It's true. Secret societies --- the main ones you hear about --- are most often good for the progress of humanity. I belong to several of them ... such as the Freemasons, the Rosicrucians, the Martinists, and so forth. Think of the brotherhood behind them as you would Gandalf the White. He's a helpful guy, there to help out the wee human and hobbitt folk during periods of great turmoil of Middle-Earth. So it is with these ancient brotherhoods.

Now some "secret societies" such as the Freemasons (sic) are really on the decline ... so it's pretty absurd to talk of them taking over the world, and whatnot. Yet, it is important to know that the U.S. was founded upon Freemasonry --- not Christian fundamentalism! If one should doubt this, just book a trip to the George Washington National Masonic Monument, or, say, the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvannia in Philadelphia, for example. It's a glorious fraternity, which unfortunately, has passed its prime ... somewhat like our republic itself.

Groups like the Rosicrucians seek to preserve the ancient teachings of the Greek and Egyptian Mystery Schools. This is an important service to humanity. It is like preserving the vast treasure you see at the end of National Treasure ... except allegorically. The Martinist Order claims to preserve more of the pristine teachings of Christianity before it became dumbed-down. As such it is an Illuminist organization.

There are other organizations that are termed "reconstructionist" in that they are working to preserve wise teachings that were almost wiped out by foolish priestcraft. The Julian Society is one such organization.

There are groups dedicated to reviving the Druidic teachings, like, say, the Druid Fellowship. There are groups dedicated to reviving Nordic "pre-Christian" religion and its system of rune magic. There is the Asatru Folk Assembly, the Rune Guild, among other groups.

In Asia, there are groups that are working to preserve the oral or secret traditions of Taoism and Buddhism, such as Falun Dafa. There are wonderful groups like the 3HO organization which now openly teaches the most secret practices of the Hindus and Sikhs, known as Kundalini Yoga.

All these groups work in service of the Invisible Hierarchy to help guide humanity towards a more enlightened future. They deserve your applause rather than your fear.

Pax Deorum,
Frater Rosencruez

I'm really glad you showed up on this forum, some one who is actually aware of secret societies, and who actually claims to be a member of them to some extent. I agree, the US was founded on freemason ideology. My great uncle whos a freemason says the same thing, but the general public would argue with you.

I disagree with everything you represent, but I'm interested to talk with you. We learn by exchanging ideas. I will not shut you down and dismiss you like most will here. I will listen to what you say, and then tell you what I think.

You say secret societies represent gandalf the grey, helping to guide humanity towards enlightenment. Who then represents the eye of sauramon? What is the evil you are trying to overcome in the world, the church? I hope you know the Catholic church was corrupted a long time ago by your order. It's now full of freemasons, when once they were banned.

You mention the invisible hierarchy, who are they? Do you even know or have any idea? Why not reveal themselves to humanity to speed things up? Why is everything a secret. Like I said before in the illuminti thread. Knowledge is power, which is why they keep it and only reveal bits and pieces to you as you climb the power structure. If they didn't have the knowledge for themselves what power would they have over you, that you continue to seek enlightenment from them.

How do you know they are not using you.

By way of deception, thou shalt do war.

I see this as a battle between light and dark. I personly think your enlightenment/lucifer is an angel of darkness masquarading as an angel of light. I suggest you research the near death experiance. Here's a good site.

http://www.near-death.com/


"The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings."
--John F. Kennedy

Has always had a backdoor liking to secret societies, meaning that they are something I don't always think about but I do have those moments when I get the curiosity bug.

that's great and all, but the cops in black-ski masks are training to take my guns and kill me!

Heheh. I suppose we're more in danger of becoming a police state than we realize. That has more to do with the "military-industrial-corporate-congressional" complex than anything having to do with the "Illuminati."

Scoobysnack,

I hope you'll find some of your other questions were addressed on other threads.

Regarding Tolkien, well, it must be remembered that although he was steeped in Nordic mythology, he was at heart a devout Catholic. I was merely mentioning Gandalf as an analogy. Sometimes the analogy works and sometimes the analogy breaks down if one carries it too far. Tolkien, being so wonderfully intricate in his storytelling, can be debated endlessly. Some say Sauron represented Odin, the Germanic god. That might be what Tolkien was getting at. But the "White Brotherhood" of Saruman and Gandalf is truly analogous to that brotherhood that is behind all the major religions in the world, past and present.

