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Sunofone
here is a brief summary of the malfeasances of the bush administration and the resistance growing by leaps and bounds--please add any i have omitted
user posted image
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George W. Bush's Impeachable Offenses
by Ivan Eland

Several recent presidents could have been impeached for selected unconstitutional or illegal actions during their presidencies. But the sitting president, George W. Bush, may win the prize for committing the most impeachable offenses of any recent president.

Yet when one thinks of bad behavior leading down the road to possible impeachment, Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon come to mind first. Although Bill Clinton was impeached for having sex with an intern and then lying about it to a grand jury, a better case could have been made to impeach him for conducting an unconstitutional war over Kosovo without approval by Congress. The articles of Nixon’s impeachment centered on his use of illegal surveillance methods against political opponents and obstruction of justice and contempt of Congress in covering it up. His launching of an unconstitutional war in Cambodia without congressional approval was equally serious, but was left out of the articles. Curiously, Lyndon Johnson, Nixon’s predecessor, also used illegal surveillance activities against political rivals, but was not impeached.

Ronald Reagan, who is now a celebrated past president and icon of conservatives, justifiably feared impeachment for the Iran-Contra affair. He knowingly violated the Arms Export Control Act, a criminal statute, and sold arms to radical supporters of terrorists. His administration also unconstitutionally violated a congressional prohibition on providing money and support to the Nicaraguan Contra fighters. The Reagan administration’s violation of the Boland Amendment stuck a knife in the heart of the checks and balances system in the U.S. Constitution by circumventing Congress’s most important power—the appropriation of public monies.

George W. Bush is following in the footsteps of his predecessors, but may have left more tracks. For starters, invading another country on false pretenses is grounds for impeachment. Also, the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution essentially says that the people have the right to be secure against unreasonable government searches and seizures and that no search warrants shall be issued without probable cause that a crime has been committed. And the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) requires that warrants for national security wiretaps be authorized by the secret FISA court. The law says that it is a crime for government officials to conduct electronic surveillance outside the exclusive purviews of that law or the criminal wiretap statute. President Bush’s authorization of the monitoring of Americans’ e-mails and phone calls by the National Security Agency (NSA) without even the minimal protection of FISA court warrants is clearly unconstitutional and illegal. Executive searches without judicial review violate the unique checks and balances that the nation’s founders created in the U.S. government and are a considerable threat to American liberty.
CONT...
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Censure motion introduced in House over Iraq, torture

Larisa Alexandrovna


Ranking House Judiciary Democrat Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) has introduced a motion to censure President Bush and Vice President Cheney for providing misleading information to Congress in advance of the Iraq war, failing to respond to written questions and potential violations of international law, RAW STORY has learned.

The resolutions were quietly introduced Sunday evening along with a third resolution (HR 635) to create a Select Committee to investigate the administration’s intent to go to war prior to congressional authorization. The committee would also be charged with examining manipulation of pre-war intelligence, thwarting Congressional oversight and retaliatory attacks against critics. As part of this resolution, House Judiciary Democrats seek also to explore violations of international law as pertaining to detainee abuse and torture of prisoners of war.

RAW STORY acquired copies of the resolutions Tuesday. To view the resolution to create investigative body to determine if offenses are impeachable, click here; the resolution to censure President George W. Bush, click here; and the resolution to censure Vice President Dick Cheney,click here
LINK
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Portions of a statement/fact sheet he's released:


“The President's shocking admission that he authorized the National Security Agency to spy on American citizens, without going to a court and in violation of the Constitution and laws passed by Congress, further demonstrates the urgent need for these protections. The President believes that he has the power to override the laws that Congress has passed. This is not how our democratic system of government works. The President does not get to pick and choose which laws he wants to follow. He is a president, not a king.

“On behalf of all Americans who believe in our constitutional system of government, I call on this Administration to stop this program immediately and to fully cooperate with congressional inquiries and investigations. We have had enough of an Administration that puts itself above the law and the Constitution.”


...


* FISA makes it a crime, punishable by up to five years in prison, to conduct electronic surveillance except as provided for by statute. The only defense is for law government agents engaged in official duties conducting “surveillance authorized by and conducted pursuant to a search warrant or court order.” [50 U.S.C. § 1809]

* Congress has specifically stated, in statute, that the criminal wiretap statute and FISA “shall be the exclusive means by which electronic surveillance . . . and the interception of domestic wire, oral, and electronic communications may be conducted.” [18 U.S.C. § 2518(f)]

* The target of a FISA wiretap is never given notice that he or she was subject to surveillance, unless the evidence obtained through the electronic surveillance is ultimately used against the target in a criminal trial.

The president is a criminal.
LINK
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Lewis Calls For Bush Impeachment
ATLANTA (AP) -- U.S. Representative John Lewis said in a radio interview on Monday that President Bush should be impeached if he broke the law in authorizing spying on Americans.

The Democratic congressman from Georgia told WAOK-AM that he would sign a bill of impeachment if one was drawn up and that the House of Representatives should consider such a move.

Lewis is among several Democrats who have voiced discontent with Sunday night's television speech, where Bush asked Americans to continue to support the Iraq War. Lewis is the first major House figure to suggest impeaching Bush.

Lewis said --quote-- "It's a very serious charge, but he violated the law.The president should abide by the law. He deliberately, systematically violated the law. He is not King, he is president."
LINK
Lord Umbarger
So interested in impeachment? Where were you when clinton sold missile guidance systems to the Chinese?

This is simply more left wing dribble. I'm done here.
Snowball
QUOTE(Lord Umbarger @ Dec 21 2005, 07:40 AM) [snapback]985524[/snapback]

This is simply more left wing dribble.


