The Alagash incident is interesting in many ways. Many victims, four. They are often called the Alagash four. Two are identical twin brothers. The most intriguing thing that keeps to the front of my mind is that they signaled to the saucer with their flashlight. Never signal at these things is the lesson learned in this crazy abduction story. And just as with Betty and Barney Hill, the memory of the event was wiped from them and only came out in dreams over the next two years. The alien's seem to have a problem getting the human mind to delete info from the sleeping/dreaming mind area. You would think they could fix this problem with all the advancement they obviously have.
There is a book, THE ALAGASH ABDUCTIONS it is quite good. For any hunters and fisherman out there in the boonies, keep your flashlights off.

Alagash, ________???

allagash maine dude

c'monnnnnn

That's what I was wondering... I knew there was an Alagash, Maine. But there are usually city names that exist in multiple states, so I was just making sure...BTW Chunga, it is Maine right?

I've never heard of this.

I read a bit about it on the following links just now:

http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/a1999/mar/alagash.htm

http://c3215.allcd.us/item_b0002drdwi.html <- from this link I found that this particular case was also discussed on the old NBC show that used to be on called : "Unsolved Mysteries UFO's ".
Netflix also has this particular episode (a 4 disc series for this) and I plan to get it. Sounds quite interesting.

Thank you for posting this Chunga!

Allagash Mountains in Northern Maine. In 1976 Four friends from college went as they did each year for 5 years on a 2 week long fishing/hunting trip deep into the woods.
One night after building an emense fire so they could find there camp again along the lakeshore they headed out in a canoe on the lake, they had only been out 5 minutes or so in the middle of the night when they saw a bright light off to the west of the lake just hovering over the treeline. One of them thought to signal to the light with a flashlight and in under a second the ship was over them and the whole lake was lit up like day. The next thing was mad rowing for shore , then they were all standing around the fire that was no more a fire but just ashes smoldering. The fire they built should of taken 4 hours to burn out. They didnt talk, they all went into their tents and slept til morning. The rest of the trip went like normal and no one talked about the fire or the light or any of it. Then about one year after the incident one started to have flashbacks about being abducted and being in a ship with the others and aliens. He did not tell anyone , not his wife or the other 3. Then one day one of them asked one of the others about the dreams he had had and wondered if anything like it was occuring to them. They all had the dreams for two years and so they went to a regression therapist and recounted identical stories and all passed polygraph tests. They still have issues to this day about it .
The Allagash Abductions the allagash four.....Rayomond L. Fowler

This is an incredible story.

Thank you for taking the time to sum all that up ... It is very interesting... Almost (almost) like the Travis Walton case...But this happened in my home-state, even better

hasnt been debunked yet that i know of

wait a lil bit ....ive heard of this case it seemed credible to me.

indeed, good observation. from all the stories i've read (and of course the percentage of true stories is probably very small) the two things you do not want to do when approaching a "ufo" is do not emit em pulses (light) or do not have guns on your person in close proximity to the object, and certainly do not fire on them. now the question is why does light get such a response? something as weak even as a flashlight? that is really intrigueing.

the weiner brothers , who are artists, have excellent second hand information that one can view. they attempted to draw their experiences , and quite well too i may add. it is definetly an interesting story, and adds but one more microscopic piece to this enigmatic puzzle.


but i believe in this case, the ufo was not discoid, but rather, spherical.

nice post chunga

Good post. Very interesting read.

That's weird. I watch unsolved mysteries when I can... I don't think I've ever seen anything about aliens on that show.

out of curiosity, what bad happened to them beyond missing their canoe on the lake?

well i seem to recall they had missing time

I have added some images and pics of the four and some of their drawings.
They were examined and other probative things. Its the aftermath like with the Hill case that is the worst for these victims. Years and years of mental torture and destruction of what they believed about the world. Whitely Strieber had to hold on tight not to lose his mind after his awakening abduction.

You will find the pics in my earlier posts in this thread.

