http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/sot...ergy/index.html
"Government statistics show that about 80 percent of U.S. oil imports come from outside the Middle East."
if this is a war for oil, we're in the wrong spot
Full Version: war for oil ?
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > News, Media & World Events > Conspiracies & Secret Societies
QUOTE(et's daddy @ Feb 2 2006, 01:24 AM) [snapback]1044851[/snapback]
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/sot...ergy/index.html
"Government statistics show that about 80 percent of U.S. oil imports come from outside the Middle East."
if this is a war for oil, we're in the wrong spot
the presidents right about ethanol made from corn and sawgrass...cars used 2 run on ethanol before we switched to gasoline. it could be a viable alternative within 5-10 years.
then why has 20% of the oil being extracted from the middle east caused such massive price hikes in oil?
Actualy its not a lie. only 15% of the oil america uses comes from the persian gulf. So clearly this is not war about oil. Its a war about other peoples oil and the world economy. As China takes 58% of its supplies from the persian gulf region, and america dont like that i suppose.
Actualy its not a lie. only 15% of the oil america uses comes from the persian gulf. So clearly this is not war about oil. Its a war about other peoples oil and the world economy. As China takes 58% of its supplies from the persian gulf region, and america dont like that i suppose.
so we attacked Iraq to hurt China ?
lol, people say war for oil, but 1. if we were caught stealing oil from Iraq, we'd be in deep doo doo. If we got so much more oil, how come it's at an all time high price.
This is what I think it's really about: sorry it's long but it should answer your question.
The reason the American Dollar is worth so much to the world, is because in 1970, United States made a deal with Saudia Arabia, and the other oil companies of the East. The deal was that oil HAD to be bought with American Dollars, nothing else. For this, the world that needed high quanities of oil NEEDED american dollars in order to purchase it. This helped to secure United States, and helped to keep them from debt, from all the gold they used during the pilgrimage.
However, Saddam was actually in the process of switching his oil contracts from American Dollars, to that of the Euro dollar. Not only would this cripple the United States government, but it would please all of europe, asia, and the rest of the countries to the east, that used the Euro as common currency, other then American Dollars. This was the States main reason for going into Iraq to stop Saddam. It had nothing to do with his weapons of mass destruction, Bush was doing what he could to stable the United States government. However, Iran and many other oil bourses have followed in those footsteps, not afraid of the United States liberation and have slated to open their new contracts in march. This will catapult gas prices in the United States, and will slowly begin to sink them into debt once again.
This goes along also with what one Washington insider, George Green, says:
read about Global Report 2000:
http://www.nomorehoaxes.com/index.php?opti...&id=23&Itemid=1
It's all about the Plan for world domination, aka the new world order!
Once the Saudis accept payment in Euros the banks of the world will likely get rid of their dollar reserves and try trade them into the US in exchange for gold. The US doesn't really have gold reserves. It's been transferred into private hands.
"This year, I authorized the issuance of United State Notes. They are the same appearance except for the heading at the top. The difference is that we pay interest to the Federal Reserve on their notes, whereas we pay no interest on United State Notes."
--President John Kennedy (He was assassinated 10 days later)
President Kennedy's Executive Order 11.110 called for the issuance of $4.2 billion in a new currency called United States Notes. These notes were interest free and debt free, unlike Federal Reserve notes, which are printed for the price of paper and then loaned to the US government at face value, with interest attached. They were issued through the U.S. Treasury. The first thing agent Lyndon B. Johnson did as President was to revoke Kennedy's executive order.
"The Federal Reserve Bank is an institution owned by the stock holding member banks . . . The government [WE THE PEOPLE] has not a dollars worth of stock in it . . . From a legal standpoint these banks are private corporations under a special act of Congress, namely the Federal Reserve Act. They are not in the strict sense of the word Government banks." W.P.G. Harding, former Governor Federal Reserve 1921
This also reminds me of another story I read about how the Saudis were forced to do business the way the US wanted or else the US would just take the oil by force. Former NASA scientist Rene Welch not only learned about the U.S. government’s preplanning of 9/11 from the bin Laden's back in 1987, but also a government-funded project titled “Global Cleanse 2000”, outlining strategies for global war and population reduction.
QUOTE(Azalin @ Jan 28 2006, 06:18 PM) [snapback]1039752[/snapback]
The reason the American Dollar is worth so much to the world, is because in 1970, United States made a deal with Saudia Arabia, and the other oil companies of the East. The deal was that oil HAD to be bought with American Dollars, nothing else. For this, the world that needed high quanities of oil NEEDED american dollars in order to purchase it. This helped to secure United States, and helped to keep them from debt, from all the gold they used during the pilgrimage.
However, Saddam was actually in the process of switching his oil contracts from American Dollars, to that of the Euro dollar. Not only would this cripple the United States government, but it would please all of europe, asia, and the rest of the countries to the east, that used the Euro as common currency, other then American Dollars. This was the States main reason for going into Iraq to stop Saddam. It had nothing to do with his weapons of mass destruction, Bush was doing what he could to stable the United States government. However, Iran and many other oil bourses have followed in those footsteps, not afraid of the United States liberation and have slated to open their new contracts in march. This will catapult gas prices in the United States, and will slowly begin to sink them into debt once again.
QUOTE
The Proposed Iranian Oil Bourse
by Krassimir Petrov
18 Jan 2006
Economically, the American Empire was born with Bretton Woods in 1945. The U.S. dollar was not fully convertible to gold, but was made convertible to gold only to foreign governments. This established the dollar as the reserve currency of the world. It was possible, because during WWII, the United States had supplied its allies with provisions, demanding gold as payment, thus accumulating significant portion of the world’s gold. An Empire would not have been possible if, following the Bretton Woods arrangement, the dollar supply was kept limited and within the availability of gold, so as to fully exchange back dollars for gold. However, the guns-and-butter policy of the 1960’s was an imperial one: the dollar supply was relentlessly increased to finance Vietnam and LBJ’s Great Society. Most of those dollars were handed over to foreigners in exchange for economic goods, without the prospect of buying them back at the same value. The increase in dollar holdings of foreigners via persistent U.S. trade deficits was tantamount to a tax—the classical inflation tax that a country imposes on its own citizens, this time around an inflation tax that U.S. imposed on rest of the world.
When in 1970-1971 foreigners demanded payment for their dollars in gold, The U.S. Government defaulted on its payment on August 15, 1971. While the popular spin told the story of “severing the link between the dollar and gold”, in reality the denial to pay back in gold was an act of bankruptcy by the U.S. Government. Essentially, the U.S. declared itself an Empire. It had extracted an enormous amount of economic goods from the rest of the world, with no intention or ability to return those goods, and the world was powerless to respond— the world was taxed and it could not do anything about it.
From that point on, to sustain the American Empire and to continue to tax the rest of the world, the United States had to force the world to continue to accept ever-depreciating dollars in exchange for economic goods and to have the world hold more and more of those depreciating dollars. It had to give the world an economic reason to hold them, and that reason was oil.
In 1971, as it became clearer and clearer that the U.S Government would not be able to buy back its dollars in gold, it made in 1972-73 an iron-clad arrangement with Saudi Arabia to support the power of the House of Saud in exchange for accepting only U.S. dollars for its oil. The rest of OPEC was to follow suit and also accept only dollars. Because the world had to buy oil from the Arab oil countries, it had the reason to hold dollars as payment for oil. Because the world needed ever increasing quantities of oil at ever increasing oil prices, the world’s demand for dollars could only increase. Even though dollars could no longer be exchanged for gold, they were now exchangeable for oil
The economic essence of this arrangement was that the dollar was now backed by oil. As long as that was the case, the world had to accumulate increasing amounts of dollars, because they needed those dollars to buy oil. As long as the dollar was the only acceptable payment for oil, its dominance in the world was assured, and the American Empire could continue to tax the rest of the world. If, for any reason, the dollar lost its oil backing, the American Empire would cease to exist. Thus, Imperial survival dictated that oil be sold only for dollars. It also dictated that oil reserves were spread around various sovereign states that weren’t strong enough, politically or militarily, to demand payment for oil in something else. If someone demanded a different payment, he had to be convinced, either by political pressure or military means, to change his mind.