In what way? Please explain. Are you implying that the statements above cannot be trusted because they are politically motivated?
aquatus1
More along the lines that world leaders, given their position and responsibilities, are not held to the same exact limits that civilians are because civilian decisions, in general, do not impact global policy. All world leaders do things their advisors groan about. Trying to get a leader thrown out because they began a war is an exercise in futility (Who the devil could agree if a war was justified or not?). Trying to get them thrown out for violating their own people is another matter altogether. If Bush is impeached, for the spying business, I would shrug and probably agree he deserved it.
Malruhn
The current wire-tap fiasco is legal, as deliniated in a law signed by President Jimmy Carter in 1978 and used by Carter, Reagan and Clinton (and now GWB). Try again.

The wiretaps themselves were ONLY on international calls - and ONLY conducted on individuals identified as potential agents or supporters of al Quaida. This wasn't done to listen to Aunt Martha talk about apple pie recipes, but on already suspected international terrorists... which is specifically ALLOWED by law.

The deal reported by RAWStory has some bits that are pretty interesting. First off, RAWStory is nearly as far left a "news" source as you can get, and its reputation as a "news" source is highly suspect for a couple reasons. First off, it uses a LOT of "anonymous" sources, with no attribution, therefore no way of checking on stories. Secondly, like this piece shows, there is a lot of spin involved in telling the story.

The President does NOT need congressional approval to have our troops engage in combat... ONLY to declare an official "WAR". Two things here - we have not had a declared "WAR" since WWII, and congress DID approve combat operations in Iraq. Was bad intelligence used? Definately. Was it done on purpose? We don't know yet. Was it criminal? We don't know that yet either.

This story is ONLY rhetorical. This guy can CALL for a censure of anyone he wants... but whether he GETS it or not is another matter entirely. This happens all the time. There were over ONE HUNDRED movements made to censure Clinton by republicans while he was in office... and not one stuck. I honestly believe that this call will never make the floor.

The call for impeachment is off-base for the reasons I showed above. The taps are legal - and there won't be an impeachment for doing LEGAL things.

Find another windmill to tilt towards!
AKUMA166
QUOTE(dnb420 @ Dec 21 2005, 03:29 PM) [snapback]985928[/snapback]

Another ignorant Republican. He says "I'm done here." because he knows he cannot hold up any argument defending Bush. Sometimes I wonder how stupid people can be such are yourself Lord Umbarger, but he I understand, your a republican. Clinton never violated the rights of thousands of Americans, nor did he lead us to a war led by illusion and personal agenda's.

George W. Bush is the worst president the United States has ever had. Wake up and smell the coffee idiot.


hahhaha LOL i love it when you guys argue thumbsup.gif but i agree bush is a moran
xstortionist
if you dont' like what bush is doing then get the hell out of united states of america. Go move to another country...we don't need your kind here. No matter who the president is these world issues will always be a problem for america...and why? BECAUSE WE SPEND 455 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR ON MILITARY!!! What country doens't ask for our help when they need it the most? So look you can say you want to impeach bush and cheney...but I'd love to see you question them in the supreme court and get humiliated by your beliefs and your view points. I think most americans forget our hertiage of why we escaped religious prosecution and came here to plymouth rock. You impeachers disgust me.
Nxt2Hvn
QUOTE
Another ignorant Republican. He says "I'm done here." because he knows he cannot hold up any argument defending Bush.


Yet you are showing your ignorance by refering to someone as ignorant... just because they do not share your views.... so sad really... yes.gif
xstortionist
Nxt2Hvn don't worry dood he doesn't know what he is talking about. He just doesn't undestand how the world turns yet.
The Skeptic Eric Raven
QUOTE(dnb420 @ Dec 21 2005, 09:29 AM) [snapback]985928[/snapback]


George W. Bush is the worst president the United States has ever had. Wake up and smell the coffee idiot.

Boy. I bet your mother is proud of you verbal skills.All presidents have had problems during their terms. Bush is not the best, but he is not the devil either.
Stellar
QUOTE


This is simply more left wing dribble. I'm done here.


What does someone's position on the political spectrum have to do with anything? Are you implying that the left can not be right?
iaapac
QUOTE(xstortionist @ Dec 21 2005, 03:41 PM) [snapback]986210[/snapback]

if you dont' like what bush is doing then get the hell out of united states of america. Go move to another country...we don't need your kind here. No matter who the president is these world issues will always be a problem for america...and why? BECAUSE WE SPEND 455 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR ON MILITARY!!! What country doens't ask for our help when they need it the most? So look you can say you want to impeach bush and cheney...but I'd love to see you question them in the supreme court and get humiliated by your beliefs and your view points. I think most americans forget our hertiage of why we escaped religious prosecution and came here to plymouth rock. You impeachers disgust me.