If that's really what is so bad about alien abductions, I must say that the human race is lucky they're not more aggressive and willing to shatter our fragile conception of the world.

As far as abduction case studies are concerned, this one is a gem. The twins have even admitted to past abductions previous to Allagash. And, the one twin built a house that resembles the craft he believed he was taken to.
Just listen to them tell their story... Jack Weiner, especially, is so human about it; he nervously laughs, questions himself, and cries when he tells it.

Their case will never be debunked.

I remember watching it occassionally when it was on (I think NBC cancelled the show in 1996?) although I can't remember anything about aliens or abductions. However, I do remember them discussing over various UFO's. One such episode they had on was a UFO that was filmed in California (the state just south from me here) It was filmed around the same time I video taped one here. I was shocked - but was also relieved I was not the only one.

I can't wait to get the 4 disc series on this from Netflix. The reviews are not bad on this either.

very interesting

excellent point. if abductions do occur by some other life form, then it does make one wonder why it is that they havent been more destructive with it then "they" have been. is this proof of benevolency by these "beings"? like all things i suppose its how one looks at it, from the wholistic view point, like you have said, it could be much worse. however, from the individual stand point it can be devistating.

perhaps there is something within this as well that leads some insight into the "captors" thought process, if they do indeed exist.

perhaps a more wholistic or synoptic form of cultural morals? perhaps these cases indicate that the "captors" attempt to minimize the damage for fear of damaging the social fabric of the captured person, being that they may view the whole is greater than the parts?

good post tokyo. made me think.

I'm glad it did some good, although discussing this topic often feels almost like philosophy as there's no real solid base. Keep in mind that whoever/whatever is actually abducting people may be restricted by some larger organization and may not have much in the way of morals themselves (that statement sounds a little too strong). Basically I'm saying some might not be benevolent per se, simply following, and possibly even bending, the rules. For example, there might be some "law" saying that they cannot harm ppl, but they found this loophole where they can make people forget they were harmed and that's just barely good enough. Just throwing out hypotheses.

This is a very interesting case, and serves to show that this subject should be taken far more seriously. However, it goes much farther than just *believing* or *not believing* what these men are, for all observable purposes, telling as a truthful experience. The question then must be approached... A truthful experience of what exactly?

Take a look at this article. (it's in pdf format, so you'll need adobe or acrobat reader). It's a look at the abduction phenomenon from a psychological methodology. This is not my area of expertise, but reading this article was enough to make me realize that when dealing with the complexities of the human mind, it's not just a simple matter of, are these abductees telling 'the truth' or not. The issue is far, far more complex and may have something to do with our unconscious mind's processing of memories, and the ability to distinguish between internal and external experiences, and our exposure to various external/internal stimuli and stresses.

Now, it very well may be that the answer lies with the original claim...these guys were abducted by aliens. Then again, it may be something else altogether. This sort of thing should not be dismissed, but rather pulled out into the light of scientific analysis. Only by continuing to look into the abduction phenomenon will we be able to arrive at a satisfactory answer.

BENEVOLENT???? Ask Travis Walton if he feels they were kindly beings. Ask many other abductee's how they feel, not positive. Try it yourself and see how you fair.It is one of those experiences that has to be tried to be understood Iam sure.

Their are many mixed feelings towards the abductions by the abductees. Some feel the abductions are beneficial in the long run, and they are only meant to help. Others feel like they are being tortured for no reason it all. I guess it is all a matter of how you would feel having experiments done on you by aliens ... If you think you would be ok, and you trust them, you would probably end up thinking of it as a positive experience. If you are afraid of aliens, then you would definately not like the experience. I am not an authority in this in any way, but I feel like it all depends on how you (would) interpret their presence...

