(if this is not the right forum then I'm sorry, feel free to move it)

Ok, I could never understand this one.

I'm not very knowledgable of all the Masonry History but I know a bit about the Knight Templars' History (I mean, the factual unbiased History). Now is there anyone who can explain me how come the Templars be in the origin of the Masonry? These are the main reasons why I think this is propagandistic bulls***:

1. There is nothing in the whole templar history (factual or theoric) that denotes any trace of anti-monarchism. God damnit, there were even Templar kings, kings' first generals, kings' right hands. And there was never any case of treason. But the Masons are completely anti-monarchics.

2. Freemasons are libertarians, the templars were the extreme theocrats, full stop.

3. The masons are anti-clerical. The templars were part of the clergy.

4. Even after the protestantism the templars remained catholic. The masons can be more easily indentified as protestants than as catholics (there are calvinists, anglicans and lutherans amongst their ranks but there are no catholics).

5. Most masons are either atheists, believe in whatever has the word 'god' before its name which is by itself contraditory with the whole Templar ideology.

These are just the basic issues, there are many more.

Sorry to burst some of your bubbles, but you have some bad information.

1. The Templar heirarchy is NOT pro-monarchy... but it is not PRO-anythng. It was merely a martial order of knights that sought and was granted a Papal writ to legally carry the Christian Cross on its arms. Your comments above make it sound like they were pro-monarchy and I wanted to nip that quickly

2. You are spot on.

3. The Freemasons are NOT anti-clerical. They require a belief in a Supreme Being to be a member, but there is no restriction on being a member of a religious heirarchy. At the same time, the Templars were NOT party of the clergy. The Templars were a military order, and had no part in worship or the administration of the Church... they were guards and militia and ran armies - NOT the spiritual lives of the population.

4. Yes, the Templars were a Catholic organization... as that was really the ONLY Church at the time, outside of a couple old sects (remnants of the Cathar, etcetera). Even the word "Catholic" means "Church"... When the Templars were founded, there weren't any other options. Secondly, there are MANY Catholic Freemasons. Yes, as far as I have been able to see, the Protestant's outnumber Catholics rather handily. I would guess that if the edict came out to remove all Catholic Freemasons, we would lose about 20% of our membership.

And, before you say anything, yes, I KNOW the Pope has banned membership and has guaranteed excommunication to any Catholic that takes the Obligation of a Master Mason. Just because it is "banned" doesn't mean that people will refrain from doing it (just look at stop signs!!).

5. Sorry, but Freemasons cannot, repeat: can NOT be atheists. They HAVE to be religious. There is no requirement as to who or what the deity is, but there has to be "something" out there for the member to believe in. Sure, there are many that are more agnostic than really religious, but there is very little chance that there is a measurable number of Freemasons that are atheists.

Furthermore, the Templars weren't that religious. Yes, they supported the Judeo/Christian deity, and prayed to Jesus as the son of God, but they were more non-denominational than legitimately Catholic. Had they been organized today, they would be Unitarian, if anything. Considering the rites and rituals that the Templars used and researched, they were more Deist than Christian.