Full Version: proof of life
would proof of life on other planets change your belief in god in anyway? assuming that they are completely different from us and perhaps more advanced....
Well, I would first assume that they were not made in his image . . . .
But then maybe they were . . . . hmmm . . . .
But then maybe they were . . . . hmmm . . . .
well that's the thing, would it make a difference if they looked nothing like humans, what would this do to the theory of god?
Not one bit, I honestly believe that if God has created life in such a small planet like this one, and as it is a big universe why not create life on other planets also?
It wouldn't do squat. Belief is only faith.
QUOTE(bacca @ Dec 27 2005, 07:48 PM) [snapback]994797[/snapback]
well that's the thing, would it make a difference if they looked nothing like humans, what would this do to the theory of god?
Good question bacca, if what they say is true here on earth that God has created man in the form of himself (man) then if other planets have aliens and if they don't look anything like us humans, well then just how do they pic God? I guess that on every planet that is much different than our own may have their own version of God and may also believe that he created them in the form in which they live,if you get my meaning!!
Do they have their version /form of a bible? Could there have been a son of God on their planet many years ago? Could God have placed more than one of his children on to toher planets to see how each one gets treated?
how do you explain there being multiple beings then? or would we be the only one's made in his image? he doesn't look like everything does he? wouldn't that have to change how the bible followers see him?
QUOTE(bacca @ Dec 27 2005, 01:59 PM) [snapback]994814[/snapback]
how do you explain there being multiple beings then? or would we be the only one's made in his image? he doesn't look like everything does he? wouldn't that have to change how the bible followers see him?
you would think it would bacca but......
but what sheri? i've never known you to stop mid thought......
But, it wont. Because they will make excuses as they always do.
there is a first for everything girl finish for me, you know how I think namaste sheri
"nothing exist in a vacuum"
this means, prob any life elsewhere would resemble here. there are prob many planets about the right distance from similiar suns, about the same distance, with four-limbed, five-digited beings that believe the universe centers around them. gods and saviors might be hauntingly familiar.
"so god created us in his image, with fins and tails just like his"
"there are twelve gods, just like the fingers on each hand"
"sixteen angels rule the skies, just like the 16 planets"
"god covered us with fur, because she is covered with fur. bare-skinned beings are inferior and have no souls"
"god lays her eggs in the water,and transforms, then lives on land. this is why we do this"
"god emerged from the pupa stage, spread her wings, and became queen of the sky"
"god laid 5 eggs, which became the 5 planets, then became the sun."
i am sure we could figure it out, if we met these people. prob they are more similiar to us. i'll bet civilizations rise and fall, then either destroy the world, or make peace among the nations and explore space.
this means, prob any life elsewhere would resemble here. there are prob many planets about the right distance from similiar suns, about the same distance, with four-limbed, five-digited beings that believe the universe centers around them. gods and saviors might be hauntingly familiar.
"so god created us in his image, with fins and tails just like his"
"there are twelve gods, just like the fingers on each hand"
"sixteen angels rule the skies, just like the 16 planets"
"god covered us with fur, because she is covered with fur. bare-skinned beings are inferior and have no souls"
"god lays her eggs in the water,and transforms, then lives on land. this is why we do this"
"god emerged from the pupa stage, spread her wings, and became queen of the sky"
"god laid 5 eggs, which became the 5 planets, then became the sun."
i am sure we could figure it out, if we met these people. prob they are more similiar to us. i'll bet civilizations rise and fall, then either destroy the world, or make peace among the nations and explore space.
I don't think it will change too many people's beliefs. There will be people that will say that in the Bible there were fantastic beings not of this earth, etc.
ok so then those who believe in the bible 100% should also believe in alien life?
I find it strange whenever people think that God having made us in his image means he is a human just like us. It brings to mind Sunday school with pictures of a big old white guy with a long beard sitting on a cloud. Do people really think that is what God looks like?
(I'm not meaning to degrade anyone here -- I just never thought people really believed that)
Personally, I think that "God made man in his image" is talking about a spiritual image, not a physical one. I don't think God has a physical image. He's not a man - he's a spiritual energy source. I didn't know that people really thought he is a humanoid.
That having been said, I think that beings on other planets might look completely different than us but still be made in God's image.
