Zeus
Dec 20 2005, 10:33 AM
My first ever in depth research project surrounded why the west wanted for so long to erase African links to egypt. It was Napoleon who was so shocked that the negro had any link to a glorious past and from then, the west has always been doctoring huge chunks of Egyptian history, only for it to be finaly corrected in the seventies. To my dismay, the west has found ways to even suppres the truth on those pyramids, despite the numerous agents of archeologists...... Still our TV's and schools insit against new evidence that the pyramids are only 5000 years old. Evidence exists suggesting them to be older than 25,000 years old. Due to the levels of flood watermargins the stonewaork is imprinted with over the eons.
The fact that Egypt held a democracy for a very very long time, despite the many times of Persian invasions, famine and national friction. The democracy remained fair for a very long time. Until finally weaker rulers allowed the decline of Egyptian thinking and the constant invasions to eventually win over them. The Egyptians taxed only 10%, everyone worked as a whole country as we have seen countries work to protect themselves during the second world war..... The Egyptians were always that organized. Even their concept of slavery is a lot different to our one today and was turned into a nasty affair by the Persians. Studying those times you will see how much of a great hub of knowledge Egypt was for the world up to the UK and the Far East, as many travelled to Egypt to learn and adapt. Our Democracy began there. theirs was the first ever democracy since Atlantis. Again, our democracies are based on theirs. But with so much of history missing, we need to dig deep to understand the true wholistic values of democracy where we only follow a fraction of their values today. The pyramids may be very old, the cultures always changed and evolved....but democracy continued whenever it was used with wisdom....Humanity have no need to war....children unhindered live well together..... True, humanity only needs courage to take back their countries....if ever....
sure, we all know about historians
QUOTE
HISTORY is bunk written as propaganda by winners. Probably most dates within the last 2,000 years are as accurate as one can expect. Jewish history really starts about 2,000 BC with Abraham, and at least they used a calender borrowed from Sumer which started around 3,760 BC being the start of Jewish recorded time. Egyptian recorded history starts at 3,000 BC. It is possible to match Jewish and Egyptian events, but only if one assumes they started at the same time and an Egyptian year is 2/3 of a Jewish one. Thus the modern line of the Egyptian tourist industry and Egyptian government is their dates are correct and that modern carbon dating is wrong. The fact that the Sphinx has water marks indicating that it existed about 10,000 BC is not accepted. The Jews are not much better as all their events occurred within recorded time or so they claim. Thus while there is geological evidence that Noah's flood occurred about 11,000 BC, the date cannot be true as that is outside Jewish recorded time. The moral of all this is be highly suspicious of all dates BC.
THE ASTROLOGICAL CALENDER is harder to tamper with, but works in units of about 2160 years, being the time taken to move through an astrological star house as observed by astronomy. Today if one expects total World destruction and wishes to leave a dated reminder to future generations, then an appropriate inscription would indicate the Pisces Aquarius changeover. If one believes that the Sphinx has the head of a Lion then it was built in the age of Leo, and if it has the head of a bull it was built in the age of Taurus. However if one finds a tablet dated with the sign of a fish, it may be up to 2,000 years old, or be 26,000 years old or even 52,000 years old.
http://www.viking-z.org/d22e.htmwhat i am saying is..... all we know now, is of a history of constan waring... humanity are redundant to the so called facts that people are unable to live together..... But egyptian history, where modern democracy was modelled, held peace and posterity for the majority for very long stretches of time.....
for example, in 2000 years, internal strife leaves a string of western revolutions and unheavals, mainly because the governments gave only as the public demands or revolts..... In many egyptian PRIMITIVE dynasties, there was never any internal strife beyond famine....in africa in general long before egypt, wars involved no killing.... hence the concepts of battle and slavery in egypt were so different to the rest of the world.....and always the people held the same vision enough to remarkably defeat any invasion with effortless ease..... looking at the governments of today....they only give if they have to.....only with public pressure does anything ever happen... probably this is why in 2000 years, no one country has existed continuously throughout in the west.....
muddyfrog
Dec 22 2005, 11:17 AM
QUOTE(ericraven2003 @ Dec 21 2005, 04:29 PM) [snapback]986594[/snapback]
Exactly.

I enjoy my life. Pathetic seems to fit you better.