Okay, I think Bush is an idiot and I left the United States so by your criteria, my opinion is valid. First of all, document when and where Iraquis asked for help to get rid of Hussein. I mean DIRECT requests, not inuendos or probabilities. And it appears to me that you have forgotten your heritage. America was not largely founded because of religious persecution. The majority of the people finally populating the nation were serfs, wealthy persons ready to exploit a new land and simply those who wanted a new beginning to their lives. But they were survivors and the formed a legacy that should be respected. And it is people like you who are the first to shout about those who sacrificed and died to protect the freedoms and rights of Americans. Today, young men are dying to form rights and liberties for people in Iraq and while they are doing so, their own rights are being diluted, tarnished and stolen by a corrupt administration. And in spite of your heritage, those like you are willing to sit silently by and watch it happen . . . pretend it isn't happening . . . . ignore that it's happening . . . . and the day will come when your type will be the first to ask, "My God, what happened?"
Sunofone
QUOTE(xstortionist @ Dec 21 2005, 12:11 PM) [snapback]986210[/snapback]

if you dont' like what bush is doing then get the hell out of united states of america. Go move to another country...we don't need your kind here. No matter who the president is these world issues will always be a problem for america...and why? BECAUSE WE SPEND 455 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR ON MILITARY!!! What country doens't ask for our help when they need it the most? So look you can say you want to impeach bush and cheney...but I'd love to see you question them in the supreme court and get humiliated by your beliefs and your view points. I think most americans forget our hertiage of why we escaped religious prosecution and came here to plymouth rock. You impeachers disgust me.

this country was founded as a secular sovereign nation independant from the rule of royalty-- the religious persecution was just the method of the hour concerning serfdom-- question them in a supreme court? about what? that is the most ignorant argument i have heard-- whether or not the iraq war was legitamate or whether they were responsible for the outing of plame needs no questioning-- the evidence stands alone and is conclusive-- or should it be for the patriot act or the spying? its all unconstitutional and bush is just a public servant of the constitution to imply that he is unquestionable or above the law is ridiculous-- wkae up-- 9/11 was about weapon sales,oil and political capital
signman
HA HA HA[attachmentid=21852]Americans are sooo silly!
signman
QUOTE(xstortionist @ Dec 21 2005, 06:11 PM) [snapback]986210[/snapback]

if you dont' like what bush is doing then get the hell out of united states of america. Go move to another country...we don't need your kind here. No matter who the president is these world issues will always be a problem for america...and why? BECAUSE WE SPEND 455 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR ON MILITARY!!! What country doens't ask for our help when they need it the most? So look you can say you want to impeach bush and cheney...but I'd love to see you question them in the supreme court and get humiliated by your beliefs and your view points. I think most americans forget our hertiage of why we escaped religious prosecution and came here to plymouth rock. You impeachers disgust me.
my friend, please read BURY MY HEART AT WOUNDED KNEE, and then tell me about your "heritage"
QuantumE
If everyone would stop watching the news, stop reading newspapers and stupid interent articles on the Iraq operation, and go ask someone who has served in Iraq, you will find out the real picture. Rise above the liberal propaganda and get a mind of your own. The problem that alot of people have is that they have no idea what's going on in Iraq. They watch the news and think they have the right to debate whats what on the war. You dont know anything about it, so how can you comment on it? These days people think cause they get info from the media their an expert on everything.
Sunofone
VOTE NOW

Do you believe President Bush's actions justify impeachment? * 39821 responses

Yes, between the secret spying, the deceptions leading to war and more, there is plenty to justify putting him on trial.
88%

No, like any president, he has made a few missteps, but nothing approaching "high crimes and misdemeanors."
4%

No, the man has done absolutely nothing wrong. Impeachment would just be a political lynching.
7%

I don't know.
1%
The Nameless One
forever.
pbarosso
we shouldnt tap phones? you people make me sick. maybe you are the terrorists, and we need to get rid of you? tell me its not ok to tap phones when maybe we would have seen 9-11 coming if we did so......and please we did not see it coming.

i agree, i read an atricle in time about a squad or platoon or something, where they did not want to withdraw because they wanted to finish this thing.

there is no honest politician,if you think that bush is so bad, look at some other presidents. the major difference is that now we all have the internet and can converse about anything and research anything. so many people think bush is bad, those people in my experience are the liberals who are outspoken. remember the last election? who won? not that he was the best man in america for the job, but he won and that teaches us a lesson. that there are many more conservative people out there who are not outspoken. they dont stand on their soapboxes and armchairs and fuss. so maybe you think i represent a minority view, but i think that you have not considered the past election, and i think that you should.

i personally think we out to spit off some area in nevada, and all the liberals who think everything is ok, because it doesnt hurt anybodycan go and live with atrocious las vegas, and its garbage. all those people who think that abortion is ok, and gays are normal, but animal testing is wrong, and we shouldnt tap phones?


my bro is an officer in the air force and he says people just dont know about anything. they think because they watch the news they are experts.

armchair warriors and politicians dont solve anything. just make it worse.

what we need is a draft. a permanent draft so all the wussies can go and learn how to survive in the real world. you gotta do what you gotta do. its a knitty gritty place.

the usa? its easy to live here, so accepting of everything. go out there and see for yourself me thinks(here comes everyones ten cents no doubt)
BazookaTooth
I don't know.
1%

That was probably Bush that voted with that answer.
Mad Manfred
Wow, look at that...88%.

Though I have no doubt that most of those that voted did it for sh**s and giggles like me.

IMPEACH BUSH AND CHEWY!!!
bboy
QUOTE(AKUMA166 @ Dec 21 2005, 09:16 AM) [snapback]985973[/snapback]

hahhaha LOL i love it when you guys argue thumbsup.gif but i agree bush is a moran




ohmy.gif laugh.gif


I think Bush could even spell moron correctly.
Sunofone
update!! even though the percentage dropped by one percent it represents an additional 50,000 votes for impeachment without an increase in the percentage against
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Live Vote
Do you believe President Bush's actions justify impeachment?
* 81295 responses

Yes, between the secret spying, the deceptions leading to war and more, there is plenty to justify putting him on trial.
87%

No, like any president, he has made a few missteps, but nothing approaching "high crimes and misdemeanors."
4%

No, the man has done absolutely nothing wrong. Impeachment would just be a political lynching.
7%

I don't know.
1%
Celumnaz
That's a really good indicator, cross-section of the ideoloy of those that rely on pmsnbc, and maybe a slight indicator on how easy it would be to rig online voting. Preaching to the choir. Blind leading blind. The "How could he win? Nobody *I* know voted for him!".