The man that actually did demand Euro for his oil was Saddam Hussein in 2000. At first, his demand was met with ridicule, later with neglect, but as it became clearer that he meant business, political pressure was exerted to change his mind. When other countries, like Iran, wanted payment in other currencies, most notably Euro and Yen, the danger to the dollar was clear and present, and a punitive action was in order. Bush’s Shock-and-Awe in Iraq was not about Saddam’s nuclear capabilities, about defending human rights, about spreading democracy, or even about seizing oil fields; it was about defending the dollar, ergo the American Empire. It was about setting an example that anyone who demanded payment in currencies other than U.S. Dollars would be likewise punished.
The Iranian government has finally developed the ultimate “nuclear” weapon that can swiftly destroy the financial system underpinning the American Empire. That weapon is the Iranian Oil Bourse slated to open in March 2006. It will be based on a euro-oil-trading mechanism that naturally implies payment for oil in Euro. In economic terms, this represents a much greater threat to the hegemony of the dollar than Saddam’s, because it will allow anyone willing either to buy or to sell oil for Euro to transact on the exchange, thus circumventing the U.S. dollar altogether. If so, then it is likely that almost everyone will eagerly adopt this euro oil system:
• The Europeans will not have to buy and hold dollars in order to secure their payment for oil, but would instead pay with their own currencies. The adoption of the euro for oil transactions will provide the European currency with a reserve status that will benefit the European at the expense of the Americans.
please read full article:
http://www.energybulletin.net/12125.html
by Krassimir Petrov
18 Jan 2006
Economically, the American Empire was born with Bretton Woods in 1945. The U.S. dollar was not fully convertible to gold, but was made convertible to gold only to foreign governments. This established the dollar as the reserve currency of the world. It was possible, because during WWII, the United States had supplied its allies with provisions, demanding gold as payment, thus accumulating significant portion of the world’s gold. An Empire would not have been possible if, following the Bretton Woods arrangement, the dollar supply was kept limited and within the availability of gold, so as to fully exchange back dollars for gold. However, the guns-and-butter policy of the 1960’s was an imperial one: the dollar supply was relentlessly increased to finance Vietnam and LBJ’s Great Society. Most of those dollars were handed over to foreigners in exchange for economic goods, without the prospect of buying them back at the same value. The increase in dollar holdings of foreigners via persistent U.S. trade deficits was tantamount to a tax—the classical inflation tax that a country imposes on its own citizens, this time around an inflation tax that U.S. imposed on rest of the world.
When in 1970-1971 foreigners demanded payment for their dollars in gold, The U.S. Government defaulted on its payment on August 15, 1971. While the popular spin told the story of “severing the link between the dollar and gold”, in reality the denial to pay back in gold was an act of bankruptcy by the U.S. Government. Essentially, the U.S. declared itself an Empire. It had extracted an enormous amount of economic goods from the rest of the world, with no intention or ability to return those goods, and the world was powerless to respond— the world was taxed and it could not do anything about it.
From that point on, to sustain the American Empire and to continue to tax the rest of the world, the United States had to force the world to continue to accept ever-depreciating dollars in exchange for economic goods and to have the world hold more and more of those depreciating dollars. It had to give the world an economic reason to hold them, and that reason was oil.
In 1971, as it became clearer and clearer that the U.S Government would not be able to buy back its dollars in gold, it made in 1972-73 an iron-clad arrangement with Saudi Arabia to support the power of the House of Saud in exchange for accepting only U.S. dollars for its oil. The rest of OPEC was to follow suit and also accept only dollars. Because the world had to buy oil from the Arab oil countries, it had the reason to hold dollars as payment for oil. Because the world needed ever increasing quantities of oil at ever increasing oil prices, the world’s demand for dollars could only increase. Even though dollars could no longer be exchanged for gold, they were now exchangeable for oil
The economic essence of this arrangement was that the dollar was now backed by oil. As long as that was the case, the world had to accumulate increasing amounts of dollars, because they needed those dollars to buy oil. As long as the dollar was the only acceptable payment for oil, its dominance in the world was assured, and the American Empire could continue to tax the rest of the world. If, for any reason, the dollar lost its oil backing, the American Empire would cease to exist. Thus, Imperial survival dictated that oil be sold only for dollars. It also dictated that oil reserves were spread around various sovereign states that weren’t strong enough, politically or militarily, to demand payment for oil in something else. If someone demanded a different payment, he had to be convinced, either by political pressure or military means, to change his mind.
The man that actually did demand Euro for his oil was Saddam Hussein in 2000. At first, his demand was met with ridicule, later with neglect, but as it became clearer that he meant business, political pressure was exerted to change his mind. When other countries, like Iran, wanted payment in other currencies, most notably Euro and Yen, the danger to the dollar was clear and present, and a punitive action was in order. Bush’s Shock-and-Awe in Iraq was not about Saddam’s nuclear capabilities, about defending human rights, about spreading democracy, or even about seizing oil fields; it was about defending the dollar, ergo the American Empire. It was about setting an example that anyone who demanded payment in currencies other than U.S. Dollars would be likewise punished.
The Iranian government has finally developed the ultimate “nuclear” weapon that can swiftly destroy the financial system underpinning the American Empire. That weapon is the Iranian Oil Bourse slated to open in March 2006. It will be based on a euro-oil-trading mechanism that naturally implies payment for oil in Euro. In economic terms, this represents a much greater threat to the hegemony of the dollar than Saddam’s, because it will allow anyone willing either to buy or to sell oil for Euro to transact on the exchange, thus circumventing the U.S. dollar altogether. If so, then it is likely that almost everyone will eagerly adopt this euro oil system:
• The Europeans will not have to buy and hold dollars in order to secure their payment for oil, but would instead pay with their own currencies. The adoption of the euro for oil transactions will provide the European currency with a reserve status that will benefit the European at the expense of the Americans.
please read full article:
http://www.energybulletin.net/12125.html
QUOTE
The rumor is that Iran will carry out a nuclear experiment in March...
Published: 1/29/2006
Teheran is getting ready to counter a “preemptive strike” by USA and Israel
Attacks to selected centers in Iran are foreseen to take place sometime in March-June.
So, why was the month of March chosen? What is behind the prediction that Iran will carry out a nuclear experiment in March? In other words, why are the USA and Israel drawing global attention to the month of March? Why are Turkey, Egypt and Saudi Arabia being pushed into a race of weapons build-up by bringing up the possibility that they may also acquire nuclear weapons?
Because, there is another event expected to occur in March, which could have an impact on the economy of the USA equivalent to a nuclear attack: in March, Teheran will implement its 2004 decision that it will start using the Euro instead of the Dollar in its petroleum trade, establishing a petroleum market, and breaking the “petrodollar” monopoly. Iran will open its petroleum market in March. Euro will replace Dollar in the petroleum trade. This will constitute a major attack on a vital component of the American Empire. Once the decision is implemented, a real debate will start on this doomsday scenario for the American economy.
Thereafter, the monopoly of USA/United Kingdom in international petroleum trade will collapse. The petroleum markets in New York and London will receive a heavy blow. The International Petroleum Market in London and the New York Mercantile Exchange controlled by the Americans are in a state of panic.
The Iranian position is being supported by the Chinese. The Japanese are also inclined to switch to Euro; this way, they could lower their Dollar reserves.
read full article:
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news_updates/newsupdatemain.html
Published: 1/29/2006
Teheran is getting ready to counter a “preemptive strike” by USA and Israel
Attacks to selected centers in Iran are foreseen to take place sometime in March-June.
So, why was the month of March chosen? What is behind the prediction that Iran will carry out a nuclear experiment in March? In other words, why are the USA and Israel drawing global attention to the month of March? Why are Turkey, Egypt and Saudi Arabia being pushed into a race of weapons build-up by bringing up the possibility that they may also acquire nuclear weapons?
Because, there is another event expected to occur in March, which could have an impact on the economy of the USA equivalent to a nuclear attack: in March, Teheran will implement its 2004 decision that it will start using the Euro instead of the Dollar in its petroleum trade, establishing a petroleum market, and breaking the “petrodollar” monopoly. Iran will open its petroleum market in March. Euro will replace Dollar in the petroleum trade. This will constitute a major attack on a vital component of the American Empire. Once the decision is implemented, a real debate will start on this doomsday scenario for the American economy.
