage without something being published first)
Pison isn't nor was he ever leading any of you on.
And as for the ideas generated on these pages, they are good ones and relevent to the "whole" package.
If I have come across as rude or as playing the devil's advocate, I apologize, I was simply enjoying witnessing the wheels turn.
And my questions were meant to have you probe even deeper into your own findings.
It wasn't about stealing ideas, or any sort of nonsense like that...
Now leave alchemy alone for a second and go back to biology and DNA....see what you find there.
We have to dissect these things carefully, from the astronomical to the biological to the mathmatical and so on and so forth....after the different parts are uncovered and examined, a whole new idea can be formed as to what the heck this book is about.
As for sending the manuscript anonymously to Yale, that's not going to happen. He was venting, angry because they wouldn't listen. He is however, serious about wanting to publish something on this. And he is also serious about the contact at CNN (however, being a news producer myself, I doubt it will get coverage without something being published first)
Pison isn't nor was he ever leading any of you on.
And as for the ideas generated on these pages, they are good ones and relevent to the "whole" package.
If I have come across as rude or as playing the devil's advocate, I apologize, I was simply enjoying witnessing the wheels turn.
And my questions were meant to have you probe even deeper into your own findings.
It wasn't about stealing ideas, or any sort of nonsense like that...
Now leave alchemy alone for a second and go back to biology and DNA....see what you find there.
We have to dissect these things carefully, from the astronomical to the biological to the mathmatical and so on and so forth....after the different parts are uncovered and examined, a whole new idea can be formed as to what the heck this book is about.
Ok, wife of Pison. This is his thread, and he has told us that he has information on the Voynich document. I don't see any of it at all.
All I see is Yelekiah and I posting our own research, and he might put a little bit here or there. This is not a question-and-answer session. But a forum where people post their own ideas.
If Pison has any information to post, he should come forward and share it. After all, that is what this thread was created for in the first place. His thread.
All I see is Yelekiah and I posting our own research, and he might put a little bit here or there. This is not a question-and-answer session. But a forum where people post their own ideas.
If Pison has any information to post, he should come forward and share it. After all, that is what this thread was created for in the first place. His thread.
QUOTE(coeur noir @ Dec 16 2005, 06:22 PM) [snapback]979330[/snapback]
Pison isn't nor was he ever leading any of you on.
You want to wager on that? (dead serious)
QUOTE
And my questions were meant to have you probe even deeper into your own findings.
So you and Pison would profit...
QUOTE
It wasn't about stealing ideas, or any sort of nonsense like that...
Keep telling yourself that. If it wasn't, Pison would have gladly posted his info as well, and not sending contradictory pms to both of us.
QUOTE
Now leave alchemy alone for a second and go back to biology and DNA....see what you find there.
Alchemy is related to that hon. FYI, it's not going to happen.
I am not leading anyone on.
Dead serious.
One has to be patient.
I started this thread to post MY ideas, all the other posting is distracting.
Dead serious.
QUOTE
We have to dissect these things carefully, from the astronomical to the biological to the mathmatical and so on and so forth....after the different parts are uncovered and examined, a whole new idea can be formed as to what the heck this book is about.
One has to be patient.
I started this thread to post MY ideas, all the other posting is distracting.
Note to Pison: you don't really post anything. Look through the thread yourself. You just post Manyard lyrics and obscure pictures. Only Ro and I have given direct information (which I've edited btw). Because as I stated before, it's lopsided. Does your "wife" use your username by chance?
Yelekiah...get over yourself for a moment and quit being so damn confrontational. He isn't stealing ideas. And you are being very judgemental. No I do not sign on under his name, why in the world would I want to do that?
I was asking questions to see if anyone of you had possibly come to the same conclusions that he has. It's as simple as that.
Yes, I'll make a wager with you that he wasn't leading you on. And I would win. He wanted to come here to post his ideas, he got a little miffed when he was "interrupted" by other people's ideas. I think he wanted to take a stab at it first and then have discussion and debate later. It didn't happen that way because this IS a public forum and people can post what and when they want to. I'm not arguing that with anyone.
