as ive stated before, im a believer

but

i must say i am slightly annoyed and dismayed at the lack of 'deathbed' confessions

the supposed cover-up has been going on now for almost 60 years

and it seems it should by now involve several hundred people over the years

seems to me atleast a dozen of those people would have come forward by now in some form or the other

seems concience or stress of keeping the secret would make some spill thier guts

even seems to me the gov would hire a few whistle blowers

i think if given the chance to see the inside i would then come forward, or try to

damn the consequences

Good point. One of the many reasons I am a skeptic.

Maybe said people agree with the cover up?
The aliens themselves want to remain covert to the general population.
They seem to be the one's calling the shots.

Is that right?? Wow. You must have some incredible connections to be able to know what supposed alines want with the earth.Woo Woo.

Hold on, what are they covering up?

this is an excellent post ets daddy. man, i wish someone would make the internet connectable to the human brain so i didnt have to wait all these years to hear such good points on subjects im interested in! when you had the thought i too could have dl'ed it right on the spot ! lol that is whats so wonderful about technology, it allows us to network more efficiently. in this instance, i have never had that thought that you had. and it is a very important observation that you have made.

now that im aware of this point, i must say, that it leads to me believe even more that the government, or those in charge, know about as much about the ufo phenomena as anyone else really does . sure, maybe they have more anectdotal evidence than the common investigators of ufos, but in the end, they are just as clueless as everyone else. no one may ever know what ufos are.........(phillip klass may have been right, even though believers may not want to face that very possible reality)

One of many such deathbed confessions: http://www.ufocasebook.com/hull.html

You really want to believe don't you.

once again i must thank technology for allowing us to network i must say, if that is true phrophecy guru, then that does indeed add a new wrinkle into this whole "ufo" and/or "alien" affair. hmm....thnx for the information prophecy guru. and btw, prophecy guru, you have a lot of knowledge and information on this whole subject , are you an investigator of the subject affiated with some group, or are you free lance?

Typical skeptic response. Skeptics already come to their conclusion before even investigting any of the provided information. UFO's and Extraterrestrial contact, for that very reason, is the easiest secret to keep because it is so unbelievable.

No, I am not with any particular group, not at this point in time anyway. All my research has accumulated by personal interest in the topic. I have researched the subject extensively for as long as I can remember. I was once just an interested skeptic who assumed that eventhough it is such an amazing and fascinating idea it just unfortunatly couldn't be true, or could it? After years of personal research I am convinced that this phenomenon is very real, however the truth is overshadowed by the countless number of hoax's and disinformation which is why this subject is unfortunatly overlooked by mainstream science.

Clark C. McClelland has something to say about this, in one respect.

To paraphrase from his website-

Clark McClelland, since1958, at Cape Canaveral, helped launch 622 rockets, was an Aerospace Engineer and Technical Assistant to the Apollo Program Manager during the Apollo moon landings, did extensive technical checkout of simulated flights and mission objectives of the various shuttles to assure orbital success and the personal safety of the astronauts...

In 1960, Major Donald E Keyhoe, the International Director of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP) selected McClelland to be Director for the Kennedy Space Center and central Florida region. His unit members included two NASA Astronaut Flight Surgeons, many engineers, scientists and mathematicians as consultants and investigators. Later, he was chosen as the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) Director at the KSC and served concurrently as Assistant State Director for Florida (which got him fired from NASA, he states).

His name is presently listed on two large monuments adjacent to the space center, commemorating the Mercury and Gemini Missions and honoring those who significantly contributed to the various projects at KSC. His name will be included on the Apollo, Space Shuttle and Space Station monuments as they are completed over the next few years...


More on alien corpses-

Story Regarding McClellan AFB

i c, i too started out the same way, and i have come to the conclusion that "they" probably do exist. i try not to get to involved in anything other than very credible ufo sightings, and ce2-3's, and see ce-4's and abductions as very interesting. however, with all the nonsense involved in this subject, i think anyone that really wants to know the truth needs to be skeptical to a degree. i agree with you prophecy guru. and i must admit, you've definetly done your research

Some people want to believe, while the others want to disclaim it. Its a debate on two sides, the government and the civilian public. Thing is, noone knows what the next step will be. Court hearings for the truth, the truth from an invasion or just the government opening up. It's very questionable.

