I need some help i have been doing this one thing
for years and i need to know if it is astral travel.

Some times when i am in between being asleep and
awake i will see two flashing lights in a dark backround.
The one light is blue and the other is yellow. the lights
will begin to move and slam into each other then disapate
then crash in to each other again. After a couple times
when the lights slam into eachother they form images
of creature or lands that will disapate. then the lights
will apear and slam into each other. the things i see
seem so real that i can reach out and thouch them.
After it is over i have splitting headaches.

Please don't think am crazy.

I have a question of my own now. I have been reading up on lucid dreaming, specifically the WILD technique. The symptoms for the WILD technique of inducing lucid dreams are very similar to those of Astral Projection- flashing lights, hearing sounds, vibrations, flickering eyes, etc.

It is said that Astral Projection and Lucid Dreaming share very similar symptoms. But towards the end of the transition for lucid dreaming (the vibrations, lights, sounds, etc.), you don't end up out of body. You end up entering a dream.

People say that there is a thin border between using WILD and Astral Projection.

http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=12621

The link is to a tutorial for how to WILD.

I am afraid to hear one of the following:

-Astral Projection is nothing more than WILD.

-WILD is mistaken for dreaming, when it is actually Astral Projection.

If they are both different things, can someone explain why you go through the same process and similar symptoms? And how do I avoid projecting, or dreaming (depending on which one I want to do)?

No you're not crazy, I think that you're having one of those wild dreams before you start to exit your body because I get that most of the time when I attempt Astral Projection about a week 1/2 ago I had a very vivid dream of bats and it was about 3 or 4 moons and they were pushing them away to some place when they push the last moon away it became pitch dark then I woke up paralyzed, vibrating with my ears wooshing then I started to exit my body.

I've tried to astral travel for years...I get violent jerks....How can I get myself to stop this and move on?

Jan

Phew! I told myself not to reply until I read all the pages and luckily I'm finished now. On my first attempt of this, I didn't set an alarm till 4 in the morning cause I'd school the next morning. But I tried anyway when I got really tired, around 1 in the morning after lying in bed for ages. I think I was getting the vibrations for a while and was at it for a while but struggled to keep my eyes closed and when I opened them, the feeling faded away and I was feeling really weak, low energy, shaking a bit. Nothing really happened the second night but on the third, I was again trying at 1 in the morning and it wasn't as good as the first night but I fell asleep within a minute after I stopped trying. When I woke up, I was completely opposite from the first night, I had far too much energy.
The reason this felt unusual is because there was a noticed comparrisson between the first and third night events. Should I have been feeling this weak sometimes and (even though I was getting even less sleep during those days) why I suddenly had extreme energy waking up. (Seriously, nearly 15 pull-ups in the morning and I can just manage 8 after breakfast and dinner! ) Is this anyway normal, especially so early into trying?

Lately ive been trying to astral travel but
every time i get jerked back, and
in panic i lose concentration.

Does anyone have tips on how to avoid this?

I actually can put myself into the passenger seat of another car when im stuck in a traffic jam..found out yesterday ..
had to jerk myself back into the car when horns started blaring because i wasnt moving....god these threads are anal!
......b



halfhandshuffle:slayer-jihad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv3TudB5J10

[quote][/quote


[quote]



i am no expert on OBE, because believe me, ive been trying it for a period of time now to no avail. i dont know. maybe im not trying hard enough or maybe its just not for me. im not giving up, yet, though.

i dont think WILD is the same as OBE. because if it is...damn!..... i should have been able to project an OBE for ages!

when i first read this post, just two days ago, i have come to understand what WILD means and i was so surprise to know what it is. i can do WILD at will like since forever! and i dont think it is OBE. it isnt like how the poeple would describe it. far from it. no offence guys but i dont find WILD that amazing. kinda boring. its pretty easy, i thought everyone can do it. i have always been a dreamer. i mean, i can remember a great deal of my dreams. i have always been fascinated by them but sometimes im at odds with deciphering them, though sometimes im the one controling what comes next in the dream.

if you get the same sensation in OBE when you WILD, how come i cannot project the OBE? im confused, please enlighten me.
please fellas, post some suggestive technique for OBE. thnx

WILD is a technique used to induce lucid dreaming and dream control. There are other techniques like MILD. WILD is Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming, meaning you don't fall unconscious- you go directly from the waking state to the dreaming state. MILD is when you make yourself believe you can dream and know you are dreaming, and during the dream, you will realise you are dreaming.

