I have heard this debate several times that games like D&D where dangerous for a persons spiritual salvation. As someone who has played RP games, I enjoy it more as a hobby and it hasn't consumed my every being.

Those are my beliefs.

If a game destroys your belief your belief was on shaky ground to begin with. Your beliefs are your choice you are the only one who changes them. The whole idea a game can make you worship the devil is absurd.

This is one of the silliest things I've ever heard. But, I've heard it since I played DnD back in the good ol' days. This was set up because in the 70's- early 90's teenagers that had nothing better to do played hours of it a day. Hell, I was one of those teenagers. My soul is still perfectly intact. DnD and RPG's probably help you more than they hurt. It takes skill, knowledge, and strategy to play most RPG's.

For some reason, some Christian people have trouble with fantasy - dragons, elves and the like. (One told me recently I was abandoning god because the novel I'm writing has dragons in it) I've heard it be told that some also have trouble with people pretending to be something they are not. (I guess they don't watch movies or TV at all).

Role-playing games are a healthy outlet for creativity and an intelligent way to spend an afternoon. Those wackaloon kids who go on rampages with their plus three magic sword in the school yard were wackaloons before they ever sat down with a character sheet.

There is nothing wrong with RPGs. I love RPGs. . My favorite video game Genre.


I'm actualy working on my own RPG right now via RPG Maker XP.

A game is a game!

Darkwind got it right.

First there was nothing

Then the gods created everything to inhabit the void, and there was life

Then the gods made beings, called human, that looked just like them. To inhabit the creation and be as gods themselves. warring and at peace so as to please the watcher gods that made them to be so.

Then the god's got upset and wiped the game board clean of everyone and everything except one pair of players, so the game could start again.

And it did.

And the game took weird turns again, like before only different. So the gods decided to install an extra credit bonus play on the board. Up ahead, at the fork on the way. Choose the right path and a player is saved.

Each player of the game is presented to the board as their own embodiment of the game piece.
If the game is played well, the player finds their peace and eternal rewards. But if they fail, they lose and fall to the bottom of the board, the pit, and their game piece is destroyed.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some role playing games have been played for centuries.

If someone wants to live their lives invested in giving credence to elves, dragons and mages, so be it. I can't judge that choice of their life. However I will say, I've not yet to witness a gnome petition the king to make a law against love, as I have right wing fundamentalists petition congress to amend the Constitution in the name of bigotry.

That being said, I've seen what we've done with what we have to work with. Therefore, I can't help but think a little imagination could be a good thing!

Nothing much to said that was already said. Just propaganda from wacky extremist like Chick and company.

Be careful.... them elves spread word of the devil

Harry Potter is also evil. So is Lord of the Rings.

Ok, the above are jokes, I love both LOTR and Harry Potter I guess there are some who think these are evil, but it is the minority, in my humble opinion. Suffice it to say, I have never met a Christian who is against them.

In my opinion, role playing games like AD&D promote imagination and intelligence, hardly evil qualities.

Err, we're not actually talking primarily about RPG computer games

Regards, PA

I know, RPGs in general. D&D, etc... I was only talking about the games I liked =D

If anything remotely resembles devil-worship or blasphemey, then many Christians attack it. The movie Monty Python's Life of Brian revolved around the idea of thinking for yourself, yet many pastors of churches pushed to have it banned here in the U.S. without having even watched it once through.

The idea that Role Playing Games such as Dungeons & Dragons steals souls is an outrageous claim. In fact, those who claim these things can be described as one of the following:

-Someone who has never played a game like "D&D" before and automatically assumes evil based on prejudice, righteous assumptions, and propaganda.

-Someone who has played the game for 5-minutes but goes into the game with such hateful thoughts and prejudice that they remain true to the belief that it is Satan.

Both of these people will continue on to preach against the games. Click here for a good example.

[Note: I apologize if the link offends anyone who shares it's beliefs]

Has picked a new vocabulary word with "wackaloons" very nice. I have an aunt who was opposed to myself and a few friends coming over and roleplaying with her son, my cousin. She did it in a passive aggressive maner saying things like D&D promoted stealing by playing a thief. Or even turning into a pagan for worshiping another god then the one stated in the bible.

