Most Christians believe that the Jews follow only the Old Testament of the Holy Bible and reject the New Testament. The apparent truth is their "real bible" is The Talmud. The Jewish book "The Mizbeach" states that "there is nothing superior to the 'Holy Talmud'.
The Talmud is made of of 63 books and is often printed in about 18 large volumes. The Talmud was written by Rabbinical sages between the years 200 AD and 500 AD.

The Talmud holds that only Jews are true human beings and Gentiles are the "goyim" who are on the level with cattle and other animals. The following are shocking but exact quotes from the various books of "The Talmud."

Can i get some verification on these please?

Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim (Gentiles) is like killing a wild animal."

Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best ofthe Gentiles should be killed. "

Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."

Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."

Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."

Sanhedrin 105ab: "Jesus fornicated with his jackass."

Gittin 57a: "Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in hot semen. Christians are boiled in dung."

Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."

Zohar 1,160a: "Jews must always try to deceive Christians."

Hilkkoth Akum X I: "Do not save Gentiles in danger of death."

Kilkhoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Gentiles."

Choschen Ham (156,5 Hagah): "The Jew is allowed to go to the Akum (Gentile), lead him on, do business with him, to deceive him and take his money. For the wealth of the Akum is to be regarded as common property and belongs to the first who can get it."

Sotah, 12a: "The money of the truly righteous Jew is more precious to them even than their own bodies."

I've just been reading into the Talmud out of sheer interest and im confused? What books do the Jewish people read and abide by? Is it the Old Testament or the Talmud? If the Talmud what makes it any better than the OT? Some of these words are rather scary.

lol

Anyway Gideon should be able to anwser your questions but like most believers would say did you just nitpick? Maybe you should read those lines in context of the book and it probably makes sence. I highly doubt that. Superrior human beings my ass.

But lol Jesus fornicated with his Jackass

Ahhh thats kinda rude but yeah kinda amusing too. Im waiting for Gideons reply and stance on the Talmud- i'm pretty sure ive seen him quote this book before.

I was not raised as a jew and have never studied talmud. I have, however studied about talmud, and have had many a delightful conversation with those who have studied it. I will explain: the Jewish religion, unlike the xian, is based on freedom of thought. The talmud and midrash record centuries of debate between extremely well-learned rabbis. One is expected, however ridiculous it may seem to an xian, to make up one's mind which to follow, and to pick and chose what feels right to you. I am honored, I guess, that you thought of me, but I am neither a biblical nor a talmudic scholar.

btw, none of these is more ridiculous than the "synagogue of satan" comment in revelations. considering the treatment of the jews by xians, from emperor theodosius on, i think all these comments, although probably mistranslations, are justified. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

I think we should add, Gideon, that the Talmud, while remaining true in its literary sense, is no more followed as a religious society than are the laws within Judges in a modern Christian society. I don't think women are exempted from entering a church or considered unclean at any time of the month. The nature of religions adapt to changing times and so it is with the Talmud and we could just as easily cite God's command to bash the heads of babies against stones.

Hey Gideon.

Well thanks for the response im always keen on learning and reading of different texts and faiths. Even though you werent raised a Jew i still wanted to know your opinion on the book in itself? I also wanted to give it a comparisant to the New Testament- how is it any better or believable to follow the Talmud than it is to follow the New Testament? If the Jewish was based on freedom of thought then why if you become a Christian are you betraying YHVH? I've always believed that the 3 main faiths follow the same Abrahamic God...If Judaism gave people choices- why is becoming a Christian or a member of another faith not one of them? Besides no ones wants to be Gods "traitor" do they? Seems narrow to me.

Jesus was born a jew- why would they write about him having sex with a donkey?