I SAID alchemy was related and very IMPORTANT. No where did I devalue it's importance. What I did say was that now that everyone can agree alchemy plays a major role in book, let's move on to something YOU had previously touched on....and that would be the DNA and biology in the book. Equally important. It was kudos to you because you figured that out on your own without Pison mentioning it. Yes, we have known about the hints at DNA months ago. Along with telescopes, the golden mean, and more. This isn't news to us, however it was nice to see others (for awhile) see the same thing too...
I resent your
I was asking questions to see if anyone of you had possibly come to the same conclusions that he has. It's as simple as that.
Yes, I'll make a wager with you that he wasn't leading you on. And I would win. He wanted to come here to post his ideas, he got a little miffed when he was "interrupted" by other people's ideas. I think he wanted to take a stab at it first and then have discussion and debate later. It didn't happen that way because this IS a public forum and people can post what and when they want to. I'm not arguing that with anyone.
I SAID alchemy was related and very IMPORTANT. No where did I devalue it's importance. What I did say was that now that everyone can agree alchemy plays a major role in book, let's move on to something YOU had previously touched on....and that would be the DNA and biology in the book. Equally important. It was kudos to you because you figured that out on your own without Pison mentioning it. Yes, we have known about the hints at DNA months ago. Along with telescopes, the golden mean, and more. This isn't news to us, however it was nice to see others (for awhile) see the same thing too...
I resent your
QUOTE(coeur noir @ Dec 16 2005, 07:38 PM) [snapback]979450[/snapback]
Yes, I'll make a wager with you that he wasn't leading you on. And I would win.
No, you wouldn't. I have pms he sent that contradict with what you're saying.
QUOTE
I SAID alchemy was related and very IMPORTANT.
You said step away from it. If this is what you meant, say what you mean, mean what you say. There are so many nuances to the english language. Specificity on a forum is imperative.
QUOTE
It was kudos to you because you figured that out on your own without Pison mentioning it.
There has been nothing stopping Pison from posting his ideas on his own thread. In fact, we openly encouraged him with questions, and asking him to post his information.
Yet several times I received pm's from him and he did not post any of his material at those times. This seemed very suspicious to me, as one pm invited me to help with his book, yet there was no information coming from him on the thread.
What do you want me to do? Continue to feel 'used' by someone claiming to use mine and Yelekiah's material in a book, with no input or comments from Pison??
Yet several times I received pm's from him and he did not post any of his material at those times. This seemed very suspicious to me, as one pm invited me to help with his book, yet there was no information coming from him on the thread.
What do you want me to do? Continue to feel 'used' by someone claiming to use mine and Yelekiah's material in a book, with no input or comments from Pison??
QUOTE(Rainbow Rowan @ Dec 16 2005, 07:55 PM) [snapback]979478[/snapback]
What do you want me to do? Continue to feel 'used' by someone claiming to use mine and Yelekiah's material in a book, with no input or comments from Pison??
Amen!
edit: Put yourself in our shoes. We post all this info, and he posts stupid lyrics. wtf...
PS-Manyard sucks.
QUOTE
Now leave alchemy alone for a second and go back to biology and DNA....see what you find there.
for a second....meaning, not permanently...as in come back to it later. I'm sorry you took this to mean abandon forever.
However, an arguement over semantics at this point is just silly.
QUOTE(coeur noir @ Dec 16 2005, 08:00 PM) [snapback]979487[/snapback]
abandon forever.
That's because I already discussed DNA (and I'm not discussing it further). Voynich, I thought, was an alchemical text, which is related to all that. If Pison already has all the answers, why the hell would he ask me?
If he's "cracked" it, as he brags about all the time, why would he pm me about anything at all?
Why would I ask you?
Because I wanted your help. This is not done.
If we want to write a book, how smart would it be to show all our cards here in public, then go to writing. Not very.
If you, or Rowan are interested in writing the book with me, great. I know you two are intelligent. I am not playing a game with anyone. That was my wife posting, as I just got home. Besides, she is a better writer than I, and makes fewer typos.