Yeah, I have a magazine article I got out of the National Examiner which also explains one of his accounts and I also have print outs from various different sources on the McClelland account and his relations with doomed Challenger Astronaut Ellison Onizuka. Such accounts coming from astronauts are very intriguing to me. McClelland is not the only one that has come forward with such accounts. There have been many astronauts, cosmonauts etc. that have come forth with similar claims.

Astronauts Tell The Truth

Yes, I guess you could say my connections are pretty damn good.
I suppose it didn't occur to you that the 'real mccoy' would trigger off a few of your precious woo woo'?
Nah.. didn't think so.

I assume the opposite doesn't apply to you... You have a very neutral and objective tone to your posts

You really want to disbelieve don't you?

I have neither seen a living or dead alien or government coverup of such. I doubt I have seen a UFO beyond looking up and seeing an airplane I didn't know the name of.

With this being said do I discount that there are lifeforms out there other then humans here on earth? No I don't discount it at all. Unfortunatly I think I would have to see, touch, smell, poke, and prod an alledged alien before I might truely believe.

The link to the deathbed confession though was rather interesting though.

Before he died Jessie Marcell gave an interview and stated that the debris that was shown to the press was not the same as what he found on that fateful day in Roswell !!!!
His children believe that an Alien disc was retrieved that day and they are sure they're dad was involved......When someone belonging to you dies do you have the worlds press there waiting to see what they say ?
Or do you keep as a dignified private thing ? Who knows how many have fessed up what they know......Werner Von Braun also dropped some heavy hints before he shuttled off the mortal coil,He said that all kinds of excuses would be used to weaponise space including terrorism,defence, etc but that these werent the real reasons......I think there are plenty of DB fesses out there if we look hard enough !!!!!

i guess uim looking for more of a 'holy grail' type confession

at a presidential level, or close to it

or even a story we havent heard before, not just someone confirming what we have already heard

like Jesse Marcel

i dont need to hear he said the pic was doctored from his death bed

i knew it was already

maybe fresh evidence would be nice

maybe someone from area 51 can give us more insight, maybe from Wright Patterson

i have inside information on this one but cannot share the source...the u.s. govt doesnt work with aliens ; anymore. their was a fallout between the aliens and scientists at dulce and area 51 the aliens were all killed. the u.s. govt doesnt trust these aliens as they have an agenda.they learned what they could from them and now its over.

sorry but no one will buy that without a source

and what does it have to do with a death bed confession ?

I think he was joking. Probably just wants the argument to end.

i wasnt joking no source because its true i forgot this is um skeptics vs believers...sorry i'll refrain from telling you secrets. it has nothing to do with deathbed confessions i admit e.t.s daddy but theres nothing to tell aliens dont exist anymore.

Well if you have any good sources about Dulce that you can show then I would like to see them. I am currently researching that particular story but from what I have read all the sources of information claim that it was just a minor set back and only a few ET's were actually killed. When the truth was evident that humans were being produced from abducted females, impregnated against there will, a secret resistance group formed. This did little though, over time they were assassinated or "died under mysterious circumstances". It is also said there are allegedly over 18,000 "aliens" at the Dulce complex. In late 1979, there was a confrontation, primarily over weaponry and the majority of human scientists and military personnel were killed. The facility was closed for a while, but is currently active. "A clash occurred where in 66 people, of our people, from the National Recon Group, the DELTA group, which is responsible for security of all alien connected projects, were killed."

The Dulce story does sound interesting and somewhat credible from a number of different aspects but I am interested to know what you claim to know for a fact considering your claim already has inconsitencies with the main story whether fact or fiction. There are a few fatal flaws in the story that could possibly be attributed to disinformation or simply an elaborate hoax. So what is it that you claim to know for a fact about this supposed underground facility?

I am limited as to what i can say . I should have never brought unsubstantiated facts into the debate. i apologize...PG your story is close to the truth.

doesnt it seem someone actually living in the Dulce area would know one way or the other ?

I have found that the majority of the people in the area of the supposed underground facility do believe and often see objects come out of the near by lake and mountainous area.

You all forget what Roswell was in 1947. It was the only military base on earth that had military trained to drop A-bombs. These men weren't just chosen for their skills as airmen but also for their ability to keep and preserve secrets. It was mandatory. That's why there aren't more deathbed confessions.