My personal take? I feel that I can read the Tanach for myself and form my own opinions, thank you. I don't care for the new testament, the book of mormon, the koran, or what I've seen of the talmud. they are really not much different. Unlike you (unitarian), most xians claim that Yeshu was god. this is pure idolatry. I was not raised with any religion. to me, only logic can be applied. If the nt or the talmud or the koran, etc., disagrees with the tanach, then the earlier text is correct. I draw my own conclusions. and btw, the tanach is very clear on idolatry. worship of anyone outside of yhvh is idolatry.muslims agree to the same thing. "allah" is arabic for hebrew "el", so the two faiths are much closer to each other than modern paulist xianity.

Also, there are two versions of the Talmud. The Babylonian and the Jerusalem. But, yeah, like Gideon said already, the books are just the collections of the debates the Rabbis had on certain teachings. Some of the opinions are really extreme and some are outrageous! Nonetheless, they did help the Jewish people to adapt to the changing times.

I...didn't know hell was like that.

Feed'em bacon til they yell,
send them all to kosher h*ll,

I didn't know that dung could boil...


and boiling semen... *twitches* That's enough to make me sick to my stomach...

What I want to know is...whose semen is it?

Republicans?

(Oooh I went there!) XD

Ok seriously... I donno.. I don't wanna know...

I've heard of the Talmud although I am less educated on Christianity, Judaism and Islam than I am in other religions. Some of these quotes, though, are so ridiculous and amusing that I can't help but comment.


This is amusing and at the same time shows terrible discrimination.


I have stressed and fought over and over again in the Sexual Immorality thread about an objective view of such things and I stress the same objective view on this. It is not my opinion, though, and I question: Why would anyone ever want to do such a thing? What can be gained from having sexual intercourse with a little girl?


Amen?


I can't imagine nor want to imagine this. For seemingly strictly guided people, it's hard to believe anyone but a radical could have thought this up.

Its very Amusing yet distubing in some cases. but oh well every religon has it ups and downs

So next time a Jew quotes the Talmud to me, all I need do is say they are only scholarly opinions and not to be taken with a grain of salt.

Cool

Regards, PA

Same can be said about the bible as well

True, but the Bible claims infalibility, does the Talmud do so?

that is, hands down, the best ancient insult i have ever read.
a bit crude, but still, creative.

Get a copy, read it and find out. X)

you are probably thinking of the midrash, which is claimed to be oral tradition passed down from moshe rabbenu, and only written down hundreds of years later. very different from the talmud. yes the midrash is considered pretty much "gospel", forgive the expression. the talmud is not, necessarily. big difference. if you read exodus, supposedly all the jewish people heard god speak to moses directly. if you didn't catch this, read it again.

Hey Gid.

Thanks for your reply. As you said most of the holy scriptures seem to have similar things in them and its good for all to have opinions of their own. Yes you are right i agree that Jesus was never God. I personally find it silly and Jesus would not want to be held up to such a high level, he was very important...yet the man with the plan was God himself. Yes having a muslim father i totally understand their strong stance on worshipping none but YHVH. I personally think the 3 great faiths should work harder at sticking together- same tree different branch as i like to say.

As I recall the tract about "having intercourse with a girl of three years old" was part of a discussion on the proper age to concider a person an adult and legally bound to the laws of the Torah. Imagine a room packed full of lawyers debating on how old a person should be before they are eligable to face the death penalty in a murder case. (I'm sorry. That's an ugly picture. I hope the MODS will over look that one).

About the little girl; I could be wrong about that. It's been a long time.

Early Jewish mystisism is not for the faint of heart. One of the things that is said of the Talmud is that if you think that you understand it, you don't.

You misunderstand. I was asking a genuine question. Thanks for answering the question anyhow, but I hadn't misunderstood anything. I was just curious.

Regards, PA

I've had 12 years of Hebrew school and numerous college courses on Jewish Studies, as well as undergrad and graduate study of comparative religions and cultures.