As for the Catholic Church being "ruined" by Freemasons, the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre would be happy to know that his conspiracy theory was being carried on. The archbishop, of course, was convinced that Masons were behind the liturgical reforms of Vatican II. No, I suspect that the Vatican will not be completely destroyed until the DaVinci Code movie comes out later in May.

Pax deorum,
a Frater

i disagree-- the "real" secret societies that go back to "joseph" in egypt have done nothing but enslave and exploit humanity-- the current secret society that rules through deciet are surely the very service agencies known as "secret" ie the cia,mi6,mossad...ect,ect and are indeed still controlled by a "black" king-- and yet we have all been trained to ignore the little man behind the curtain as it isnt really a secret and their identities are known

Scoobysnack (and perhaps one or two others) were curious about the "hierarchy" and who they really were. I'd like to quote a certain story that perhaps you may or may not find inspirational in this regard. The story illustrates the old occult saying, "When the pupil is ready, the master appears." Perhaps it will need a short introduction:


The French mystic and psychologist Paul Sedir (died in 1926) had been on a spiritual quest for most of his life. He had been a prominent member of many esoteric "secret societies" in France, including the Rosicrucian Order and the Martinist Order. Towards the end of his life he became somewhat dissillusioned and sold his large collection of rare occult books, suspended his fraternal activities, and was beginning to feel his lungs filling with a fluid which he recognized as a medical doctor represented the initial stages of T.B. All his life he sought contact with a true spiritual Master, and one day his wish came true.

Here is an account of his meeting with this mysterious "Master of Masters," as translated from the French by Mouni Sadhu:

It was a cold, rainy, November evening in Paris. I had just returned from my patients, eaten my supper and lain down on the couch, being tired after my day's long activities. As usual by evening, I had a slight fever and I knew that the treacherous T.B. process in one of my lungs was the cause. At that time I had given up all my former hopes and aims. There was an emptiness in me and indifference to everything. It did not matter whether I lived or died. My almost empty house, with its bare shelves and chests, looking like dark caves, and the unbroken stillness --- I had no servant living with me --- rather oppressed me.

I was ready to retire to my bedroom, when the doorbell rang. I guessed what it would be, a patient who was too poor to afford to pay any other doctor. People already knew that I never refused my services, and did not care about money.

The late visitor was a modest-looking official whose wife was dying of T.B. He told me, with tears in his eyes, that there was no hope for her, her hours were numbered, and it was not help he wanted; it was too late. "But she is suffering so terribly," he said, "her lungs are gone and she is sufficating. All I ask is that you relieve her last hours of agony. An injection perhaps, you will know best."

I could not fail him. So, silently I put on my overcoat, took an umbrella and we went out.

At that time there was no tram in that suburb, so we walked in heavy rain and wind. My own head was swollen with fever, and in my chest were sharp pains, the origin of which I knew only too well. My companion and I were both silent.

We were passing one of the street lamps which scarcely lighted the empty footpath, when something prompted me to raise my head and look up. Beside the pole I saw a tall, well-built man, with the figure of an athlete visible even through his expensive, well-cut clothes. His back was turned to me so I could not see his face. As soon as I came closer, he turned round and with great dignity politely raised his hat. He asked if I was a doctor going to a patient. When I confirmed this, he continued: "I beg your permission to go with you. There is just the possibility that I can be helpful."

My first thought was that there was little help that could be given as the woman was already dying, and was beyond human aid. But when I saw his face, I had to agree instantly. The man was apparently in his forties, with regular features, the complexion as if burned by a tropical sun and eyes that looked at me with infinite quietness and force.

So we three went on our way. The door of the unhappy husband's home was not locked. In the small hall was an elderly lady with a grief-stricken face and eyes of despair. She greeted us, and said: "Too late, my son, there is no need for a doctor, but rather an undertaker. She died soon after you went in a spasm of bleeding from the throat."

Her husband wept at these words. I said I would not stay as there was nothing more I could do, other than to sign the death certificate.

Then the three of us went into the bedroom. Two wax candles were burning, one on each side of the dead woman's head. For a doctor there was no possible doubt that before us lay only a corpse. The cheeks were colorless and waxy-looking skin covered the bones of the skull-like face. Shrunken by death, the meager hands were folded on the breast, and the whole body, so long tortured, seemed to beg only one last grace, the peace of a quiet grave.

