Out of curiosity, is this thing real? Was there any actual evidence of it existing?

All I know is what it is and that it was last seen during WW2.

Any info would be great

Thanks.

Already a Spear of Destiny thread, but it was thought that the Nazis stole the real one and produced a fake.

Oh, couldn't find one in search...whats the thread called?

Actually now that I think about it it was a Nazi occult thread where we discussed the Spear of Destiny. There were two of them, but I forget the name of the thread. We also talked about a documentary on it.

Cool, I think I found the ones you mean...thanks

ahh yes, the spear of destiny. a peculiar object in itself. yes it does in fact exist, however aside from what you have seen in the movie Constantine, it has been seen since world war 2. but in order for me to really explain it i have to give you what little history of it that i have (and guys feel free to correct and expand on what i say after this, i'm just trying to help this guy out with what little knowledge i have). anyways, we all probably know that the spear that pierced the side of jesus christ our lord during his crucifixition is considered the blow that ultimately led to his death, well legend has it that that spearhead ever since entering the body of christ has had supernatural significance to it, more particularly being the power to do a world of good or the exact opposite, being a world of bad. Legend also pertains to holding destiny in your hands as long as you have the spear of destiny, back to the whole idea of having the power to do good or bad. Well, as far as where the spear went after the crucifixition exactly is a mystery to me, but i do know where it ended up eventually, and that location is a particular museum in germany (the one exactly i don't remember the name of, my apologies but the name exactly is all over the internet attainable by a simple search.) anyways, there the spear stood up until the time of hitler, back when he was a mere civilian. one day hitler visited the museum and was deeply transfixed to the spear. somebody who i assume worked for the museum told hitler of the legend of the spear of destiny, and it only ignited hitler's obession even further with it. when hitler finally rose to power, he had acquired the spear into his possesion, and not in the museum any further. when the war finally ended, american soldiers had specific knowledge of the spear and were already informed that it was in the bunkers, or at least they found it there, but supposedly they didn't seem too shocked. anyways, supposedly they were ordered to guard it for a day or two until it was returned to the museum where hitler took it from. but an account of somebody from the museum whose job it was to guard the spear said that the spear returned to the museum by america was a fake, a replica of it designed to fool the world, however that person died the day it was returned and only lived to tell a single person, who in turn tried to tell certain people and yada yada yada, eventually leading up here as another urban legend for our very ears. but the fact remains, of America's own rise to power ever since world war 2. Who holds the spear of destiny, and what exactly are its powers? Does the spear of destiny in fact choose our destiny for us, just choosing us as puppets to act out history? Is it in fact preordained to act out fate as the hand of god? (meaning, the concentration camps, genocide and etc. being yet another test from god for his chosen people, the jews) All these questions do have answers, but they are answers not many of us know or may ever know. but another legend, this one most likely false, is that the spear itself is actually a stick, or tool or something that god himself gave adam to tend to the garden of eden, in turn adam turned it into a farm tool to tend to the land after he was cast out of the garden of eden, and then in turn it was turned into a spear when kain killed abel, and then it is unknown what supposedly happened to it until it ended up piercing christs side. that legend on the other hand, i am not so sure about. the only reason i stated it was for you guys to inquire about being as when i saw it on the internet it had so much more facts behind it and qoutes from the bible. alright im out, peace.

Great info, might as well keep this thread going

thanks, it's a little blurry, but i tried.

oh yeah, actually how the movie Constantine says that the spear of destiny hasn't been seen since world war 2, they could be implying as well that the spear at the museum in germany is indeed a replica, and that either america or someone else has it. so who knows, maybe they're telling the truth, movie or not. lol yeah anyways, just a thought i forgot to put into my first post.

New member here, but from what I remember on the history of the Spear is that the inner part of the spear was tested and dates to around 800 AD. The silver or golden part dates from 1200 AD. There seems to be an older piece of material embedded in it, however and it's been theorized that there's a nail from the cross in the center. The testing did seem to be pretty conclusive, however, on it not being the actual spear that pierced Jesus' side.

OK I Am Lost can some tell me what the hell is going on

Oh god, I love topics pertaining to the Spirit of Destiny, such a tool of power...But its legend is far more broad than most people think.

Spear of Longinus and the Heilige Lance as the spear is also known, the origin of the name 'Longinus' comes from the man who impaled Christ, Gaius Cassius, and he was then, later named Longinus.

But I'll break straight to the point...The most eerie thing is not what could happen if someone now got ahold of this spear, or whether or not it even contains power. The history of the spear gives evidence to itself.

