I work the graveyard shift and so I have been and advid Coast to Coast listener for about 10 years now. I don't agree with a lot of the guests that come on but I am entertained by the wide variety of topics discussed.

Aliens, Bigfoot, Abductions, Secret Groups bent on dominating the world are just a few of the many topics.

Last night the show concentrated on Excorsisims and they played a clip of a 16 yr old russian girl getting a demon out of her by her priest. It sounded convincing to me, what do other people think.

Link here to hear audio

hehe what's an ex-cor-sisim?

Exorcism. I've edited your topic title.

Heh Thanks. I had just gotten home from work and hadn't gone to bed yet so brain was on the down low.

I think that they are extemely dangerous for everyone involved.
Too many people are killed by nut jobs doing them who have no business doing the things they are doing, and too many other people get themselves hurt messing with things they do not comprehend can be a deadly threat to them.

I have participated in assisting a few excorcisms and they can be very dangerous to all involved yes. Not only on a spiritual level but a physiology and psycological level as well.

I don't think there is a bit of reality to demon possession or exorcism.

I once worked as a orderly in a psych ward, and worked with many people who were seriously and dangerously insane. They could scream and twist their bodies in the most amazing ways. There were some who were also highly intelligent. Many of them could speak several languages. Just because you're crazy doesn't mean your stupid.

But, anyway, i think serious mental illness is what is being mistaken for demon possession.

I will say this, however. Sometimes exorcism works like hypnotism or the power of suggestion -- if the person "believes" he or she has had a demon cast out, they may stop all their problems -- they heal themselves with their own minds and beliefs.

www.ironghost.wordpress.com

demon possessions are real. It's not some mental problem when people have been fine for 16 or 20 years and all of a sudden they start speaking in tongues and saying they're satan......contrary to popular belief, people don't just wake up one morning with mental problems; let alone mental problems that doctors can't diagnose properly.

Although I think a lot of Christian Churches don't really understand it like they should and go over board with it by claiming everyone in their congregation is possessed just because they have sin ful thoughts every now and then.

With my experience in assisting local clergy from various dominations, they for the most part attempt to rule out any possible mental diagnosis before performing their particular ritual.

Well, as someone who was actually exorcised...I'd have to say I really don't like them. They are dangerous and they are extremely frightening. I am completely against them, most especially when performed by a group of 20 on a girl of 10. Needless to say, I'm not too fond of cultists either. I know that church is a valid denomination, but they were acting like a cult, so that's what I'm going to call them.

So in my opinion, they are unnecessary and traumatizing. Then again, I'm a little biased on the subject.

If the power of suggestion is so powerful, then I can say that people who are really posessed, become mentaly ill because skeptics keep telling them that's what it is.

Exactly. Great post.

Zero and EofE once in a while along comes a kid who has been pounded with evil this, satan that, your worthless this, and beleives it literally , this idea that people just suddenly become possessed out of the clear blue sky is absurd people become their beleifs thats just what you don't understand , so it becomes possession to you, I think therefore i am.......Fear constructs are just that meant to keep one in a state of fear, Namaste Sheri

Sherri it's time to put an end to this. You tell me over and over the bible tells people they are worthless. Either come up with some scriptures and verses, or drop it. [Not being rude, just letting my skeptic side out].




Actualy, that's how possessions work. What's more absurd is that suddenly out of the clear blue sky someone gets a full blown mental problem. Not gradual, but INSTANT FULL BLOWN mental issues.

How do you explain the possessed people (oh excuse me, *cough* mentally ill people *cough*) that suddenly have this stuff happen to them and prior to that they weren't depressed, they weren't abused, they weren't told they were worthless and in fact have a great life: loving family, girl or boy friend, good job or career, strong religious belief (or sometimes no religious belief in this sort of thing), and have, or live in, a household that makes enough money to live very comfortably? Do they suddenly wake up one day beaten down by all of their blessings and think they're the devil too???

I know this subject very well i have had a few whom are very close to me who have suffered with mental illness and i have talked with them in depth, my mother happens to be one. You want to beleive in possessions i would ask why, mental illness doesn't just happen its a process over time. have either of you looked into this subject or you getting your facts from church??

Sherri, you just agreed with us.



That is exactly what we're saying. So we're asking you to explain the people who become possessed[I mean mentaly ill] all of a sudden out of the clear blue sky. With no symptons or any reason before it happened. And they start cussing God, and doing other things related to being possessed.