(I'm not meaning to degrade anyone here -- I just never thought people really believed that)
Personally, I think that "God made man in his image" is talking about a spiritual image, not a physical one. I don't think God has a physical image. He's not a man - he's a spiritual energy source. I didn't know that people really thought he is a humanoid.
That having been said, I think that beings on other planets might look completely different than us but still be made in God's image.
QUOTE(BurnSide @ Dec 27 2005, 01:49 PM) [snapback]994801[/snapback]
It wouldn't do squat. Belief is only faith.
This applies to everything in the world, not just religion. Politics is the major one, faith in the system, faith in the media to properly inform you, and faith in the leaders themselves. What happens when you find out they are lying to your face. Bush is the prime example, but he of course is just the front man. He pisses on our face and tells us it's raining. The more trusting people collect his piss for drinking water, and gobble it up. Truth is hard to come by these days, in the days of deception.
Bacca,
I have done reasearch into this myself. Personaly it's does not affect my beliefs at all, I expect it. All of the beings cataloged by our government when retriving crashed UFO's have all been humanoid, meaning bi-pedal, with two eyes, and two arms. You would think if the theory of evolution was valid that life would evolve into different forms specific to the planet type, but that's not the case, at least yet. The more I search, the more I find out what I thought I knew before, is not even close. It's truly a strange world we live in. Here is a trascript from the press conference on UFO's back in 2001. You can watch the whole two hours here, other wise just read what I typed. (it's not in sentence form, as he was speaking, and I did my best in a short time)
http://www.netro.ca/disclosure/npccmenu.htm
Sgt Clifford Stone Army: "I had a secret clearance with nuclear assority I could get the clearance I needed to do whatever it was that was necessary for me to do at the time in special operations when I was called in on those, what I'm refereing to here is that I was involved in---we actually did recoveries of crashed saucers for lack of better term degrees there of, there were bodies that were involved in these crashes also some were alive while we were doing all this, we were telling the American public there was nothing to it, and we were telling the world there was nothing to it. We have sat back and told the American public there are no such things as UFOs I've been involved where we have recovered these objects, we know of them to be of extraterrestrials, in 1969, I had an event that happened to me while I was stationed at Fort Lee Virgina, we went to Indian town Gap Pennsylvania, that would be my first exposure to anytime that we would be recovering an unidentified flying object, we were a back up team which was supposed to be MBC because there was supposed to be some nuclear materials on board this craft. Later on most people involved were to be told that there was nothing on board it, it was nothing more then just a crash of one of our aircraft, I know better, because I was one of the people that approached it with a geiger counter to get surface readings. I was the first person to see that there was bodies on it. I know we are not alone in the universe. I know that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It's evidence that has been denied to the American people."
Q/A session afterwards:
"When I got out in 1989, we had cataloged 57 different species. You have individuals that look much like you and myself that could walk among us and you wouldn't even notice the difference. Except for some of the things that uh, they might be able to go ahead in a dark room and touch and object and identify what color that object might be. They would have a heightened sense of smell, sight, hearing. The situation is that you have various types of what we normally call greys, we didn't call them greys in the military, but you had at least three types of the greys. You had some that were much taller then we were the unique thing that I would like to point out is that for the most part is that the entities that we did catalog were in fact humanoid. Now this in fact created a situation with the scientific community was trying to figure out why that would be the case because you would expect that if life evolved on other planets that they would take on some type of other being so to speak not necessarily look humanoid or be bipedal such as we are but apparently we have quite a few of the species out there that are humanoid in appearance. And that creates a question that yet has to be answered by science."
QUOTE
About Clifford Stone:
Clifford Stone is unique among those experiencing and investigating UFO and ET phenomenon. He spent 22 years in the US Army as a part of an extremely elite and secret group that was rapidly dispatched to crash sites in order to recover UFO or ET craft, bodies, and artifacts. Since his retirement from the Army, he has devoted his time to a diligent Freedom of Information Act search of government archives. He maintains that we have knowledge that intelligent life is visiting this planet in craft capable of traveling distances of many light years very quickly; effectively bypassing acceptably known physics. Further, he stresses that our recovery of these ET craft and artifacts have allowed our government to make staggering scientific gains of great potential benefit to the world. He maintains, as do many others, that this information is held in deeply secret programs beyond Constitutional controls and safeguards, and that despite the end of the cold war, those controlling these 'black projects' have continued to keep these important discoveries to themselves and for motives known only to them.