Somebody very close to my heart was stationed in New Mexico in 1947. That's all I knew for sure. One day (around the time they put that iffy alien autopsy movie out), I thought to ask him about Roswell as I knew he had been part of the 509th and involved in atomic testing for a long time. He told me that he wasn't stationed there but that he had heard stories. That he had gone out for drinks with some people from Roswell, who were very upset about something going on there and that it was very strange. Then, he would say nothing more on the subject.

Several years later, what he said still bothered me but I didn't want to ask him again because discussing it made him obviously uncomfortable. I asked his wife where they were stationed when they were in New Mexico in 1947. She said that they were at Roswell. I checked his service record and, although there are no locations listed until 1957, it lists him as being an "Intel Off" and a 1st Lt in the period of 1947.

Why would a person who loves me so much lie to me about where he was in 1947? Let alone not tell me that he was an intelligence officer at the time. I can't help but wonder who it was that he went to a bar because they were so upset. The sad thing is, I love him and if he wants to die not telling, that's his choice. I will not state his name and rank publicly because he was a career officer and heavily decorated. He said what little he felt that he could when he could've easily just said that nothing happened at all. He lied to me, yes, but obviously for a good reason and I respect that. It's his life, not mine.

I hope that this gives some insight into why there aren't hundreds of deathbed confessions. These men were supposed to keep secrets and were selected to do so, even if it meant lying to their loved ones.

you tell a tale of one person that will not confide in you

thats all well and good

but to me it doesnt explain thousands

take area 51 for example

been there for over 60 years

and yet it seems no widely deemed credible witnesses have come forward to date

just seems odd to me

say aliens and or thier tech. have been there for about 50 years

there must have been well over 500 people that have worked there

not one of them went home and said "OMG, you wont believe what i saw today" ?

and that hasnt snowballed into something larger ?

just seems odd to me

compartmentilization. you only know a little bit of the puzzle and everythings on a need too know basis . you could pull it off. only the head guys know the truth sworn to secrecy. this could go on for ever thats why all the info you can get is blacked out its all neat.

i believe compart. helps and hurts

yes very few know the whole picture

but so many more know bits and pieces

could take only 5 people if they all know the whole story

could take 15 if they all only know scraps

just means more available to tell something to me

This is a nice scrap.

In 1987, comedian-actor Jackie Gleason died at his home in Fort
Lauderdale, Fla., at age 71. Gleason had one of the greatest UFO
book collections in the world. A story circulated by Gleason's
ex-wife, Beverly, had Gleason actually viewing the bodies of
several aliens who died when their craft crashed in the
Southwest. Gleason named his Peekskill, New York, home "The
Mothership" and had architects build everything in the round to
resemble a flying saucer.

You don't know who this man is and what his relationship is to me. I don't think you can comment on our relationship if you have no clue what it is.



Actually, there are others whose loved ones were stationed at Roswell that heard interesting comments about it with no divulging as well. Thousands though? How many people do you actually think saw anything at Roswell?




We're talking about Roswell and you want to talk about Area 51? Two different places, last I checked.



Not sure if you're talking area 51 or Roswell but since Roswell is the topic, I'll assume that one. Obviously some did...like Jesse Marcel. Alot of negative things get said about the man but, honestly, you should see how much is missing from my grandfather's AF-11. I would bet most didn't because they couldn't even tell about daily occurrences at the base.




I would agree that it is odd. For the record, I'm not sold on either the "aliens crashed" theory or the weather balloon. All I know is what was told to me by somebody whom I trust implicitly. He didn't say UFO and he didn't say it wasn't. He said something strange and upsetting happened there. That's all I know and probably will ever know because I know what it's like to have a loved one who has been privvy to alot of classified information. It's just another aspect of the puzzle and something to consider.