WILD is stranger than MILD. When you use the WILD technique (and if you are successful), you can trick your body into going into Sleep Paralysis. From there it is said you can enter a dream, or astral project. My goal is currently to Lucid Dream and not astral travel. I want to learn things in an order, so I don't want to attempt astral travel until I feel ready. When you're doing WILD, you may go through a variety of stages/symptoms. Seeing lights, hearing noises, feeling vibrations, etc. It struck me how similar the process and signs/symptoms for WILD and for astral travel were. Since I have not astral traveled before, I cannot say the end result feels and is the same. That is why I'm wondering

I have experienced astral projection more than once and I have felt the symptoms. And I gotta say I always get the sh** scared out of me. The times that I remember the most is when I was young.I didnt do this on purpose. I was flying through the air and all I could see was clouds below. It felt "real" I could feel the wind and see the city below. But I was in a unfamilar area. But then I felt a jerk and I awoke in mid air and I dropped to my bed. Thats what scared me. Then there was another time when I was about 6 or 7 and I was floating over my bed and out of no where I see these giant glowiing white eyes and once again I jerked and awoke in mid air and fell to my bed. I was about 2 inches off, but I think my body jumped because of fear or something. And I have had several other experiences where I had tried but I would feel a jerk and I would wake up. My heart would be beating and I would be scared sh**less.
But I really didnt become aware of what it was in tell I read sylvia browns book. But a few days ago I had a hypnotist come to my school and he got me interested in the whole thing. So I researched it, and founf out that you could hypnotize yourself. So yesterday night I gave it a try and found myself trying to astro project again and I kept being pulled out of the hypnotic state due to the jerking and I actually didnt think anything of it at the time.

Yeah that is enough to scare you if you don't know what's going on I've just got done reading Sylvia Browne's book on Phenomenon and her book of Dreams I've had a flying dream earlier and woke up paralyzed and feeling rigid I've been trying for 8 months had a few experiences both good and bad but now when I get out my astral body can move I just float 3-6 feet above my body before it reels me back in.

Im gonna give a try tonight. Hopefully I can make it out of my house. Im hoping my brother can get through to so I can be completely positive that it worked. But last night I kept almost astral projecting. But do to the fear I was fealing at the moment. I wouldnt let myself. I kept jerking every time I started to feel this vibration fealing. Since it has been so long that I have dont it could someone tell me what it feels like. It has been years, I was only about 7 when I did it last time. Over ten years ago. Is it suppose to feal like a dream or what?

im also going to give it a try tonight..... im not sure if ill set my alarm clock to 4 tho i might just try it with out setting it and if it doesnt work tomarrow ill set it to 4 and try it

Depends if you're aware of it or now but if you're aware it doesn't feel like a dream but on one early July of 2006 (4:45am) of when I all of the sudden became aware in my dream and I was being pulled at this blazing rate of speed and then about 2 minutes later I woke up with a jolt and I felt as if I was slammed into my bed and I had electrical like surges of energy going across my back with the buzzing/humming sounds my body vibrating and not to forget the paralysis and that's what made me got some books on the topic of Astral Projection before I just had the heaviness on my chest and the sleep paralysis but I've never been awaken the way I did last year then that made me believe in Astral Projection. ( I had always believed in near death experiences and out of body experiences but I though that you had to suffer a bad accident or trauma to get those I didn't know at the time that it happens naturally sometimes in your sleep)

But it depends on how aware and conscious you are during the experience if you're not aware of it and you astral project in your sleep you'll perceive it as a dream but if you're conscious of it you'll perceive it as a natural reality.