Sgt. Stone is coming forward with his story to encourage citizens and our elected officials to open investigations and end this Constitutional bypass by a powerful and covert organization operating under our noses and in our skies.
Clifford Stone was born in Portsmouth, Ohio. At an early age, he has memories of being contacted by ETs and that contact continues today. At age eight, he was befriended by an Air Force captain and that relationship continued through his early adult life. During the VietNam war, he felt an obligation to enlist in the Air Force but was rejected due to a skin affliction and classified 4F. He was advised by his friend, the captain, to try the Army and after a 'lenient' medical examination, he was allowed into the Army as a clerk typist, a job he never had to fulfill.
Within weeks, he found himself picked up in a staff car on the pretense of seeing a low ranking friend with a job at the Pentagon. On arrival, his friend's clearances allowed them into levels beneath the Pentagon, onto a tram, and soon he found himself thrust into a room and circumstances beyond imagination. His career was never normal, and for a newly minted soldier, he was suddenly thrust into the USA's deepest secrets: ETs are real and we are successfully recovering many of their craft intact as well as hundreds of ET artifacts worldwide. Further, we are familiar with much of their technologies and have in fact, back engineered some of the ET gear. After 22 years of being on the scene with ET craft and dead, wounded, and living ETs, Sgt. Stone is highly qualified as an expert in ET tech, black ops organizations/procedures, and the potentiality of ET contact to mankind.
Stone maintains that this secrecy is unconstitutional and beyond control and knowledge of our elected officials. Thereby, this represents a government hidden within our society with tremendous assets, funding, and knowledge.
This illegal government is operating without oversight, control, and the consent of the Executive, or Legislative branches.
Further, he feels this secrecy has split large parts of the citizenry into those that have seen UFO or ET craft/beings and those that place these observers in a category as something less than competent. Much of the malaise and mistrust of government can be attributed to a remarkable majority of its citizenry seeing or believing in these objects while the government and its officials and representatives deny or lack the courage to disclose what is now obvious. Also, the considerable scientific skills and assets of the world are for the most part, diverted by this bias from working on projects generations ahead of current understanding. This continues to allow important discoveries and advances within the control of the few.
Mr. Stone is bravely, and with resistance from covert quarters, coming forward with his story to do the following. He urges those in the know to admit that UFOs seen by millions worldwide are both ET and our own 'back engineered' ET-style craft. Release the abundant information and materials that show intelligent life is visiting our planet and has been monitored by numerous governments for decades. Provide the information that will allow our Constitutional government take back control of these deeply compartmented programs and restore confidence and trust in our system of government and military organizations. And at last, urge our government to finally entrust its citizens and the world with the truth about ET existence and technologies. With this information we can begin to formulate our place and relationship to other intelligent life in the cosmos. Sgt. Stone is a person that can provide the extraordinary evidence required for such extraordinary claims and provoke others to demand that the inheritance of mankind be reported to the all.
http://www.myufo.com/stone/
Clifford Stone is unique among those experiencing and investigating UFO and ET phenomenon. He spent 22 years in the US Army as a part of an extremely elite and secret group that was rapidly dispatched to crash sites in order to recover UFO or ET craft, bodies, and artifacts. Since his retirement from the Army, he has devoted his time to a diligent Freedom of Information Act search of government archives. He maintains that we have knowledge that intelligent life is visiting this planet in craft capable of traveling distances of many light years very quickly; effectively bypassing acceptably known physics. Further, he stresses that our recovery of these ET craft and artifacts have allowed our government to make staggering scientific gains of great potential benefit to the world. He maintains, as do many others, that this information is held in deeply secret programs beyond Constitutional controls and safeguards, and that despite the end of the cold war, those controlling these 'black projects' have continued to keep these important discoveries to themselves and for motives known only to them.
Sgt. Stone is coming forward with his story to encourage citizens and our elected officials to open investigations and end this Constitutional bypass by a powerful and covert organization operating under our noses and in our skies.
Clifford Stone was born in Portsmouth, Ohio. At an early age, he has memories of being contacted by ETs and that contact continues today. At age eight, he was befriended by an Air Force captain and that relationship continued through his early adult life. During the VietNam war, he felt an obligation to enlist in the Air Force but was rejected due to a skin affliction and classified 4F. He was advised by his friend, the captain, to try the Army and after a 'lenient' medical examination, he was allowed into the Army as a clerk typist, a job he never had to fulfill.