As a running joke when I would show up for the gaming session, since I was running it I would usually start off the day by saying. "Ok does everyone have their black robe with hood, goats head and super secret plastic decoder ring? Good" I would pat myself down and say "Oh man I forgot the chalk of pentagram drawing so no spell casting for me today." She either realized that what she was saying overall was absurd or she just decided to keep quiet so as to avoid smart alleck comments by me.

QUOTE(Byuu94 @ Feb 7 2006, 05:53 AM) [snapback]1051750[/snapback]

If anything remotely resembles devil-worship or blasphemey, then many Christians attack it. The movie Monty Python's Life of Brian revolved around the idea of thinking for yourself, yet many pastors of churches pushed to have it banned here in the U.S. without having even watched it once through.

Wasn't there a U.S. film release not too many years ago, featuring androids or some such, and at it's premier there were protesters, claiming the film exploited artificial life!?

I remember something like that getting air time on one of those Hollywood reporter type shows. Anytime something different is exposed to the apathetic public, there is inevitably protest at the invasiveness of this "new" thing, interfering with what most people are comfortable with.

I loved "Life of Brian" BTW. I also remember "The Last Temptation of Christ" movie being condemned by the Vatican. (One of many titles to receive such a judgment).
Thing is, if one's faith can be tested by a role playing game one's faith is weak in the first place. Or perhaps they're just bored and like to switch up to a little imagination. Dragons in place of prophets, Trolls usurp Pharisees, stuff like that.

I think the movie about the androids was A.I. . Early on in Tom Hanks career he made a movie on the very subject. He played who with 2 of his friends played a RP game. I think it even turned into a L.A.R.P. (live action role play) where Toms character got so involved in his RP character he became that person. Honestly can't remember the name of the film but it was fairly decent if cliched.

I RP, DnD and World of Darkness....and I'm perfectly normal, I also have an active social life in addition to my "gaming", sure I pray to a few minor devils in-game, but I've also killed a few as well.

*rolls a natural twenty on her to hit score, and goes on to inflict a critical hit on the naysayers*

I do rather a lot of RPing...play-by-post forums and e-feds, and D&D in the old days. I've often been tempted to go larping, if only because I like the idea of hitting people with a big sword in the name of good fun.

Please elaborate on your definition of "many" Christians. All, the majority, about half, some, not many, a few outspoken fundamentalists......

I personally love the Life of Brian, one of my fav's of all time. I love Role Playing games. A lot of good fun. I've even played character's that completely conflict with my worldview ideology. God knows it's a game

For the record, I also remember the movie Dogma getting the workover by some Christian fundamentalists groups, despite the disclaimer at the beginning that it wasn't to be taken seriously I loved that movie too

Regards, PA

Similar thing here Imaginary Friend:

A New Screen Test for Imax: It's the Bible vs. the Volcano

By Cornelia Dean

The fight over evolution has reached the big, big screen.

Several Imax theaters, including some in science museums, are refusing to show movies that mention the subject - or the Big Bang or the geology of the earth - fearing protests from people who object to films that contradict biblical descriptions of the origin of Earth and its creatures.

The number of theaters rejecting such films is small, people in the industry say - perhaps a dozen or fewer, most in the South. But because only a few dozen Imax theaters routinely show science documentaries, the decisions of a few can have a big impact on a film's bottom line - or a producer's decision to make a documentary in the first place.

Source

Wow. I didn't know you were still here, Sera. I though you'd left for good. Many of the older members have. Can't remember the last time I saw Moe.

The Raven, that link is a great example of Evangelical Christian ignorance. I'm throughly enjoying it.

QUOTE(zandore @ Feb 8 2006, 03:03 PM) [snapback]1053374[/snapback]

Similar thing here Imaginary Friend:

A New Screen Test for Imax: It's the Bible vs. the Volcano

By Cornelia Dean

The fight over evolution has reached the big, big screen.

Several Imax theaters, including some in science museums, are refusing to show movies that mention the subject - or the Big Bang or the geology of the earth - fearing protests from people who object to films that contradict biblical descriptions of the origin of Earth and its creatures.

The number of theaters rejecting such films is small, people in the industry say - perhaps a dozen or fewer, most in the South. But because only a few dozen Imax theaters routinely show science documentaries, the decisions of a few can have a big impact on a film's bottom line - or a producer's decision to make a documentary in the first place.

Source

Thank you for that link. I had not read that before.

It's fascinating that people will cite the right to exercise freedom to speak some of the most hateful and ignorant words, and against a;faith, people, lifestyle, Deity, etc... And yet they fail to realize that intolerance incites others to speak back. And on it goes. One persons cause is another's cause to protest it.

