Is any one reading this a born again catholic? or do you know any born again catholics? i am interested in hearing their rational in being part of the church and holding the personal faith in jesus that they do.
not wanting any one to reply who will in any way redicule or run down someones stance, only wanting genuine discussion, in good taste.
im interested thats all.

I have never heard of that term before...born again Catholics..sorry but it's new to me

yeah, they are few and far between, but they do exist.

Can you tell me more about them? Do they get re-baptized like the born again christians do?

I am not sure but many ordinary catholics get rebaptised in adulthood, this phenomnon is not exclusive to protestant religions. They believe that salvation is by personal faith in the saving power of jesus alone, that one is saved by grace and not of any works. This is why i am curious how do these people rationalise there views which apparently conflict with the catholic church teachings on salvation.

Perhaps this will assist the discussion: Catholic Answers

QUOTE

Excerpt:

Are Catholics Born Again?
Catholics and Protestants agree that to be saved, you have to be born again. Jesus said so: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

When a Catholic says that he has been "born again," he refers to the transformation that God’s grace accomplished in him during baptism. Evangelical Protestants typically mean something quite different when they talk about being "born again."

^^And this brings up the perplexing question that I've always asked - what's the difference between a regular Christian and a "born again" Christian?

I was raised a Catholic, but I do not practice now. But, of course, I still know a lot about the Church.

Like many religions, you have groups that are liberal and others that are more orthodox. Within the Catholic Church, you'll find this as well, and even some special groups of Catholics, like the "Charismatic Catholics." These are Catholics who are a bit more like Penticostles -- that is, they go for a more vibrant, active worship style, such as shouting, speaking in tongues, falling down, shaking, etc.

You have some Catholics who really put high importance on the "born again" concept -- yet they keep it within a Catholic framework, so to speak.

A lot of Catholics are attracted to the other things that other faiths are doing, so they incorporate these other aspects, while still staying within Catholic guidelines.

Of course, you have some "renegade" Catholics who get fed up with current church policy and sort of splinter off.

Then there's guys like Like Mel Gibson, for example. He is a more orthodox Catholic -- he likes the "old ways" more than modern Catholic practices. He dislikes the changes that came out of "Vatican II" which was a series of reforms the church made back in the 1970s. For example, they stopped using Latin in the mass, and women were no longer required to have their hair covered while in church -- and many other changes.

After Vatican II, nuns were no longer required to wear their black habits. I remember this when I was a teenager -- we always used to say: "That's when the nuns became "Cool".

So, this is really a deep, rich subject. www.ironghost.wordpress.com

I was brought up in the catholic church and was born again or "saved" years later and became a Baptist.....but I'm not baptist anymore.

However it depends what you mean because; In the catholic religion communion and confirmation is accepting Christ so it is similar to being saved just done differently.
They don't call it "saved" as other denominations but i would regard it the same in my own perception.

Born agian+caholic? I think i know what their answer to every topic on this website is!

Hi PA,
Some people use the same word to describe different things. For example, one might say I am a Christian, merely meaning I am a good person and try to do no one any harm. Another person may say I am Christian merely meaning I follow the teachings of jesus and try my best to please God. But the point is that a true Christian is 'born again' of the spirit of God. When a person says I am a Christian it should be taken for granted that that person means born again, but with society afixing so many meanings to the word many feel the need to prefix the term born-again to clarify their meaning.
Am i making sense???

Only partly. WHat you say makes sense. That's what I've meant, all Christians are born again, there should be no difference, yet there always seems to be this stigma attached to saying you are a "born again" Christian.

I don't really know why people need the differentiation, especially since there seems to be a negative connotation when people say born again. I remember a conversation I was reading between two members on this forum (a Christian and a skeptic), the skeptic said YOu sound like a born again Christian, rather than a regular Christian.

I still haven't found out the difference. See what I'm saying.

Regards, PA

Here is the difference.....a christian...born into their faith...they have always practiced their faith and havent changed
born again - have came from either a christian that turned away and decided to come back hence born again or a NB that now believes and becomes born again or someone from another faith that takes up the christian faith and becomes born again....gee PA its not rocket science.....if you yourself where not orn a christian but later accepted christ into your life and took up the christian faith...then you are a born again christian
My mom became one and was re-baptized one some say she is a true born again christian

Ok, that's another answer. Thanks BM. HOwever, it's more complicated than you would think. Even a Christian who was Christian their whole life, never remembering a time they were not Christian, they are still born again. Everyone who wishes to enter the Kingdom of God MUST be born again, according to the Bible.