You either feel insulted by someone on the interent calling you pathetic... (Not likely)
OR
well you can guess...
That last post shows that you react without thinking eric. look at your post... Now look at all the posts in this topic...
Bush definately needs to be impeached. For instance recently I have been showing my mom evidence of 9/11 not being as said. Turns out she didn't even see it on the news at the time... hehe. She didnt know till I got home that day.
So a few days ago she says to me "guess what"
"what?"
"I was talking with _______ (a friend of hers who had family members in the wtc) and she told me about these people that warned her family about 9/11 the day before," she said.
"who?" I asked.
She couldn't remeber so I said "NSA?"
"Yea! how did you know?"
I didn't know of course, though I did have my reasons. I don't have any great connections or anything, but I do have a few friends who know a little bit. You meet a lot of military people when you are joining the military. When You go to MEPS you stay in a hotel the night before so that they can wake us up at 400 lol. Anyway I shared a room with a "re-enlist-er." He was a former green beret who wanted to switch out and work on computers and networks. Anyway he told me some sites to look at, got my AKO acount set up, a few other things. He didn't open my eyes like he expected for I already believed what he was saying, but the verification was nice.I'll have OSUT at KNOX in about a month. And we'll leave it at that.
A few conclusions I have made.
1) The media will not say anything too positive. Forget right, left, liberal, and conservative. Oh wait now I'm confused you say "liberal media" And Bush is a huge liberal... Should he not then get great news stories and covering up of bad things??
By your logic of course.
The way I see it media has one purpose and that is to dumb you down period. I'll put it like this: You can exorcise to get stronger physically. You can meditate to strengthen connections in your brain, thickening the gray matter in the cortex. Not forming new cells but making new connections between cells. Has been shown to raise your IQ.(look up some meditation studies especially from harvard medical school) Now what happens when "the world" is negative? quotation marks meaning: as seen through the media. You can trust that humans are very adaptable. And that is what they must do, adapt to this horrible place

There is a reason for that M 17+ sign on viloent video games. Or like when your 10 year old bro starts jump kicking you after seeing a bruce lee movie. For adults I think the effect takes a lot longer, but don't most people watch the news every day?
2) the media portrays the war in a very incorrect way. All the troops will tell you this people. I will too---heck I might end up there soon if not Syria or Iran. While the reasons (not the real ones) for war have nothing to do with Iraq or the Iraqi people the war is going on right now. Mostly while we are asleep (if they are operating in the day time). What happens if we leave right this second? The world becomes a very unstable place. Hussein was a bad guy, but he held the country together. So until they have a government and basic needs plus security then we cannot leave without doing the world an even greater injustice than starting the war in the first place.
3) Why should we leave when it is not america that we hate? America may be doomed in your eyes scoob, but the idea of America will not perish so easily.
4) Stop and think! <---I know what you are thinking right now after reading that because I think of such things. Shall I tell you what you would already know is true if you only looked at yourself? Ok right now you are thinking of your comeback. Why is it a comeback? Because before you finished reading what I wrote you decided to defeat me in a forum battle ... If you will. (I never say if you will

) And now you are thinking "Wrong, this is what I belive I only care about my car/finanscial stability." Don't you are about the constitution?
guess what... that is where they have you, your money.
(you can take they to be a paranoid made up people who can travel through time and turn invisible, but it is not the way it is meant here.I just don't really have a power structure down in my head at the moment. There seem to be more than one "group" and some have very parallel motives.)
You have to have it or you die. Right? Why should money have power over you? A walking talking form of highly evolved life... we are talking about paper here.
Now is that really all you care about? What is truly pathetic is not admitting to ones own feelings/ not reacting when they know they should.
and that is what I think.
P.S. I think that quote under your avitar is somewhat right Eric. To be more correct it should read: democrats have a low IQ, republicans have a low IQ, Anyone who submits to a groups ideals and steriotypes has a low IQ.
Did I just insult everybody? I hope not... for everyones sake.