In cases like this (and the many others discussed already in our history): Someone fearing to show a movie depicting science , because faith may march against it!? And each side that rallies to defend one side and the other, are at the same time asking to be heard as they tell the other's to shut up, in the name of _______________________< *insert reason du'jour here*

They should make a movie about how the world looks from the eyes of someone who changes everything about their journey through it, to look as they wish it to be. With just a wave of the hand. So easy to make it happen to bring one peace. Another of those subtle analogies as it were.

Course, then one would have to get a budget together to make that movie. Which would entail selling it too investors that want to see it made their way , which is a different way because there are so many with money that think they have a right to say....

I see this whole thing as a metaphor in itself. We're living this movie, and there are script changes, and character flaws, and in the end at that final curtain, we are personally out of the picture, but while some exit stage left, the rest are here on the deck, writing a new story line, fit to print, fit to protest. Action and reaction. "If one does not learn from their history they are condemned to repeat it." They say.

Well, at least we aren't bored re-invigorating that same old conflict drama story, across the centuries. We may be dense, but we're dedicated!!

BTW , I love your font color Zandore. I use the sites dark skin forum option, so font colors appear very subtle and nice in posts and livens things up from the usual default setting.

And yes PA, I loved Dogma too. It's part of our DVD collection in fact.

I can give other examples (like this one) of a religion forcing it's beliefs (censorship) on others.

I am sure there exists a plethora of such links. However to see them all in one place would be a bit of overwhelm to those of us who like to think ourselves optimists of the future.

How can there be a valid and viable future that is beneficial for all if knowledge (of all kind) is supressed?

Who ever makes some easy turn based RPGs for those who love soap operas and murder mysteries will clean up. They could just advertise them on the Lifetime Channel and clean up. It is an ignored market.

But one that exists. If you do not want to play a RPG then do not purchase one.

I do play RPGs.
I am into Echo Night Beyond right now.
The graphics are not as important to me as a good story.
That is what I meant by an ignored market, those into it for mostly the story and most are not about the kinds of stories they love.

Deja Vu updated into a long RPG kind of thing.
Think of all the people who watch soaps that would love that kind of stuff.
I saw lots of women in Babbages getting the Sims. It is kinda sad that that is about all they have to play with.

QUOTE(zandore @ Feb 8 2006, 09:43 PM) [snapback]1053911[/snapback]

How can there be a valid and viable future that is beneficial for all if knowledge (of all kind) is supressed?

Ever read George Orwell's novel; 1984? In order to get it past the censors of Great Britain , Eric Arthur Blair (aka/George Orwell) retitled it 1984, (as opposed to what he originally intended as "1948") as to appear futuristic, rather than indicative of contemporary politics and it's consequent futuristic projection, worst case scenario.

Winston Smith, the title character, is compelling. And all the while the books unfolding, I couldn't help but relate Orwell's fiction to the current state of contemporary American politics. Thought police, ministry of re-education, etc... in Orwell's book, are in many ways reflected in todays policies regarding PC (Political Correctness) and those programs which seek to dispense it's jurisdiction; such as "gender sensitivity training" courses , etc... Behavioral re-education models, if you will, that seek to re-program the individual to the group mind. All projections alive long before the advent of the Clinton administration, Bush, etc... in the pages of Orwell's classic.

Simply said, as in Orwell's model; Controlling the intellect by coraling access to the keys of knowledge, controls the masses prone to dare otherwise think for themselves.

Yes...I am into Sci-fi but did not know about the name change.


If you look at the MAIN STREAM Christian and their history that is what they have been doing for a long time now. Trying to convert others to their religion and sometimes at the point of a sword.

This is actually silly, but sadly, there are people who actually believe what you say in the title.

That's something I didn't know Yet Christian groups are told that their Christmas/Easter (for example) celebrations may offend people not of their faith? (Linky) This world is getting even more hypocritical every day...

Dogma, Life of Brian - ohhh excellent films. Both in my collection

I must admit I've never played D&D, although my four brothers were all avid fans of it. They also used to play another that was similar but I've forgotten the name of it now. The comment that D&D was played by everyone 70s-90s; I can imagine that. Nearly everyone I knew growing up played it for hours. I guess it was that generation's version of the internet (geddit... Role playing... LOL)

And I really had better read 1984... It's one of those books that I've heard so much about yet never had chance to read

Yes it is a rather sad state of affairs, I often equate the early D&D hysteria, with alot of the heavy metal mania as well. In fact many bands amped up their 'satanic' pictures and themes because they knew that certain groups would bring attention to them and thus the kids would spend big $$$$$ on it.