For years it has been passed down into different hands, mainly some of Europes greatest military and political leaders, people like Alaric the great Visigoth king who brought Rome to its knees making the kingdom crumble, somewhere around the early 400's.

People like Charlemagne and Frederick of Barbarossa seemed impossible to kill, as their armies seemed impossiblr to defeat...until they lost grasp of the spear. Coincidence? Ha, I doubt it.

You see, the 'legend' already proves itself, everyone great person that has held this spear, has had some great impact on the world.

Now as for Hitler, when he had the spear, in the year 1944 Hitler had the spear and some other artifacts burried within St. Katherines Church, with some other religious artifacts.

The following year, Allied troops who raided the church, found the Spear, and took it...Two hours later, Hitler killed himself.

You decide.

pretty specious reasoning all the same, its kinda like if i was the most ultimate hand to hand combat ninja madman on the planet, but i had this little pink teddy i called Armitage Shanks and i only ever gave Artmitage Shanks away to the next ultimate hand to hand combat ninja madman on the planet once i retired and he would do the same, and so forth. Now just becuase we happend to be the ultimate hand to hand combat ninja madmen on the planet or perhaps some of the greatest political leaders or military leaders off al time, it might have actually all been down to old Armitage Shanks. Becuase every ultimate hand to hand combat ninja madman on the planet had him. Much like that silly spear.

a plecobo i think it is.

plz also note that the title of Ultimate Hand to Hand Combat Ninja Madman on the Planet is implying i never loose, becuase obviously im the ultimate hand to hand combat ninja madman on the planet.

Your theory is all 'if's'...And I think you being the crazy ultimate, ninja, wazawizoo whatever person, means nothing...It could be a placebo, but placebos I doubt would work for great wars like the Spear has seen...

With placebos that are given to you, you are usually in control with how you act...the spear, was something you had, and people tried to kill you...with most placebos, people dont try and kill you. Therefore, a little placebo, wouldnt stop thousands of people from finding you and your men, and killing you...Mmmk pumpkin?

no see, you dont get it, i mean did you not even notice armitage???

look, the power that men apparently had when they got the spear is the placebo it would feed their minds of grandeur they would have been great and powerful men, regardless. Simple as that. its like macbeth with the three witches.

Interesting.......

I don't believe it. I'm all for God, but Christ, I think was just a simple preacher man. Not to mention carbon dating? I believe has proven the spear was made after the time of Christ.

I've only got one problem with your idea, Kortef and that's that the first guy in that list couldn't have had the spear since the oldest part (the main spear itself) has been dated to 800 AD. It was very likely created as a relic in those times and the spear itself doesn't even resemble the spear of a Roman legionnaire. For all these other great men to have had it... there are many great relics that have passed from ruler to ruler. The relics come to them because they have power.

I was wondering, if the americans knew that the nazi's did experiments with the occult and stuff like that. Wasn't there a special group of people who investigated this during WO2 in the american army?

There are other tales of the power of the spear. When the roman longinus ( the roman that stabbed christ ) the blood of christ actually dripped onto his face. Longinus, a soldier that was nearly blind from bad eyesight was instantly healed.

Longinus then became a monk, bound to the teachings of christ. It is said for his new religious believe, he was badly tortured, and his tounge was cut out. Even though they removed his tounge, he was able to speak without any problems.

Also like Kortef said, the spear was given to a lot of different leaders. According to other legends, the spear came into the hands of Herod the Great. Constantine had it for a while, even claiming he was guided by Providence, by way of the spear, in his victory at Milvian bridge, which resulted in Christianity becoming the official religion of the Holy Roman Empire. Constantine used the spear while surveying the site for his new city, Constantinople. After him, we are informed that Theodosius, the Spanish-born Emperor of the Eastern Empire had possession of it a while, as did Alaric, the Goth who sacked Rome. Theodoric, who turned back Attila's hordes, owned it for a while, as did Justinian. We are told it passed into the hands of Charles Martel, who defeated the Moslems in the Battle at Poitiers. Legend claims the lance led Charlemagne to victory in 47 battles, but the Emporper died when he accidentally dropped it. Five Saxon emperors who came after Charlemagne possessed the lance, as did seven Hohenstauffen emperors, among them Barbarossa, Frederick II and Kaiser Wilhelm. From here it was said to go to Rome, and then was sought after Napoleon, but was hidden to keep it away from him. After the threat of Napoleon died down, it was returned to Vienna Austria. Of course, shortly after that Hitler became close with the relic, and desired it. Take it people know the story from there....

yup the americans stole it, and with all the so called power it brings them, america has many enemies, is NOT the most powerful nation in the world and is billions upon billions in debt. I'd say its more like a cursed spear than anything else lol.

i just saw one on ebay

Just a simple preacher man. Would that be similar to calling The Grand Canyon a hole in the ground?

