*Disclaimer: This topic may belong in Metaphysics or somewhere else. Please feel free to reassign it.
Premise: If G-d is the omnipotent Creator of All Things, then how do those who believe in G-d reconcile the creation of All Things from Nothingness, and the creation of only one Universe.
Questions: 1) If G-d is All Things, then doesn't G-d have to be Nothingness as well? Stated differently, how can G-d and Nothingness be mutually exlusive? 2) If G-d created billions upon billions of galaxies and stars, then why not billions upon billions of Universes (Multiverses)?
Full Version: G-d, the Universe, and Nothingness
QUOTE
If G-d is All Things, then doesn't G-d have to be Nothingness as well?
Sure, God is a synthesis that evolves. He recreates himself and becomes a greater being with each recreation in my opinion.
The only way that I can reconcile the concept of an omnipotent god is that it would exist outside of what we are able to comprehend as out universe...some different level of existence that we do not know about yet.
QUOTE(mklsgl @ Dec 25 2005, 08:10 PM) [snapback]992731[/snapback]
1) If G-d is All Things, then doesn't G-d have to be Nothingness as well? Stated differently, how can G-d and Nothingness be mutually exlusive?
Quite simply because Nothingness, despite being spelled with a capital letter, is not a thing, but rather an absence of all things. God, being a thing (hypothetically), would automatically negate the existance of nothingness.
i quote myself, from another recent thread, with my permission:
I like to follow Tao Teh Ching and kabbalah.
tao/ayn
compresses, somehow, to a point
teh/ayn sof.
at which point god
shen te/ayn sof aur
emerges from the nothingness and manifests the universe
the ten thousand things/the tree of life
which basically resembles the big bang, very suspiciously.
thus said, God emerges from the nothingness to manifest the created universe, which "emanates" or flows from God. there is never any separation from the deity, or everything would cease to exist. so, god is everywhere, but is not the physical world. it's like that thing we all see out of the corner of our eyes. try to turn and look at it, you won't find it! the vedas speak of tathagata "suchness" and emphasize that it is "not here, not there", in other words, the true reality is not perceptable to our understanding. the mahayana buddhists speak of nirvana (enlightenment/nothingness), and say that we are already there, even in the ocean of samsara (illusion). it's all maya (a big magic show). in answer to your question, time and space are real to us, in physical bodies. It simply doesn't exist for god. god is in the Tao area, which can only be perceived by us through meditation, if god wills it. this may be a function of angels. they help god communicate with us.
QUOTE
I like to follow Tao Teh Ching and kabbalah.
tao/ayn
compresses, somehow, to a point
teh/ayn sof.
at which point god
shen te/ayn sof aur
emerges from the nothingness and manifests the universe
the ten thousand things/the tree of life
which basically resembles the big bang, very suspiciously.
thus said, God emerges from the nothingness to manifest the created universe, which "emanates" or flows from God. there is never any separation from the deity, or everything would cease to exist. so, god is everywhere, but is not the physical world. it's like that thing we all see out of the corner of our eyes. try to turn and look at it, you won't find it! the vedas speak of tathagata "suchness" and emphasize that it is "not here, not there", in other words, the true reality is not perceptable to our understanding. the mahayana buddhists speak of nirvana (enlightenment/nothingness), and say that we are already there, even in the ocean of samsara (illusion). it's all maya (a big magic show). in answer to your question, time and space are real to us, in physical bodies. It simply doesn't exist for god. god is in the Tao area, which can only be perceived by us through meditation, if god wills it. this may be a function of angels. they help god communicate with us.
QUOTE
emerges from the nothingness and manifests the universe
Coming from nothingness is also in the Sepher Yetzirah. I was reading that a while back. The appearence of the Sephiroth out of nothingness is a bolt of lightning. And all the divine names of God are within this bolt.
QUOTE(mklsgl @ Dec 25 2005, 02:10 PM) [snapback]992731[/snapback]
*Disclaimer: This topic may belong in Metaphysics or somewhere else. Please feel free to reassign it.