If parents really want to know what their kids are doing then they need to involve themselves much to the displeasure of the kids, in their childrens lives. Listen to their music, watch the movies, play the games, find out why they like them and let them know why you may or may not dissaprove of them...... This afterschool special has been brought to you by.....

Good point NBM

Did you know that these holidays and some others started out Pagan holidays?

Excellent suggestiion Nbm

Yes I did, but I'm leaving out the Pagan/Christian argument so as not to muddy the waters so to speak

I know there are those of us who have taken the time to research and find out these things, but the majority when thinking of Christmas/Easter think Christian. Also, the article deals with the fact that Britain is seen in general as a Christian country.

Well that's what my parents did with me as a kid they took an active roll in what all of us kids liked. We didn't always agree but at least we knew what the boundries where and the reasons behind them. Did I try to scoot around the rules, "Heck Yea!" Though my father is what I would consider a conservitive christian he knows I play RPG's. He hasn't said anything negative to that effect, mostly cause I don't live at his home and I pay my own bills etc so he sees I am not a black robe wearing, drug useing, sacrafice a baby to the devil lunatic because I enjoy such games.

QUOTE(AshKatNah @ Feb 9 2006, 02:58 PM) [snapback]1055088[/snapback]

This is actually silly, but sadly, there are people who actually believe what you say in the title.

No Kidding! OMG! True story; I use to work for a large insurance company in Florida. One day it was announced there would be an office party and everyone was asked if they might consider signing up on the roster to bring something for the buffet. (So as to prevent double menu items like bacon/green bean salad.)

I signed up for double fudge chocolate brownies. I also frost them which makes them incredibly bad for appetites of the waif super-model variety.

Shortly after this I made a comment, as everyone was excited in conversation already about what was to be on the menu; "I signed up to bring dessert. I make some demon brownies, let me tell ya." In other words, everything you don't want in tasty, if you're on a diet.

The party gets underway a few days later. Top to finish not even the saran wrap was touched on my brownies!! No one ate them.

Know why?

Some people I worked with new I was pagan. That spread the word after my "Demon brownie" comment. Consequently, every employee there, (management and staff), actually believed if they removed the saran wrap from the baking dish, much less cut into the brownies, they would release demons into the building!!!


*waits for laughter to die down*


Sadder still?

These people breed!

good point IMag. Fr. My good friend is pagan, i have mentioned 'pagan' to a few people diverse , my gosh I often hear 'devil worshipers" people freak out . I just say it seems you bought into the hype, christianity did a good job of twisting the beleifs killing people (witches) I have always felt there is a innate trauma that is in mankind becasue of the injustices and greed of Christianity. Whats to dislike about Paganism, they revere nature and care for her and respect her and they honor god and goddess very key point, they embrace their sexuality as natural and beautiful and will go to any lengths to understand others and their religions, We have a member here Darkwind who is a shining example of paganism, check out his posts . Namaste Sheri

It's another tool, not inately good or bad in itself, but in how it's used.

I enjoy RPG and always have.

I chose:

When it does that, it could be considered destructive, and that could apply to anything, drugs, sex, money, food... whatever.

The use of food is fine and necessary, the abuse of food... well...

Well Purplos, I wish I was there when that Christian guy told you you were "abandoning God" because you were writing a novel about dragons. I bet that guy is so ignorant about his own religion that he doesn't realize that the Bible used to be filled with dragons, and with a little research one can reconstruct it despite how it has been so extensively edited over the centuries. Dragons in fact, are the highest heavenly servants, the Seraphim, and their names mean in hebrew "fiery winged reptiles". And it is originally an egyptian word that means a terrible monster, and its hieroglyph is a winged dragon, so it cannot be debated at all. In two seperate books of the bible, God rides on the backs of dragons, in Psalms dragons sing praises to him, the creature sent to swallow Jonah and also Moses was a dragon. The Leviathan is a fire spewing dragon as are the creatures that are supposed to destroy a third of the human population in Revelation. Jesus actually told his disciples to be as wise as dragons, not serpents, and many of the now forbidden books of biblical scripture are filled with stories about heavenly dragons. Even the orignal concept of Hell was not the imitation of Greek Hades, but instead, it was having your soul consumed by the heavenly dragons. There are even ancient chruch mosaics, seldom seen nowadays, that depict God judging sinners sitting on a throne of entwined living dragons (the covering Cherubs), who gobble up the souls of those to fail to pass the judgement. And there is far more than this as my book about the Biblical Dragons reveals. As the readers will learn, the "real" Bible has more dragon lore than any fantasy novel!.