-MuddyFrog
mklsgl
Dec 26 2005, 07:12 PM
In his essay entitled “Radical Thought,” Jean Baudrillard begins the sixth paragraph with the following statement: “Say: I am real, this is real, the world is real, and nobody laughs. But say: this is a simulacrum, you are only a simulacrum, this war is a simulacrum, and everybody bursts out laughing”(2). Although the war he refers to is the Gulf War and here we are years later, it certainly applies to the world as we know it right now. This new rhetoric, the Postmodernist Baudrillardian Rhetoric, seems to unravel all things we have felt familiar, recognized as the authentic, and deconstructs Reality down to a singularity: Simulation.
Fictive reality is now more real than than the realness of Actuality.
Our conception of reality has been modified by three revolutions. The first occurred in Renaissance Period painting. Leonardo Da Vinci and his contemporaries rendered their particular representations using three-dimensional methods such as foreshortening, chiaroscuro, sfumato, and the vanishing point, creating a realism never seen before. There were only originals, no copies. Simulation then existed as a truly unique representation of the artist’s imagination illustrated upon a medium. The second change happened with the invention of the camera in the early 19th-century. The original and the copy were born, and as a result, so was the distinction between reality and representation of reality. The final revolution of reality conception is a product of the 20th-century. It is the Simulacra: a copy that takes the place of the real. Think of Mickey Mouse. Copies replace originals. No originals, only copies. No corresponding objects. Image became reality. The difference between fiction and reality completely eliminated. Things don’t need to be, events don’t need to happen--our values are wholly restructured. We now experience simulation instead of reality. Today, all mediums of media are the means of simulation and Simulacra.
Question reality; question existence, the world, the universe; question everything, even the question itself. “I think, therefore I am” no longer works. Descartes is a myth. “I think that I think--therefore I am?” is Baudrillard’s assertion. The simulacrum--imagine the real and realize the imagined--the possibility that all things are not what they appear to be, that they never were, that everything we thought was real and everything we still think is real might actually be something we cannot grasp.
On his European Graduate School faculty home page, Baudrillard posts:
It is more difficult for us to imagine the real, History, the depth of time, or three-dimensional space, just as before it was difficult from our real world perspective to imagine a virtual universe or the fourth-dimension. The Simulacra will be ahead of us everywhere. The simulacrum is never that which conceals the truth - it is the truth which conceals that there is none. Since the world is on a delusional course, we must adopt a delusional standpoint towards the world. (http://www.egs.edu/faculty/jeanbaudrillard.html)
Can we comprehend a world on a “delusional course,” and one that bears no truth? In Baudrillard’s sense, that is the ultimate question--the question that cannot be answered, for the answer--that which we aspire to, that which we quest for, that which we feel an inexhaustible conviction to possess, may very well be Simulacra. Using Baudrillard’s logic, the answer must be Simulacra. Consider Ecclesiastes 7:24, “What exists is beyond reach and unfathomable: who can master it?” It stands to reason that we must alter our perspective exponentially if we are to maintain focus upon an expononentially altering world. And furthermore, in Ecclesiastes 8:17, “...that man is not able to discover the work which is done under the sun, for the sake of which a man labors to search but does not find it: even though a wise man thinks he knows, he shall not be able to find it.” Baudrillard’s rhetoric reflects this age-old ideology in his argument from “The Precession of Simulacra,” that “The Simulacra will be ahead of us everywhere. The simulacrum is never that which conceals the truth - it is the truth which conceals that there is none”(1). Baudrillard is saying, unabashedly, that what we seek more so than anything else--the Ultimate Truth, the Reality of All Things, the Meaning of Life--has been and will always remain unobtainable because its destination is an undefinable realm of Abstract Darkness and lacks any apparent and familiar semblance of onus probandi.
This is a new rhetoric: Something no other rhetorician had done previously. Not new as in opposing Aristotle and Plato; Vico; Burke and Perelman; or Richards and McLuhan, but new as in asserting claims to which the burden of proof, the Traditional and Established means of evidence, are applied to what is the most extraordinary abstraction-- simulation of Reality and Existence. “This thought consists in putting into place a form, a matrix of illusion and disillusion, a strange attracting force, so that a seduced reality will be able to spontaneously feed on it”(Vital Illusion 33). This “seduced reality” is a constructed simulation of a reality, what Baudrillard calls “Hyperreality.” Baudrillard explains in Simulacra and Simulation: “Abstraction today is no longer that of the map, the double, the mirror or the concept. Simulation is no longer of a territory, a referential being or a substance. It is the generation by models of a real without origin or reality: a hyperreal”(1) .