Premise: If G-d is the omnipotent Creator of All Things, then how do those who believe in G-d reconcile the creation of All Things from Nothingness, and the creation of only one Universe.
Questions: 1) If G-d is All Things, then doesn't G-d have to be Nothingness as well? Stated differently, how can G-d and Nothingness be mutually exlusive? 2) If G-d created billions upon billions of galaxies and stars, then why not billions upon billions of Universes (Multiverses)?
Micheal i agree with you in large part, creation begins from nothingness. Namaste Sheri
QUOTE(Yelekiah @ Dec 25 2005, 04:01 PM) [snapback]992761[/snapback]
Coming from nothingness is also in the Sepher Yetzirah. I was reading that a while back. The appearence of the Sephiroth out of nothingness is a bolt of lightning. And all the divine names of God are within this bolt.
nice to that i'm not the only one here who reads kabalah,sherri.
gid, did you mean yele? I have not read the kabbalah although I would like to one day. namaste sheri
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Dec 25 2005, 10:11 PM) [snapback]993015[/snapback]
gid, did you mean yele? I have not read the kabbalah although I would like to one day. namaste sheri
sefer yetzirah is part of the kabalah-i thought you knew.
QUOTE(GIDEON MAGE @ Dec 25 2005, 09:30 PM) [snapback]993037[/snapback]
sefer yetzirah is part of the kabalah-i thought you knew.
gid you are mixing me with yele, I don't know about the kabbalah but am very interested in it PM me with suggested reading for the lay person
Namaste Sheri
According to the Bible (erm, Christian God rules), God is not omnipotent because he does not exist in Hell. Hell is the total seperation from God himself, therefore he could not 'be there'. And if God is something, how could he be nothingness at the same time, because that nothingness would be a somethingness 
?
?
QUOTE(GIDEON MAGE @ Dec 25 2005, 08:58 PM) [snapback]992965[/snapback]
nice to that i'm not the only one here who reads kabalah,sherri.
But my name isn't sheri, gideoto.
(jk)
QUOTE(TheThirdAngel @ Dec 25 2005, 10:14 PM) [snapback]993066[/snapback]
According to the Bible (erm, Christian God rules), God is not omnipotent because he does not exist in Hell. Hell is the total seperation from God himself, therefore he could not 'be there'. And if God is something, how could he be nothingness at the same time, because that nothingness would be a somethingness
?You couldn't have something without nothing, IMO the bible only tells half the story it is an incoomplete teaching. namaste Sheri
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Dec 25 2005, 11:14 PM) [snapback]993065[/snapback]
gid you are mixing me with yele, I don't know about the kabbalah but am very interested in it PM me with suggested reading for the lay person
Namaste Sheriapologies to both-you posted together and have similiar icon colors.whoops.
Hmm, more conundrums. This is another one of those, can God create a mountain so large he can't lift it, kind of questions isn't it.
Gid and Yele, that would make 3 of "us" who have read the Kabbalah...
Quote Yele: "Sepher Yetzirah. I was reading that a while back. The appearance of the Sephiroth out of nothingness is a bolt of lightning. And all the divine names of [G-d] are within this bolt."
- But how to reconcile the Sephiroth, the lightning, from out of Nothingness? If you believe in [G-d], how can there ever have been Nothingness?
Quote PA: "This is another one of those, can [G-d] create a mountain so large he can't lift it, kind of questions isn't it."
- No, PA. That is not my intention here. However, if you wish to interpret it that way, that's your choice.
(And to the poster who thought nothingness didn't need to begin with a capital letter: It's entirely my discretion to capitalize Nothingness if I choose to deem it a proper noun.)
Quote Yele: "Sepher Yetzirah. I was reading that a while back. The appearance of the Sephiroth out of nothingness is a bolt of lightning. And all the divine names of [G-d] are within this bolt."