Thereafter, the monopoly of USA/United Kingdom in international petroleum trade will collapse. The petroleum markets in New York and London will receive a heavy blow. The International Petroleum Market in London and the New York Mercantile Exchange controlled by the Americans are in a state of panic.
The Iranian position is being supported by the Chinese. The Japanese are also inclined to switch to Euro; this way, they could lower their Dollar reserves.
read full article:
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news_updates/newsupdatemain.html
QUOTE
Tehran plans a nuclear weapons test before March 20, 2006 – the Iranian New Year, moves Shahab-3 missiles within striking range of Israel
January 22, 2006
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=1696
January 22, 2006
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=1696
This goes along also with what one Washington insider, George Green, says:
QUOTE
And Green's ominous message of a devastating financial collapse in America in the next 90 days has been verified by reports circulating that the neocon's long plan of world domination and collapsing the U.S. economy are imminent.
Other financial analysts, along with Green, have been sounding the "red warning signal," saying 2006 will spell the end for America based on five major signs as listed on the Italian web site BellaCiao:
"Sign 1: The U.S., Great Britain and Israel are preparing to attack Iran. As it appears the main reason for invading Iraq was to stop it from selling oil in Euros, likewise Iran has plans to dump the dollar come March 2006.
"Sign 2: U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow issued a warning recently that the U.S. Government is on the verge of collapse - as the statutory debt limit imposed by Congress of $8.184 trillion dollars would be reached in mid-February - the government would then be unable to continue its normal operations. Considering the current total U.S. debt stands at $8.162 trillion dollars, once the official debt ceiling ($8.184 trillion) is reached, the U.S. government's credit abroad (its borrowing power) is gone. Those countries (mainly China) who presently keep America afloat by holding U.S. Treasury Notes, will most likely no longer continue doing so.
"Sign 3: Bank Of America and Compass Bank managers (probably all other U.S. banks too) have been instructing their employees in the last few weeks on how to respond to customer demands in the event of a collapse of the U.S. economy - specifically telling the employees that only agents from the Department Of Homeland Security will have authority to decide what belongings customers may have from their safe deposit boxes - and that precious metals and other valuables will not be released to U.S. citizens. The bank employees have been strictly prohibited from revealing the banks' new "guidelines" to anyone. (however, employees have been talking to friends and family)
"Sign 4: FEMA has activated and is currently staffing its vast network of empty internment camps with armed military personnel - unknown to most Americans, these large federal facilities are strategically positioned across the U.S. landscape to "manage" the population in the event of a "terrorist" attack, a civilian uprising, large-scale dissent ,or an insurrection against the government. Some of these razor-wired facilities have the capacity of detaining a million people.
"Sign 5: The Patriot Act and the US Senate's vote to ban habeas corpus (Nov 14th) - along with George W. Bush having signed executive orders giving him sole authority to impose martial law, suspend habeas corpus and ignore the Posse Comitatus Act, have together pretty much destroyed any notions of freedom and justice for Americans."
To back up the gloomy forecast and the fact the destruction of America has been on the neocon agenda for years, Green has outlined a quick history of Global Report 2000 on his web site, complete with statistics and quotes from American politicians, going all the way back to former Secretary of State, Edmund Muskie, calling for the elimination of 2 billion people by the year 2000.
"I might add," said Green. "There's a lot to worry about because the neocons are actually behind schedule."
On his web site the following points regarding Global Report 2000 should be seriously considered when looking at the present situation around the world, the devaluation of the dollar and the declining condition of the U.S. economy.
"In July of 1980, Secretary of State endorsed as official Carter administration policy the Global 2000 report, which according to then Secretary of State Edmund Muskie's own words "THE ELIMINATION OF 2 billion human beings by the year...2000. The Office of Population Affairs of the U.S. State Department from the National Security Council's Ad Hoc Group on Population policy, U.S. Foreign Polity is being planned and implemented on the basis of its effectiveness in murdering human beings.
read full article:
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=4079
Other financial analysts, along with Green, have been sounding the "red warning signal," saying 2006 will spell the end for America based on five major signs as listed on the Italian web site BellaCiao:
"Sign 1: The U.S., Great Britain and Israel are preparing to attack Iran. As it appears the main reason for invading Iraq was to stop it from selling oil in Euros, likewise Iran has plans to dump the dollar come March 2006.
"Sign 2: U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow issued a warning recently that the U.S. Government is on the verge of collapse - as the statutory debt limit imposed by Congress of $8.184 trillion dollars would be reached in mid-February - the government would then be unable to continue its normal operations. Considering the current total U.S. debt stands at $8.162 trillion dollars, once the official debt ceiling ($8.184 trillion) is reached, the U.S. government's credit abroad (its borrowing power) is gone. Those countries (mainly China) who presently keep America afloat by holding U.S. Treasury Notes, will most likely no longer continue doing so.
"Sign 3: Bank Of America and Compass Bank managers (probably all other U.S. banks too) have been instructing their employees in the last few weeks on how to respond to customer demands in the event of a collapse of the U.S. economy - specifically telling the employees that only agents from the Department Of Homeland Security will have authority to decide what belongings customers may have from their safe deposit boxes - and that precious metals and other valuables will not be released to U.S. citizens. The bank employees have been strictly prohibited from revealing the banks' new "guidelines" to anyone. (however, employees have been talking to friends and family)
"Sign 4: FEMA has activated and is currently staffing its vast network of empty internment camps with armed military personnel - unknown to most Americans, these large federal facilities are strategically positioned across the U.S. landscape to "manage" the population in the event of a "terrorist" attack, a civilian uprising, large-scale dissent ,or an insurrection against the government. Some of these razor-wired facilities have the capacity of detaining a million people.
"Sign 5: The Patriot Act and the US Senate's vote to ban habeas corpus (Nov 14th) - along with George W. Bush having signed executive orders giving him sole authority to impose martial law, suspend habeas corpus and ignore the Posse Comitatus Act, have together pretty much destroyed any notions of freedom and justice for Americans."
To back up the gloomy forecast and the fact the destruction of America has been on the neocon agenda for years, Green has outlined a quick history of Global Report 2000 on his web site, complete with statistics and quotes from American politicians, going all the way back to former Secretary of State, Edmund Muskie, calling for the elimination of 2 billion people by the year 2000.
"I might add," said Green. "There's a lot to worry about because the neocons are actually behind schedule."
On his web site the following points regarding Global Report 2000 should be seriously considered when looking at the present situation around the world, the devaluation of the dollar and the declining condition of the U.S. economy.
"In July of 1980, Secretary of State endorsed as official Carter administration policy the Global 2000 report, which according to then Secretary of State Edmund Muskie's own words "THE ELIMINATION OF 2 billion human beings by the year...2000. The Office of Population Affairs of the U.S. State Department from the National Security Council's Ad Hoc Group on Population policy, U.S. Foreign Polity is being planned and implemented on the basis of its effectiveness in murdering human beings.
read full article:
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=4079
read about Global Report 2000:
http://www.nomorehoaxes.com/index.php?opti...&id=23&Itemid=1
It's all about the Plan for world domination, aka the new world order!
Once the Saudis accept payment in Euros the banks of the world will likely get rid of their dollar reserves and try trade them into the US in exchange for gold. The US doesn't really have gold reserves. It's been transferred into private hands.
"This year, I authorized the issuance of United State Notes. They are the same appearance except for the heading at the top. The difference is that we pay interest to the Federal Reserve on their notes, whereas we pay no interest on United State Notes."
--President John Kennedy (He was assassinated 10 days later)
President Kennedy's Executive Order 11.110 called for the issuance of $4.2 billion in a new currency called United States Notes. These notes were interest free and debt free, unlike Federal Reserve notes, which are printed for the price of paper and then loaned to the US government at face value, with interest attached. They were issued through the U.S. Treasury. The first thing agent Lyndon B. Johnson did as President was to revoke Kennedy's executive order.
"The Federal Reserve Bank is an institution owned by the stock holding member banks . . . The government [WE THE PEOPLE] has not a dollars worth of stock in it . . . From a legal standpoint these banks are private corporations under a special act of Congress, namely the Federal Reserve Act. They are not in the strict sense of the word Government banks." W.P.G. Harding, former Governor Federal Reserve 1921
This also reminds me of another story I read about how the Saudis were forced to do business the way the US wanted or else the US would just take the oil by force. Former NASA scientist Rene Welch not only learned about the U.S. government’s preplanning of 9/11 from the bin Laden's back in 1987, but also a government-funded project titled “Global Cleanse 2000”, outlining strategies for global war and population reduction.