The conversation I mentioned in my last post, I don't remember the specifics of who said what, but when the skeptic said You sound like a born again Christian, the way it was said was derrogatory, as if there was something wrong with being a born again Christian.

So yeah, BM. It's not rocket science, but it's certainly a lot deeper than you would have me believe.

Does taht make sense.

Regards, PA

PA you yourself are a born again christian...you once told me you where not orn into the faith you found it yourself...so in conclusion you took it apon yourself to accept christ and follow the christian faith...therefore you where not aptized a christian as a child ut since you took it on later in life (in your teens) you are in fact a born again

BM, I know I am born again, EVERY CHRISTIAN IS BORN AGAIN!!!

John 3:3 - Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

It is a pointless and unbiblical distinction to say I'm born again, but someone who has been Christian their whole lives is just a regular Christian, since all CHristians are born again.

Regards, PA

NOT every christian how the heck can every christian be born again? if you are born into the faith and have always had it then you can't be born again
And thats bull IMO unless you are born again ie saved you cannot see the kindom of heaven...who is anyone to judge that...not even you can truly say that

Whether you remember it or not, there has to be a point in your life that you are reborn as a new creation. OTherwise, you cannot reach heaven. ALL Christians are born again. The John 3 passage makes that clear. UNLESS ONE IS BORN AGAIN, HE CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD - John 3:3

Regards, PA

As far as I remember while growing up in the Mormon faith, once you are babtized, you are thus born again because all of your sins are washed away. So in reference to the first post, once someone joins a religious faith and is babtized, or whatever ritual it may involve, they are born again.

TO HECK with that darn passage PA I don't give a toss for it, it means sweet damn all to me....no passage or no body can tell ANYONE who will or WONT get into heaven you KNOW it but out of ignorance you chose to ignore it and how on earth you managed to take a topic about born again Catholic and turn it into this crap Idon't know PA you need to lay down for a while sunshine
Dont try and tell ME wether or not I will go to heaven or not...why is it the christians always like to judge...PA give it a rest for petes sake

as I said in your new thread over in the other board, this passage was not aimed at you. I'm trying to reconcile regular Chrisitians and born again Christians. And from a biblical standpoint, all Christians are born again. Simple.

I wasn't attacking you, or saying anything to you specifically about not believing.

Understand!

Regards, PA

PA a born again Christian is someone who makes a concious decsion to accept Christ as their Saviour. A Catholic and some Protestant faiths do not believe this is so. They say you are born again at baptism, when you are an infant and not made any decsion for christ whatsoever the 'religion' is imposec upon you but you own belief s can never be. Also many chrsitian faiths, catholicism, etc place importance on good works to get one to heaven. You must go to confession, recieve holy communion, etc live a good life and recieve last rites etc in oredr to get to heaven. There is no security of salvation and one must earn it. Where as Christianity, or to make the distinction clear 'Born agin' christaiany (hence the need to distingusih) believes that faith in the sacrafice that Christ make on Calvary is the only way to recieve forgiveness from God, and one must therefore accept Christ as their saviour as a concious decision in order to come into the goodness of Christs sacrifice. "for by GRACE are you saved through Faith and NOT OF YOURSELVES it is the GIFT of God and it is NOT OF WORKS lest any man should boast" Ephesians.
Any clearer?
Best, Tags.

Ok, I guess that makes sense. I guess I'm just used to SYdney churches. The Biblical understanding of churches in Sydney, I have been told be many from out of town, is much greater than the rest of the world. I honestly can't fathom a Christian who feels the need to earn salvation. The entire backbone of Christianity, what makes it distinctive to every other religion is exactly that - that we don't have to earn salvation.

Thanks tags.