Two young children knelt beside their mother's deathbed. Tears streamed down the husband's face.

Then I heard the firm voice of the Unknown Man beside me, asking if I would like to examine the body as I would need to do so for the death certificate. Actually, there was no need for any examination as the woman had already been dead for about an hour. But I thought it was best to perform this last formality. The pulse had ceased long ago. The limbs were cold and stiff as is usual with people emaciated by a dreadful disease. A little warmth still surrounded the solar plexus. But the whole body was rather like a skeleton.

I told the Man that the woman had been dead about an hour. A strange almost invisible smile crossed his powerful features. He spoke to the grief-stricken husband, and his voice sounded grave. "Do you want your wife alive? Will you swear to me now, that you will always be good to her, if she comes back?"

The poor man was astonished and almost afraid. "It is not possible! See for yourself! Surely she is dead." The voice of the stranger went on pitilessly: "I ask you only if you want to have her back again? And will you swear that she will never again suffer from your behavior?"

The man replied that he would take an oath on the Holy Cross, only that it was too late and he could not believe in the impossible.

Then the Unknown Man went close to the bed, took the head of the dead woman gently in his hands, bent down and whispered to her; but everyone in the room could hear his words clearly.

"My dear, my daughter, come back again, return, they need you. It will be favorably counted to you, this sacrifice which you make."

When we heard that whisper, there was no doubt in us but that she must rise from the dead. There was no power which could oppose the words of the Unknown. The dead woman immediately lifted her head and opened her eyes, looking around as though from another world. "I was dreaming," she whispered.

The Man ordered more lamps to be brought. The old lady and her son went out like automatons, and I felt that they did not yet believe what had happened before their eyes only seconds ago.

When they came back, holding large lamps in their hands, the woman, restored to life, sat up in bed her face, pressed close to the powerful arm of the Unknown, like a child seeking a secure place. She wept.

The Man then took both lamps in his hands and directed the light onto the face of the woman. Before my eyes, the flesh began to reappear under the skin of her cheeks, neck, and shoulders, and the whole complexion returned to its natural color, instead of that of a corpse, which I had seen only seconds ago.

The old lady and her son dropped on their knees before the Man. The children raised their hands as before the holy image in church. But he quickly put the lamps on the table and lifted the kneeling people with a movement of irresistible force.

"Be thankful to the Almighty alone, who in His Grace has restored her to you," he said gently. "She is better already," he added with a smile which I believe illumined the room more than the lamps. "Give her fresh clothes and bring her some food!"

Turning to the husband he said: "And you my son, remember what you promised me!"

For a moment he stayed quietly among us without a word. I saw now on the bed sat a lovely young woman having little resemblance to the one which had lain there before. The Man, radiant with joy, took leave in the old French fashion, by kissing each one in the room on the forehead. Then he took my arm and we were back in the street once more.

He told me he was leaving Paris in half an hour on the midnight train for the Italian border. "From the express I catch my ship in Genoa for the Far East to Saigon. I cannot delay the travel. I have a reserved compartment for two, so if you wish you may accompany me on the train journey."

For the next eight hours he spoke quietly to me, revealing everything: my past, my future, explaining the reason for the happenings in my life, which before were unfathomable to me. At his words the Truth took a unique and logical form, and together with its fulfilment, my being has been changed.

His irresistible peace penetrated the darkest corners of my consciousness, and remained there forever. He showed me the Path and he unveiled things which cannot be spoken of or written. The only thing I can say is, that even if I had to suffer infinite agonies for timeless ages, the bliss of those eight hours spent with the Master would be like comparing the light of the sun with a dim candle.

The Master's behavior was that of an educated, well-bred Frenchman. Although he knew a dozen languages I was not sure to which nationality he belonged. I dared not ask any personal questions. But he was very friendly, and spoke to me as if to an old friend. I did not see in him any traces of asceticism, because he ate a normal meal with me in the railway station at Lyons and did not choose any special dishes.

He smoked, and when he offered me a cigarette, I refused politely, telling him about my lungs, and that I had to care for my health. He only laughed. "Do you really feel there is something still wrong in your chest, dear Doctor?"

Instinctively I breathed deeply, trying to find the old pain. But it was not there. I was cured? "Yes, my son," he said, "you are cured of your inner faults, so how could the physical ones resist being cured?" He read my thoughts as one reads the lines of an open book.