Within weeks, he found himself picked up in a staff car on the pretense of seeing a low ranking friend with a job at the Pentagon. On arrival, his friend's clearances allowed them into levels beneath the Pentagon, onto a tram, and soon he found himself thrust into a room and circumstances beyond imagination. His career was never normal, and for a newly minted soldier, he was suddenly thrust into the USA's deepest secrets: ETs are real and we are successfully recovering many of their craft intact as well as hundreds of ET artifacts worldwide. Further, we are familiar with much of their technologies and have in fact, back engineered some of the ET gear. After 22 years of being on the scene with ET craft and dead, wounded, and living ETs, Sgt. Stone is highly qualified as an expert in ET tech, black ops organizations/procedures, and the potentiality of ET contact to mankind.
Stone maintains that this secrecy is unconstitutional and beyond control and knowledge of our elected officials. Thereby, this represents a government hidden within our society with tremendous assets, funding, and knowledge.
This illegal government is operating without oversight, control, and the consent of the Executive, or Legislative branches.
Further, he feels this secrecy has split large parts of the citizenry into those that have seen UFO or ET craft/beings and those that place these observers in a category as something less than competent. Much of the malaise and mistrust of government can be attributed to a remarkable majority of its citizenry seeing or believing in these objects while the government and its officials and representatives deny or lack the courage to disclose what is now obvious. Also, the considerable scientific skills and assets of the world are for the most part, diverted by this bias from working on projects generations ahead of current understanding. This continues to allow important discoveries and advances within the control of the few.
Mr. Stone is bravely, and with resistance from covert quarters, coming forward with his story to do the following. He urges those in the know to admit that UFOs seen by millions worldwide are both ET and our own 'back engineered' ET-style craft. Release the abundant information and materials that show intelligent life is visiting our planet and has been monitored by numerous governments for decades. Provide the information that will allow our Constitutional government take back control of these deeply compartmented programs and restore confidence and trust in our system of government and military organizations. And at last, urge our government to finally entrust its citizens and the world with the truth about ET existence and technologies. With this information we can begin to formulate our place and relationship to other intelligent life in the cosmos. Sgt. Stone is a person that can provide the extraordinary evidence required for such extraordinary claims and provoke others to demand that the inheritance of mankind be reported to the all.
http://www.myufo.com/stone/
sorry scooby but i don't believe that any former military man with that sort of clearance would ever talk. Just me but having spent the amount of time i have around the military i think that it's false unless it can be proven 100% that he is who he says he is i don't buy it
QUOTE(bacca @ Dec 27 2005, 05:12 PM) [snapback]995025[/snapback]
sorry scooby but i don't believe that any former military man with that sort of clearance would ever talk. Just me but having spent the amount of time i have around the military i think that it's false unless it can be proven 100% that he is who he says he is i don't buy it
Do you know what a whistle blower is? Someone who breaks their oath of secrecy or oath of allegiance to the companies intellectual property to come forward and reveal corruption. If you expect ABC news to tell you the truth, you have a lot to learn. If you expect the government to tell you about this, again you have a lot to learn. You don't have to believe me, but you should really be the most skeptical of your government, that's what it means to be patriotic. If you believe your government, they have you in control like many Atheists think the church has it's followers in control.
They control what you think, by controling the education system, history, and current events through the control of the mass media.
Basically in the end, you will not know until they allow you to know, they don't tell the people as soon as they find out themselves.
Major defense contractors own CBS and NBC, two of the largest US television networks. Boeing and Lockheed are major advertisers and contractors. Some defence contractors even sponsor NBA events, while the US Army co-sponsored the 1998 Soccer World Cup!
yeah, good luck.
yeah, good luck.
It wouldn't change my belief system at all. My religion is very adaptable. I have often wondered if we are dealing with a future humans in search of genetic material and that is why they are similar to us. Think about what we would look like if were adapted to a million years of space travel. 
?
?
wether or not i believe the government doesn't matter. I don't believe that a man who has given his life to the military as he would have to get that clearance would openly say these things. Those men are programed i agree and no i won't buy into something like that unless they can prove it.....
and if you believe something just because someone else says something opposite the government, church or basic establishment just because it is the opposite you are no better then those who whole heartedly follow the other.
and if you believe something just because someone else says something opposite the government, church or basic establishment just because it is the opposite you are no better then those who whole heartedly follow the other.