There is a new movie coming out this year about a group of friends that were abducted and some never came back. The twist is that the aliens come back and the group of abductees get revenge on the aliens. The makers of this movie made the Blair Witch.

yes in my post i said that it depends on how one looks at it. from the point of view of the individual abductees it could be devistating. however, as another person pointed out it could be much worse, they could tear down the fabrics of society itself if they desired to, if they do indeed exist. thats all i was saying. hence, there is some form of benevolency as opposed to malevolency, besides, if they existed as people report, they could whipe us out without much effort. which once again leads one to the same conclusion.

what i really intended my post to suggest, was that by the way they do things as reported, we can gain an understanding of how their perception functions. that was really the point.

but i understand, analytically, the individual is more important than the whole, so in that view , of course, its disasterous to those that experience it that way. but it appears to me that these "captors" are more synoptically inclinded. for them , the same process may not be viewed the same way that our species views it. i mean, how many people do you know that care about the welfare of our species as a whole, and not themselves or those they know? christians worship their god for that very reason, because its so rare, one is hard pressed to fill a page of names, throughout the history of humankind, of people that did what they do for the whole of our species and not just for their own advancement or the advancement of those they know. in fact, its even difficult to grasp......

but i do feel for those abductees that experience the negative affects of thier experience, please do not get me wrong. the monkeys and other animals we experiment on for the benefit of humanity probably feel the same way. but at least with abductees the "captors" make an attempt to make the process disappear, and take the edge off of it. thats more than what can be said of our kind. we make no attempt in most cases to take the memory away from the animals we experiment on. hell we dont even have that ability, unless we preform labotamies due to their (the animals) place in existence, unfortunately they are at our mercy. which quite honestly we as a whole, do not have much for them. at least, the "captors" of humans try to have mercy, even if it fails sometimes. think , if abductions do occur, how many humans dont remember it? they are the ones that directly benefit from their amnesia.

i apologize if my view offends you, that is not my intent. but i do not see the "captors" as evil.

oh and in regard to travis walton, the movie "fire in the sky" is nothing like what he actually reported. in fact, nothing bad happened to him at all, other than the initial encounter. if you would like to know the full version of what he says happened to him, i suggest you read his book, because the movie is nothing like what he reported.

You may be correct in thinking that some alien contact seemed to contain a shred of compasion for the guinea pig. When Betty Hill was having the needle in the navel thing she was yelling that it hurt and one of the aliens came over to the table by her head and said what is the problem? She told him and he said it should not be painful and seemed confused. She insisted that it hurt and continued to cry and the alien said , here this will make the pain you are feeling stop. He put his hand over her forhead and asked if that helped and she said yes , the pain is gone now. This is quite unique to the abduction scenario Iam afraid, they mostly use and see the victims as ants like we squish under our shoe with no thought or empathy for such an ignorant unevolved being.

Did I ever mention the words film? Or the words Fire in the sky? You assume too much friend. I take all my info from his current website and his own journal of the events. My grandpa was very interested at the time of the event , he also being a woodcutter in the same area, he had alot of town, inside info he gave to me also. Jeez, when you ASSUME YOU MAKE AN A** OF YOU.

i see.


QUOTE(chunga @ Jan 31 2006, 11:57 AM)




here is your previous post. if you have evidence that suggests that waltons captors werent kindly beings, than this is all that is required to counter my arguement ( based on his book). the defensive posturing isnt necessary. thankyou.

Its interesting that the alledged Hill abduction took place less than 400 miles from Allagash.

You can say that about a lot of abductions... Not really any significance...
I think if people were more open about their encounters, you'd see that the 'abductions' are MUCH closer together than 400 miles... That's quite a bit of space... It's about an 8 1/2 hour drive (in a car)...

Honey, when I get into defense posturing you'll know it, just ask some other poster's around here. And, your not welcome

kids kids be nice .... i was abducted when i was 11 it was a benevolent experience...i wont tell the story as it would just be debunked and id be labeled crazy.

For real? PM me... You know I'm good for it

You are correct.

could you share us some more info that makes these aliens in the category of viewing us as ants? If writing out examples is tedious, links to sights that are in accordance with your knowledge would be appreciated. thanks

Sorry, don't do links.