It is this hyperreality which has become the new and terrible American Dream. And it is a lucid dream, subject to selective mutation by the dreamer(s). As long as we remain in it, trust in our sensory reception eludes us. Therefore, we must go beyond the traditional and established modes of evidence and proofs if we are to comprehend and accept simulation and Simulacra as the the fundamental premise of all Postmodern Rhetoric.
Sigmund Freud said, in Civilization and Its Discontents, that: “Life, as we find it, is too hard for us; it brings us too many pains, disappointments and impossible tasks. In order to bear it we cannot dispense with palliative measures. We cannot do without auxiliary constructions” (23). What this means to me, and, it appears, to Baudrillard, is that it is because we no other alternative.
Those “palliative measures” are the things we do to alleviate our inability to rationalize radical ideas that challenge our innate faculties, the most difficult of which is conceiving of that which cannot be sensed but stands to reason because the its manifestations comprise our physical world. And the “auxiliary constructions” are the simulation and simulacrum--what the poet and Grateful Dead lyricist, Robert Hunter, called the “Hypnocrasy”(“St. Dilbert,” 1992), which he coined shortly after coming under the influence of Baudrillardian Rhetoric and philosophy. The Hypnocrasy was “so profoundly hidden that you could never understand it,” Hunter wrote, then questioned: “Is Hypnocrasy not the aspiration to know what it is? I used to believe that nothing could be known as a fact which was not arbitrary and simply observable to be so--except G-d and Love. Lost was I in my own despair of ever knowing anything for sure through the evidence of my perceptions, then I turned on the TV and in the midst of watching CNN’s Gulf War coverage and it came to me--there it was, the Hypnocrasy, right there on my TV screen.” Hunter is referring to the virtual war we all viewed and accepted as Truth and Reality.
Television is the perfect perfect medium for simulation and Simulacra, especially news broadcasts (local and network), reality shows (“Survivor,” “The Real World”), news magazines (“20/20,” “60 Minutes,” “Dateline”), cable tv documentary channels (Discovery, History Channel), and those Sunday morning round-table talk shows (“Face the Nation,” “Meet the Press”), all of which purport to deliver Truth and Reality when in fact the only thing they deliver is a tightly produced and slanted simulation of what they want want us to think is Truth and Reality. Baudrillard wrote two controversial essays on the Gulf War in 1995, “The Gulf War Did Not Take Place,” and, “The Gulf War Will not Take Place.” In “The Gulf Did Not Take Place, he exclaims:
The presumption of information and the media here doubles the political arrogance of the Western Empire. All those journalists who set themselves up as bearers of the universal conscience, all those presenters who set themselves up as strategists, all the while overwhelming us with a flood of useless images. Emotional blackmail. Fraud. We would do better to discuss the threshold of mental tolerance for simulated information, which we can say that it was deliberately crossed (76).
We accept simulation and Simulacra because it is easier. The world as we know it is a deliberate man-made construction: everything from ancient history to Disneyland to self-identity to religion, politics, and America--all are imaginary fabrications of things that in their Real state may not align with Western, Traditional, and Establishment ideology, may not fit in the order and explanation of all things, therefore the simulation and Simulacra of Truth and Reality replaces the Actualized and Unadulterated. “The realist logic which lives on the illusion is the final result” (67).
“The world is my idea,” (445) exclaims Arthur Schopenhauer, the philosopher of disillusion, in The World as Will and Idea, and he could not have been any more poignantly correct. What he means is that although each of us perceives a similar, familiar, and common world but not one which is exactly the same for each individual. Today, there is no such thing as Reality, only our singular perceptions of what we call reality that has been manipulated and modified. Jean Baudrillard, in Simulacra and Simulation, argues this very point, and moreover, that reality is a constant construct either constructed for you or by you. Combining the assertions of these two profound observers, we arrive at a disturbing conclusion: the sublime nature, the sublime truth of reality does not exist. For, we cannot observe something without changing it. This is the primary logic behind simulation and Simulacra. Consider the many filters and augmentations words, beliefs, and images go through before they are observed or divulged. It’s all contrived production. By the time it arrives at the eye or the ear, authorities, producers, directors, editors, reporters, and the like have altered, consciously or unconsciously, the Actuality to Hyperreality.