I am not sure if this is considered Astral Projection or not but one night last summer I was lying down on my couch just relaxing, not trying to fall asleep but just relax and think for a bit. Then the top of my head felt really cold and I stared rising up to the ceiling. I seemed to be going really fast and just stopped just before I got to the ceiling. I looked down and couldn't see myself because it was to dark in the room. But the moonlight was shining through the window and I could see the outline of my cat sitting on the window sill looking out of the window. After what seemed like about 10 seconds it felt like I fell back down. I opened my eyes and sat up. My cat was where I seen him but yet he was not in the room when I first layed down.

I never had any kind of Astral Projection before this, never tried actually... and it hasn't happened since.
I been thinking about trying to do it again though.

Yeah you did astrally projected in Robert Monroe's book Ultimate Journey he describes how he unknowingly did a relaxation technique and some how popped out of his body just only after a few moments apoun laying down on his couch and relaxing.

That what I do when I try astral projection I lay on my bed and just relax.

I been up all night reading this thread... Some very interesting info. I don't recall any vibration feelings but my head was really cold and tingly. Ever since that day I have heard a loud "pop" sound once in a while when in a relaxed mode. It is really loud an sounds like it is coming from inside my head, like my brain exploding or something. Sometimes I see images of people flash in front of me, like flashcards. I don't recogniz any of them, but they flash so quickly I don't really get a chance to "view" them.

When I was younger I did hear someone scream my name once. But I don't think it was anything negative because it actually saved my life. I worked the midnight shift and was driving home one morning and I could feel myself about to doze off at the wheel. I heard someone scream my name really loud and it startled me... when I snapped out of it I found myself driving on the wrong side of the road and a semi truck coming right at me. If it wasn't for that voice screaming at me I might not be alive today. I will never forget that day and that voice.

I have heard voices while laying down to take a nap. They are like hearing thoughts but I am not the one thinking them. Most seem ok but there have been a couple that seemed negative, but didn't really scare me.

One time I hear as clear as can be, like someone was in the room with me: "My son Joshua"
I do not know anyone named Joshua or anyone that has a son named Joshua. Who is Joshua?

One morning as I was waking up I heard in a soft whispering voice: "Blood, blood, I want your blood."
The voice was almost a pleasant sounding voice, except for the words, or course. I just rolled over and went back to sleep and it went away.

I was having troubles sleeping one night and I heard someone say "Hey, guess what?" I replied with "not now, I am trying to get some sleep." It went away...

I have heard mumbles and sounds that I couldn't quite make out, and what sounds like multiple people having a conversation in the room that I am in.

All of this, with the exception of my name being screamed when I was younger, happened after my surprise AP.

well i gave it a try and i couldnt quite get my mind cleared but after a while i got my mind cleared and i was visualizing and what not and then i just started hearing screaming im not real sure if it has anything to do with astral travel but thats what happend

and then for somereason i couldnt clear my mind again so i just went to bed but ill try it again for a couple of nights

Here something I been wondering about...
When we AP do we go to the same plane that we go to when we die? So basically what we do when we AP we can do when we "pass over?"

That's an interesting thought. I imagine it's not the exact place we go to when we die but we have 'access' to go there if we want to. As mentioned near the start of this topic, some people who astral travel sometimes talk to their deceased loved ones.

Ok has anyone ever heard of there being a place you can go or someone you can talk to while being in astral projection that can give you information on things you dont understand?

hey Socrates or anybody who knows the answer just a question since thiers to many pages and i dont want to read them all to see if anyone already asked this wich im sorry if they did and you have to repeat yourself

when you astral travel and people are calling your name or you hear screaming and whatever when you leave and go some where far off can you still hear them?

just a thoght

I still have a few more extra questions.Sorry if these questions have already been asked but:

1.What does the astral plane look like? Does it look like normal or is there a definite difference in appearance.
2.