A couple of good web sites that provide accurate and user-friendly information:
http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/index.html
http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/short.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...d_&_mishna.html

One obvious (yet too often misapplied) aspect to always keep in mind concerning these texts... (The Bible, Koran, Torah, Talmud, et cetera...) is that they were all written in a completely different cultural, social, political, and religious context than we can genuinely imagine.

Just think about how people will view the NAFTA Agreement, the Equal Rights Amendment, or the Patriot Act 2000 years from now.

HA! I love that! That's so funny!
Jesus with a jackass?!
Christains boiled in dung?!
I like this book......but noone should live by it.

I have practiced Judaism but not under the Talmud. Now, I find this book a disgrace under ANY sector of religion, however, what it does serve as is yet further proof of Jesus (Yeshua's) existence and the fact that a certain sect of Jews DID in fact have hatred and vile attitudes towards Him. People wouldn't have such strong opinons about someone that didn't exist. The quite opposite is true.

so the fact that the early xians hated mithra so much that they tried to wipe all traces of his worship means mithras was a real person?cool

I have to disagree here. They weren't writing vile things about Mithra, like getting boiled in semen. If there is any document that disagrees with what I just said, I'll admit that I'm wrong.

Misquotes From Talmud:

Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."
Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."
Sanhedrin 59a: "A Goy (Gentile) who pries into the law (Talmud) is guilty of death."
Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything with a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."
Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is of three years of age."
Sanhedrin 105ab: "Jesus fornicated with his jackass."
Gittin 57a: "Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in semen. Christians are boiled in dung."
Schabouth Hag. 6b: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."
Zohar 1,160a: "Jews must always try to deceive Christians."
Hilkkoth Akum Z1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."
Choschen Ham 388, 15: "If it be proven that someone has given the money of israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of this earth."
Choschen Ham 266, 1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely if by so doing Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."


These misquotes and fabrications come straight from the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan web site. Some cannot be explained simply because the quotes do not exist in the Talmud. Some references are to a book that does not exist in Talmud or any Jewish literature. Others are taken seriously out of context, or add words or thoughts that are not in the original.

1. Sanhedrin 59a says nothing about murdering the heathen, nor does it include the phrase “wild animal.”

2. Abodah Zara 26b is not even part of the Talmud. It is a commentary to the Talmud, and this passage is taken seriously out of context. What the original says is that all the Canaanites were to be killed under the conquest of Canaan under Joshua. We even find in the Bible that Joshua was to conquer the land completely, killing all the inhabitants. (Joshua 9:24)

3. Sanhedrin 59a does say, recording a conversation between two teachers, that one of them zealously said that a heathen who looks into the Law (the Torah, not the Talmud) should be guilty of death. It goes on to say, however, that the other teacher destroyed his argument, showing instead that a heathen who pries into the Law becomes as a High Priest. So this quote is taken out of context, just like the presidential candidates take their opponent’s comments out of context for their own ads.

4. Libbre David 37 is a pure fabrication. There is no such tractate in Talmud, nor any such book or portion of a book in all of Jewish literature.

5. Yebhamoth 11b says nothing about intercourse with a little girl. Actually, the reference should be Ketaboth 11b, concerning betrothals. A footnote to that passage says that if a man were to have intercourse with a three year old she should not suffer the consequences of loss of virginity when she become eligible for marriage. The comment is actually a defense of victim’s rights. The man who did such thing would be punished, but the victim shouldn’t be.

6. Sanhedrin 105a talks about Balaam (of talking donkey fame), and does claim that he fornicated with his ass (presumably a Jenny Ass, not a jackass). It says absolutely nothing about Jesus. In fact, nothing is said about Jesus in the entire Talmud, much of which was written before Jesus was born or during his lifetime.

7. Gittin 57a tells of Balaam and some Jewish heretics suffering such fates. It does not mention Jesus or Christians. The heretics mentioned were probably the Sadduccees.

8. Shabouth Hag 6b doesn’t exist in the Talmud. I could find any such reference, except in lists similar to the one you sent me.