Ask this poll on dailykoz.com and you'd probably get similar. Ask it on conservativesRus.com and it'd be flipside. (Sad, I don't really know any conservative sites. sad.gif )
QuantumE
LOL, I bet you the 88% of the people who voted thought that what he was doing was illegal lol. For the last time they are tapping OVERSEAS phone conversations with SUSPECTIBLE TERRORISTS! Even if they wanted to (which they are not! stop watching the news) do you really think they got the money to just go around tapping everyones phones in america and have the man power to listen to everyones convos??? Use your brains. Stop getting brainwashed by liberal media.
signman
don't trust the left wing liberal media!
iaapac

" we shouldnt tap phones? you people make me sick. maybe you are the terrorists, and we need to get rid of you? "
This is the mentality most objectionable. If a segment of the people want to preserve their rights to privacy then they are subversive. Suddenly they become the terrorists because they simply believe in civil rights and the guarantees of the Constitution. People who endorse unwarranted intrusions upon that privacy become nothing more than the Bush whores who will support anything, believe anything and follow anyone.


"there is no honest politician,if you think that bush is so bad, look at some other presidents. the major difference is that now we all have the internet and can converse about anything and research anything. so many people think bush is bad, those people in my experience are the liberals who are outspoken. remember the last election? who won? not that he was the best man in america for the job, but he won and that teaches us a lesson. that there are many more conservative people out there who are not outspoken. they dont stand on their soapboxes and armchairs and fuss. so maybe you think i represent a minority view, but i think that you have not considered the past election, and i think that you should."

Whether or not politicians are honest or if other presidents were corrupt is not the issue. None of them are the president NOW. And if we are to agree on anything it is that conservatives are silent. They are silent when sovereign nations are invaded without justifyable cause. They remain silent when it is discovered that a war has begun and young men have died and it was all based on administration lies. They are silent as their rights are diluted and corrupted. They are silent as people are detained in jails for years without charges and others are kept in torture camps. They are silent and in their silence they describe themselves as being far apart from those who have the courage to speak our and to take action against those actions, no matter how high the source, that bring the real danger to the American society.


"i personally think we out to spit off some area in nevada, and all the liberals who think everything is ok, because it doesnt hurt anybodycan go and live with atrocious las vegas, and its garbage. all those people who think that abortion is ok, and gays are normal, but animal testing is wrong, and we shouldnt tap phones?"

In the name of a true democracy the conservative voice cries out and damns the citizens of Las Vegas, those who believe in women's rights and those who different sexual preferences. No wonder tapping a phone is permissible with that mentality. Probably an new inquisition would be permissible or whatever action that expresses such warpred viewpoints. In the White House these postures are justified by "talking with God." At some point conservatives should get a dose of reality and start talking with people.


"what we need is a draft. a permanent draft so all the wussies can go and learn how to survive in the real world. you gotta do what you gotta do. its a knitty gritty place."

Yes, you do what you gotta do. You invade Afghanistan and search for Bin Laden and promise the world that Afghanistan will be a better place because of your invasion. Several thousand deaths later, most of them innocent civilians, Afghanistan is no different now than it was before the attack by the U.S. Outside of Kabul the Taliban rules with the same heavy hand as it always has. The "new government" is stale mated and is in a state of political confusion that cannot be remedied. So what do you "gotta do" next? Invade Iraq, of course! Certainly it was because there were so many Iraquis on the planes on 9/11, right? Or the weapons of mass destruction, yes, that was it! Or maybe it was "He tried to kill my daddy." Oh yes, you do what you gotta do.


"the usa? its easy to live here, so accepting of everything"

Sure, it's easy to live in the U.S. It's the bastion of freedom and one of the "have" nations of the world. That is why it is a world leader in drug useage as people try to escape the realities of life. That is why it has a mounting crime rate than ranks with the worst nations. That is why discrimination has never been resolved. That is why violence is so prevelent that schools are no longer safe. The list is endless but it's easy to live in the U.S. It is not easy to live anywhere. You need to recognize the life you have and understand that whatever qualities it possesses are given to you by the guarantees of the founding fathers and they did not approve of government intruding into private lives, they did not approve of a government forcing its political viewpoints onto other nations by force. They did not design this nation to be the police agency of the world. And they did not dream of a populace believing they were superior to anyone.
Caayn
Wow, um, being in the Air Force myself, people like pbarosso just need to shut their mouths. People fight and die everyday to allow others to express their opinions and be free. That is the point in freedom. YOU need to go and live in the middle of Nevada so that people like me don't find your stupid a$$.
signman
QUOTE(pbarosso @ Dec 22 2005, 08:18 AM) [snapback]987506[/snapback]

we shouldnt tap phones? you people make me sick. maybe you are the terrorists, and we need to get rid of you? tell me its not ok to tap phones when maybe we would have seen 9-11 coming if we did so......and please we did not see it coming.

i agree, i read an atricle in time about a squad or platoon or something, where they did not want to withdraw because they wanted to finish this thing.

there is no honest politician,if you think that bush is so bad, look at some other presidents. the major difference is that now we all have the internet and can converse about anything and research anything. so many people think bush is bad, those people in my experience are the liberals who are outspoken. remember the last election? who won? not that he was the best man in america for the job, but he won and that teaches us a lesson. that there are many more conservative people out there who are not outspoken. they dont stand on their soapboxes and armchairs and fuss. so maybe you think i represent a minority view, but i think that you have not considered the past election, and i think that you should.