For how many years have we been force-fed simulations of fabricated history? I was taught that Columbus discovered America, that “all men are created equal,” that we live in a democracy, that History is a factual reality; when, to the contrary, in “Vivisecting the 90s,” Baudrillard argues, “because history continues, just as stories do and our history may be just this, a long rewriting process, prolonged ad infinitum, strewn with glosses/counter-glosses ... you read History as the re-actualisation of a past in which we all are accusers and defenders, as well as complicitous. This where one ends up in a real or hyper-real situation, that of the history of historical narratives, of historiography which do pose a historical question about the re-invention of past history through the historian's discourse, a discourse which, by definition is a re-construction.
In a way, that reconstruction is also necessarily artificial”(5). “It’s all just a story, something you can spin into a plot with memorable characters and a few good lines and maybe even something approximating captivating. Aristotle said there is more truth in poetry than history. Storytelling as literature must then be truer than history”(7), Trinh T. Minh-Ha writes in Woman, Native, Other. Espousing a parallel, Baudrillardian postmodernist rhetoric, Minh-Ha continues: “If we rely on history to tell us what happened at a specific time and place, we can rely on the story to tell us not only what might have happened, but also what is happening at an unspecified time and place. But why Truth at all? Why this battle for Truth on behalf of Truth?”(38) Minh-Ha and Baudrillard both question the role of History in our incessant compulsion to determine our identity--self and collective--with the Truth and those events which comprise History. We want to believe in the truthfulness and actuality of historical fact because it provides us a concrete identification and consubstantiation, something of consequence and veracity to which we adhere in order to fulfill the desire of intrinsic self-importance and diminish the anxiety of being insignificant.
Simulation and Simulacra have always been the condition of all things. Minh-Ha conveys, “When history separated itself from story, it started indulging in accumulation and facts. Or it thought it could” (39). That indulgence became the simulation of a history of accumulation and facts that are nothing but Simulacra, and its purpose was persuasion of the masses to delineate an order between the dominant culture and the Other. The dominant culture, European Caucasians, interposed their necessity to superiority through absolute control of information. Only recently has that changed, and it’s only a relative change at that.
Simulacrum and simulation, facing a world that is unintelligible and problematic, our task is clear: we must make that world even more unintelligible, even more enigmatic. Illusion is the general rule of the universe; reality is but an exception. If the same were identical to the same, we would be faced with an absolute reality, with the unconditional truth of things. But absolute truth is the other name for Abstract Darkness. In Baudrillard’s philosophy, his Postmodern Rhetoric distinguishes itself emphatically by enshrouding the absolute, sublime, and true nature of all things in an Abstract Darkness. We cannot familiarize Abstract Darkness, so instead we accept, without question, simulation and simulacrum.
Baudrillard’s Postmodernist Rhetoric is Aristotelian in many ways. Baudrillard certainly employs invention and discovery; logos, ethos, and pathos; dialectics, enthymemes, artistic and inartistic proofs; deliberative, forensic, and epideictic persuasions: what differentiates Baudrillard’s rhetoric is how he situates Truth. The teleology of Truth, of the Real, to Baudrillard reaches a degree of abstraction that challenges the limits of human conception. We cannot deny the logic of simulation and simulacrum, it is apparent everywhere, from the Senate floor to Madison Avenue to MSNBC to “Oprah.” Jean Baudrillard is a well-respected author, teacher, and theorist. His discourses search for truth, demonstrate truth, consider possibility, and address human action.
We now live, paraphrasing Baudrillard’s claims in “The Precession of Simulacra,” in a culture of the hyperreal. Our lives are shaped, indeed constituted, by symbols functioning without reference to tangible objects, individual identities, or biological needs, all of which have in every important sense ceased to exist. Only signifiers are in this essentially dematerialized universe. Mere Simulacra—the distant imitations of, or pure signs for, a lost and often already phony reality (the “country breakfast” at a shopping mall, the identical decor and uniforms worn by every waiter and waitress in a franchised “Fridays” restaurant)—combine and recombine in an apparent “free play.” Yet even the interactions of Simulacra are dictated by an irresistible dna-like social code that fosters commodification, the perpetual motion of a humanly pointless but systemically self-sustaining capitalism (16).