If you are not interested in writing the book with me, fine. Just let me know and I'll throw the idea out the window and post everything I know now....here. The book is not for profit, it is for PROTECTION of the ideas and the ones behind those ideas. I feel you two could add to this very much.
But, put yourself in my shoes. If you knew some of the answers to the Voynich, would you come out in public and display them, knowing the importance behind said ideas?
*parks the hell-on-wheels in the thread...and I am not here to play the insult game*
Because I wanted your help. This is not done.
If we want to write a book, how smart would it be to show all our cards here in public, then go to writing. Not very.
If you, or Rowan are interested in writing the book with me, great. I know you two are intelligent. I am not playing a game with anyone. That was my wife posting, as I just got home. Besides, she is a better writer than I, and makes fewer typos.
If you are not interested in writing the book with me, fine. Just let me know and I'll throw the idea out the window and post everything I know now....here. The book is not for profit, it is for PROTECTION of the ideas and the ones behind those ideas. I feel you two could add to this very much.
But, put yourself in my shoes. If you knew some of the answers to the Voynich, would you come out in public and display them, knowing the importance behind said ideas?
*parks the hell-on-wheels in the thread...and I am not here to play the insult game*
QUOTE(coeur noir @ Dec 17 2005, 05:46 AM) [snapback]979010[/snapback]
Soooo, obviously alchemy is an important componant of this book. Any speculations as to why? Or what the author(s) were trying to illustrate by injecting alchemy as one of the main characters?
Why not just ask your own husband that question? Oh, and while you are at it, please ask him to put the answer into the thread he created and bragged about knowing the secrets to...
QUOTE(coeur noir @ Dec 17 2005, 09:22 AM) [snapback]979330[/snapback]
No actually I am NOT Pison, I am his wife.
As for sending the manuscript anonymously to Yale, that's not going to happen. He was venting, angry because they wouldn't listen. He is however, serious about wanting to publish something on this. And he is also serious about the contact at CNN (however, being a news producer myself, I doubt it will get coverage without something being published first)
Pison isn't nor was he ever leading any of you on.
And as for the ideas generated on these pages, they are good ones and relevent to the "whole" package.
If I have come across as rude or as playing the devil's advocate, I apologize, I was simply enjoying witnessing the wheels turn.
And my questions were meant to have you probe even deeper into your own findings.
It wasn't about stealing ideas, or any sort of nonsense like that...
Now leave alchemy alone for a second and go back to biology and DNA....see what you find there.
We have to dissect these things carefully, from the astronomical to the biological to the mathmatical and so on and so forth....after the different parts are uncovered and examined, a whole new idea can be formed as to what the heck this book is about.
He should just post his own answers about all these things. We are not his workers or quiz-show attendants.
QUOTE(Pison @ Dec 17 2005, 09:52 AM) [snapback]979373[/snapback]
I am not leading anyone on.
Dead serious.
One has to be patient.
I started this thread to post MY ideas, all the other posting is distracting.
THEN POST YOUR IDEAS!!
QUOTE(coeur noir @ Dec 17 2005, 11:00 AM) [snapback]979487[/snapback]
for a second....meaning, not permanently...as in come back to it later. I'm sorry you took this to mean abandon forever.
However, an arguement over semantics at this point is just silly.
Too late now...
QUOTE(Yelekiah @ Dec 17 2005, 01:57 AM) [snapback]979484[/snapback]
Amen!
edit: Put yourself in our shoes. We post all this info, and he posts stupid lyrics. wtf...
PS-Manyard sucks.
Hmmm.....suddenly I am thinking differently.
Do you see me doing this at all?
Why, Pison, did you ask me to put in my input when you were starting this thread? I asked you at the time to put your input in too and not just pictures and vague details, and I felt that was a condition of me helping you.
If you wanted to protect your information then I cannot understand why you started this thread.
If you wanted to protect your information then I cannot understand why you started this thread.
QUOTE(Pison @ Dec 13 2005, 07:35 PM) [snapback]974070[/snapback]
I just got off the phone with Robert Babcock, the head of Beineke Library at Yale. They are NOT interested in what I know about the Voynich.