It's quite possible we are to aliens as animals are to us. We experiment, we try to learn from "less advanced" beings than us. If they do exist, their technology may be far superior to ours, however, just as we don't understand everything about things we see every day, they don't understand our simple complexity, which would be reasonable to explain their interest in us. Even if they are completely hostile, they still possess enough logic to not wipe us out.

Hey, my 18 year old son has not explained that yet, Iam a novice.
Roll Your Eye's Elswhere FREAK, oh, I mean Mind Freak ofcourse.

I'm lost here. Let me back track a bit. Perhaps I can help.

Chunga, you say that you don't provide links to where the originating information can be found. Am I correct so far? Now, that is due to the fact that you're a "novice", do you mean on the computer? However, all one needs to do to link information is to provide the address to whatever site you copied the text from in the first place. Simply copy and then paste (in your post) the url address found in the task bar at the top of the page you're reading the info on. That way everyone will know exactly where you got the information from...see what I mean? Don't worry about forming a hyper-link or any fancy stuff (that will come later). Does this help?

BTW, my son will be 18 in May!

I didn't mean anything by it... I just hear it a lot... You could have said: "I don't know how to do that yet, it hasn't been explained to me yet." or something to that effect, I thought you were just being *whatever*... No need to get upset, I wasn't being mean. It was a misunderstanding, I thought you were refusing to provide a link, my fault.

Actually the areas where the Hills and the Allagash abductees were allegedly taken from share identical properties.

400 miles is not such a huge difference thinking in terms of the whole globe.

And who cares how far a drive it is by car ?

Dont think Aliens are cruising around in autos just yet.


The Allagash Abductions

A nightmare event which trapped four men in one of the most curious abduction cases in UFO history.

Artist Chuck Rak, and three friends from the Massachusetts College of Art - Charlie Foltz, and twins Jim and Jack Weiner went canoeing in the Allagash Wilderness Waterway in Maine, situated between the White Mountains and New Hampshire -- oddly enough, the very area where Betty and Barney Hill were abducted by aliens in September of 1961


http://www.global-conspiracies.com/august_..._abductions.htm

I don't know if anyone is still interested in this topic but I thought to add this anyway.
This will be shown on the History Channel (USA schedule) below:


UFOs: Then and Now? Nightmare
Airs on Saturday, February 18 at 1:00pm ET

Examines the most debatable aspect of alien contact--human abduction! From the first recorded case, the 1961 kidnapping of Betty and Barney Hill, to the 1976 Allagash Incident , when four friends were whisked away while on a camping trip, we hear firsthand from participants and a neuroscientist, who offers more earthbound solutions. TVPG

UFO Files on the History Channel

That particular program was on not to long ago. It started off good but ended on a quite biased and closed minded conclusion. They concluded that the abduction phenomenon was simply psychological and claimed that all abductions are either out right lies, sleep paralysis, or psychosis and nothing more. Fortunately, the day it is airing they will be having various UFO related programs back to back and many of them are pretty interesting despite this particularly disappointing documentary.

God I hate it when they do that. A Ufo/alien program starts off good and then ends with the good old patronizing psychological conclusion. I can't speak for anyone else here , but I know the difference between objective reality and subjective reality. In this case, it is truth is stranger than fiction. welcome to planet earth.

this was on unsolved mysteries only a week or so ago, it was very interesting and they all seemed very sincere and authentic.

Cinders, you are sooo helpful with this kind of stuff. Thank You friend. Iam still watching the ufo series with my son that you posted. You are a wonderful asset here at UM. I will be watching to see how far they update the Allagash case. Sadly, in recent years the guide the three friends always used each year has somewhat, I dont want to say recanted, but he is feeling pressured to believe by a therapist of his that he was dreaming these things only becuase the others put the thoughts and images in his subconcious with their accounts. Yet he still says he is not sure either way, he is confused and not sure what happened. This is logical that each human will react to this experience differently , we are so different in our reactions to other things. It almost gives more credibility to the case that one is not quite sure about it all , but still insists that something weird happened.