When I wished to ask his name, he told me before I said a word. "You will know it in a moment, but you will not be told it." And immediately, I knew it, from the soundless speech of the Master. But I will never betray this name to the world. Even later, when talking with Andreas and Stella, the Name was never uttered. "It is enough that we know it," said my friend.

He also told me that he and his wife saw the Master of Masters only twice in their lives, but they were sure he would visit them for the last time before they left this world.

"You are entitled to hope for the first time. If you follow his advice you will see him again in this life. I saw him first thirty years ago, and he was then also in his forties, as you say he is now. No one knows his birthplace or nationality: with a Frenchman he behaves as a Frenchman, with an Italian he behaves as an Italian, and so on. He is recognized in the most secret circles of the East and West, as a great Master. I saw many Yogis and Chinese Mandarins versed in the hidden teachings, prostrating before him without hesitation. Now he has a mission in the East and it is because of that, that he has left our country. He travels throughout the whole world."

All this happened when my friends Andreas and Stella were elderly, and they have long since passed away. Winter of life has now come for me and the hour when I may see Him for the last time is not far off. I am looking forward to that hour, in His peace and certainty, which he has sown in me for ever.

Paul Sedir died in 1926. ***

There you have an example of the occult saying, When the pupil is ready, the Master appears.

--- Frater Rosencruez

Since their identities are known, as you say, how about filling us in on who this "black king" is you speak of. Sounds like the makings of a pretty good thriller.

So you are saying the illuminati don't really come to my house and molest me at night? cuz like they still are.



so have em stop.

plz. kthnx

The thing with the so called "Illuminati" I hear these days I agree with.
Its just the middle bit(now!) I dont like the sound of. Marshal law,rounding people up like cattle,1984 sh**.

Without sounding like a horrible nazi I do think Earth could be a better place to live without stupid people,and being illuminated and being more than you can be isnt that easy in 2006.
I think man holds himself back and can be much more,without the chains of all the hassles of peanut things in life,money,jobs,TV,etc.
But i guess whatever the outcome there will still be a type of hierachy dictating how to live so whatever the outcome we will either be dead or still not really free.
(I sound like a socialist hippy:)

Uh, I'm rather sure your sexual, um, or sado-masochistic fantasies aren't related to the Illuminati, thank you very much. Either it was a not-so-evident attempt at humor or you're ... well I don't need to explain.

There's nothing wrong with being a "socialist hippie." After all, before our society was distorted with empty religion and rampant capitalism, entheogens were considered the mainstream path to the spiritual planes. Hippies intuitively stumbled onto that. The 60s were a good Zeitgeist and we can only hope that the spirit of Aquarius returns before we're drowned in ocean of disposable goods and hollow theocracies.

Secret societies have one beef with me. They keep power in the hands of the few. I would like to be included. I feel kind of left out and ineffectiv. Ethics thrive when actions are visible for all to see.

But it doesnt happen that way. These individuals collect the power, protect it. They also activly shape the human conscious with disregard of moral peocedure. They are the globalist who view 2,000 lives in a day as a sacrifice for some greater good.

Does the end Justify the means? That is the ultimate question that i have... so far.

I'm wondering the same thing. If the secret societies are trying to shape civilization in the image of enlightened, is this a cause where it makes sacraficing humans nessasary. Not sacraficing on alters, but going to war that results in many deaths with the purpose of creating a better world after the fact. does that make sense

My question for Adbox and Scooby is this:

Is it good or bad to cut a person's arm off?

Go ahead - answer... I'll wait.

Now, consider if the hand is gangrenous - and the only way to save the body is to remove the arm surgically.

Do you have the same answer? Do you need to know that Joe Smith is going to die if doctors in Des Moines don't remove the arm to prevent the spread of gangrene and development of sepsis? Personally, I doubt it... as I don't need to know either.

What happens if it was YOUR arm? And then what happens if you don't have the intellect or background to understand the real reasons why someone wants to hack your arm off?? Is it still good or bad?

I ask this to demonstrate that it would take SO long to get everyone in the world to understand and accept why Canada needs to invade Nicaragua and lose 10-15,000 soldiers, that it may delay things so long that the gangrene will spread past what can be controlled. Do we really, REALLY need to know?