i personally think we out to spit off some area in nevada, and all the liberals who think everything is ok, because it doesnt hurt anybodycan go and live with atrocious las vegas, and its garbage. all those people who think that abortion is ok, and gays are normal, but animal testing is wrong, and we shouldnt tap phones?
my bro is an officer in the air force and he says people just dont know about anything. they think because they watch the news they are experts.

armchair warriors and politicians dont solve anything. just make it worse.

what we need is a draft. a permanent draft so all the wussies can go and learn how to survive in the real world. you gotta do what you gotta do. its a knitty gritty place.

the usa? its easy to live here, so accepting of everything. go out there and see for yourself me thinks(here comes everyones ten cents no doubt)

may we tap your phone? and while we're at it, let's tap your mind and see what kind of hateful thoughts are brewing. God help us all!
Snowball
QUOTE(Celumnaz @ Dec 22 2005, 07:19 PM) [snapback]988090[/snapback]

Ask this poll on dailykoz.com and you'd probably get similar. Ask it on conservativesRus.com and it'd be flipside. (Sad, I don't really know any conservative sites. sad.gif )


There's a fairly rabid bunch of neocons over at http://www.freeconservatives.com/ you can have a lot of fun rattling their cages, if that's your thing.
signman
QUOTE(Snowball @ Dec 23 2005, 09:13 AM) [snapback]989308[/snapback]

There's a fairly rabid bunch of neocons over at http://www.freeconservatives.com/ you can have a lot of fun rattling their cages, if that's your thing.
thanks, I was just over there and wow, what a bunch! sad thing is, these people believe everything the RIGHT tells them with no questions asked. even a so-called "liberal" like me will question the LEFT, democrats, the whole shebang. the world ain't black and white; there is a lot of grey...
Celumnaz
Hey thanks for that Snowball. Have got a couple more links from some other people since that post too. tongue.gif

Yeah, think sometime soon it'll be time for me to start picking on extreme conservatives again. Not yet though. Extreme liberalism is still ingrained in the culture. Until there's a huge culture shift the left is still more of a danger imo. The country, and it's politics, are still left. Getting closer to center. Another 12 years or so I'm hoping it will be too far right. Hating the right is so much easier to do. tongue.gif
QuantumE
I dont think it's getting through peoples heads, so Ill say it again: THEY ARE NOT TAPPING CIVILIAN'S TELEPHONES, THEY ARE TAPPING OVERSEAS PHONE CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN SUSPECITBLE TERRORISTS.
xstortionist
QUOTE(Sunofone @ Dec 22 2005, 12:04 AM) [snapback]986907[/snapback]

this country was founded as a secular sovereign nation independant from the rule of royalty-- the religious persecution was just the method of the hour concerning serfdom-- question them in a supreme court? about what? that is the most ignorant argument i have heard-- whether or not the iraq war was legitamate or whether they were responsible for the outing of plame needs no questioning-- the evidence stands alone and is conclusive-- or should it be for the patriot act or the spying? its all unconstitutional and bush is just a public servant of the constitution to imply that he is unquestionable or above the law is ridiculous-- wkae up-- 9/11 was about weapon sales,oil and political capital


you people are conspiracists....that all you are...how about you go to iraq like i was...and then perhaps you may understand where I am coming from. I've seen people die...I've killed...and there is a good reason for that....how about you move to iraq for a month and understand where im coming from. You think our government is corrupt? LMFAO...go to iraq and see that the whole damn country is corrupt...and not just iraq, their surrounding countries too....U just dont understand how they are living there...u haven't see kids on the streets not having parents, or family or friends...then they get swept up by some radicals and next week you see their body laying on the ground becaue they were issued a gernade to go blow up a convient store...yea thats right not american soldiers but a freakin convient store. This war is to help get iraq back up on their feat....Fossil Fuel will be ran out within 150 years....who cares about oil? Because if you didn't know we get most of our oil from south american countries.Seems like all you librals dont want us pumping oil out of our own grounds...but i bet u wouldn't mind us pumping out of another countries soil. Like i said go to iraq and experience what i have seen...and let me tell you something...the soldiers i have met that didn't want to be in iraq or didn't think we should be there....over 85% have died because they "SIGNED UP" for the military not expected the worst. Sorry but you people don't understand because you only see what the media protrays...and not what is really going on. You people disgust me.
Sunofone
QUOTE(xstortionist @ Dec 23 2005, 11:18 AM) [snapback]989764[/snapback]

you people are conspiracists....that all you are...how about you go to iraq like i was...and then perhaps you may understand where I am coming from. I've seen people die...I've killed...and there is a good reason for that...
You people disgust me.

your a fool and a murderer-- war is NOTHING but an elite tool of population control-- you need to step back and look at the big picture!-- weapons sales and the control of mineral resources is the only reason you murdered innocent lives-- you still believe oil is derived from fossils? that is the oldest conspiracy of them all-- Manufactured Scarcity
how does it feel to know you were puppeted by the british throne? bush is a globalist and hell bent on destroying america-- the truth is right in front of your eyes-- did you think the the cia never tortured anyone? of course it is an old tactic the only difference between then and now is that they are telling us what they are doing it as well as unconstitutionally tapping phones and outing cia operatives and waging war on false intelligence-- its not a secret-- the elite has decided to shift from an industrial progression to a technological one and the masses are being culled-- through vaccines and fake wars the global population is being reduced-- where is your alligence? with the bush administration or the constitution? they are NOT aligned and if you believe otherwise it is just "willful denial"
**********************************
also i must note here that quantum is way off and completely wrong-- you need to heed your own advice and put down the newspapers and quit watching fox or cnn
QUOTE

Conyers, others introduce resolution demanding surveillance probe

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John Conyers, Jr., (D - MI) ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee, and 26 other Congressmen today submitted a resolution of inquiry into warrantless wiretapping of citizens on U.S. soil.