QUOTE
"These men told us to be very cautious and to assume that we were under surveillance by our government. For several hours they showed us films of meetings of key Arabs and U.S. government officials discussing the oil issues. The bottom line was that if the Arabs did not do it their way, the U.S. would simply take their oil by force. They also explained that they have been manipulated into setting up bank accounts where oil profits were siphoned off and were no longer under their control.
"They then explained why the World Trade Centers were the ideal target for this purpose. The two bin Laden's showed us this film because they made it very clear how they did not want to be involved with any U.S. plot to manipulate the Arab governments or start a war."
read entire article:
http://www.arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/arti...18131/30199.htm
"They then explained why the World Trade Centers were the ideal target for this purpose. The two bin Laden's showed us this film because they made it very clear how they did not want to be involved with any U.S. plot to manipulate the Arab governments or start a war."
read entire article:
http://www.arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/arti...18131/30199.htm
im sorry but i dont follow
can you simplify it for me ?
Iran wants to take euro's instead of dollars
big deal
sounds like if i open a store and take canadian money instead of american
i really dont get it
can you simplify it for me ?
Iran wants to take euro's instead of dollars
big deal
sounds like if i open a store and take canadian money instead of american
i really dont get it
US only has about 80 million in gold reserves, see their fundamental mistake was to replace oil basicaly with the gold standard. Europe has still hoarded, and no doubt the middle east a sh** load of gold.
"Iran wants to take euro's instead of dollars
big deal
sounds like if i open a store and take canadian money instead of american
i really dont get it"
well thats what saddam wanted to do, so america invaded Iraq. This is why theres so much nonesense about Iran because their planing the same thing.
If countries are trading for oil in dollars, it keeps the U.S ddollar afloat, if they start trading large portions of it in Euros were once it dollars, the dollar goes down and the Euro goes, strangthing the Euro and severly lowering the dollar. IF the dollar gets lowerd, its not worth so much, they loose a lot of buying power externaly and internaly to fund say their military, where 400 billion a year of their revenue goes. A further 300 billion[roughly] goes to paying off their defecit, i.e internal loans. If the dollar goes down they wont have the money to pay these things off, and most likely the dollar will collapse and will be followed by a massive depretion.
Its all about trade, cant really be arsed explainin it all mate theres dozens of posts all about it the petro dollar/euro cycle.
"Iran wants to take euro's instead of dollars
big deal
sounds like if i open a store and take canadian money instead of american
i really dont get it"
well thats what saddam wanted to do, so america invaded Iraq. This is why theres so much nonesense about Iran because their planing the same thing.
If countries are trading for oil in dollars, it keeps the U.S ddollar afloat, if they start trading large portions of it in Euros were once it dollars, the dollar goes down and the Euro goes, strangthing the Euro and severly lowering the dollar. IF the dollar gets lowerd, its not worth so much, they loose a lot of buying power externaly and internaly to fund say their military, where 400 billion a year of their revenue goes. A further 300 billion[roughly] goes to paying off their defecit, i.e internal loans. If the dollar goes down they wont have the money to pay these things off, and most likely the dollar will collapse and will be followed by a massive depretion.
Its all about trade, cant really be arsed explainin it all mate theres dozens of posts all about it the petro dollar/euro cycle.
QUOTE(et's daddy @ Feb 2 2006, 03:55 AM) [snapback]1044972[/snapback]
im sorry but i dont follow
can you simplify it for me ?
Iran wants to take euro's instead of dollars
big deal
sounds like if i open a store and take canadian money instead of american
i really dont get it
Basically america made a deal in the 70's with saudi arabia to make sure oil will be traded in dollars meaning other countries buying oil eg. china need dollars to buy oil, the USA prints dollars so they basically sell dollars (known as "PETROL DOLLARS")for goods and services to other countries and the dollars are eventually banked in the US(because of the deal the y made with the saudi's) so when iraq started to trade in euros america basically had to pay way over the odds for the oil because they can't print euro's and obviously had to exchange there own currency (hence the war). Now iran have said there going to start trading in euro's as of next year (hence the talk of nuclear weapons again) so here we go again.
I think this is right i watched something about it the other night
im sorry but i dont buy this arguement
i dont care if they start selling oil for doughnuts
America isnt going bankrupt
if i told Iran i wanted $30,000,000 worth of oil, and offered to pay them in American dollars they wouldnt want it ?
thats just silly
i dont care if they start selling oil for doughnuts
America isnt going bankrupt
if i told Iran i wanted $30,000,000 worth of oil, and offered to pay them in American dollars they wouldnt want it ?
thats just silly
legalize hemp!! you know the diesel engine was originally developed to run on hemp seed oil and the petroleum companies were so threatened they had marijauna criminalised in order to exploit the crude that was so abundant-- and still is if you understand that oil is not derived from fossils but an abiotic process that is self replenishing and limitless-- although it wouldnt be profitable if people can produce their own fuel
QUOTE(Sunofone @ Feb 2 2006, 10:43 PM) [snapback]1046372[/snapback]
legalize hemp!! you know the diesel engine was originally developed to run on hemp seed oil and the petroleum companies were so threatened they had marijauna criminalised in order to exploit the crude that was so abundant-- and still is if you understand that oil is not derived from fossils but an abiotic process that is self replenishing and limitless-- although it wouldnt be profitable if people can produce their own fuel
pls explain to me this hemp seed oil engine
or link me to a source
is it viable ? has it been tested ?
QUOTE(Sunofone @ Feb 2 2006, 09:43 PM) [snapback]1046372[/snapback]
legalize hemp!! you know the diesel engine was originally developed to run on hemp seed oil and the petroleum companies were so threatened they had marijauna criminalised in order to exploit the crude that was so abundant-- and still is if you understand that oil is not derived from fossils but an abiotic process that is self replenishing and limitless-- although it wouldnt be profitable if people can produce their own fuel
Well said Sunofone!!!
QUOTE(et's daddy @ Feb 3 2006, 12:35 AM) [snapback]1046159[/snapback]
if i told Iran i wanted $30,000,000 worth of oil, and offered to pay them in American dollars they wouldnt want it ?
Unless that money is backed up with something that has value, lets say gold for example then what are you left with? Paper, that's right, how much is that worth, sweet FA, right again, now think whether Iran would want to swop their oil for your paper? Absolutely 100%, that's right, they'd tell you to sling it.
That's why most banking systems around the world hold an equivalent amount of gold to the amount of promisary notes (you'd recognise that as currency) they issue. The US Federal bank doesn't do this and hasn't needed to because the only way to buy oil was to buy it in dollars, this gave their promisary notes their value, everyone who wanted to buy oil had to buy dollars in order to complete the exchange. The threat from Iraq and now Iran was to alter this system to allow countries to buy their oil in Euros, this would circumvent the need for people to buy dollars and this would lead to the value of the dollar crashing.
Or at least that's how I understand it, which I admit is at a very basic level, i have no background in economics so I would appreciate more learned people filling in the holes, correcting the errors.
QUOTE(Snowball @ Feb 3 2006, 10:50 AM) [snapback]1046826[/snapback]
Unless that money is backed up with something that has value, lets say gold for example then what are you left with? Paper, that's right, how much is that worth, sweet FA, right again, now think whether Iran would want to swop their oil for your paper? Absolutely 100%, that's right, they'd tell you to sling it.
That's why most banking systems around the world hold an equivalent amount of gold to the amount of promisary notes (you'd recognise that as currency) they issue. The US Federal bank doesn't do this and hasn't needed to because the only way to buy oil was to buy it in dollars, this gave their promisary notes their value, everyone who wanted to buy oil had to buy dollars in order to complete the exchange. The threat from Iraq and now Iran was to alter this system to allow countries to buy their oil in Euros, this would circumvent the need for people to buy dollars and this would lead to the value of the dollar crashing.