This all being said, I still don't believe in a NWO or Illuminati that runs the world from behind a curtain...

Rosencruez, I'm sure you and comments are genuine, and reflect what you know aout the groups you belong to. So don't take the following reply to be meant as a personal knock, but....

There are problems with most secret societies, even ones with the majority of members being honorable, normal citizens (like Freemasons). The pyramidal structure and covert nature of these groups make them ideal for control by those with less than honorable intentions. Only those within the innermost circle know what the "bigger picture" really is, while the vast majority remain on the outer fringes unaware of what goes on, other than strictly defined areas of activity.

The Masons are an ideal "front" for establishing a positive public image. As others have said here, they either are members or have friends or family who are members of the Freemasons. As these are the majority of the group, they are basically good people, with good intentions, and who contribute to society in positive ways. But they don't know and are not permitted to know the inner workings of the group. That does not automatically mean the inner circle are "evil" or what have you. But the way to truly judge the intentions this or any other group is by the conduct and actions of those higher level members. That is not always easy to ascertain, because the mainstream media dutifully ignores these actions and evidence.

And the Mafia, Skull & Bones, the Hells Angels and the KKK are also secret societies - but I certainly wouldn't consider them to be a "good thing". The problem they have is a rather "negative" public image, unlike some of the others!

Who are you to decide when to exterminate a percentage of the human population. You and the illuminati are playing God. What makes you any different then Hitler? Some would argue, we would be better off with the Jews dead.

All you have to do is exchange "secret societies" with priesthoods and you'll be much further along the path towards truth. Personal gnosis was always viewed as a threat to their temporal power.

A Frater

Don't confuse the military-industrial-corporate-congressional complex with the Hierarchy. We can all rest assured that they aren't the "Unknown Superiors" in question.
L:.L:.L:.
Cro maat,
A Frater

Holy cow, Scoobysnack! First off - like I have said numerous times - I am NOT part of an organization that plays God. I was speaking hypothetically, and you went and took me completely seriously.

However, that being said, eventually, we ALL play god to a point. If you are employed, you are keeping someone else from having a job... you are playing God with their job opportunities. When you toss a half-eaten meal in the trash, you play God with those who have nothing. When you drive down the street with an open seat in your car, you play God with those that don't have a ride.

Eventually, once a person starts to get a wider world-view, you have to think in more abstract ways.

A city councilman talks a company into opening a factory in his little section of the city... what of the OTHER parts of the city? When he has $XX to spend on hiring police officers, the dollars tell him how many to hire - NOT the fact that there may be too much crime... he plays God again. To do good for someone, by default, someone else HAS to be slighted.

Now try running a country. How do you keep a naval base open on the West Coast when the majority of the tax money that pays for it comes from the East Coast? When you move it to consolidate it with another, what of the people that suddenly don't have work where the base USED to be?

Who do you establish trade lines with? By trading with Country A, you ignore the starving masses in Country G... and you play God again. If your country gets attacked, do you send the military in to defend your borders? If so, you play God with the soldiers lives... Your choice regarding going to attack the offending country's borders makes you play God yet again. Choices HAVE to be made... and that is why they get paid the big bucks.

So, pretending for a moment, let's say that there IS an organization that is running the world. They have to make these choices every day. They treat County A and Country G just like you treat your feet. Why didn't you buy new shoes - cuz your feet need them? Didn't you just play God? Well, letting Country G get invaded by Country D, and letting Country A rise in power just a little bit, may be something that is actually GOOD in the long run... that you and I can't see right now.

Do you smell what I am stepping in?

It is called world-view. No matter how large or small your world-view is, you still play God on a daily basis. In this case, you are just giving a group too much credit.

Secrets in an open society are never a good thing. Especially when the members of these clubs usually turn out to be powerful people.

Yeah, secrets are horrible! Hey, Dan, when are the police going to raid that drug house over on the west side of town? What is the code for Windows Vista? Can I get the minute by minute plan for the President when he visits Toledo next Tuesday?

Yeah, secrets are horrible!

Haha. Yeah and I'll bet thats exactly what the members of elite secret societies do. I bet they sit around in a their dungeon with their black robes and masturbating coffins and plan drug raids on criminals.