Does this mean I would have to fall asleep to do it or is it a last resort in case you begin to fall asleep? I have seen several other sites that say that you must put your whole body asleep.

3.What would happen if while you were out of your body and someone in the real world tried to talk to you? Would your body reply or would you just be silent?

Thanks for any answers you can give me.

Hey I think I can help a little. From what I have heard you can communicate with others while they are in the "astral plain" and you can see them. There also should be aspirit guide that is there to guide you. But as for how it looks. In my experience it looked like the normal world.

I wonder, as mentioned before, the differences between WILD and astral travel- since they have so many similarities. I doubt they are the same thing. But since their symptoms are the same, I wonder at what point they differ.

It´s been quite awhile since I posted in this thread. Socrates is hardly a frequent to his own creation anymore, and I can't believe that it has become 82 pages long.

So why has Socrates been gone, hardly here to answer your questions? We all know of his 4-o'clock method. I'm sure many, many of you have tried it. How many people have succeeded? I sure haven't. Early on, in fact, I noted that he was quoting Sylvia Browne, a woman who comes off as a complete but skilled, money-making fraud. I must admit, the 4 o'clock method sounds reasonable, but people should try other ways.

Of course, I don't suggest using the method Socrates proposed at all, or anything he's told you about astral travel. No, I'm not an expert, but Socrates could very well be deceiving and, as Biomage said on page one, right here at the thread's start, he is using brainwashing to achieve astral projection. In fact, I'm going to come right out and say I don't believe a word Socrates says anymore. I've been a close contact of his for nearly a year now, and he has proven to me that he may try and know what he's talking about, but it is very likely he's never even astral projected before, and you all believe that he has.

What makes me say this? How many times he's lied to me, and all of us. He's tried to remote view on me before -- there was a thread about it before -- and all the information he got about me I believed at first, I was shocked, but then he knows my name and could have easily found it on the net, as I later did. And so last night I challenged him to try it again, and so he tried, and came up with the same easily findable information. He was so slow and quiet, that I checked out of curiosity, and you know what? Socrates wasn't remote viewing, he was on my UM PROFILE trying to find information about me! You can look at my profile views and see he was there last night, right when we had a nice little chat. That's a pretty dishonest move, saying he could remote view and then trying to find info about me on the internet and call it remote viewing. What makes you think his astral projection is any different? I thought he was my honest friend, but then I don't consider liars and cheaters my friends.

How many people here do you think he's cheated? Oh, plenty. How about you click This link and go to his UM thread about his art ability and how he can draw all these heroes by request. Read the posts, see how good he is, then go to the last page. In fact, he was lying the whole time. He never used MAXDRAW [Isn't even a real program!] or preliminary sketches to draw characters for you! He was actually using Hero Machine 2 and lying to you to make you believe that he could draw that well. That's two big lies. You can go to that link I sent and make a hero just like Socrates yourself. And this thread would make 82 pages more of possible deception.

I'm not saying everything from his mouth is a lie, but when I first met him he was fifteen, now he's magically twenty-four. On his thread about remote viewing to find a number, he says he can't tell you where he lives because his neighborhood is blurred on google earth. I'm not saying Socrates is a criminal, but look what he's done to you. You believe him so much, and he has made himself look so good with threads like the hero request thread, that you don't even think of disbelieving him. If you go in his profile you'll see plenty of comments, all begging him to return so people can learn more about astral travel -- no wonder no one has gotten results like him, because all he's done is lied and probably never been to the astral plane before himself! You don't need tobelieve everything I say, but he has lied to me so many times, and I've caught him lying to all of you, that you need to question what he says. He is not some all-knowing philosopher, like his name seems to imply. He is really just a kid living in New Zealand [or so I hope] that wants friends, and instead has gotten a whole following of them, through horrible ways.

Take what I have to say into consideration before you beg him for more knowledge of the astral plane ever again, or tell him your personal details. The internet is a dangerous place.

"The visionary lies to himself, the liar only to others."