Or at least that's how I understand it, which I admit is at a very basic level, i have no background in economics so I would appreciate more learned people filling in the holes, correcting the errors.
i really dont believe this will happen
Iran may decide to only take Euro's, but that's not going to make the dollar crash
and its not going to lead to war with Iran
we may indeed blow Iran off the map, but i dont believe it will be because they stop accepting the dollar for oil
Is the Iran situation coincedence? Maybe, maybe not. We do have to look at both sides and present them, so here is another view on the Iran oil bourse:
January 20, 2006
Strange ideas about the Iranian oil bourse
The internet can be a good source of information about issues that aren't adequately covered by the mainstream media. It can also be a font of considerable kookiness.
Tyler Cowen as well as several Econbrowser readers have called attention to Iranian intentions of creating an exchange in which oil would be traded for euros rather than dollars. Krassimir Petrov's excited account gives a flavor of what you can find out there:
"one of the Federal Reserve's nightmares may begin to unfold in the spring of 2006, when it appears that international buyers will have a choice of buying a barrel of oil for 60 dollars on the NYMEX and IPE-- or purchase a barrel of oil for 45-50 euros via the Iranian Bourse. This assumes the euro maintains its current 20-25% appreciated value relative to the dollar-- and assumes that some sort of US "intervention" is not launched against Iran. The upcoming bourse will introduce petrodollar versus petroeuro currency hedging, and fundamentally new dynamics to the biggest market in the world-- global oil and gas trades. In essence, the U.S. will no longer be able to effortlessly expand credit via U.S. Treasury bills, and the dollar's demand/liquidity value will fall."
How exactly will that have any effect at all on the Federal Reserve or the demand for dollars? Petrov explains:
"The economic essence of this [post Bretton Woods] arrangement was that the dollar was now backed by oil. As long as that was the case, the world had to accumulate increasing amounts of dollars, because they needed those dollars to buy oil. As long as the dollar was the only acceptable payment for oil, its dominance in the world was assured, and the American Empire could continue to tax the rest of the world. If, for any reason, the dollar lost its oil backing, the American Empire would cease to exist. Thus, Imperial survival dictated that oil be sold only for dollars."
Elias Akleh sees this oil bourse, rather than nuclear bombs, as the thing that Bush fears most about Iran, while Soj writing at Daily Kos finds a conspiratorial connection between all this and the Federal Reserve's intention to discontinue publication of the monetary aggregate M3.
Where shall I begin? Well, for starters, you don't need to acquire any U.S. assets in order to purchase a barrel of oil that is priced in dollars. You could pay with eurodollars, which are dollar-denominated accounts that could be issued by any bank anywhere in the world.
And even if the oil were purchased with dollars drawn on a U.S. bank, there is no reason at all that the seller needs to retain the proceeds in that form. Those selling oil could convert those dollars back to euros or Japanese yen or whatever their hearts desired, and likewise could convert euros obtained through sales on an Iranian bourse back into dollars, if they wished. What ultimately determines the demand for dollars is not the unit of account for the transaction, but rather the desired asset holdings of those who are accumulating the wealth.
You could buy gold right now in New York for dollars or in London for pounds. Which one is cheaper? Guess what-- you'll pay exactly the same price either place once you make the currency conversion at the current exchange rate. The same will surely hold for crude oil.
And the notion that the U.S. dollar is currently "backed by oil" is so nonsensical that it is difficult even to fathom what that phrase is intended to convey. When we say that under a gold standard, the dollar is backed by gold, I know exactly what that means-- it means you can surrender dollars at any time to obtain a fixed amount of gold promised by the government. But if you surrender dollars on any given day in January 2006, how much oil are you going to get back? It varies literally by the minute, and the rate at which dollars get exchanged for oil has nothing to do with the promises made by any government and everything to do with market fluctuations in supply and demand.
Which is also my explanation for the prevalence of these theories on the internet-- there is a demand for a deeply conspiratorial interpretation of world events, and always someone willing to supply such.
Posted by James Hamilton at January 20, 2006 10:25 PM
LINK
January 20, 2006
Strange ideas about the Iranian oil bourse
The internet can be a good source of information about issues that aren't adequately covered by the mainstream media. It can also be a font of considerable kookiness.
Tyler Cowen as well as several Econbrowser readers have called attention to Iranian intentions of creating an exchange in which oil would be traded for euros rather than dollars. Krassimir Petrov's excited account gives a flavor of what you can find out there:
"one of the Federal Reserve's nightmares may begin to unfold in the spring of 2006, when it appears that international buyers will have a choice of buying a barrel of oil for 60 dollars on the NYMEX and IPE-- or purchase a barrel of oil for 45-50 euros via the Iranian Bourse. This assumes the euro maintains its current 20-25% appreciated value relative to the dollar-- and assumes that some sort of US "intervention" is not launched against Iran. The upcoming bourse will introduce petrodollar versus petroeuro currency hedging, and fundamentally new dynamics to the biggest market in the world-- global oil and gas trades. In essence, the U.S. will no longer be able to effortlessly expand credit via U.S. Treasury bills, and the dollar's demand/liquidity value will fall."
How exactly will that have any effect at all on the Federal Reserve or the demand for dollars? Petrov explains:
"The economic essence of this [post Bretton Woods] arrangement was that the dollar was now backed by oil. As long as that was the case, the world had to accumulate increasing amounts of dollars, because they needed those dollars to buy oil. As long as the dollar was the only acceptable payment for oil, its dominance in the world was assured, and the American Empire could continue to tax the rest of the world. If, for any reason, the dollar lost its oil backing, the American Empire would cease to exist. Thus, Imperial survival dictated that oil be sold only for dollars."
Elias Akleh sees this oil bourse, rather than nuclear bombs, as the thing that Bush fears most about Iran, while Soj writing at Daily Kos finds a conspiratorial connection between all this and the Federal Reserve's intention to discontinue publication of the monetary aggregate M3.
Where shall I begin? Well, for starters, you don't need to acquire any U.S. assets in order to purchase a barrel of oil that is priced in dollars. You could pay with eurodollars, which are dollar-denominated accounts that could be issued by any bank anywhere in the world.
And even if the oil were purchased with dollars drawn on a U.S. bank, there is no reason at all that the seller needs to retain the proceeds in that form. Those selling oil could convert those dollars back to euros or Japanese yen or whatever their hearts desired, and likewise could convert euros obtained through sales on an Iranian bourse back into dollars, if they wished. What ultimately determines the demand for dollars is not the unit of account for the transaction, but rather the desired asset holdings of those who are accumulating the wealth.
You could buy gold right now in New York for dollars or in London for pounds. Which one is cheaper? Guess what-- you'll pay exactly the same price either place once you make the currency conversion at the current exchange rate. The same will surely hold for crude oil.
And the notion that the U.S. dollar is currently "backed by oil" is so nonsensical that it is difficult even to fathom what that phrase is intended to convey. When we say that under a gold standard, the dollar is backed by gold, I know exactly what that means-- it means you can surrender dollars at any time to obtain a fixed amount of gold promised by the government. But if you surrender dollars on any given day in January 2006, how much oil are you going to get back? It varies literally by the minute, and the rate at which dollars get exchanged for oil has nothing to do with the promises made by any government and everything to do with market fluctuations in supply and demand.
Which is also my explanation for the prevalence of these theories on the internet-- there is a demand for a deeply conspiratorial interpretation of world events, and always someone willing to supply such.
Posted by James Hamilton at January 20, 2006 10:25 PM
LINK
its not really a matter of what you beleive, its a matter of how things are. Europe, America and China are all competing against each other to secure the highest and strongest value they can for their currency. The Euro, the Dollar and the Yen are all competing, this is why wars are fought, to gain controlling interest[excuse the pun] in various areas of the world. And yes america has slowly but surely gone bankrupt with 8 trillion in debt, this debt is escalating even faster now and the only way round it is to keep printing money, thats a bad thing.
America cant do that, it stopd paying attention to the gold standard a long long time ago.
America cant do that, it stopd paying attention to the gold standard a long long time ago.
QUOTE(PLO @ Feb 4 2006, 02:52 AM) [snapback]1047604[/snapback]
its not really a matter of what you beleive, its a matter of how things are. Europe, America and China are all competing against each other to secure the highest and strongest value they can for their currency. The Euro, the Dollar and the Yen are all competing, this is why wars are fought, to gain controlling interest[excuse the pun] in various areas of the world. And yes america has slowly but surely gone bankrupt with 8 trillion in debt, this debt is escalating even faster now and the only way round it is to keep printing money, thats a bad thing.