This is the utmost ignorant statement in existence to date. Un******* believeable.
You will surely burn like stubble for that blasphomy.

link, please?

hmm, maybe not a cursed spear per say, but a spear with an agenda, god's perhaps. a selective object accomplishing miracles and great deeds to those worthy and good hearted, and death and destruction to those ill willed. save any events where it let something 'good' happen to a 'bad' guy for some reason or another like longingus where he became christian after coming in contact with the spear, then you can only assume it's doing god's will. and who the hell to question that, but people of course.

also northawke, i respect your opinion yet just as this entire story, the whole dating back to 800 a.d. is all speculation until we know that that is the Exact spear, or even conclusive information. you cannot put together the pieces of a puzzle, the puzzle being this legend, only trying to connect pieces you would like to fit or think that fit, because sometimes that isn't the case.

i'm as open as you are but what we are talking about is THE actual spear of destiny, whichever one it may be, whereever it may be, it has to be from the time of christ in order to pierce his side. not whichever one that they say was only dated to 800 a.d. the legend i was talking about is the actual spear of destiny not nessacarily the one that at this very moment is in austria vienna. no offense, just trying to clarify. because for all we know, that might not be it. and back when they knew for sure where it was and that was really it (before hitler came into contact with it, or shortly after) they couldn't possibly have had the technology to be exactly sure of it's date of origin.

it was a joke lol

I tought that It was real, you never know what you'll find on ebay...
I just wanted to have a big laugh looking at that auction item...


=P

11

The lance was also mention in that budget comic movie Hellboy, but most of all it was given a 21st century makeover when it was used in the anime evangelion as the thing keeping lillith (wife/spouse of caine and 2nd angel) in place and destroying the 12th angel. See humans are baaaad!!!!

The reason Longinus was cured was because during the cruification the Jews begged for Jesus not be left suffering during the sabbath so the soliders broke the legs of both the others been cruified with Jesus and when they came to Jesus Longinus stopped them and said there was no need to break his legs as he was already dead (weather he was or if it was when Longinus peirced his side is something else) and prooved the point by stabbing Jesus with the spear. It was when the blood hit Longinus that he was cured because of his good act of not breaking his legs.

As for when hitler aqquired the spear he was shown to spears the destiny and the spear of maurice but was not told which was which and only the person holding the spears on a blakc pillow knew which one. Of course hitler chose the right one the destiny

Rumour has it the spear in Vienna is the maurice now and the spear of destiny is held in the surnateum. If anyone has anymore info on the spear please email me

Yes i do realise this thread has had no action since 2006 but one can only hope

Like any good relic, there are about a dozen of them floating around Europe. Clearly, they're all fakes, but I can get you the real Crown of Thorns for the low, low price of $14.95 plus shipping.

--Jaylemurph

The Spear of Destiny, the one Hitler took is currently in Austria. Here's a pic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Heilige_Lanze_02.JPG

That spear was supposidly the spear of Constantine, that had a nail from the crucifiction set in the blade. The gold band was added much later.

The spear that supposidly stabbed Jesus, the Spear of Longinus, is kept at the Vatican. It was supposidly given to the Vatican by the Turks after they sacked Constantinople, which had taken it from Church of the Holy Sepulchre.

Are they genuine? Who knows. The first one has been dated to the 7th century, but I don't think anyone has analyzed the nail. I don't think anyone outside the Vatican gets to see the second spear.

I'm steadily becoming more and more interested in this...

This is from memory now but the spear in the muesum in Vienna is the spear of Maurice not the spear of destiny it was a replica used for other reasons in history. The spear of destiny now lies in the saturem(sp)

You mean that like, the Spear itself has no powers, but it just encourages men to use their full potential?

nice analogy if I was in 4th grade you would be my hero

The Spear of Destiny is a fascinating artifact to me. I've read Ravencroft's book on it, which wasn't bad, but I got tired of all the new age "find yourself through mediation" stuff, I was more interested in the historical lineage of the Spear - which there was a good bit of.

Howard Buechner, a retired WWII army colonel also wrote a couple of books on the Lance. He alleges that a former Nazi agent contacted him sometime near the end of the century and informed him that the Spear that was captured by the Allies was a fake, and Hitler had the real spear sent to a secret Nazi base in Antartica, along with several other Nazi artifacts & treasures. It was recovered in '79 by a "Maximillian Hartmann", whom Hitler had supposedly entrusted hiding and recovering the spear to shortly before his death. Buechner seemed pretty convinced this scenario was true based on his contact with former high ranking Nazi officials.