QUOTE(bacca @ Dec 27 2005, 06:18 PM) [snapback]995113[/snapback]
wether or not i believe the government doesn't matter. I don't believe that a man who has given his life to the military as he would have to get that clearance would openly say these things. Those men are programed i agree and no i won't buy into something like that unless they can prove it.....
and if you believe something just because someone else says something opposite the government, church or basic establishment just because it is the opposite you are no better then those who whole heartedly follow the other.
Whether or not you believe the government has everything to do with this. You don't realize how they create reality. They create public opinion, most have no idea how much they are influenced by propaganda.
I think they can prove it, they just want Congress to give them thier approval and release them from thier oath of secrecy. The government will not allow them to present evidence. Do you think the government would lie to you? Do you know the stock market crash was a controlled crash to redisdribute the wealth out of the hands of the masses and back into the hands of the rich. Not everything is as it seems. YOu live in America, the land of deceived people who think they are free.
I agree Scooby. Don't believe anything you hear and believe less than half of what you see. I think the story you have there is a little far-fetched, and I don't think I believe that either, but you are right. The government controls more than we know.
But to answer the original question, intelligent life on other planets will not change my belief in God! HOwever, I don't wish to elaborate until/if we ever meet aliens.
Regards, PA
But to answer the original question, intelligent life on other planets will not change my belief in God! HOwever, I don't wish to elaborate until/if we ever meet aliens.
Regards, PA
So do you think that seeing is believing? No one has seen God but some still believe, and if God has put life on such a small planet like this one but has also created a huge universe, then he may as well have created life else where also.
well the think is would it change peoples view of god, so basically would you still be able to see god in the same way, knowing there are others?
I believe in aliens. But I don't think it is going to change my belief in God.
How come? Because if aliens are what people portray them- maybe they are like animals - really smart animals. Animals don't look like us do they? So why would an alien look like us? Perhaps the alien lifeforms are like angels or something. ha ha. I sound a little looney.
How come? Because if aliens are what people portray them- maybe they are like animals - really smart animals. Animals don't look like us do they? So why would an alien look like us? Perhaps the alien lifeforms are like angels or something. ha ha. I sound a little looney.
101 so you would go with alien life is beneath humans? like an animal? or do you consider animals equal to humans?
QUOTE(bacca @ Dec 28 2005, 09:50 AM) [snapback]995797[/snapback]
101 so you would go with alien life is beneath humans? like an animal? or do you consider animals equal to humans?
Aren't we animals? Humans are just advanced animals right?
So me saying an alien is like an animal is not bad at all.
It is just saying that they are no created in the image of God as we are. Because they look different- according to the sightings etc. Or maybe they just are created in the image of God also- but God looks different in different planets?
so no matter what you learn from older more advanced beings you would still hold onto the idea that god looks like a human? no matter what?
Yes.
Who is to say the aliens don't know of God?
Have you spoken to an alien?
Who is to say the aliens don't know of God?
Have you spoken to an alien?
Whose to say they would even believe in a God? If they're traveling light years to get to the backwater that this planet is in they would probably know a whole lot more about what's going on than we could dream up. They'd definitely have technology humans know nothing about.
QUOTE(Pyxis @ Dec 28 2005, 10:39 AM) [snapback]995844[/snapback]
Whose to say they would even believe in a God? If they're traveling light years to get to the backwater that this planet is in they would probably know a whole lot more about what's going on than we could dream up. They'd definitely have technology humans know nothing about.
Yes so maybe the theory is that the aliens are angels or supernatural beings.
Perhaps they are God's creatures as well as us. They come to Earth to check on us. They are the angels we know of today.
Or maybe they just evolved on another planet, became sentient and started exploring space? I don't think, if we ever see an aliens, that it would be an angel or a demon.
and if they aren't kind angels here to check on us? then what?
Then they are just God's creation as well as us. They just live on another planet so and so forth.
Anyone can feel free to run with this one. What if they came here to "convert" us to their religion? Kind of interstellar missionaries. What if theirs made more sense?
Or would the religions here start trying to convert the aliens? Hmmm.
Or would the religions here start trying to convert the aliens? Hmmm.