[quote name='battleangel' date='Feb 6 2006, 07:14 PM' post='1051348']
You don't know who this man is and what his relationship is to me. I don't think you can comment on our relationship if you have no clue what it is.
[/quote]

i dont rember commenting on your relationship

i said you told a tale of 1 person that wouldnt confide in you

and you did

and they wouldnt, according to your own tale

[quote]
We're talking about Roswell and you want to talk about Area 51? Two different places, last I checked.
[/quote]

actually, we're talking about death bed confessions

so people working at area 51 counts

[/quote]

[quote]
Not sure if you're talking area 51 or Roswell but since Roswell is the topic, I'll assume that one. Obviously some did...like Jesse Marcel. Alot of negative things get said about the man but, honestly, you should see how much is missing from my grandfather's AF-11. I would bet most didn't because they couldn't even tell about daily occurrences at the base.
I would agree that it is odd. For the record, I'm not sold on either the "aliens crashed" theory or the weather balloon. All I know is what was told to me by somebody whom I trust implicitly. He didn't say UFO and he didn't say it wasn't. He said something strange and upsetting happened there. That's all I know and probably will ever know because I know what it's like to have a loved one who has been privvy to alot of classified information. It's just another aspect of the puzzle and something to consider.
[/quote]

actually i was referring to area 51

between scientists, guards, and everyone else i bet 100's of people have worked there in the past 60 years

surprises me none credible seem to have come forward

even under ridicule and penalty of death, if it involved aliens i would come forward

I used to love watching him with my dad and mom on TV ages ago!

I found more about Jackie Gleason regarding UFO stuff here.. Also talks about President Nixon in it as well. (interesting read!)

http://paul.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/ufo/jackie-gleason

Thanks for the clarification. Actually, from my point of view, he did confide in me--just without detail. Like I said, he could've simply told me that nothing happened and it was just a weather balloon. He didn't. Instead, he spoke in vague terms about something happening there that was both "upsetting" and "strange". Not confiding would've been saying "I wasn't at Roswell and I don't know anything". Got it?

I don't know much (or care much to be honest lol) about Area 51. Roswell is what intrigues me and simply because of what I was told and lied to about. This interest isn't so much as whether or not an UFO crashed there but a purely personal interest because why this man, of all people, would lie to me, leaves a constant question mark. I'm even planning on going to Roswell itself next summer to try to resolve it, though I doubt it will ever be resolved. I'd ask him again and tell him that I know he fibbed but he only has a couple years left on this earth. Would be bad timing to traipse in an area that he doesn't want to talk about.

How does compartmentalizing hurt anything? What you're failing to realize here is that keeping secrets is part of national security. Keeping people alive. Keeping things safer. You're expecting people to leak information to you? That's hilarious.

Let's say for example, there are aliens at Area 51, and they're lending their expertise to scientists and engineers to build better, more advanced aircraft, etc... One of the people on the project knows what the material/coating on the plane is that gives it stealth, which, if told to an enemy, for example, would give them the ability to figure out how to "see" it in flight. This means the pilot of that aircraft would be in more danger of dying in time of war if said aircraft were to be used.

There's a possibility aliens exist. There's a possibility the governments keep their existence classified (if they do in fact exist, and the governments have any know about it). If that's a case, there's a GOOD reason for why there would be a coverup, whether it be national security, threat to life, or a huge wave of hysteria and panic.

If I were on my deathbed, and I had the opportunity to make up something just to screw around, I'd do it. Now that I think about it, I probably will.

If aliens do in fact exist, one of the biggest problems is going to be people's inability to accept it, probably because of religious beliefs. Think of what would happen to this planet if world leaders decided to say "Yes, there are aliens, they're pissed."

It sickens me that people want information so badly about something that might not even exist. Some go as far as demanding it, without even understanding it's implications.


If you were to be given 100% solid PROOF tomorrow that aliens didn't exist, how would that make you feel? Personally, I think it's a hell of a lot more fun and interesting to NOT KNOW. Not knowing fuels a lot of imagination and some interesting debates.

how can compart. be bad ?

how about this

you work on this weapons system we got from aliens

you work on this guidence system we got from aliens

you work on this power supply we got from aliens

you work on this cloaking system we got from aliens

you work on this comm system we got from aliens

there are 5 teams working on things that could be done by 1 team

i know you will say the gov wouldnt tell them all it came from aliens

but maybe they would

we just dont know

my point was compart. just involves more people

more chance for a leak to get out

believe its a chance like i do, or not, i dont care

youre not in the situation and neither am i

Yes more people, each with a small piece of the puzzle.

If one person knew the whole picture, and was captured/kidnapped, etc... and tortured to get classified information, well, you've got yourself a NASTY security problem.