Right, I tried this last night for the first time, and I got half-way there. I got stiff and I felt a texture like massage therapy shoes all over me and I was shocked out because I wasn't expecting it, really, I was like 'What da 'ell?!'

I'm going to try again tonight.

His method is a decent method, and just because he's lied before doesn't mean he is this time. After all, we're getting results.

And so you blindly trust liars, regardless of past actions? It isn´t so much that his astral method is false, my friend; it is that by listening to him you are furthering his motives, and following him like sheep. As much as you forget to question him, and put blind trust in him, he could tell you something that would become dangerous. Does he confess to his lies to us all? The question is not why we should not believe him, but why we should. He fooled you completely more than once before, and unless you take to heart what I have said, he can and most likely will do it again.

Hello all, I discovered this thread through a Google search on astral travel. I have tried for manymany years, and have had many lucid flying dreams during the course of the night, but my stumbling block is fear -- I have a family and an iffy heart, so I'm scared that if something goes wrong I won't be there for my family. I realize this is probably paranoia on my part and my desire to fly is SO very strong that I need to work past my fear... but that's why I haven't been able to do it so far. I'm glad Socrates has been able to somewhat help me allay my fears and I'll try again tonight.

I have had many experiences of my astral self floating freely but being anchored by my head, so that when I lay down with my eyes closed it feels like I'm floating at about a 45-degree angle. I assume this is a partial separation, it's a very distinct and real feeling that is unmistakable, but I can't seem to detach from my head when it happens.

The one technique that has worked for me during lucid dreaming is to look down at myself and kick off forcefully, like a repelling force is jetting me away backwards from myself. During flight dreams I always have to kick off, simply floating up or whatever never works for me. Just data points for people to chew on, don't know if it means anything.

As for animals, I have projected myself into animals (and even people) many times, but not a full astral projection, more like my consciousness. Something like Beastmaster -- I can see through their eyes and partially control them, but I'm always in the "back seat" of the animal and not conscious of my body at all. I can also somewhat project my consciousness out around myself and see what's going on around me, but it's very shadowy and the further away I try to get the more difficult it is.

From what I can tell, the people are not aware of my being there other than a very slight confusion, but they carry on like usual if a bit slower... like having trouble finding the right words while in conversation, a bit confused. I hope this makes sense. I can also confuse people as they are speaking and make them forget what they were saying. I discovered that in high school (mumble) years ago and have to turn my attention elsewhere when it happens so the other person can get back on track with what they were going to say.

Well anyway, now I'm getting off topic. I look forward to checking out the rest of this board, it looks interesting.

OH one final question -- music or no music? I find that I naturally feel a much higher spirit vibration when listening to music, it affects me VERY deeply on an intense soul level (depending on what music it is, of course). I've compiled a mix for my iPod titled "Flight" of songs I feel will help me in this regard, but some "experts" say NO music when trying to project. BUT I always feel closer to projecting when I'm listening to music, like "Inner Universe" by Yoko Kanno, for example. Opinions?

Thanks, everyone. Peace to you.

Dear all -

What Raven speaks is the truth - I have been in contact with him for over a year and have decieved and lied to him time after time. But only for my own enjoyment - after all Raven, you are quite gullable.

I don't see how our relationship of playful deciet over MSN messenger has anything to do with astral projection and my method. As for Sylvia Browne, I am unfamiliar with her work, but will certainly look her up.

Thanks,
Socrates

Woah, you're a slick talker, aren't you Socrates? Doesn't it lend a thought that maybe if you enjoy lying to an individual so grandly, that you'd get enjoyment out of lying to 83 pages worth of people? Mentally sadistic of you.

Excuse me, my kind sir. Flip back to page two and reassert that you are unfamiliar with her works. Also, I would appreciate if you quit deceiving The Raven, and as Bio-Mage said, using brainwashing techniques for astral travel.

Well he didn't lie about the existence of Astral Projection nor the interrupted sleep technique.
I get results from the interrupted sleep and the meditation and visualization techniques.