- But how to reconcile the Sephiroth, the lightning, from out of Nothingness? If you believe in [G-d], how can there ever have been Nothingness?
Quote PA: "This is another one of those, can [G-d] create a mountain so large he can't lift it, kind of questions isn't it."
- No, PA. That is not my intention here. However, if you wish to interpret it that way, that's your choice.
(And to the poster who thought nothingness didn't need to begin with a capital letter: It's entirely my discretion to capitalize Nothingness if I choose to deem it a proper noun.)
QUOTE(mklsgl)
No, PA. That is not my intention here. However, if you wish to interpret it that way, that's your choice.
Fair enough. It is my experience that there is no such thing as complete Nothingness (I like the capital-ness of the word). Something may be so devoid of something that it can be described as Nothing, but there will always be something. It's like the word silence. We say "listen, silence". Yet there is always sound. It is a comparative term we use to compare something that is loud. The performance artist John Cage was locked in a soundproof room. there was nothing except him, yet he still heard two sounds. The sounds of his circulatory system, and the sound of his respiratory system.
Does this make sense.
Regards, PA
QUOTE(mklsgl @ Dec 26 2005, 02:41 PM) [snapback]993583[/snapback]
- But how to reconcile the Sephiroth, the lightning, from out of Nothingness? If you believe in [G-d], how can there ever have been Nothingness?
He created a reality out of nothing, called the non-existing into existence and shaped colossal pillars from intangible air.
-The Book of Creation
It implies that God emerged from nothingness. It would defy a lot if energy or thought could come from nothing and evolve. It isn't something I can explain scientifically, but a Higher Energy out of nothing is seen in other creation myths. Energy coming out of chaos and darkness.
Words or thoughts creating a reality. Like "Let there be light".
The John Cage example (who, by the way, had an exhibit here in Phila during the late 80s; each day it was altered--never the same exhibit twice, so I just had to go every day!) ... It certainly does "fit," PA.
Potentially humorous, possibly applicable: At a Grateful Dead show way back when, they were between tunes, just noodling around on their various instruments (as usual) attempting to find something to lead them somewhere, Weir steps to the mic and says "This is what nothing sounds like" but Garcia, the quick wit that he was, jumps in, laughing, and retorts, "Half of our songs started out as these little 'I don't what we're playing; let's just see where nothing takes us... the last tune I wrote came from listening to silence."
Potentially humorous, possibly applicable: At a Grateful Dead show way back when, they were between tunes, just noodling around on their various instruments (as usual) attempting to find something to lead them somewhere, Weir steps to the mic and says "This is what nothing sounds like" but Garcia, the quick wit that he was, jumps in, laughing, and retorts, "Half of our songs started out as these little 'I don't what we're playing; let's just see where nothing takes us... the last tune I wrote came from listening to silence."
I feel confident God would have the same questions. Could it be that God is a synonym for Unknowable?
QUOTE(aquatus1 @ Dec 25 2005, 08:40 PM) [snapback]992748[/snapback]
Quite simply because Nothingness, despite being spelled with a capital letter, is not a thing, but rather an absence of all things. God, being a thing (hypothetically), would automatically negate the existance of nothingness.
Nothingness is not a thing. That's what I was going to say.And, I do believe God is on the most part unknowable. The bible does say his thoughts are higher than ours. I'm one to believe his existance is far beyond our human understanding. You'd think that the created wouldn't be able to understand as much as the creator can.
1. aquatus, please define "thing" anyway you wish to do so... and; 2. Okay, then how could [G-d] "negate" that which doesn't exist?
3. Zero: Please rationalize how anyone can place trust in that which is for "the most part unknowable."
4. Yele, I like that idea. My problem is that it emeges from myth. Give me something... logic at least, I know science doesn't have an explanation, yet.
3. Zero: Please rationalize how anyone can place trust in that which is for "the most part unknowable."
4. Yele, I like that idea. My problem is that it emeges from myth. Give me something... logic at least, I know science doesn't have an explanation, yet.
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