"to "convert" "
explain how that would go about, u mean like brainwash as our religions do, or apodbt the Rastafarian approach about things and let people find the truth for themselves?
explain how that would go about, u mean like brainwash as our religions do, or apodbt the Rastafarian approach about things and let people find the truth for themselves?
Well let's say it's based like Christian Missionaries. Like a brainwash technique. If humans were just left to find out the truth for themselves, it wouldn't really be a conversion. Besides most wouldn't do that anyway.
hmmm "missionary" throughout history usually have a bad time with indigenious people choppin their heads off for their crazy talk. I wouldnt like to see some peace lovin hippy aliens convert us, theyd get nuked pretty quickly.
who knows? It was just something that crossed my mind. You can't tell me some of the techniques used to convert indegenious peoples weren't heartless and cruel. Think of it this way. We're the indegenious people, and they are "insert religious group here"
We might try to nuke them, but that doesn't mean that it would do any damage. Like I said, who knows? They could have no use for religion as we see it. Or they could be as bad or worse than we are about it.
We might try to nuke them, but that doesn't mean that it would do any damage. Like I said, who knows? They could have no use for religion as we see it. Or they could be as bad or worse than we are about it.
that is something that would be interesting. If they decide that their religion is the right way and force it onto this planet the way that christians have in the past. You know believe this or be tortured.......that would be something
Yes it would and considering the probability that they have better weapons and technology, we probably wouldn't have much of a chance.
They could infect us with some disease if we refused. Torture us, enslave us, whatever they wanted.
Hopefully it wouldn't be like that.
They could infect us with some disease if we refused. Torture us, enslave us, whatever they wanted.
Hopefully it wouldn't be like that.
But what if these aliens are so advanced they need no god?
Why would they need to share a deity with us- when they need none- everyone and everything is explained because of the technology they know.
Why would they need to share a deity with us- when they need none- everyone and everything is explained because of the technology they know.
That is the most likely possiblity.
But we really don't know anything about what an alien race would be like. Maybe their religion runs everything. Their science, culture, laws, are all based on some religion and they feel that everyone and thing should follow it. NO MATTER WHAT.
Sounds kinda familiar.
But I think that if they have the technology to fly all this way to say hi, then they probably wouldn't be here for conquest. Unless of course it's ends up being something like Independence Day.
But we really don't know anything about what an alien race would be like. Maybe their religion runs everything. Their science, culture, laws, are all based on some religion and they feel that everyone and thing should follow it. NO MATTER WHAT.
Sounds kinda familiar.
But I think that if they have the technology to fly all this way to say hi, then they probably wouldn't be here for conquest. Unless of course it's ends up being something like Independence Day.
Hmmm. I hope the aliens aren't going to steal my baby. 
I think we are safe.
I think we are safe.
QUOTE(101 @ Dec 28 2005, 12:17 PM) [snapback]995958[/snapback]
But what if these aliens are so advanced they need no god?
Why would they need to share a deity with us- when they need none- everyone and everything is explained because of the technology they know.
so what your saying is if you are really smart then god no longer exists? so by what you said god is only for the ignorant less advanced beings? that's funny coming from a believer
Don't worry 101, I doubt they'll steal your baby.
Like I said before, it's just a question that popped into my head while I was reading this thread.
Like I said before, it's just a question that popped into my head while I was reading this thread.
QUOTE(bacca @ Dec 28 2005, 12:30 PM) [snapback]995976[/snapback]
so what your saying is if you are really smart then god no longer exists? so by what you said god is only for the ignorant less advanced beings? that's funny coming from a believer
I did not say it like that. But you sure did.
Don't you notice that even the smart believers- Irish and PA are really smart yet they believe in God. Hmm maybe that statement doesn't work for everyone.
I only said that because some people- hyper's theory is we evolve out of the need of a god the deity itself becomes larger and eventually less active- such as the unactive deist creator- maybe then non-existant.
What we have here is a couple of armchair sociologists/psychologists, and that's it.
I was the only one who presented anything, beyond my personal thoughts. You might as well ask a bushmen in Africa what he thinks snow feels like. His opinion has no intelectual significance, and who cares what they think, when it's obvious they have no clue. Let's get an educated opinion. Where would you find one?
I was the only one who presented anything, beyond my personal thoughts. You might as well ask a bushmen in Africa what he thinks snow feels like. His opinion has no intelectual significance, and who cares what they think, when it's obvious they have no clue. Let's get an educated opinion. Where would you find one?
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