America cant do that, it stopd paying attention to the gold standard a long long time ago.
Very true. Here is the extra credit question: Who is the US indebt to?
China lol and people honestly belive america will be allowed to attack Iran.
HAHA
China gets a majority of their oil from their.
HAHA
China gets a majority of their oil from their.
QUOTE(Triniant @ Feb 4 2006, 03:35 AM) [snapback]1047661[/snapback]
Very true. Here is the extra credit question: Who is the US indebt to?
With the saudi's i believe although i'm no expert i believe in the deal that was made with them in the 70's also involed them banking all the dollars in american banks effectivly giving america unlimited credit
(please anyone correct me if i'm wrong but thats what i was led to beleive on a documentary)
well the total amount of money bankd by the saudis in the american economy makes up for about 1% of it.
look up the US-Saudi money wheel, a lot of shady dealings goes on especialy with the Carlyle Group who act as "economic advisors" to the saudi monarchy. And its funny because sadui probably bank rolled 9/11 and yet america still deals with them, hmmm.
look up the US-Saudi money wheel, a lot of shady dealings goes on especialy with the Carlyle Group who act as "economic advisors" to the saudi monarchy. And its funny because sadui probably bank rolled 9/11 and yet america still deals with them, hmmm.
QUOTE(Triniant @ Feb 3 2006, 09:35 PM) [snapback]1047661[/snapback]
Very true. Here is the extra credit question: Who is the US indebt to?
Well since the Federal Reserve is private, and the American people do not own any stock in it, I would assume the international bankers who own the stock in the Fed.
Rothchilds own it. Well they founded it, so probably still do have considerable influence in it.
soon this will be a moot point as we will be tapping Alaska for all the oil we need
QUOTE(PLO @ Feb 2 2006, 03:13 AM) [snapback]1044999[/snapback]
US only has about 80 million in gold reserves, see their fundamental mistake was to replace oil basicaly with the gold standard. Europe has still hoarded, and no doubt the middle east a sh** load of gold.
"Iran wants to take euro's instead of dollars
big deal
sounds like if i open a store and take canadian money instead of american
i really dont get it"
well thats what saddam wanted to do, so america invaded Iraq. This is why theres so much nonesense about Iran because their planing the same thing.
If countries are trading for oil in dollars, it keeps the U.S ddollar afloat, if they start trading large portions of it in Euros were once it dollars, the dollar goes down and the Euro goes, strangthing the Euro and severly lowering the dollar. IF the dollar gets lowerd, its not worth so much, they loose a lot of buying power externaly and internaly to fund say their military, where 400 billion a year of their revenue goes. A further 300 billion[roughly] goes to paying off their defecit, i.e internal loans. If the dollar goes down they wont have the money to pay these things off, and most likely the dollar will collapse and will be followed by a massive depretion.
Its all about trade, cant really be arsed explainin it all mate theres dozens of posts all about it the petro dollar/euro cycle.
Exactly PLO, you're correct. For those who have followed the Iraqi economical flow back in the year 2000, Saddam officially stated that they would no longer accept the USD as the main currency dealings for its oil and opted for the Euro instead. People were scratching their heads over his act and were even laughing him off as at that time the USD was still stronger and widely accepted than the Euro. So one literal way of looking at it, he's making losses instead of profits. But nope as time moves on as the Euro picked up its pace and the USD dwindles (& still dwindling now) did Saddam's move became a right one instead. At that time, major investors in China, Russia and even France were more than happy to be dealing that way with Iraq and it suggested a trend to move to another more reliable so-to-speak currency and leave the USD one side.
But note that was not an international bourse (or an oil trading market), but just oil dealings within the country. So although the harm caused could increase tenfold as time moves on (maybe even for considerable time), it would not be as shocking as an introductory trade system based on another more reliable and trusted currency on the international level because here we are dealing with very high oil prices and its crisis does not look like retreating anytime soon. So if you ask me why Iraq was invaded, I would say because of this problem. Their intent was to switch the entire petro-Euro dealings back to petro-dollars. PLO stated fully in the above quotation.
And et daddy, you are getting a little confused here. Have you any macroeconomics knowledge going behind all this mess? Ok please no sarcasm here, but I have found that people do not understand how much of a mess would be created should Iran be allowed to do the same thing as Iraq has done. If Iran starts an international oil bourse based on the Euro now, it would spark an inevitable end to the two bigheads in the world oil trading markets in NYMEX and IPE. The oil issue would be almost instantenously be transferred from the West to the East, therefore dealing more damage for the sovereignty of the West on oil. There are so many implications should this event would take place and it is not a whether you believe or not, simply say the economy works that way as people would react when you have a cheaper and more reliable alternative over the other.
So say the bourse kickstarts in March the 20th, we're gonna be seeing lots of nations coming inside the fray too. Russia, China, Venezuela would definitely contribute as they would also want to see the economic tilt towards an Eastern-based one. Others like Japan would surely be interested too. Other smaller oil producing nations like my country Malaysia and Indonesia would also jump in the wagon as the current price of oil is too much of a cost to be handled, and cannot risk anymore in the future (note that my country is under heavy oil subsidizing). My brother calculated that if now or near future oil prices would be traded in NYMEX for say $60, you can actually get a barrel for about 45 Euros in the new oil bourse. So one it's cheaper through the figures itself, and the Euro is the next-best alternative compared to the shaky and close-to-useless USD now (as evident in the precious metal markets now). So if you're an international customer of oil, where will you go? Something cheaper and will (if world community join hands) bloom in the future, or take the risk of dealing in the usual USD and continue to harm your nation's economy thanks to this one but huge burden? You live in a free-market economy (or close since the Unocal-Chevron incident
), you decide.Then when this happens, nations like China, Russia and Japan who house some of the most USD reserves will start to stop taking in USDs anymore, but even leading to a possible dumping of their USDs into Euros. Note you can criticize Russia's economy all you want, but they still have more than enough USD reserves to trigger a major depression should they circulate all of it back to the US. When this takes place, the USD will start to flow back in the US as it is deemed unwanted by the biggest economies in the world, therefore triggering a massive depreciation of the USD's value. No you won't get richer as your money flows back, the economy does not work like that. You have to cope with a huge amount of USD being directed back in such a short period of time, and this one would trigger a major depression as cited above by PLO. As the value drops like hell, the US people will get poorer and even dropping standards to a third-world nation in the future as the purchasing power of the consumers go tumble like crap. Investors would back off to other nations, producers would also re-direct and blast off of the US. And the US is so dependent on foreign goods as they produce close to zero, and with the ignorance level of both the people and the free-market environment, people will suffer terribly as they have no alternative but to purchase very cheap goods to sustain themselves.
If this continues, all that has been worked out by your former great yet opportunist-cheat Marshall in his Marshall Plan would crumble as the US will lose its current role as the main manipulator of the world economy. No more "deal in USD or don't deal at all" scenario any longer. The USD currency value would be as close as toilet paper, but this is also trouble as the US is everyone's top-3 or top-5 list of traders in the world, imagine a sudden shock when one of your major trade partners is stopped dead on its tracks. The world economy would stay stagnant until it finally collapses.
I am still amazed by how much the Bush admin is boasting of its heightening USD value compared to the Yen and Euro now, because when the bourse opens, we'll see what is what then. My fellow American friends, do not be deceived by this madman, please do your own studies and research and find your answers besides being briefed only in CNBC or CNN. You will know that the Bush admin is now trying to convince the world to its final breath of the stability of its economies, and even going to the extend of toiling around with its statistics. Go analyse them deeper, it's phony. When you economy is growing so "very strong" (as in Bush quote) when your trade deficit is mounting in such a monstrous and apocalyptic manner, you have every reason to be worried. And now with the concealment of the M3 information from the public, it is only going to get from worse to worst.
Stay aware folks, bad times coming ahead of us. We'll see how the US would deal with Iran first and how much of an extent will it go to save their economy and restructure themselves as the dominant force in the world economy once again. Expect more 'terrorism' words to appear in your screens again as long as this matter continues.
Once the eastern countries change the currencies, there will indeed be some mass anarchy. The cost of gas is going to sky rocket, and this is going to destroy any lower to middle class family that has to commute any distance to work. Not to mention any person(s) that relie heavily on gas to work, such as truckers, taxi cabs, bus drivers, all the way down to the pizza hut delivery boy. It creates a domino effect that can cause some massive damage since everyone has relied on this for so long. Everyone's answer is that they will find a gas alternative ?. Even so, this would never be mainstream fast enough to all of North America before something like this wreaks it's havok.