9. Zohar 1, 160a and Hilkoth Akum are not part of Talmud. There is no such reference as Zohar 1, 160a. (Zohar references don’t have letters in them, like Talmud references do.) I could find no passage in Zohar about deceiving Christians. In fact, the Zohar considered any deceit (no matter to whom it was directed) to be wrong.

10. Choschen Ham 388, 15 and 266,1 are not part of Talmud. There is no such book or tractate as Choschen Ham. It may be an abbreviation of Choshen HaMishpat, which is not part of Talmud. If it is Choshen HaMishpat that is intended the passages in question are taken seriously out of context. The first one actually says that if a Jew owes a debt to a non-Jew then he must repay it, but if the non-Jew would not accept repayment he might use deceit to give the money back.

The compilers of this list clearly had an agenda to push, and were not hesitant to lie and misrepresent in order to push it. It is similar to lists other groups have put forth to try and discredit the Jews or others, and end up showing themselves to be foolish instead.

Thank you for clearing all that up. Give yourself a pat on the back.

Mklsgl- Well there ya go. I originally made this post out of curiousity i wanted to know if these were indeed accurate writings of the Talmud as i found them rather extreme.Great job on the clear up.!

You're all certainly welcome. Of note is that what I posted was only a partial listing, and only misquotes from the Talmud. It is a truly frightening thought that so much false information concerning humanity is readily available and easily accessible, fueling hate groups and creating misperception.

welcome to the Internet.

nice work mklsgl

Damn Jesus and his ass was not true.

Although I've never seriously studied talmud, i never for a moment thought that was in there. the only type of thing i ever read there was like: "it is not shabbos until you see the third star rise." or, spread rock salt across the tablecloth and roll the meat in it until the blood is removed." or "the woman's elbows must be completely covered. " or "the matzoh must not bake more thasn 8 minutes."and jews don't believe in hell or damnation, anyway.

Thank you mklsgl

Though this does present to me another issue. Are the quotes commonly used for the Bible any less or more accurate? The skeptics that get info from ex-Christian.net or wherever they go, are they any more right?

This just proves again (to me at least) the need to go and read the source material ourselves, and not rely on a website for our information.

Regards, PA

Yet its good that i didnt jump to conclusions and say that these quotes were indeed correct, i came into the board posted it in hopes that someone with more knowledge than i could prove or debunk these claims, and so they did.

This is an example of why when you put information from a site you should cite the source. Many times people have quoted stuff about Paganism and when I got back to their source I find a hate site. I hate the KKK, may they all come back as worms!

I am glad you cleared this up, mklsgl. I hope everyone who saw the first posting comes back and sees your post.

I just googled Talmud. Most of the sites that came up on the first page were Jewish sites, one was a complete on line Talmud. One was a hate site for white pride group. I checked it out by hitting HOME on the bottom of the page on which they had a lot of the quotes used by Ramster. Lovely bunch who seem to hate everybody and think they are intelligent because they are white.
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/

Going a little farther on my google page I found a site by a Jewish man, David S. Maddison, who was responding the white pride site. He has researched where the white pride quotes came from.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/

This little bit of research on my part took me all of about 15 minutes.
This leaves me with one question. Who in the world are you hanging with, ramster?

Dear "Something Like Laughter,"

The internet is just one, recent source. I'm really talking about what can be found in magazines and newspapers in any public library, newsstand or bookstore. For instance, look at the classified ads in the back of an issue of "Soldier of Fortune" from 1981 and you'll find dozens of listings for hate-group materials/literature. And, to put things truly in perspective, DW Griffith's Birth of a Nation had box office numbers, that when adjusted to today's, rival Titanic, Star Wars, or any top-grossing film made in the last 35 years. It's still argued that no other film or medium of media (aside from the "Sacred Texts," themselves) will ever have the influential impact than that of Birth of a Nation.