Oh really? Then how come I was never aware of this, Harrison? I treated you as a friend and equal -- I thought we could learn from each other. Instead you fed me lies and half truths, I suppose it is misplaced trust. Yet I am not the only one you have done this to, and seemingly everyone has fallen for it. Maybe your method brings some sort of result, but how we do we know that other things you tell us about the astral are not completely false, and could in some way hurt us? No one would know until after they were burned, because everyone believes every word that comes out of your mouth like it is from the mouth of God himself. You have them so wrapped up in your web, not yet has a person who has read my argument responded against -- they are indifferent to your inherently wicked nature.

As long as Socrates keeps providing you milk, you will continue to wean like newborn lambs. Be wary of the poison he has thus mixed in within it.

i've never tried socrates technique, never was keen on waking up 4 oclock in the morning with the alarm clock waking up the family.

thanks for telling us that raven, if that happened to me..it be like a spit on the face.

ok i'm a new member, just joined this forum because of the TOPICS i have read here, very interesting. i have a question but first i have to tell my story/experience

one afternoon while reading a book, i felt drowsy ( while thinking of being someplace else ) then suddenly without knowing i fell asleep. i realize my self on the place i was thinking before i fell asleep. while walking and enjoying the view. suddenly i fell of a cliff. i screamed fearing i would die then out of nowhere i found my self sitting with pain in my legs and chest. i've encountered / experienced that feeling of falling in Cliffs, Buildings, and many more...

i would like to know if it was OBE's / AP ? or just a dream?

THANKS!! i really would like to read your reply Socrates

- rayman / kretos

And so before you hit the ground, you awoke to where you were previously reading, with a phantom pain? To me, this sounds like a simple, vivid dream; if you were in control of the dream, it could have been a lucid dream, which is a topic I highly suggest you research! Many people have, but personally, in a dream I have fallen and hit before, and I have been poisoned with chlorine gas and not woken up after, and instead continued my dream after my dream death. Very strange experience. However you can rest assured that your experience sounds like a simple dream or nightmare if you'd call it that. For how long were you asleep?

Also, Kretos, Socrates takes forever to respond, and if you have read my previous posts, I would not trust the information he gives you, as everything he got me to believe he now has confessed was a lie. If you need any help with dreams or have questions, you can ask me or other trustworthy members, who will not lie to you and give you the best of our knowledge.

I would have to agree with The Raven in saying that I think it was just a dream. I've been studying lucid dreaming for about a month now, which isn't long in this type of field, but I have gained a lot of knowledge. People who lucid dream intentionally (or by accident) tend to report senses even after waking up. I don't know if you can feel pain in astral travel, as I read you can go through solid objects, but in dreams, your mind can do almost anything. Feel pain, feel emotions, see outer space, etc.

There was one thing I read on another forum about someone who heard a loud noise in his lucid dreams. The noise would not go away (in his entire dream, not upon awakening), and he was afraid his ears would be damaged. Of course, in dreams, it's all in your mind. It will not affect his physical/real ears at all. Though the loud noise may be a big annoyance.

A more relevant example is about a person who had a nightmare in a lucid dream, "defeated" the nightmare's character, and demanded a gift (obviously these gifts are symbolistic and are a way to make a negative nightmare, into something posititive- a way to defeat your nightmates, to put it simply). The person received music as this gift, and as this person awoke, he could still hear it until he was fully awake. The music was not scary or anything, but rather positive, and seemingly inspirational.

Your experience seems to have just been something negative. You can "train" and grow experienced in Lucid Dreaming, and learn to take control of your dreams, but it may take a lot of practicing. It is often confused with astral travel, because even symptoms for lucid dreaming correlate with those of astral travel. In Wake Initiated Lucid Dreaming, you may see lights, feel vibrations, etc.

Hope you find the correct answers. This is just what I think you've experienced.

I think there is something odd about this feud with Raven and Socrates. I think they are linked some how. I find it odd how this all came about. It just seems a little off that socrates decided to spill the beans because of this one guy. Or he just strives for attention.