Yes Azalin, alternative resources is one of the only keys for the US should the Iranian oil sanctions scenario goes through, which is roughly next month. I find it foolish for senator McCain to be uttering a terrible comment regarding this danger some time ago, stating that if the horrendous oil price hikes is a consequence of the Iranian referral, then so be it. He speaks for rich-dogs for people like himself, or his affilliates who have big stakes in oil companies and not for the entire American nation. Higher classes would be downgraded so hard to the lower middle-class, middle class down to low, and low to the very lowest. The depression that the US would be facing would be ranked as the top 3 worst depressions ever faced in history, and some economic analysts are saying it will be the worst ever.
The problem is not only faced by the consumers, but also the entire market of the US economy. Watch your companies (your remaining and defiant GM and Ford, airplane companies) go down one by one, and possible take-overs of your locals by outsiders (proposed Ford buyout by Mazda). Your economy would shrink in its quality to the lowest of grades, and who suffers the most? The people of course. You think Bush would care about them? He even mentioned recently that he would not give a crock regarding critical problems faced now by both GM and Ford, what a statement of confidence from the leader of your country eh? And GM's sales are improving in China, so if possible they could also divert their attentions and just abandoned the worthless US market that does not care about its life anyway. In short, oil prices at about $90-100 is absolutely unsustainable. I'm afraid my country here in Malaysia would even let go of its subsidies, and we're gonna bear the brunt of paying a massive THREE times our current price for oil. Everything will rise including your household goods, cutdowns in number of meals or sizes of meals per-day would also be realistic at that time.
The US right now is in a lose-lose situation; that is imposing sanctions on Iran and cope with monstrous oil prices, OR allow the oil bourse to go through and cope with the currency crisis. How severe either one promotes is still to be witnessed though. Whatever it is, it will continue to swell further their trade deficit figures and increase their debts to further ungodly numbers. This will also prove to their debtors that the reliability and confidence of their economic dealings are very dangerous and fragile, triggering a panic in claiming the amount that they've owed to them and will demand that the US settle the debts as soon as possible. When that happens, tell me where can the US find more money to pay them off in such a short time?? Unless they would wanna execute a contingency plan ala-Nazi style by hyperinflating their economy by means of overprinting their money amount, they have very very very very limited ways out. Since they have pushed for the referral, I guess they're choosing outcome 1 as stated above. Even in my opinion, that would be the best of the two worst as the oil bourse would slap the US economy so hard in the coming times that it likely won't be able to pick itself up anymore.
Their last bet in which some strategist have also agreed (at least in one scenario only) would be nuking Iran and splatter its guts as soon as possible (giving the other problems faced such as military demoralisition from Iraq and Afghanistan, record low military recruitment stats and Cindy Sheehan ). Iran is playing a timebomb key here, for they know that the US needs them more than they need the US (quote Ahmedinejad, he's stating probably under this terms); that is the longer the issue is withstanding, the more the US economy will suffer til they beg on their knees. They must control Iran just like what they did to Iraq, at least in the short term of containing the oil price although it is high but not ever-inflating. It will be interesting to see how all this will unfold in the coming months. I don't want to be a predictor here, I'm just stating my analysis results. Fellow Americans, don't watch Iran and its phony nuclear issue, but rather your economy following the incident. Stock up food just in case, for you'll never know what will happen. Just my 2....nah, 10 cents on that.
(Oh almost forgot, one link for the Iranian oil bourse: http://www.321gold.com/editorials/petrov/petrov011706.html)
The problem is not only faced by the consumers, but also the entire market of the US economy. Watch your companies (your remaining and defiant GM and Ford, airplane companies) go down one by one, and possible take-overs of your locals by outsiders (proposed Ford buyout by Mazda). Your economy would shrink in its quality to the lowest of grades, and who suffers the most? The people of course. You think Bush would care about them? He even mentioned recently that he would not give a crock regarding critical problems faced now by both GM and Ford, what a statement of confidence from the leader of your country eh? And GM's sales are improving in China, so if possible they could also divert their attentions and just abandoned the worthless US market that does not care about its life anyway. In short, oil prices at about $90-100 is absolutely unsustainable. I'm afraid my country here in Malaysia would even let go of its subsidies, and we're gonna bear the brunt of paying a massive THREE times our current price for oil. Everything will rise including your household goods, cutdowns in number of meals or sizes of meals per-day would also be realistic at that time.
The US right now is in a lose-lose situation; that is imposing sanctions on Iran and cope with monstrous oil prices, OR allow the oil bourse to go through and cope with the currency crisis. How severe either one promotes is still to be witnessed though. Whatever it is, it will continue to swell further their trade deficit figures and increase their debts to further ungodly numbers. This will also prove to their debtors that the reliability and confidence of their economic dealings are very dangerous and fragile, triggering a panic in claiming the amount that they've owed to them and will demand that the US settle the debts as soon as possible. When that happens, tell me where can the US find more money to pay them off in such a short time?? Unless they would wanna execute a contingency plan ala-Nazi style by hyperinflating their economy by means of overprinting their money amount, they have very very very very limited ways out. Since they have pushed for the referral, I guess they're choosing outcome 1 as stated above. Even in my opinion, that would be the best of the two worst as the oil bourse would slap the US economy so hard in the coming times that it likely won't be able to pick itself up anymore.
Their last bet in which some strategist have also agreed (at least in one scenario only) would be nuking Iran and splatter its guts as soon as possible (giving the other problems faced such as military demoralisition from Iraq and Afghanistan, record low military recruitment stats and Cindy Sheehan
). Iran is playing a timebomb key here, for they know that the US needs them more than they need the US (quote Ahmedinejad, he's stating probably under this terms); that is the longer the issue is withstanding, the more the US economy will suffer til they beg on their knees. They must control Iran just like what they did to Iraq, at least in the short term of containing the oil price although it is high but not ever-inflating. It will be interesting to see how all this will unfold in the coming months. I don't want to be a predictor here, I'm just stating my analysis results. Fellow Americans, don't watch Iran and its phony nuclear issue, but rather your economy following the incident. Stock up food just in case, for you'll never know what will happen. Just my 2....nah, 10 cents on that. (Oh almost forgot, one link for the Iranian oil bourse: http://www.321gold.com/editorials/petrov/petrov011706.html)
I have been watching this for sometime now. Indeed it would be a good idea to stock up on food and supplies, but more importantly, oil/gas. My friends may call me crazy but soon I think Im going to fill a few cans of gas before prices begin to raise to ridiculous prices. You can then sell them at your own price for friends in need, or more importantly save yourself a lot of money come the future.
Once again, Bush could careless about the middle / lower class, he will have enough gas to drive himself around for the rest of his life, but we the people are the main ones affected. You cannot always trust your government to make the right choices, especially for yourself and family. You need to take matters into your own hands and make sure yourself as the people you care about are safe.
The US dollar, and the economy will begin to fall. Iran and Iraq would love to see United States brought to there knees. They spent such a vast amount of money on military and weapons, but it goes to show the demise of a country is just as much economical as it is military wise. Personally Im not sure how long it will take for drastic changes to take effect.... 2, maybe 3 years at the most I would assume.
Once again, Bush could careless about the middle / lower class, he will have enough gas to drive himself around for the rest of his life, but we the people are the main ones affected. You cannot always trust your government to make the right choices, especially for yourself and family. You need to take matters into your own hands and make sure yourself as the people you care about are safe.
The US dollar, and the economy will begin to fall. Iran and Iraq would love to see United States brought to there knees. They spent such a vast amount of money on military and weapons, but it goes to show the demise of a country is just as much economical as it is military wise. Personally Im not sure how long it will take for drastic changes to take effect.... 2, maybe 3 years at the most I would assume.