Zero here are your scriptures that infer the worthlessness of man he is incapable of doing anything he is naturally in sin, and not able to do things without the instrucution of 'god' and anything he does do is becasue of god not any thing from him the bible creates a dependent relationship not a interdependent one is what I'm saying.
Genesis 4
Adam lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant
and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of
the LORD I have brought forth a man."
Genesis 4:1 NIV


Exodus 2
During that long period, the king of Egypt died.
The Israelites groaned in their slavery and cried
out, and their cry for help because of their
slavery went up to God.
Exodus 2:23 NIV


Exodus 4
Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say."
Exodus 4:12 NIV


Exodus 4
You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth;
I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.
Exodus 4:15 NIV


Deuteronomy 33
And this he said about Judah: "Hear, O LORD, the cry
of Judah; bring him to his people. With his own hands
he defends his cause. Oh, be his help against his foes!"
Deuteronomy 33:7 NIV


Deuteronomy 33
"There is no one like the God of Jeshurun, who rides
on the heavens to help you and on the clouds in his majesty.
Deuteronomy 33:26 NIV


Deuteronomy 33
Blessed are you, O Israel! Who is like you, a people saved
by the LORD? He is your shield and helper and your glorious
sword. Your enemies will cower before you, and you will
trample down their high places."
Deuteronomy 33:29 NIV


Joshua 14
Now give me this hill country that the LORD promised
me that day. You yourself heard then that the Anakites
were there and their cities were large and fortified,
but, the LORD helping me, I will drive them out just as
he said."
Joshua 14:12 NIV


Joshua 24
But they cried to the LORD for help, and he put
darkness between you and the Egyptians; he brought
the sea over them and covered them. You saw with
your own eyes what I did to the Egyptians. Then
you lived in the desert for a long time.
Joshua 24:7 NIV


1 Samuel 12
"After Jacob entered Egypt, they cried to the LORD
for help, and the LORD sent Moses and Aaron, who
brought your forefathers out of Egypt and settled
them in this place.
1 Samuel 12:8 NIV


1 Samuel 14
But the men said to Saul, "Should Jonathan die--he
who has brought about this great deliverance in Israel?
Never! As surely as the LORD lives, not a hair of his
head will fall to the ground, for he did this today
with God's help." So the men rescued Jonathan, and he
was not put to death.
1 Samuel 14:45 NIV

All I see is a God trying to help us better understand the world and ourselves. He's teaching them. How do you get anything "worthless" out of this? Unless you consider anyone who accepts help from a God to be "worthless". That means you consider people who need help worthless. I see beauty in those scriptures.

How do you explain the possessed people (oh excuse me, *cough* mentally ill people *cough*) that suddenly have this stuff happen to them and prior to that they weren't depressed, they weren't abused, they weren't told they were worthless and in fact have a great life: loving family, girl or boy friend, good job or career, strong religious belief (or sometimes no religious belief in this sort of thing), and have, or live in, a household that makes enough money to live very comfortably? Do they suddenly wake up one day beaten down by all of their blessings and think they're the devil too???

In this post EofE is saying that this just doesn't happen with no warning ??correct?? that is not true there are tons of symtoms my mom was possessed for a year before with plenty of symptoms my dad was in Denial. also few are not religous and possessed, Its a religous brain child. the people who I have know personally were deeply in religion, tormented by the beleifs I hold a strong stance that religon becasue of its teaching will scare people into a state of mental illness or think and act like they are possessed i have seen things that are so sad, REligoin can be very dangerous in some cases. namsate sheri

He just stated that some don't even have religious backgrounds with such things. And the possessions come on suddenly, something that a mental illness won't normaly do without signs or reasons beforehand.

its creating a dependent relationship which is unhealthy and dysfunctional, many relationships are based in this need and looking to another to make them whole. Interdependent means you work as a team. one isn't greater or lessor both are congruent to the whole, REligion uses fear and a hieriarchial order to make one dependent, love which is unconditional is not dependent the natural essence of love is free, limitless and eternal.

A creator who gave you the ability to even exist, is indeed above you. There's nothing you can do about that. I, accept this and love my creator. If you don't agree with that, and the way I see those scriptures, then go ahead and disagree, but let us move on with this topic.

you guys don't know about mental illness you are going on heresay there are always symptoms and cause, rooted in beleif, one can't be 'possessed 'or mentally ill without beleiving they can be, you just beleive things 'just happen. there are no accidents there is always cause and effect. namsate sheri

Me too Zero....