Such a world, such a fantasyland, beguiles us while exercising a surreptitious repression. To be sure, it frees us from the tiresome myths of individuality, originality, and authenticity. “All the great humanist criteria of values,” Baudrillard exults, “all the values of a civilization of moral, aesthetic, and practical judgment, vanish in our system of images and signs” (“Precession” 8). But it also mires us in a homogeneous static state controlled by and for the illusion itself. The greater, more mysterious, more impetuous portion of our being, our non-pragmatic ambivalence, goes unacknowledged and untapped. Ontologically, we count for nothing. The system, by means of its all-powerful code— expressed especially through advertising, television, and the news media —steadily generates the arbitrary and controlling models from which all that we experience and do is derived; we are defined and coerced by endless, falsely unique replications similar to the serial imagery of Andy Warhol.
In sum, Baudrillard’s Postmodernist Rhetoric, that of simulation and simulacrum, not only derives its formation and vitality from intense observation and interpretation, it as well draws further invention and discovery through that ongoing inner conversation between our self and our other self, those times when our minds are free to wander and generate new ideas from new and different perspectives--yet not entirely far-afield from where we started.
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mklsgl
Dec 26 2005, 07:17 PM
People have to come to trust memory over history. Memory, like fire, is radiant and immutable while history serves only those who seek to control it, those who douse the flame of memory in order to put out the dangerous fire of truth. Beware of these men for they are dangerous themselves and unwise. Their false history is written in the blood of those who might remember and of those who seek the truth.
Every moment of every day our minds are bombarded with words and thoughts and images that enter into our constant ongoing self and other-self inner conversation, that not-so-silent interior discussion assessing and evaluating all things surrounding us, affecting us, resulting in a greater awareness in some form or fashion. Our inherent desire for awareness comes from a greater desire to control one’s life or to have some semblance of feeling in control of our lives, to gain a satisfactory sense of stability and security. We cling to ideas that appeal to our conceptions of what is the better good for one’s self and family, one’s community, and for the entire population of the planet. Or do we?
Seems that we are a blighted society after all. Seems we have alienated and isolated ourselves so distantly from true nature of things that we live by the power of manipulative suggestions, misinformed thoughts, simulated experiences, perverted images, and deliberate campaigns of demented rhetoric. Seems our perceptions of things has gone awry when compared to the reality and truth. Seems we believe society saves us from corruption, yet it is a corrupt society that forms the lens through which we make value judgments. Seems we think the truth should be communicated, yet communication of the essential is controlled by those with the means to supply information. Seems we’ve become hypocritical automatons, believing what we think is the truth because someone persuasive enough has taken advantage of our obliviousness, when if we were to use our critical skills, methodically, logically, and intellectually, we would be as intelligent as we falsely believe we are.
The power of suggestion, be it through words, sounds, or images, has never been more abundant than it is today. Persuasive rhetoric overwhelms our classrooms, the internet, what we see on television, what we hear on the radio, and what we read in newspapers and magazines. These appeals persuade not through the give-and-take of argument and debate, but through the manipulation of symbols and of our most basic human emotions. For better or worse, ours is an age of false consciousness.
So, how does it happen? Why do we ‘buy the myths?’ Why are we often not entirely dissuaded by evidence pointing to the contrary? Because the evidence pointing to the contrary is not entirely dissuasive? What happens when simplistic, emotional appeals are endlessly repeated? In our society, simple syllogisms are substituted for analysis, things are known by their labels, and our heart's desire dictates what we shall see. We know that no agent or agency has jurisdiction over the truth, yet finding the truth during war-time seems a futile impossibility. Are we really hypocritical automatons believing we are smart when in fact we are false consciousness sponges? I am beginning to understand that the majority of this society fits this description. Which of the following is more true: 1) Most people seek to control life's events in order to secure a more positive, productive, and free existence; or, 2) Most people can barely manage to control their own self-centered, myopic existence.
It is within this self-centered, myopic existence that false consciousness flourishes.
Those in power need to identify with the public, and the public needs to identify with the cause--again, the hegemony of dominance. For the better good of all, we need to assess and evaluate the information provided to us instinctively. We need to unravel the messages being sent, critically and comprehensively. We need to get “there” from “here” and it needs to start sooner rather than later.