In my opinion
I think they are the same person and I think Raven is doing this to make himself look like some kind of "hero"...........
Like he is saving us from believing (socrates) or something.........

Maybe. It is valid...

Astral travel is a great interest to me, but for some reason I've never wanted to post in this thread, it gives me a sick feeling. This feud has made it interesting though, so I'll post.

I've never tried the 4 am method, and don't plan on it. Waking up like that doesn't sound fun...especially to an alarm clock.

I believe in astral travel and there's many ways to do it.

You can do it through lucid dreaming, I think this is the most common way people do it.

I've recently discovered that staring at certain runes can cause it. It was really amazing when I did this. While staring at it I could feel my astral body moving out towards it. I could see rainbows of colors over most of the objects in the room, among other things. I was fully awake when this happened.

It can also be done through sleep paralysis, but after discovering other ways to do it, the SP method isn't as good.

Nice post count. Just cought my eye.
666

Thanks for your reply.. hope to see you again sometime. i'm gonna try the method. but gonna change something. by not waking up that early!

Excuse me vice, I would know if my own boyfriend is a 15 year old kid from New Zealand with two accounts just looking for attention. By the way, for my own personal benefit, I tried his astral projection technique. Yeah, got nothin'. I get more results from sleeping with amethyst and sugilite in my pillowcase than I do from this method. Vice, please do not accuse The Raven of being Socrates in disguise as you have no premise...

When we assume, we make an.... well, you get the rest.

Vice, I am sad to say that this post made me angrier than anything Socrates has tried to do to me. I´ve tried so hard to make you believe me and then you prove that he has you so wrapped up in his web, that you won't even question him and accuse me of trying to be some sort of hero BECAUSE I WANT TO HELP YOU. I'm not going to force you to believe me, but you have just said the most hurtful thing anyone could have said to me. I am completely disgusted with you. Yet I can do nothing more. I only speak the truth, and the truth is, Socrates does lust for attention and friends, because his life outside the computer is wholly lacking of them. In the internet world he has power, and he has just proved he sure as hell as power over you.

WFR: "People are stupid. They will believe whatever they want or fear to be true."

If you really need proof, look up my posts all around the board, you will not only notice we have different personalities, but I look completely different, I have been here over a year longer than he has, I am a respected member and the good friend of many people on this board. Look at my signature. Yup, that's right, it's Morian and myself together in person. Would explain why we have the same signature and why I'm not that crazy New Zealand teen you revere as a God. To think that you accuse me of being Socrates is so vile that there is no emotion I can display but sickness. Good thing this is a family friendly forum, otherwise Socrates would have gotten it a whole lot worse by now.

Did you even read what I said.......... I didnt say I didnt believe you. I do, he said so himself. What I did say was I think you to are the same person. Just by how this unfolded. Someone trying to create conflict.

It isn't the fact that you believe me, Vice, it's the fact that you think I'm Socrates! What else can I do to prove to you I am not him, and in fact, I HATE HIM? If I was in New Zealand he'd be getting more than one "knuckle pudding". I don't know why he admitted to it, what else was he going to do? He'd be ruined more if he denied it and then we found out it was true. He's looking out for his best interests like that punk always does. Always looking to be in power over others. Look what he's done to YOU!

Okay first of all, I would like to apologize to you and for the double post. I may be wrong but I was just going with my instinct. I never said that was true. I really dont understand why your getting defensive. It was just a theory. But socrates has done nothing to me as far as "wrapping me up".......... For a short period I thought he was someone who was displaying his knowledge to help people. But once again sorry for any anger or disgusted fealing I have caused you.

Alright. I'm sorry to have gotten overly defensive, but this is something I strongly believe in, and people need to know what Socrates has in his hidden agenda. I'm not the only one he's fooled; he's fooled all of us, and he can do it again just as soon. It hurts to find out one of your friends has been a completely fake person through every one of your discussions.