Trying to use blessed scripture to show God doesn't care, or to show God trys to say people are worthless is about the dumbest thing I've ever seen someone try to do, and sheri don't feel bad, you aren't the first person to try.

The fact is, seeing as how God created everyone and everything; and seeing how everything that gets done is done through him, since if he wasn't in us we would cease to be......we Can't do anything without the Lord. It doesn't mean anyone is worthless, that's just a twisted interpratation.

Those quotes of scripture show how much God loves his people and how he helps them through their journey of life. It shows how God keeps his word by keeping his promises and stuff like that. Sheri you need serious spiritual help if you see bad in those quotes you posted.

So then some of the people that become possessed are not mentaly ill. Thanks Sherri for clearing that up!



Exactly EofE. By the way, I like that name.

You are defining conditional love that is mans understanding of that which is divine Zero there is much you don't understand, You can beleive however you want whatever works for you (god will show up to you in the way you THINK (beleive) . Look at that very deeply and you will see the truth of it. back on topic

Ohhh and so do you buddy. Even if we learn and grow in different ways and on different paths, I don't mind watching us both grow and learn new things. But don't pretend there's not much you don't understand.

Sheri like Zero tried to say for me before I saw your other post..... I was talking about how possessed people don't show any signs, they get possessed over night and then they have doctors trying to tell them they're mentally ill which they aren't. Like you have even said mentally ill people don't manifest an illness over night it happens over time, with many signs in between. Possessed people don't show these signs, they are perfectly fine and then suddenly exhibit signs of possession.


Thanks Zero, I like it too.

Exactly. If anything, the "power of suggestion" that skeptics like to use as an excuse could be a reason for someone to become mentaly ill after a possession! Skeptics pound into their skull that they're mentaly ill when they aren't [not talking about all cases, I'm sure their are plenty who really are just mentaly ill].

You are confirming what i am saying E of E, showing in your post in your own words the same thing I'm saying proving this is a valid observation ,then your psot goes into how i i am persecuting religion and am not the first to do this and it doesn't mean this and how could I say this and its been topped off with an wagging finger oh you better not say that sheri' this is the standard post by religion IME nasmaste Sheri

We're saying that when it comes to such cases, it is in fact possession and NOT a mental illness. Do you believe in demons possessing people?

When someone figures out how to respond to nonesensical ramblings let me know.......then i'll reply to that post by sheri.

I'm sorry let me clear this up mentally ill and possessed are the same things again i know about this first hand (my moms converstation with me gave me insight i asked her what she experinced she said her mental illness lead her to believe she was possessed, in retrospect there were symptoms, I have taked in depth with her and a few others i have known, Why are you so sure and based on what besides hearsay are you Stating this is s FACT ...Zero that possession and mental illness are two entirely different things , Possession is the mental illness of the religious.

I'm repeating your post to me and you call mine nonsensical ........alrighty then I can see this is going no where thankyou for the conversation we will just have to agree to disagree
Namaste Sheri

We just explained to you how they are NOT the same thing. You even said so yourself. When a person has no signs or reason to become mentaly ill, but become "possessed", then it is NOT mental illness, because mental illness does not come on that way.

I know this subject very well i have had a few whom are very close to me who have suffered with mental illness and i have talked with them in depth, my mother happens to be one. You want to beleive in possessions i would ask why, mental illness doesn't just happen its a process over time. have either of you looked into this subject or you getting your facts from church??

They are the same thing i used the word interchangeably Zero My mother who was mentally ill thought she was possessed. she cussed 'god' too and she's religious now and was then. My mother -n-law was mentally ill thought she was possessed she wouldn't get help she had alot of symtoms Zero and we all saw that we tried to get her help i know this area very well , i spent years with doctors and what not. she was also very religous

People who have no signs of mental illness, or reason to be, become "possessed", so what is it if it's not mental illness? They speak in languages they never even knew, they cuss out God, and do very odd things that go hand in hand with possession.

Anytime I've heard of a "real" exorcism, it's been after mental illness if pretty much ruled out. As they said on the program, when the interviewer talks to the persons doctors and the doctors say things like "we've tried everything and don't even know what's wrong" is when the interviewers generally say they start looking at cases.

They're not talking about a bunch of so called religious nuts swarming a person so they can "feel" holy. That's akin to comparing that guy that tried to kill those kids to bring his girlfriend to life as a sterling example of a knowledgeable practicing pagan, and can be worse sometimes than not doing anything at all.