Christian fundamentalists should actually love D&D games because in fact, they typically echo their own dualistic beliefs of Good and Evil entities in an eternal struggle. This of course is nonsense. In the real Bible endorsed by Jesus (the Old Testament), there is no Lucifer or war in heaven, there are no demons, and Satan is nothing more than an obedient dragon that inflicts punishment on humans at God's command.

The theology of most modern Christians has almost nothing to do with the real Bible. In it God has no antagonists, the bible states he created both good and evil, and there is no imaginary fiery hell stolen from the Greeks, no demons, and nor devils that oppose him. This is all imaginary stuff the early Christians stole from pagan Greek and Zorastrian mythology to make their "new" religion popular to other pagans. So if anybody should love D&D games it should be Christian Fundamentalists, because their paganized concept of Christianity is as wacky and fantastic as any D&D game, and has nothing to do with the Old Testament scriptures which Jesus himself acknowledged to be the word of God, (with all of its heavenly dragons).

If the history of a group of people is different than the current condition of those same people, the history shouldn't matter much. White people use to have slaves, but we don't anymore. So why call us bad for it? [just an example].



to the guy who said the story is most important.

Where did this come from?

I am of the Blackfeet nation (Native American).

On the topic of slaves: Bible Slavery Quiz

If you review your Bible for answers, don't forget that King James was too weak-kneed and liberal to use the word "slave." Instead, he used the terms "bondman," "servant," "maid," "handmaid," "manservant" and "maidservant" when translating the term "doulos" from the Greek. That word, however, refers to slaves, that is, workers who are the property of their masters.

I was using it as an example. It had nothing to do with you. I'm just trying to say that we shouldn't judge a group of people on what was done in the past before they were even born.


EDIT: I'll have to check your link out. I'm not too sure about it's credability, last time you tried to show a bible contradiction it wasn't one. =D [or was it hyper]

IMO, role playing games are not dangerous to a person's soul. My hubby used to play D&D all the time. The only reason he doesn't play it much anymore is b/c he doesn't have the time.

Uses his LVL 32 magi to summon up the demon brownies of infinate hip widener +12. You need to roll a system shock versus diabetic shock DC 45 or die and go to heaven in chocolaty blissfull goodness.

Funny Story IMF

For the most part you are right but you can get an idea of what a large group of people (IE: a religion) will do over time.




It is a Baptist based web site and there are many contradictions that can not be passed off.

BTW: you can pass that Bible Slavery Quiz.

I have a ton of friends who play RPGs and only a couple of them peripherally know ones who are actually devil worshippers. I think with any activity, no matter what it is there is always going to be a tiny minority that have to be more different than all the rest. That to me is just fine, but it does give fear based christians a great big woody. Not all christians look down every dark alley expecting the devil to jump out, but some do, those are the ones that I think should be slapped. Honestly playing RPG's is harmless, all it does is give people something to do. Why not attack people who play Monopoly for promoting greed??
As for playing RPG's causing devil worship....I think christians give the devil (who I don't think exists anyway) way too much credit. They almost give more power to fear of the devil than love of god. Just shows how fear based christianity is...

In my own opinion (a long time RPer), Dungeons and Dragons is as much a path to spiritual corruption as is Harry Potter or some such. THe idea is that someone who is searching for meaning and believes they find meaning in fantasy (or escapist) elements may be led to things they aren't prepared for.

For example, "Magic" in DnD is cool and wonderous. "Magic" in real life is, well, serious. Someone who finds the idea of DnD magic leading them to actual magical practices does risk some psychic or spiritual damage if they just stumble their way into it.

I'm thinking that's what a lot of the religious folks are concerned about.

Its the same argument that smoking marijuana will lead one to selling their kidneys for a shot of heroin. Its a worst-case scenario that could, sadly, happen to someone. But to say the blame is on the pot and not on the individual or their supporting friends and family is really immature.