Regards, PA

wow these religious topics always get people so riled up!

indeed you cannot be saved by works alone or even by works and faith. faith will be evident in your works.

remember those high priests of the ancient jews? they used to wear the torah (miaturized versions on their forhead and go out of their way to do good wotks, al the while making it known that they were doing these good works.

so i am saying that works without faith are nothing. and that is the attitude of the catholic church. it doesnt mean that you go to confession or communion. it means that you give to charity and care for the unfortunate. it means that you forgive your tresspassers. its all in the lords prayer. no body can see the work of forgiveness right? nobody can see that you say your prayers at night or all day for that matter. nobody can see that you pray for someone with an addiction to acohol out of love right?

works absolutely go along with faith. and you cannot have faith without works. the church is trying to tell people that "if you think you have faith, here, measure yourself against this"

does that clear that up?

also it is possible to be born again catholic, as catholic is only the sect of christianity you belong to.

i worked with the RCIA, or rite of christian initiation for adults, in the catholic churches out in the stockton ca. area.

some of the initiates or "candidates" are from non christian chrches. so it is required that they receive a formal baptism. this is through submersion in water (which is purly symbolic)
some of the candidates are from other christian churches. and most of the time the candidate does not require re-baptism unless their previous religion is totally different from the trinitarian beliefs of the catholic church.

some of the faiths that do not require rebaptism are, episcopalian, lutheran, anglican, baptist, etc... these faiths are considered to have valid baptismal practices.

the candidates are scrutinized for a period of 5 weeks or so, so that the ininstructors know what the indidvidual needs as far as teaching.

in my experience most people have very little idea of any religion, even though they have been baptized in another church. indeed some of the instructors are out of touch as well. yes they know about what they are teaching, but do not seek to answer questions as i think they should.

Clear what up no one claimed any different.
So the Catholic church does not claim one is 'born again' at baptism?
Or place the sacraments as an aid to salvation? ie recieve tha eucharist to come into the good of saving grace. Do you not believe that the eucharist is a re enactment of the sacrafice at calvary, literally?

Ya cheeky git LOL I tried to explain more or less the same thing and you argued with me....*kicks PA up the rear and runs away*

Anyhoo like I have said many times you have to accept christ before you become a born again christian...thats the difference

Not quite, BM. You were telling me that someone who came to Christ at an older age, they were considered born again, while those Christians who were Christians their whole life are not considered so.







Whereas tags was focusing on something slightly different.

tags was discussing the Faith vs. Works argument. Not one I really understand, since as I said, the big difference between Christianity and every other religion is that we don't have to earn salvation, but I guess some people can think they have to earn it.

See what I mean.

Regards, PA

REALLY PA is that so? then my mother is not really a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN even though at the age of 40 she did convert and later re-baptized a christian...LOL PA you crack me up

I repeat - ALL CHRISTIANS ARE BORN AGAIN!!!! (That includes your mother, by the way).

Regards, PA

And I REPEAT..NO THEY AINT LOL

Do you really want me to pull out John 3:3 again? You seem to be offended by that, even though I'm not using it to preach. All Christians are born again. Simple. IF they are not born again, they are not Christian.

Regards, PA

You can paste that line OVER AND OVER AND OVER till you are blue in the face PA I STILL disagree with you.....to be born again you have to understand and fully accept christ into your life.........if you where already BORN into the faith and later still agreed with it all then you are NOT born again you are just still a christian........SIMPLE

People arenot born Christian (or are they???? *flashbacks of homosexuality thread*). Therefore, at some stage in their life, quite apart from their physical birth, they became born again in Christ. Whether they remember that time or not is a different matter entirely. But in my opinion, and from a Biblical perspective, every Christian is born again. Does this make sense now? Two births. The literal birth, the spiritual rebirth.

Regards, PA

[quote name='Paranoid Android' date='Feb 17 2006, 01:49 PM' post='1065658']
People arenot born Christian (or are they???? *flashbacks of homosexuality thread*).[quote]

Hehe..you crack me up sometimes!!

[quote]Therefore, at some stage in their life, quite apart from their physical birth, they became born again in Christ. Whether they remember that time or not is a different matter entirely. But in my opinion, and from a Biblical perspective, every Christian is born again. Does this make sense now? Two births. The literal birth, the spiritual rebirth.

Regards, PA
[/quote]

Yup..totally agree..although my parents were Christians when I was born I didnt actually become a true believer or born-again until I was old enough to understand what believing meant..confessed my sins to God, asked for forgiveness and asked for the holy spirit to come into my life.