Mental illness and posession are different things that at times do seem similar and I'm sure there's misdiagnoses on both sides at times.

coasttocoastam.com rocks by the way, have been a subscriber for a few years now. Great to have Art back!

Possession can also be fairly gradual at times too... As that guy was saying, most of the time it comes from doctors that have been seeing patients and have exhausted encyclopedia medica, have (even though unbeliever) come to the conclusion that something else is wrong, and state point blank that they cannot offer this as a diagnosis, they will be ridiculed by the community, and is therefore unreported and left as something they just don't talk about for the most part.

Statements like, "I can't believe in this. It's your problem now."

Misdiagnosis happens on both sides no denying that. I would rather find out that someone is suffering from a mental illness and to have them medically treated versus having them thrashing around in a chair frothing at the mouth with people around them when they have a bonefide medical condition.

On the other hand when a doctor, after consulting their peers along with consulting the various books of medicine with no diagnosis then possession could be looked at with some credibility.

On one hand you have groups on both sides who will take an extremist view and yell until they are blue in the face to validate their point of view. I have seen cases that have been helped from both sides of the fence.

But I don't expect people to embrace my points of view with open arms, I am human so I err at times. And I often appreciate views from another angle brough to my attention.

No, you didn't just repeat what I wrote and post it, you took a very clear statement and twisted it around in a nonsensical manner to make it sound like I supported your ideas....

Anyway, back on subject. Possession is real and the proof is staring you and the rest of the skeptics right in the face. The docotors know possession is real they just don't want to admit it because it doesn't intertwine with their scientific beliefs. People who have been possessed, do and experience things that no other (so called) mentally ill patient does. It goes against all of their medical knowledge........when they run tests on people and find no reason for an illness it's because they aren't sick! The fact is, if possession was just a mentle illness there would be a brand NEW mental illness out there that they would have named, they haven't! Because these people don't have any illness they can detect, they are possessed, and those dang on medical people know it.

Lets just look at the facts for a second shall we..... When someone has a medical illness doctors diagnose them and perscribe medical treatment that fixes the problem. In the case of possession a medical problem cannot be diagnosed, no medical treatment fixes the problem. On the other hand, when possessed people (who have a spiritual problem not a medical one) go for spiritual help, they are diagnosed, perscribed a treatment (exorcism), they're treated and then cured, problem fixed.

Sometimes it takes more than one exorcism just like sometimes it takes more then one surgery or kemo treatment. But in the end the patient is healed. Facts are facts.

If exorcism wasn't real it wouldn't work, why can't scientific people just accept that? Instead all you can say is that it's just their mind making them believe it works, whatever! If that's true why aren't these doctor just telling every fatily ill patient their completely healed so there mind will fix them too?!

In short, to reitorate.......exorcism is real and there isn't any disputing it.

For those of you who think that possession is a state of mental illness it doesn't work like that. If that person knows demons are possessing her/him, and they know what is going on, and somone convinces them they are crazy don't mean they are crazy. Ever heard that crazy people don't know they are crazy? I have much exprerience with mentally ill people such as skitzophernics, one of my family has this mental illness, and we always have to tell her what she hears isn't there, crazy people don't know they are crazy.

What about when others witness these demonic attacks, such as crosses being turned up side down, or chair being thrown, or powerful strength and the length of time the person can keep it up. Or have you concidered how the possessed would know secrets such as which no one could have possibly told them.

Also these attacks usually come because of the evil eye, so to speak if a witch/wizard type person trys cursing the other person, its not cursing which happens, but sending demons into anothers body or mind.

Like another person said, full blown mental illness does not happen over night.

This is all your opinion. In the scientific world(and the rational one), it does not exist.

I am quite adept with exorcism / demonology / and the history of demonic possession. I can very much assure demonic possession is real.

First of all, my brother is a schizophrenic. I have been to classes on schizophrenia in order to cope with his illness and ways to treat it. I have talked to a number of pyschiatrists and read a number of books regarding it to have a good knowledge of what my loving brother was dealing with. I have met a number of people with this disease as I visited him in the hospital a number of times, and I have grown to see certain symptoms of it that differ from demonic possession.

The first and foremost thing I find between demonic possession and mental illnesses is the fact the possessed victim will state that he is in fact possessed. A person that believes they are possessed will come asking for help, however, a person with a mental illness does not believe anything is wrong, they instead believe they are above the average person. They think everyone else is crazy, and they have been enlightened. A possessed victim will want to be cured, and in order to even perform a ritual exorcism, permission needs to be granted from the victim. Schizophrenic victims believe they are right, and all others are wrong, so why would they accept such a fate. It takes months, and sometimes years to convince a mentally ill person to take medications to see if it helps them. However, possessed victims will visit a number of psychiatrists asking what is wrong with them, and how it can be cured.