If you have 5 teams, each team having 30 people, there's 150 who each have a small fragment. For example, if one member of a team that was in charge of communications worked on en encryption device, and another worked on wiring, and another worked on software, and none of them knew the other guy's job, then how much damage to national security could that cause if they were to talk? Virtually none. When you work in a compartment, each compartment has it's own specialty areas. You could LITERALLY have 50 people working in the same room, all on the same team, and not one of them knows what the guy next to him does, let alone how to do his job, or explain it even if he saw it.

The more people you have, YES, the more chance you have of someone talking. But out of 150 people, even if 10% of them talked, there would still be virtually no risk to security, because you still don't have anywhere near a clear picture of the whole.

And as far as the "situation" goes, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. If you're referring to compartmentalization, I AM in the situation because I am in the Air Force, and I do have a security clearance and understand why it's set up the way it is. The government isn't a bunch of retards that set up the whole process with all these standards for no reason without coming to a logical conclusion about which would work better first.

Here is something I found very interesting but it is extremely long (65 pages) and will most likely take a few days to read depending on the amount of free time and interest/patience you have. I discovered the document on http://www.majesticdocuments.com

http://209.132.68.98/pdf/crain_clarksoninterview.pdf
"The 65-page transcript begins with a preface by Jim Clarkson describing how he came to meet June, interview her, and gain her trust. Next is a 3-page summary cross-indexing June's firsthand story with the Majestic Documents book. The remainder is all transcript. The highlights are breathtaking: handling unusual metal parts of the flying saucer, taking dictation from Werner Von Braun, mentions three UFO crashes, and a Top Secret Q clearance. Once she and many others were asked to sign a "TOO HOT" memo because of a careless Master Sergeant announcing he had just flown in from New Mexico with alien bodies and wreckage. The style, demeanor, and voice inflections — although not captured in the textual transcript — indicate sincerity and authenticity."

"June was angry because of what she perceived as a great hypocrisy, that on the one hand the existence of UFO's is officially denied, and yet in classified labratories where she worked, she overheard scientists and engineers discussing artifacts and bodies from recovered, crashed UFO's. She believed that the public deserves to be told the truth."

"What is important about June Crain's story? First, her government service file proves that she did work in various facilities at Wright-Patterson AFB where classified research was conducted and that she did handle sensitive material as part of her duties. Second, she did not publicize her experiences for money or recognition."

This deals with Roswell as well as a form of "death bed confession" so to speak (et's daddy)
I posted this in both threads because of the fact that it pertains to both of the given topics.

June Crain's Official Documents and Records can be found here: http://209.132.68.98/pdf/crain_officialdocs.pdf

"Included is June Crain's "conveyance of rights to life story" to Sergeant Jim Clarkson along with his notarized affidavit of authenticity. The historical documents about June include War Department Notifications of Personnel Action for Wright Field Ohio, Efficiency Ratings, and detailed Position Descriptions. These documents are on original paper in the correct format. The documents clearly show that June worked at Headquarters Air Materiel Command (AMC), Area A, Supply Division Equipment Section, Materials Branch, photographic unit in 1948."

Here is another document pertaining to both Roswell and death bed confessions. The document also relates to the death bed confession I provided earlier (in "deathbed confessions" thread) by Cordell Hull:

http://209.132.68.98/pdf/revholt-iur2000.pdf
"Reverand Turner H. Holt – Further evidence has surfaced to support the notion that the UFO crash at Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947 was not the first. We have obtained substantial documentation and witness testimony relating to the crash and recovery of a UFO and alien bodies at Cape Girardeau, Missouri, in 1941 that is already posted to the website. In addition to this, we are including here an article that appeared in the Winter 2001-2002, Volume 26, Number 4 edition of the International UFO Reporter magazine that deals with a pre-Roswell event that occurred in the time frame of the Missouri crash. The article concerns an account related by the Reverend Turner Hamilton Holt who told his family that he had been shown by Cordell Hull (President Franklin Roosevelt’s Secretary of State) the remains of four strange bodies preserved in "glass jars" in a basement of the Capitol Building, Washington, D.C. The article, by William E. Jones of the Mutual UFO Network and Eloise G. Watson, reveals a wealth of information on Holt’s story, additional testimony from his family, and important information on Cordell Hull’s files."