The resolution would demand that Attorney General Gonzales turn over documents believed to be in his possession authorizing the National Security Agency to conduct warrantless electronic surveillance. It would also request documents detailing any legal recommendations regarding the order.

Deadline for the hand-over would be 14 days.
Conyers' office released the following statement:
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"Today I am introducing a Resolution of Inquiry requesting the Attorney General to transmit to Congress documents reflecting the legal justification for spying on American soil without judicial approval. I introduce this Resolution on behalf of myself and Mr. Berman, Mr. Boucher, Mr. Nadler, Mr. Scott of Virginia, Ms. Lofgren, Ms. Jackson Lee, Ms. Waters, Mr. Meehan, Mr. Delahunt, Mr. Wexler, Mr. Weiner, Mr. Schiff, Ms. Linda Sanchez, Mr. Van Hollen, Ms. Wasserman Schultz, Mr. Kennedy of Rhode Island, Mr. Doggett, Mr. McDermott, Mr. Filner, Mr. Markey, Ms. Schakowsky, Ms. Tauscher, Ms. Lee, Ms. McCollum, Mr. Udall of New Mexico and Mr. Holt.

"It is my hope that the Administration will voluntarily comply with this straightforward request, however, if they do not, this Resolution will require a vote in the Committee, and possibly the House floor so that the Members can go on record concerning whether this is an important enough issue to warrant Congressional oversight. I believe we simply cannot tolerate a situation where the Administration is both laying down and interpreting the law on its own accord, and not even sharing with the Members of Congress what the legal justification for such a program is.

"Last week we learned that the President has been using the National Security Agency to conduct surveillance involving U.S. citizens on U.S. soil, in apparent contravention of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. This week we learned that contrary to the President's assertions that the wiretapping included only foreign calls, some of the intercepted communications were conducted entirely within the United States. As a result of these disclosures, one member of the FISA Court, Judges James Robertson, resigned, and the presiding judge of the court has sought a classified briefing to address their concerns that the NSA program was illegal and may have been improperly used to gain further wiretaps from their court.

"These revelations raise some of the most serious legal and constitutional questions conceivable in our democracy - whether our own government is able to intercept our most private conversations without establishing to any independent party that such eavesdropping is in any way necessary or related to a possible crime.

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QuantumE
Lmao, I hardly call "raw story" a source. rolleyes.gif
JesseTheMutt
He wasn't supposed to be in office in the first place.I mean he wouldn't have if they wouldn't have bought him an election for his birthday.
Malruhn
When there are stories run in the MAINSTREAM press regarding the "unlimited" quantity of oil inside the earth (how do you get unlimited volume from a limiting vessel??), and not just being run from a single - repeat - SINGLE conspiracy theory story-source (note: I didn't say, "NEWS-source"), then I will put credence into the idea. Wait! Did I just say SINGLE source?? You betcha I did, as the two cites you copied

Story source? Well, let's look at the info you posted:
Freeman Dyson of Princeton University: Retired astrophysicist. He worked with SETI and SPACE stuff - NOT geology or earth sciences... so this is equivalent to getting Emeril to comment on the newest sports car.

The study by Russel Hemley has been destroyed by critics, as the components placed in the mix were established so the only likely outcome HAD to be methane. Kinda like putting all the stuff for a cake in a bowl and hitting the mixer... what can you possibly get BUT cake? His results are easy to prove - but they PROVE nothing. Even his paper said that all it did was show the POSSIBILITY of higher methane levels and possible other sources.

The "source" from Vialls regarding the Russian super-deep oil wells is laughable! No credible sources - over a year old with NOBODY else reporting that Russia was reducing their demand for imported oil. Tell me, if you had a crap economy, would you continue to buy things you didn't need?? As isolationist as Russia is, if they had as much oil - or a FRACTION of that oil - they wouldn't be importing it any more. This page talks about the long decline of the Russian oil reserves and their ability to produce. The only thing they have on their side are the hopes of being able to exploit the Siberian oil fields.

If you Google "Vietnamese White Tiger", you will get two pages of results - ALL COPIED FROM EACH OTHER. They are an oil producing nation, but the cost per barrel to produce has made it MUCH less than a money-making venture. This is the reason the US oil companies never spent much time there... why put money into something that won't produce money for many decades?

The source for "Bodra #3" and "Operation White Tiger" and all the other information? Mr. Vialls. Gosh... how did one guy get SO much information that is UNAVAILABLE to outside sources? Nobody else is finding any information on this to independantly confirm any of this. I wonder why. Want a conspiracy? Try the possibility that Mr. Vialls is making stuff up! Ooohhh, how evil! I particularly like his assertion that the only reason that Bodra #3 was "blown up" was that Mr. Vialls was on vacation at the time. Gee, I wonder what the accident rate is on oil drilling rigs and platforms. I bet there hasn't been an accident on an oil drilling site in CENTURIES!! Especially on something as ROUTINE as an experimental deep-drilling project! (do you smell my sarcasm, or do I have to be even more blatant?)

Then to consider that the most "damning" commentator Mr. Vialls could get is a senior petroleum industry figure from Venezuela. Gosh, to get info on Hamas, should we get a Jew? For an opinion on Apple, should we get Bill Gates? Just how biased can a person be before you don't consider him credible, Sonofone? Oh, as long as he supports your feelings of paranoia, it doesn't matter, I guess.
_________________________________

I read your rant at xstortionist above. Granted, I think he needs some Prozac, but your response was so far into the clouds as to almost make him sound credible! Sonofone, may I share a quote stolen from a friend of mine?