Before exorcisms are thought of, the possessed victim must see a number of psychiatrists to see if it is in fact a mental illness. Many of possessed victims are then SENT to roman catholics or orthodox churches looking for a bishop that will approve an exorcism, because all medicine has failed. Exorcists in this day and age are being rigorously trained in psychiatry to debate mental illness or demonic influence. Even when a priest has come to the conclusion, a board vote within the church has to be cast in order to get permission from a bishop for them perform an exorcism. Valid exorcisms by the church are not done spare of the moment, it is a step by step process of elimination that is carefully regarded as a last step hope, and in the case of demonic possession, the only hope.

Demonic possession is on a rise, and the church is teaching more classes on demonic possessions in Rome then ever from priests who have said to have been face to face with these victims. If anyone has any questions on Demonic Possessions , Exorcisms, or Demonology, feel free to PM me for information.

God Bless,

By chance do you have any references that you could share?

Would someone please direct me to the seating section for "skeptics"? I think I'd like to stay a while in this thread...... Thanks!

Now that I'm comfy, I'd like to address some of the points one at a time.


Just because psychiatry hasn't yet classified a particular mental illness doesn't mean that illness doesn't exist.

I think that would be another case of using religious beliefs to explain what we don't understand. (IMO, a primary reason that religion exists in the first place)

Where can I find reliable evidence of such occurrences? Note: witness testimony is not often reliable. Just ask a police officer or judge.

Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree again. The sudden onset of the psychotic symptoms of schizophrenia, for example, is very common especially in adolescents. Need a reference? Do a Google search for "sudden onset" and "schizophrenia" and I'm sure you'll find plenty.

Again, I think it is erroneous to jump to the conclusion that demonic possession exists based on such anecdotal evidence. I tend to lean toward the "power of suggestion" argument on this one. I also don't think they're necessarily cured when they stop behaving strangely. The underlying emotional/mental issues that caused those symptoms to arise may still be present.

Denial of their illness is common in schizophrenics, manic depressives and others. However, such denial is not persistent in other types of mental illness. When it comes to this issue, maybe a good comparison for the "possessed" would be hypochondriacs. They know there is a problem, but they misconstrue what the problem actually is.

The brain is the least understood part of the human body.

Hypochondriacs could be true, but another fact about demonic possession is that it is rare. Although demonic possession appears to be on the rise, I would not believe that the average psychiatrist will ever meet a demonically possessed victim. We have mental dis-orders that have been documented in medical books that many psychiatrists will never even encounter during there practice. If they run a chance of never even seeing a diagnosed and registered medical illness, the chances of actually seeing a demonically possessed individual are just as rare. Not to mention the fact if a pyschiatrist actually met someone that was demonically possessed, they would do there best to never even think about that being a possible symptom, but instead send them on there way with pills or just advise a different psychiatrist.

A professional psychiatrist would basically neuter his/her career if they openly admitted that they believed in possession. So there is the possibility that there are some out there who have come to the conclusion that this phenomena is possible but they don't want to hurt their career. This would be understandable since I think most are actually trying to help people with whatever disorder they may have and admittance to the "spiritual woo woo" would hamper their ability to do so.

Now that, we can agree on! Except I think our reasons are very different. So far, I have yet to see any evidence that demonic possession actually exists.

You need faith to believe in such things, or, you need to be present during an actual exorcism. If we had evidence it existed, it would obviously be in text books for pyschology. Now that is not as easy as it sounds. It would take another psychologist to fight against all the other ones with his beliefs, and he will more then likely be looked down upon by his peers. Its the same when a scientist theorizes another idea to go against the theory of relativity, his peers laugh at him no matter of the fact that they cannot prove him wrong. The same goes with hundreds of archaeologists that still try to prove that Atlantis still thrived. They have books about there theories on how it was real, but not everyone takes them literally. They have books on actual exorcisms, but once again, whether you believe them or not is up to you.

Picture it this way.....if your a pyschologist and you go to a pyschology convention saying you saw a REAL exorcism, is like going to NASA and saying you were abducted by an alien. May very well be true, but chances are they are going to laugh you, and thats gonna hurt your credibility and your career.