My point was that in EVERY society, there are perfectly good reasons to have secrets. Law enforcement, voting, locks on doors of personal residences, privacy laws, sealed bids on contracts, military strategy... these are all perfectly valid reasons to keep secrets. Even when Mrs. Orlovsky asks, "Does this look good on me?" That is even a better reason to NOT reveal the truth... I know it does with Mrs. Malruhn...

Unless you are a proponent of getting rid of all secrets. I believe that Orwell wrote a book about that... called "1984" or something like that...

Obviously not ALL secrets in an open society such as the U.S. are a bad thing. Like say the FBI getting ready to break down the unibombers door and take his behind to jail, of course that should be secret. Thats pretty much common sense I think we can both agree.
But we are talking about a group of powerful men who often turn up as CEO's, presidents of the United States, vice presidents, directors of the CIA, and countless other very important government positions, who meet in dungeons dressed in black robes and call themselves "the order of death", or who meet once a year deep in California forests to sacrifice a human child effigy to "Molech". They also do the whole cremation of care thing which is a ritual about not having a conscience. Sorry but these kinds of secrets don't belong in this country.

So... you're supposed to be, what, a Rosicrucian?
As in the sect/secret society/joke of the learned from five centuries back?

If you are, maybe you could tell me just who started the Rosicrucian and why. Francis Yates wasn't sure -- and she was a real person /and/ a respected academic.
Why, in general, should we take you at face value -- you have to admit, this is pretty aberrant behavior for someone who claims to be in /multiple/ secret societies.

--Jaylemurph

Secret societies are just a cover for satan worship....tell me whats so secret?

Yeah theres nothing too secret about the satan worship. I guess the secrets I would like to know is what have they been doing to this country and what is their ultimate goal?

Rosencruez, we all know "secret societies" have existed for centuries. What if "religion" itself was created by one form of "secret society" to efficiently control and manipulate people.

I respect everyones faith and im not aiming this as an insult to anyones faith either, just my opinion.

The Vatican has been widely been established as a corrupt organization. You also have the KKK who killed many innocent African Americans in its time. You have the mafia which has been proven to have worked in conjunction with the vatican. You have the CIA, FBI, NSA, MOSSAD, MI6 and other secret organizations which have a proven track record for terror, drugs trafficking and other criminal intentions. These are all forms of secret societies.

All i believe is that what we see is just like a movie. We can not see the true perpetrators, the decision makers, the ones with the power to control the Government and thus control the people.

Zoo York

Nice sweeping generalization, Unlimited.

Hey, Dan Orlovsky, if you read the first post in the thread, you may learn something... something about the start of the United States...

Nope. I was already aware of the freemason influence at the very start of the country.

Wait...wait...wait. Hold up!

If Freemasons and Rosicrucians are secret societies then why is it that they are listed in the phone book? Not very secret, aye?
How about the Order of the Skull & Bones? Now, THAT'S a secret society, but even they aren't so secret anymore, but you still won't find them listed in the yellow pages. Question: If everyone knows, is it still a secret?

Even the Masons supposedly secret rituals can be found online if you look hard enough, and believe me, those rituals probably seem blase' to most people considering how short attention spans are. Seems to me they are a society with "secrets", not a secret society since they are very well out in the open. Ain't you ever been to a parade? Those dudes wearin' those goofy fezzes and driving those funny little go-carts are [GASP!] Freemasons. Yup, they're called Shriners, and guess what? They are all [more GASP!] 33rd degree Masons. Anyone who is a 33rd degree Mason can be a Shriner, but that doesn't mean that all 33 degree Masons are Shriners. Get it? Good.

Masons are nice guys. I've met quite a few and gosh darn it, some of 'em were actually kinda nerdy. If you really want to know more about Freemasons and why they've gotten to be as controversial as they are I HIGHLY recommend this-- http://www.amazon.com/Pilgrims-Path-Freema...8164&sr=8-1

Now can we all just lay-off this whole Stonecutters-gonna-take-over-the-world-to-bring-forth-Elvis's-alien-lovechild delusional mumbo jumbo? Jeez...

mexicajun, thanks for the vote of confidence, but I have to correct you. The Scottish Rite makes you a 32nd degree Freemason, and the Shrine does NOT confer a regular degre. You are not a 33rd degree Freemason just for becoming a Shriner. There are still very few 33rds in the world... I personally know four - out of over 1000 Shriners that I've met. All four were Shriners, and three of them had gone through the Scottish Rite, with only one going through the York Rite and being a Knight Templar before entering the Shrine.