Hello again Azalin,
Hehe, yes that is a good idea, but in my opinion a rather short-term one. People now are also not willing to take the risk on the USD and are investing instead on other currencies, and precious metals like gold and platinum. Well they think that if the USD goes down, they just don't wanna have anything to do with it. They're linking some of this events already to the WW2 economy scenario, and are preparing for the outcome and aftermath. Actually they are wrong, because the risk the world economy's facing right now is of a totally different scenario. The US is now on the brink of going bankrupt....oh no wait, the governments can't go bankrupt, so they would have to stick to their last tactic of overprinting their money to pay off their debts. Don't ask me why they can't go bankrupt, ask the economy instead. Well as long as you get my meaning, and the US is the main player of the world economies now and they cannot risk themselves falling off the trapeze line here because it would also adversely affect others. The US economy is more to like the foundation block of global economy, imagine pulling one piece off the side of UNO Stacko block right at the bottom. The rest will fall too because the fundamental balancing factor has been shaken and soon, diminish.
This whole thing really was borned back after the WW2 scenario at 1947 when the West were in a direct head-to-head conflict with the Soviets. The US sensed the opportunity to get a good lead ahead when everybody is down, and they took well alright. The Marshall Plan promises economic help to any nation within its deal, but only if they dealt in the USD for transactions. All this hegemony seems to me is finally coming to an end, but not without a grand finale.
So if you would wanna stock up on oil now, then maybe it is a good idea. But I don't really think people are still going to be so helplessly dumb as to continue using cars or other motor vehicles when you can only afford its ride for the next 20 mins or so. Investing in precious metals is also good, but as I've said, only in the short term. When the economy is in turmoil and the currency value (money) goes wonka, nobody would want to trade in valuable items anymore ie. oil, gold, platinum, silver. Producers would definitely want something that would give them benefits too, and if you're gonna give them gold for food stuff, the heck they gonna use that for at the latter? Play the final-hand game as to passing the gold around while it's still possible? Build a new palace and rival the Taj Mahal? Haha, I'm not sure.
Be careful everyone, not just Americans but to the world too. The Iranian crisis has sounded the alarm bell, take precautionarys now before it's too late.
Hehe, yes that is a good idea, but in my opinion a rather short-term one. People now are also not willing to take the risk on the USD and are investing instead on other currencies, and precious metals like gold and platinum. Well they think that if the USD goes down, they just don't wanna have anything to do with it. They're linking some of this events already to the WW2 economy scenario, and are preparing for the outcome and aftermath. Actually they are wrong, because the risk the world economy's facing right now is of a totally different scenario. The US is now on the brink of going bankrupt....oh no wait, the governments can't go bankrupt, so they would have to stick to their last tactic of overprinting their money to pay off their debts. Don't ask me why they can't go bankrupt, ask the economy instead. Well as long as you get my meaning, and the US is the main player of the world economies now and they cannot risk themselves falling off the trapeze line here because it would also adversely affect others. The US economy is more to like the foundation block of global economy, imagine pulling one piece off the side of UNO Stacko block right at the bottom. The rest will fall too because the fundamental balancing factor has been shaken and soon, diminish.
This whole thing really was borned back after the WW2 scenario at 1947 when the West were in a direct head-to-head conflict with the Soviets. The US sensed the opportunity to get a good lead ahead when everybody is down, and they took well alright. The Marshall Plan promises economic help to any nation within its deal, but only if they dealt in the USD for transactions. All this hegemony seems to me is finally coming to an end, but not without a grand finale.
So if you would wanna stock up on oil now, then maybe it is a good idea. But I don't really think people are still going to be so helplessly dumb as to continue using cars or other motor vehicles when you can only afford its ride for the next 20 mins or so. Investing in precious metals is also good, but as I've said, only in the short term. When the economy is in turmoil and the currency value (money) goes wonka, nobody would want to trade in valuable items anymore ie. oil, gold, platinum, silver. Producers would definitely want something that would give them benefits too, and if you're gonna give them gold for food stuff, the heck they gonna use that for at the latter? Play the final-hand game as to passing the gold around while it's still possible? Build a new palace and rival the Taj Mahal? Haha, I'm not sure.
Be careful everyone, not just Americans but to the world too. The Iranian crisis has sounded the alarm bell, take precautionarys now before it's too late.
QUOTE(Triniant @ Feb 4 2006, 03:35 AM) [snapback]1047661[/snapback]
Very true. Here is the extra credit question: Who is the US indebt to?
Simple...China, Japan in huge quantities...and we're talking in hundreds of billions of USD. Your trade deficit is in trillions, go calculate...
QUOTE(Engulf @ Feb 6 2006, 12:39 PM) [snapback]1050635[/snapback]
Simple...China, Japan in huge quantities...and we're talking in hundreds of billions of USD. Your trade deficit is in trillions, go calculate...
To the tune of an est. 500 billion from Japan, an est. 140 billion from China and let's not forget the Carribean (est. 62B) or Hong Kong (est. 56B), just to name a few. Not only is the US borrowing from their asian partners (and others), but how about from the US's social security trust fund at approximatley 2.4 trillion over the next 10 years? I assume the next question would be why? Well, we can probably look at Mr. Bush's proposed tax cuts first and possibly come up with an answer, but hey, I could be wrong; something to research though.
Not to mention the amount of money they have spent on there military, and military technical advancements. I would assume the theory they have is if they become more advanced military wise, no one would ever challenge them, and they could make any decree or diplomatic stance possible out of fear and intimidation. However whats going to happen when the money runs dry, and they cannot maintain the vehicles they have, or better yet, pay there troops ?. Sad to say, but if United States hopes to win out of diplomacy, I highly doubt the arabian countries are going to cut them any deal with all the bullying they have been doing in the middle east. So if they do decide to war it out, they better start sending more troops over ASAP.
my $ buys a loaf of bread now, and it will buy a loaf of bread a year from now
no worries here
no worries here
QUOTE(et's daddy @ Feb 7 2006, 05:00 PM) [snapback]1052494[/snapback]
my $ buys a loaf of bread now, and it will buy a loaf of bread a year from now
no worries here
I wish I had more faith in the US like you do. It would make life a lot less stressfull. In the end I'm not worried. In the end God will provide, and even martial law results in my death, I'm not afraid to die.
QUOTE(scoobysnack @ Feb 7 2006, 06:44 PM) [snapback]1052565[/snapback]
I wish I had more faith in the US like you do. It would make life a lot less stressfull. In the end I'm not worried. In the end God will provide, and even martial law results in my death, I'm not afraid to die.
i really dont think it will amount to much
certainly not by the end of March
however, i do agree, the US gov will rip apart alot of the world before allowing the country to slip into a deep depression
i dont always advocate violence (i say 'always' because i do agree the Iraq war saved Iraqi lives, and lets please not turn this thread into a debate about that)
but, i am sort of surprised with the rise in gas prices already that no one has gone into EXXON offices and started shooting people
now i wouldnt advocate that at all
but hell, this is America, some people here shoot a guy for not enough pickles on thier burger
QUOTE(Azalin @ Feb 7 2006, 05:01 PM) [snapback]1052110[/snapback]
Sad to say, but if United States hopes to win out of diplomacy, I highly doubt the arabian countries are going to cut them any deal with all the bullying they have been doing in the middle east. So if they do decide to war it out, they better start sending more troops over ASAP.
Although I do agree that the Iranian oil bourse has the potential to cause great damage, it does not mean the rest of the Middle Eastern OPEC countries will follow suit (at least, not right away). A lot depends on politics. At the moment, Saudi Arabia is the frontrunner of OPEC and if you did not know, they have a pretty tight deal with the US; you can say the same about Kuwait and Iraq (for obvious reasons). If the Euro makes a great impact with the major players (Russia, China, Japan), then yes, the rest of the ME (and the world, for that matter) will probably jump the US ship, but there are a lot of "if's" and "unknown's". Politics still hold a lot of weight, but money changes everything (cliché, but it works). We will just have to wait and see.
Every generation goes through some sort of “doomsday type” scenario. Regardless of the outcome we have to live life to the fullest. If, in the afterlife, we could look back at the last five years and reminisce; what do you want to remember? Sweating over conspiracy theories, doomsday predictions, what if’s, or how about a fulfilled life? The choice belongs to the individual, but I can tell you one thing, I am not going to lose any sleep just because some pieces don’t always seem to fit the puzzle. On the other hand, I will be prepared, “in case of”, but that is a blanket precaution for any number of situations.
im not sure that the Saudi's and Kuwait would turn from the US
with as much money and greed we have is it worth it ?
with as much money and greed we have is it worth it ?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.