In fact, he told me to put what I know out on a website and go about "solving" the manuscript that way.
Basically..."Go and put your ideas out in public, and have them take your ideas and run with them"
So here ya go...Would you like to know how to solve parts of the Voynich?
I believe there are SEVEN ways to "decode" the Voynich. I am prepared to show everyone at least four of those ways.
Of course, someone will then steal my ideas, but who gives a f***, huh? Yale will not listen to you either. They charge $40 per request for a copy of the Voynich, and they get around 100 requests per month. That's over $30,000 per year. THIS is why they do NOT want to Voynich "solved", because the money will stop coming in, the library will stop getting it's montly number of visitors.........money, money, money.
why do you need to pay $40 to the library for a copy when you can get the thing for free off the web? and of course your not worried about the money are you? you just want the world to know the big secret....lol
http://www.voynich.net/images.html
Here we go.
QUOTE(Pison @ Dec 16 2005, 08:14 PM) [snapback]979509[/snapback]
Because I wanted your help. This is not done.
That contradicts with you saying that it was "cracked", Pison.
QUOTE
If we want to write a book, how smart would it be to show all our cards here in public, then go to writing. Not very.
I hope you're not insulting yourself.
QUOTE
If you, or Rowan are interested in writing the book with me, great.
I don't know about Ro, but I'm not.
QUOTE
it is for PROTECTION of the ideas and the ones behind those ideas.
Why then would you want to send it to Yale as anonymous?
QUOTE
Do you see me doing this at all?
One word: duh.
You do not have emotions, and weight options?
I was pissed at Yale, and I wanted to throw my ideas away.
The reason I wanted help is because I have not "cracked" the Voynich completely.
The reason I wanted help is because I have not "cracked" the Voynich completely.
Which is it, Pison?
First you say you want to send it in anonymously, then you say you want to write it down on a public forum.
Then you flip-flop by saying you want to protect your ideas. WTF.
Make up your mind. Do you not see the contradictions?
Oh yea, anger. But I thought it was pretty obvious.
First you say you want to send it in anonymously, then you say you want to write it down on a public forum.
Then you flip-flop by saying you want to protect your ideas. WTF.
Make up your mind. Do you not see the contradictions?
QUOTE
You do not have emotions
Oh yea, anger. But I thought it was pretty obvious.
We'll see how much you understand then.
I would like to stick with this specific page:
The center of the "spiral" is considered 13.
Any idea why?
(I need to find some links...)
I would like to stick with this specific page:
The center of the "spiral" is considered 13.
Any idea why?
(I need to find some links...)
QUOTE(Pison @ Dec 16 2005, 08:34 PM) [snapback]979545[/snapback]
We'll see how much you understand then.
Challenging me would have worked when I was seven. Once again, no contribution on your part. Typical of the actions of people when they are confronted with their own hypocrisy and ignorance. They rely on others like sycophants. Have a nice life, Pison.
edit: Ro pmed me. She doesn't want to help you with the book either.
....
QUOTE(Pison @ Dec 16 2005, 08:43 PM) [snapback]979555[/snapback]
Anyone wanna help write a book?
No offense, but after all that we wrote, only an idiot would want to help you write this book.
You should have explained your motives from the beginning, and not saying that you wanted it on a public forum, like you told me. And who can trust that you would give this person (who desires to help you) credit?
...
QUOTE
You didn't say if you are familiar with that Hebrew image.
There you go again. I guess you'll never know.
So, you aren't?
Anyone else familar with that image?
What about the one I just posted (trust me, I have more)
Anyone else familar with that image?
What about the one I just posted (trust me, I have more)
Hmmm....that looks like a cell in the center of that image, too.
I hear crickets....
(crickets chirp)
(crickets chirp)
Exactly.
You are acting like a child.
You are acting like a child.
no he isn't he is just witty
For a child I have a lot more bluntness, intelligence, and input. Impressive! For a child, I daresay I'm a lot better than you are on many levels. I also have *loyalty* to my friends. I don't try to *profit* off of them.
edit: ty, BM!
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