Just trying to keep good info flowing.

BTW, thanks for the linky for the book. It's the only one by Robinson that I don't have... and didn't know that even existed. Thanks!! I can't wait for it to get here.

(Edited because I had a brain fart. Sorry!)

This whole thread and not a mention of the Bilderberg Group?

Look them up. If you need to fear any secret group, it's them. The rest don't worry me a bit.

Why? What have the Bilderbergers done to arouse suspicion, other than being really white and being really rich?

--Jaylemurph

The richest and most influential people in the world meeting secretly? That's just suspicion. Our government officials meeting with other government officials likely influencing governmental policy, therefore likely violating the (US) Logan Act. That's illegal. We've had this one before Jaylemurph.

...and I'll remind you that our justice system is based on the premise of "innocent until proven guilty".
Keep an eye on them? Maybe. Accuse them directly, or indirectly (as you seem to do)? ...Not until we get some evidence of malfeasance.

--Jaylemurph

or at least ask some questions about them. Like, what the hell do you guys talk about in there?

But why would we keep an eye on them if we trust them completely, or are you indirectly accusing them as well? The only thing I've proposed on these pages is they be audited, and last time we discussed this you agreed there was likely policy being discussed IIRC. I have brought them up on a few threads, and plan on continuing to do so, the reason is shown clearly right here in this thread - people are not even aware the group exists yet it could potentially be the strongest international group outside of the UN.

what are secret societys besides satan worshippers?...whats so secret?

The laughable aspect of your presentation is that you fail to take into account the "say it, pass it down" effect to the organization structures. Take a bunch of children, say 30 to 40. Start with a phrase, "The Red bird in the sky slumped and fell to ground.", and when you get to the other side, the final child says something like, "The redder blob is the one that bumps into trees when it is skying."

At the end of the day, very few if any of these organizations at a mass level have members even remotely clued into the early game in play. It is an excuse for supremacist minded people to feel good about being supremacists. Fact is, take them out of the realm and force them into a discussion and most of them are as children pretending to be Caesar...with no foundational skills save for "I am Initiated and you are swine."

Of course, this is the negative aspect of it - and it is where the real power structures are centered. If this were not so, the organizational structures of these institutions would be strong enough to preserve their cultures and societies from foreign influence.

It is obvious that these operations are so corrupted as to be absurd from an enlightenment perspective.

Dear Frater -

PRIEST = 16+18+9+5+19+20 = 87 = 9+14+9+20+9+1+20+5 = INITIATE

There is nothing more nauseating than to hear "initiates" speak about some presumed superior path to a "truth" when the "truth" is plainly visible and already crafted and available to anyone. How about you give us ONE EXAMPLE of a particular "truth", and lets see if your education is remotely linked to anything other than your desire to chase after your own self styled covert supremacy?

Based on what authority are you permitted to be making such an open ended and blanket statement? Who are you to make such sweeping assertions? Is this part of the cult of supremacy ingrained in your initiation process?

And you will still need to divulge a basic truth to win any points for your presentation.

i agree 100%

Thanks. I travel around the world and know quite a few pretty high level people who are Masons, former Masons, Knights of Malta, etc. I have sat in meetings in Asia where there was open discussion of a desire to bring various elements together in a coup d'etat. That is hardly what one can call as "benign gathering". And the group involved were all business elites affiliated with cross sectional (Kiwanis/Masons/Rotary) initiatory systems.

The naive and childish attitude that some people have towards their craft is almost insane and bizarre - a childish naivite that promotes ignorance and mass control and manipulation of the larger organisational structure. At the end of the day, there are business interests too at stake, and to think that some within these groups will not or would not consider conspiring to advance their interests over others, regardless of the pain and suffering, is naive.

Their attitude can justify the pain and suffering in their "illuminatus" supremacist "guiding humanity" mentality.

The problem is - good people tend to think good and do not wish to see the evil lurking in their midst. There is always this desire to believe in Santa Claus, no matter the age group.

"It's true. Secret societies --- the main ones you hear about --- are most often good for the progress of humanity...."

With all due respect - it's odd to me that you would point out the word 'secret' with the word 'progress'...? That would imply that the rest of us 'out of the know' are not intelligent enough to be included in on whatever 'secret progress' that these societies would be making for us?