"Those who turn their swords into plowshares will tend the land for those who don't."
MID
QUOTE(Sunofone @ Dec 24 2005, 01:22 AM) [snapback]990892[/snapback]

your a fool and a murderer-- weapons sales and the control of mineral resources is the only reason you murdered innocent lives--



You can make your points, I should think, without calling a soldier who has been to war a murderer, and stating that he murdered innocent lives.

If you have never been to batlle, seen a man pointing a rifle at you with the intent to kill you, and if you have not been to the hell hole that is the Middle East and seen what is actually going on there, then you have no place saying such things to one who has.

In fact, even if you were there, you have no business calling soldiers murderers.

You can and should argue all you want, but to call someone something like that...utterly without foundation, is tragically comic, and at the same time stupid.

Fortunately, I am not a moderator on this forum. If I were, I would moderate your comments right out of here and censure you until you could be civil.
a_blue_fish
QUOTE(AKUMA166 @ Dec 21 2005, 09:16 AM) [snapback]985973[/snapback]

hahhaha LOL i love it when you guys argue thumbsup.gif but i agree bush is a moran


Oh my God! Kyo! I never would have thought I would find you here!

I'm joking. Kyo is a Japanese musician in the band Dir en grey. He misspelled moron as well.
Sunofone
QUOTE(Malruhn @ Dec 24 2005, 12:33 PM) [snapback]991594[/snapback]


"Those who turn their swords into plowshares will tend the land for those who don't."

in case you didnt notice i advocate the rights of the constitution! never will i put my gun down but i can assure you the only time i will raise it is when my home,family or land is threatened and since we dont travel the globe that means that it will surely be in my territory-- remember the right to bear arms stems from the constitutions right to protect my self not just from thieves or foreign invaders but from the government itself! as long as weapons sales benefit private corporations there will always be terrorists-- imo the only way to resolve it is to label any company that "creates" a bomb or gun with a higher caliber than 50 as terrorists-- war is wrong and murder can never be justified-- there is NOTHING that diplomacy or a small cell cant cure--
JesseTheMutt
You know what?I love the freedoms we used to have in this country.
iaapac
QUOTE(QuantumE @ Dec 23 2005, 02:37 PM) [snapback]989753[/snapback]

I dont think it's getting through peoples heads, so Ill say it again: THEY ARE NOT TAPPING CIVILIAN'S TELEPHONES, THEY ARE TAPPING OVERSEAS PHONE CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN SUSPECITBLE TERRORISTS.




You can say it all you want but it would be better to read the news. The latest report was that included in the wiretaps were former Congressmen, private citizens with no terrorist connections, etc. The power to investigate was clearly abused and no degree of denial can change it.
The Silver Thong
QUOTE(Sunofone @ Dec 24 2005, 06:36 PM) [snapback]992077[/snapback]

in case you didnt notice i advocate the rights of the constitution! never will i put my gun down but i can assure you the only time i will raise it is when my home,family or land is threatened and since we dont travel the globe that means that it will surely be in my territory-- remember the right to bear arms stems from the constitutions right to protect my self not just from thieves or foreign invaders but from the government itself! as long as weapons sales benefit private corporations there will always be terrorists-- imo the only way to resolve it is to label any company that "creates" a bomb or gun with a higher caliber than 50 as terrorists-- war is wrong and killing can never be justified-- there is NOTHING that diplomacy or a small cell cant cure--


This statement alone is so right that those who don't understand it should go back to humanitarian school.
The Silver Thong
QUOTE(xstortionist @ Dec 23 2005, 10:18 AM) [snapback]989764[/snapback]

you people are conspiracists....that all you are...how about you go to iraq like i was...and then perhaps you may understand where I am coming from. I've seen people die...I've killed...and there is a good reason for that....how about you move to iraq for a month and understand where im coming from. You think our government is corrupt? LMFAO...go to iraq and see that the whole damn country is corrupt...and not just iraq, their surrounding countries too....U just dont understand how they are living there...u haven't see kids on the streets not having parents, or family or friends...then they get swept up by some radicals and next week you see their body laying on the ground becaue they were issued a gernade to go blow up a convient store...yea thats right not american soldiers but a freakin convient store. This war is to help get iraq back up on their feat....Fossil Fuel will be ran out within 150 years....who cares about oil? Because if you didn't know we get most of our oil from south american countries.Seems like all you librals dont want us pumping oil out of our own grounds...but i bet u wouldn't mind us pumping out of another countries soil. Like i said go to iraq and experience what i have seen...and let me tell you something...the soldiers i have met that didn't want to be in iraq or didn't think we should be there....over 85% have died because they "SIGNED UP" for the military not expected the worst. Sorry but you people don't understand because you only see what the media protrays...and not what is really going on. You people disgust me.


let me get a spoon i have some nice jello for you,..................or is it really jello, where is that damn spoon, oh found it right under a copy of "believe what i tell you" provided by the goverments of the world.
JesseTheMutt
QUOTE(The Silver Thong @ Dec 24 2005, 09:25 PM) [snapback]992116[/snapback]

let me get a spoon i have some nice jello for you,..................or is it really jello, where is that damn spoon, oh found it right under a copy of "believe what i tell you" provided by the goverments of the world.