Like I said, I think it's a neat, intriguing subject, and I believe that if ANYTHING has true "magic" powers to it, it would be something with the blood of Christ on it. But I don't lose too much sleep over it's authenticity. It's not like I'LL ever hold the Spear in my hands, after all.

Ah! The ever so elusive Spear of Destiny! The spear of Longinus! The almighty spear that brings great power! At a great price! The same spear that took the final blow on Christ and killed him! What a wretched fate. Every person who possessed the Spear of Destiny ened up the same way..... dead! And that is because of the power it holds! Obviously if it was powerful enough to take the life of Christ, then it is powerful enough to take the life of anything. Hitler possessed it at one time, and he almost gained the whole world! But in the end he killed himself. So no, I have no clue where the spear might be. But it was probly buried with Hitler until he was cremated..... Who knows where it could be now? They either found it and locked it away. Or a Nazi found it and took it. My great-grandfather was one of Hitlers right hand men, I'm not proud of this fact, but he fled to south america, idk..... maybe my great-grandfather took it and put it somewhere in south america..... idk..... but all I know is that it's out there somewhere and someone needs to find it and lock it away

Link to the other thread(s) about SOD please? I'd love to read them too. The first I heard of it was, believe it or not, from watching 'Constantine'.

*points to the big button marked "Search".

--Jaylemurph

That's believable. Constatine dealt with biblical uh...content (?), Holy Spear is holy. I, myself heard of it from Final Fantasy (again, psuedo-biblical).

According to Wikipedia, it IS indeed in a Vienna Museum.

the thing with the spear is that even if htey date it to jesus' time they still can't prove that its hte one that stabbe him unless they can DNA test it or something (the blade not hte spear itself), and even then they wouldn't know if it was his or not. best guess would probably be to compare it to that found on the Shroud of Turin.

Sounds like the Master Sword from Zelda or something. Very interesting!

I have no doubt this isn't real but it is still interesting nonetheless.

Either way there really isnt any way to prove whether or not the spear actually had pierced Jesus' body.

That is true wikipedia does say that. However the guy who wrote that probs also wrote the battlestar galactica episode guide

The spear in vienna is NOT the spear of destiny,It is a replica.


so,the vienna spear dates back from 7th century = replica

More according to Wiki:



Option #1: The true Spear of Destiny is preserved under the dome of Saint Peter's Basilica since 1492



this same lance,many years later:


Under any circumstance,we know that the lance returned by General S. Patton is a FAKE,as the tests of Dr. Robert Feather have shown.
Hence an explication for this may be:




Option #2: the true Spear of Destiny is hidden somewhere in Europe by a Nazi Secret Society.


Now,which one is the real spear?
the vatican relic or the kept secret by the nazi society?

Considering the relic in the vienna museum dates back from the 7th century,this would mean that IF Buechner's theories are correct,Hitler had in his possesion both the original Spear AND the replica from the 7th century.
Since there is nowhere a mention of 2 spears,It seems that hitler DID NOT sent the spear to anarctica but that it was really recovered by General Patton.
(simply because if hitler would have hidden the real spear,and lost the replica..this replica would date back from Hitler's time..and not from the 7th century..)


Answer:The true Spear of Destiny is preserved under the dome of Saint Peter's Basilica since 1492

hello, could you reedit this poat and break it down in paragraphs??

OP. also look up the Thule organization and its context in relation to your topic

The poster of that reply hasn't been around the board for almost 18 months, so I wouldn't be expecting an edit any time soon.



Cz

oh lol........cant read solid blocks of letters unless put on a double pair of glasess ...maybe....

Thule, the place mentioned by greek Pytheas in 330BC, is most likely Norway =) He describes the midnight sun etc which we got there and I don't see how he could know about something like that unless he actually went there or had met someone from there which shows signs of interesting ancient migration / explorations.

The Nazis were searching for this place as it was supposed to be the main area of the aryan race. Some even speculate that Thule and Atlantis is the same (I doubt that myself though).

The Thulse Society itself was inspired by this and also held this belief and search for this place and were involved with occult practices. They were also involved with the theosophes. The theosophs further expanded and developed the idea that Thule and Atlanis was the same and also believed the Aryans came from Atlantis and were part of a so called "Root race".

Interesting to check up, I saw a good documentary about it some time ago but can't remember the name. But guess you can find pretty much on it from google anyway, some reliable and plenty that is not.

-EA