I'm sure Stellar will tell me why this can't ever happen.

I had a crazy thought while going down the escalator in Sears at the mall today. The up escalator and the down escaltor are side by side. So as I was going down, when I came to the halfway mark where the other escalator is going up (like an X) I had a thought:

If a Blackhole was sucking up the universe around it, pulling everything in...and there was another Blackhole in close enough proximity doing the same thing; suppose Blackhole A begins pulling in Blackhole B and Blackhole B starts pulling in Blackhole A ....

....would the resulting force rip the fabric of the universe?

As they pull each other... they would get closer and closer and wouldn't they just merge into Blackhole C? Just one massive blackhole then. Just a random thought.

Yeah, they would merge creating a denser blackhole.

Wouldn't know about Sears Escalators... I got banned from the store because when I was little I liked running up the down escalators.

QUOTE(StalingradK @ Feb 1 2006, 03:56 PM) [snapback]1044501[/snapback]

Wouldn't know about Sears Escalators... I got banned from the store because when I was little I liked running up the down escalators.

Nice .

TeraLink Was Here!

More in line the analogy, two black holes which enter a common orbit and obtain a periapsis (nearby) approaching three Schwarzschild radii, will induce gravitational wave disturbances along a front during that part of their orbit. For non-rotating BH, their sphere of influence generally is three times the radius of their event horizon. So, as they broach that area, ((O)) ~ ((O)) ripples begin radiating in space, followed by larger waves upon each closer encounter. These allow space between them to react in a temporary fashion.

However, if they spiral in and breech their repective three radii perimeters, their angular momentum will probably lock them into a collision spiral. Their event horizons will twist out to a common focus ((O><O)), at their orbital center of mass. As they finally overlap event horizons, it will be a fraction of a second in which a dual system, and then merge. O


I would not say they 'vacuum in' the surrounding material, but rather anything that breeches the 3 Schwarzschild radius is going to enter a spiral path into the BH.

Another type of black hole rotates. Those are more oblate, or flattened. They would maybe have an accretion disk and a possibly a jet. In any event, a merger involving one or more of those will still be a merger...

Is it where geometry is shown a one way ticket to infinity? Is there a pulling apart of the quantum units of space?

They do appear to grow and merge, and their condition is probably permanent. I can not fathom a 'rip' in space, and it is still hard to come to grips with gravity and mass so locked in.


These are a few interesting examples, FWIW. M51, the Whirlpool Galaxy has an active galactic nuclei (AGN). It has a dusty torus, an inner accretion disk, and another belt of material on the dialgonal. The inset images are filtered as optical, ionized oxygen, and optical enhanced. X marks the spot.
to show the jet plumes.

This example is controversial, but more accepted than not. Black holes were thought to come in two classes, stellar black holes with 3-10 solar masses, and supermassive with around a million to a billion solar masses.

Mid-mass black holes were hard to confirm, until HST and Chandra X-ray telescopes took the affirmative with examples like this. This image is starburst galaxy NGC 253. I show it in infrared, optical, and the core in x-ray. It shows a nice bar at 2 microns (near IR).

Within about 3000 lyrs of the actual core, are some six objects with all the signatures of mid-mass black holes. They are hundreds of solar masses each, and may be falling towards the center of the galaxy- where they will merge.

This is all about merger of relative giants. NGC 6240 is a collision of two galaxies, whose
AGNs are going to become one, in about 200 Myrs.

Okay then....

well....nice pics!

So now we understand the physics of escalators; does anyone have a masters degree in elevator analogy?

I was just wondering, theres three dimensions in space right, so whats on the under side of a black hole? They always look 2 dimensional.

good point...I always pictured them as whirling spherical shaped objects...but the pictures do represent 2d, or at the least, flat instead of rounded. go figure. oh, and fluffybunny, I am getting my undergraduate degree in elevator analogy, would that do? or are you going to wait until someone more learned comes along?

I would agree that spherical on the perimeter is a good concept.
Once inside, it is as if centrifugal becomes centripital, and all the other extremes.

The first image represents the startup of a black hole binary, which is fairly bright.

The view from above shows a non-rotating black hole, with imaginary lines of the
fabric of space fairly steady. The second overhead shows a condition predicted by
General Relativty- frame dragging. When a massive body rotates, it "drags space around".
The Earth barely manages frame dragging. Black holes have no problem.

Here is a perspective as this type begins accreting material from its companion star.
It seems logical to visualize it externally, this way.

There are good models for black holes, but there are ways in the future to visualize them better, hopefully.

It's odd how "space" can be folded, and pulled and stretched. Isn't it just... emptyness with things such as oxegon in it >.> O.o....

True. And space can be positive. Like the distance between me and a wild cat my sister brought inside, for a week. While she gives him some pills.

But, yes, space is for the most part- the most part! Interstellar space can vary as to the amount of gas and dust and stars, but on average, there is mostly space.

Maybe about 4500 atoms m^3, in the really best vacuums inside the Milky Way. That decreases to about 10 atoms m^3 in very deep space, even though half of all hydrogen exists as plasma between galaxies.

These are conditions that dominate the Universe. We have our own blessed isle, but try to keep warm. Black holes are extreme conditions, but they play a useful role in warming the universe, in some localitites. They twist up those columns of jets, which make plasma, which can surround an entire galaxy. They accomplish it because of the extreme conditions of gravity and space that makes a 'singularity' so unique.

In very extreme conditions, astronomers make use of the effect that matter has on space. For instance, sometimes they can see faint and distant objects whose light is bent around an entire galaxy. Space creates a detour for light. Is that space curved? They call it a lensing of the light.

The sun is an example of how matter tells space to curve. When the Viking Missions, or the Casinni Mission communicated to Earth from a position beyond the Sun, the radio transmissions were delayed for a split second. Because the Sun affects a change on the 'weft and warp' of space. In essence, extreme density of mass will curve the path that light takes.

Images

The first picture is a series of distant, large elliptical galaxies. They have a phenomena known as Einstein rings, the light that comes from an even farther galaxy and curves around.

The second example shows a galaxy cluster some 2 billion lyrs away- Abell 2218.
On the left, I put a blue arrow pointing to a red appearing shape of light. The most distant galaxies are usually seen in red or infrared, and this one could be 13 billion lyrs distant. Besides that, the image is filled with warped passages of light. All as it curves around the massive Abell cluster of galaxies.