Yep.Has the government ever been truthful?Let me see..Hmm.They lied to the Native Americans as soon as they came over.That's lieing right from the start.Terrible way to start a country don't you think?Based on a lie.
Malruhn
QUOTE(Sunofone @ Dec 24 2005, 10:36 PM) [snapback]992077[/snapback]

in case you didnt notice i advocate the rights of the constitution! never will i put my gun down but i can assure you the only time i will raise it is when my home,family or land is threatened and since we dont travel the globe that means that it will surely be in my territory-- remember the right to bear arms stems from the constitutions right to protect my self not just from thieves or foreign invaders but from the government itself! as long as weapons sales benefit private corporations there will always be terrorists-- imo the only way to resolve it is to label any company that "creates" a bomb or gun with a higher caliber than 50 as terrorists-- war is wrong and killing can never be justified-- there is NOTHING that diplomacy or a small cell cant cure--



Sunofone, out of one side of your mouth, you say that war and killing can never be justified... but then out of the other side of your mouth, you say that you will never put your gun down. Pick one, please, as you can't have two absolutes. Here we have the idea that you can never imagine a way to kill, and the other in that you will defend by the use of killing tactics.

I dunno, but isn't that called "Doublespeak"??

Who would you want to create weapons? The Government?? In that case, business will make products for which there is a market. If it is daisies and roses, so be it - but there are more that want weaponry.

Help me understand how diplomacy helped France in 1938? How did a small cell help the world against Hitler or Lenin or Stalin or Kruschev or Pol Pot or Ghengis Khan?? "Excuse me, Mr. Idi Amin, but would you please accompany these nice men to the small cell we have reserved just for you? Thanks ever so much!!"

Yes, preaching the word of peace is wonderful, and in an ideal world, all the weapons WOULD be thrown into the sea. However, as long as there is someone out there that wants more than he has right now, and has no moral qualms about getting it, we will need weapons. Don't forget that the earliest murder was carried out with the use of a rock... out of a sense of jealousy, a brother killed a brother. Check out the book of Genesis in the Bible for more info (even though we don't know if it is true, it is good as an example). Should we outlaw rocks over 4" diameter as well?

There was some nasty glurge travelling the internet about a kid who watched a guy break into a neighbor's house and kill the residents. He asked his dad about what they should do, and his dad said that they weren't going to do anything because the house was far away. The kid watched as another and another house was broken into and the residents raped and killed... again he asks his dad. Dad says, "No, they haven't bothered us here!" Finally, all the other houses were razed and the guy came slamming on their doors. The kid screams for dad's help, and dad says, "Gee, there is nobody else to ask for help. I guess we are on our own. And now it looks like it is too late."

Sorry, but GWB believes that it is better to kick the guy's adze while he is still on the other end of the block. Do I agree? Perhaps. But then I wonder about Somalia and other places where there is worse going on... and wonder about Iraq.

The UN had sanctions against Iraq. There were international laws in place if Iraq failed up uphold their end of the deal in proving disarmament and destruction of their weapons of war. In case after case, Iraq failed. The UN decided to continue to threaten - and threaten and threaten... with no teeth. The US looked at the laws in place, looked at what Iraq was doing , and then looked at what the UN was doing.

Then we acted.

Illegal? Not hardly. Unpopular? You betcha. That's why we have discussions like this!

But to say that you won't kill unless you have to kill is a bad stance to try to have and still be taken seriously.
signman
QUOTE(JesseTheMutt @ Dec 25 2005, 02:30 AM) [snapback]992120[/snapback]

Yep.Has the government ever been truthful?Let me see..Hmm.They lied to the Native Americans as soon as they came over.That's lieing right from the start.Terrible way to start a country don't you think?Based on a lie.
you are correct! it was from the get-go designed by rich, white men, FOR rich, white men. when you hear the Limbaughs, the O'reillys, the American Family Association, etc, talk about "Traditional American Values", are those the "Traditional Values" of the Jim Crow laws?
JesseTheMutt
QUOTE(signman @ Dec 24 2005, 10:31 PM) [snapback]992194[/snapback]

you are correct! it was from the get-go designed by rich, white men, FOR rich, white men. when you hear the Limbaughs, the O'reillys, the American Family Association, etc, talk about "Traditional American Values", are those the "Traditional Values" of the Jim Crow laws?


Yeah.So I believe traditional american values are lieing,murder,thievery,and rape.Among other things.

"Say one thing, and do something different." - George Carlin.
"It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

I just..This government and country makes me sad.It really hurts to look at our history and think about what happened.It's real sad how terrible we were.I guess it's why the government tells us what to believe.They don't want people that can critically think.And look at our country now though.It's one big consumers paradise.And nobody seems to mind.It used to be so good when we got it..Well we stole it but it was nice then.It just *sigh* ph34r.gif I'm a sad Ninja.I'm going to Canada.
signman
QUOTE(JesseTheMutt @ Dec 25 2005, 03:39 AM) [snapback]992205[/snapback]

Yeah.So I believe traditional american values are lieing,murder,thievery,and rape.Among other things.

"Say one thing, and do something different." - George Carlin.
"It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

I just..This government and country makes me sad.It really hurts to look at our history and think about what happened.It's real sad how terrible we were.I guess it's why the government tells us what to believe.They don't want people that can critically think.And look at our country now though.It's one big consumers paradise.And nobody seems to mind.It used to be so good when we got it..Well we stole it but it was nice then.It just *sigh* ph34r.gif I'm a sad Ninja.I'm going to Canada.
for your Christmas reading and as a personal courtesy to all of my friends out in the world wide web, I recommend BURY MY HEART AT WOUNDED KNEE by Dee Brown, and JIM CROW GUIDE by Stetson Kennedy. Happy Holidays!
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