BORN INTO THE FAITH LOL wow I didnt peg you to be that slow PA

BM I think you are totally missing the point PA is trying to get through to you here.
I think he is trying to say every True Christian is born again, its actually being born again that makes us Christians in the first place. One cannot be a Christian without being born again, just like one cannot have a square circle, in order to be called a circle it must be round, in order to be christian you must be born again.
Now that is not to say that there arent people out there who 'believe' they are Christians, but if they are not born again then they are not Christians but merely following christian ideals and values. PA would argue and quite correctly, that these people are not Christians.
There is a sutle difference in these two stances but i am sure you will see the point if you think about it.
PA believes that a person must be born again to be a Christian, hence all Christians (authentic, true ones) are inevitably born again!!

tags - What PA believes and what others believe are two different things.....I believe that anyone born into the faith and practices their faith is a true christian...just in the same way people like PA that take it up much much later(the jonny come latelys) in life and become born again...get my drift?

Well i get your drift but why then has it taken you so long to state this? You have numerous posts that seek to argue that PA is wrong, wrong, wrong. However now you are much more accomodating, and are claiming that in a way you are both right!! By the way your idea of a true Christian is entierly unbiblical, but this is another thread, start one if you wish, untill then

Everyones idea on topics such as this...are ALL different....I will always believe that a true christian is one born into the faith and kept going...not a johnny come lately

Put it in your pipe and smoke it

The point is regardless of "what you will always believe" you have spent numerous threads claiming PA is wrong, then you suddenly flip, to say we are all right!
And what do you mean a Johnny come lately?
Is this reflecting a Christian view that the longer one is a Christian the more god loves him? Statements like that are really foolish imo. It does not matter how long one is a Christian, just that one is a Christian.
Dont smoke a pipe!

BM are you actually claiming that if you dont happen to be born into a christian family..you dont have the right to be called a true christian?!
I dont think you realize what the term 'born-again' actually means..just because a person happens to be born into a family where there are christian beliefs DOES NOT make that person a christian they could go on and have completely pagan beliefs later in life! You have to be able to acknowledge God yourself..confess your sins and understand why and then you are re-newed or born-again in Gods eyes no matter what age..

A johnny come lately is someone who takes up the faith later on in life...gee tags I have aready explained this...it would help if you actually read my posts, instead of glancing at them and repeating yourself

Being a johnny come lately into a faith...gee ANY FAITH...does NOT (pay attention LoopyLou ) mean you are less a ie - christian, catholic, or buddhist even...could I make that more clerarer to each of you?????

Ohh and tags...I thought since you came from my part of the world you would have heard that saying long before now - put that in your pipe and smoke it....its called a figure of speach it mean ...think about it more



1st of all LoopyLou...read the above reply to tags ty..........
I know what a born again christian is...my mom is one and...she and her christian friends have tried (ohh so many times) to convert me....to be born again is to find christ and accept him into your life ect ect
Some believe to be a real christian you must go to church and read from the king james bible...but a lot of others believe if you have accepted christ into your life and worship him that's good enough...either way I don't care much for it...I just stick to my belief in God and leave it at that

BTW guys none of the above is meant to be sarcastic in any way

OHH and Beckys Mom...I thought that as you come from my part of the country youd have heard of sarcasm? See Iknew what you meant but I pretended i didnt and said I dont smoke.. see what i did there??...ooops im at the old sarccasm again... better go!!!

think about it more youself!!!

Weakest excuse if ever I saw one lol I'll play along...why of course you knew what I meant !!!!!!
Ohh well since you are so up on our sayings here in Ireland our slang even...by reading your last post I can only say the following...Ahem..

Pull the other one...it plays jingle bells

whatever

[quote Beckys_Mom]Everyones idea on topics such as this...are ALL different....I will always believe that a true christian is one born into the faith and kept going...not a johnny come lately[quote]

Which is it that you believe BM? You seem to be contradicting yourself..correct me if I'm wrong..

Show me where I contradict myself?

The first statement says that you believe a johnny come lately DOES NOT make that peson less of a christian..the next statement says that you believe a true christian is one who is born into the faith and NOT a johnny come lately..its a contradiction

WOW you're right...I did say that lol okie dokie I stand corrected well spotted LoopyLou..in fact you are the 1st person EVER on UM that has pointed out a mistake made by BM (and I am not being sarcastic either)

But this all started a while ago and I read from a few others that they bleived a person that finially accepts christs and becaomes a bornagain christian is a true christian....to me that's not entirley so...what about the christian who where baptized a christian (like I have had my lil girl baptized a christian..but I am not one myself..I have my reasons) if she grows to undrerstand it all and keep up the faith then she is a true christian too....thats what I was meaning to say...but got my wires crossed along the lines...meh it happens...BM never has claimed to be perfect