I think back in the day, there might have been good reason for some folks to think for others, less educated, with less resources, in a world where information did flow from the mouths up top to the ears down below... but TODAY, in 2007 ... in the age of information technology and free libraries...

I'm of the opinion that anything labeled 'secret' implies the rest of us are unable, still, to formulate opinions and actions based on our own observations, ideas, etc....

Little outdated thinking... I personally think. It's my opinion that we've all 'grown up' a bit since the Founding Fathers...?

oops - sorry, i pressed post before I was ready. I guess my question would be... what issues could 'they' possibly be talking about and discussing in today's world that would not be 'information for the public'? If the secret stuff is still in practice, then it might not be such a suprise that the public insists to investigate - and so therefore we have forums for Conspiracies & Secret Societies?

For example... I'm pretty much the average Joe. Work, pay taxes, raise kids, etc, etc... I do think and read and vote and watch news and etc... I do have conversation on world affairs with friends who are of equal and some of more education then myself... Some of us are scientists, technicians, teachers, doctors... some of us are even governement folks who assist with societal functions...

What information and topics do you, as a memeber of these societies, think can't be shared with folks like us? That sould benefit us? Thanks for letting me pose the question.

I agree with the people who post above, that it's the secretive nature of some organizations that claim to offer ennobling information for mankind, that seems to automatically mark such organizations as false. Mankind isn't something that can be divided into subsets--information, if valuable, should be made available to all, and only by being open to all, to the light of day, can it be subject to examination which will determine if it's really what it says it is--of value. Certainly, there have been (and continue to be) groups that have beliefs, or even actual valuable knowledge, that "the powers that be" (or anyone with any amount of power, or just the ability to harass) haven't liked, and so these groups have had to hide their knowledge for a more opportune time, but I don't think groups like the Freemasons, etc. qualify for this consideration, at least not any longer, if they really wish to put their money where their mouth is.

It's true that any people who share certain beliefs, including groups that genuinely wish to better mankind, can be an easy target for anyone who doesn't like them, if they're totally in the open, as has been proven throughout history as various groups have fought for superiority, and I think this is what Rosencruez is suggesting.

But many secret societies (whether truly secret or not) are more about wielding power, however widely or locally they can manage, than about enlightenment. The enlightenment they claim to offer, even if genuinely partly enlightening (mixing truths with lies is an ancient technique), is just as much (and sometimes only) designed to gain adherents and slaves, and serve as a distraction for the masses, like a magic trick has diversionary moves, to keep the masses busy looking in another direction while the magician/priest rips people off. It goes back to the first holy men, shamans, etc., determined to carve out a position of supposed value to get people to bring them food, women, free housing, admire them, do what they said, etc.

There may be some value in some ritual--heck, we're largely a symbolic species, and without some useful symbolism, life might be unrealistically gray--but some groups have so many rituals, that they're obviously bogus in many ways, even if they don't know it. The ritualism of some groups resembles what would develop if a person were always on some type of psychoactive drug all the time--it can make life richer, but it too often devolves into things that aren't genuine, are irrelevant, etc.

Some secret societies genuinely offer (though some only think they offer) something of value to people, but they have much of the same characteristics as the societies that purposely set out to fool people: they stick to certain rituals, certain belief structures, etc., instead of branching out and becoming more universal, allowing their beliefs to merge with other beliefs, go to the next stage, etc. Some may think they're more universal, but they're not. They're self-referential. In a sense, some of these may be better than nothing--better than not following any particular path to knowledge--but learning from people (both near--family members, community, etc.--and far) who you've made sure aren't associated with any of these groups (or at least might once have been, but having learned what was worth learning, moved on), may be a better approach than becoming a soldier for some single organization's set of beliefs.

Any group that has precepts which claim to be about how to live one's life, which it also feels the need to keep secret and to reveal only to acolytes and members, is false. It's tribalistic, the manufacture of "others", the "outsider". It's for low-level fools, to stoke their ego. Another element of the con game. And groups that threaten pain of death for revelation of "secrets" that supposedly ennoble people--well, that's one of the biggest contradictions there is. Free and open enquiry easily shows how much a house of cards much of the "beliefs" of the secret-keepers, the occultists, etc. really is. We're also dealing with abnormal psychology in many cases--the type that puts up barriers since they know "the outside world wouldn't understand". The "outside world" may just have something valuable to say.