I seen a discussion on this topic in a thread so here it is.

Their Own Version of a Big Bang

Those who believe in creationism -- children and adults -- are being taught to challenge evolution's tenets in an in-your-face way.

By Stephanie Simon, Times Staff Writer

WAYNE, N.J. — Evangelist Ken Ham smiled at the 2,300 elementary students packed into pews, their faces rapt. With dinosaur puppets and silly cartoons, he was training them to reject much of geology, paleontology and evolutionary biology as a sinister tangle of lies.

"Boys and girls," Ham said. If a teacher so much as mentions evolution, or the Big Bang, or an era when dinosaurs ruled the Earth, "you put your hand up and you say, 'Excuse me, were you there?' Can you remember that?"

The children roared their assent.

"Sometimes people will answer, 'No, but you weren't there either,' " Ham told them. "Then you say, 'No, I wasn't, but I know someone who was, and I have his book about the history of the world.' " He waved his Bible in the air.

"Who's the only one who's always been there?" Ham asked.

"God!" the boys and girls shouted.

"Who's the only one who knows everything?"

"God!"

"So who should you always trust, God or the scientists?"

The children answered with a thundering: "God!"

LA. TIMES

Opinions?

They always start with the most impressionable minds whether they're christian or islamic it's all the same. Get me while their young.



Q. How do I know god doesn't exist?
A. Because he's not there

When I get asked about something scientific like the Big Bang, and why I believe it instead of the biblical account of creation, I ask the questioner, "Do you remember the moment you were born? No? you don't? Well, you may not remember it, but, obviously, you were there, weren't you?"

This is scary stuff. They're all the way into NJ now. These people are like killer bees!
Sounds like a "Youths for Hitler" rally.
I could never be a teacher. If some kid did that to me, by the time they stopped rolling their clothes would be outta style.

let us remember that this is the religion that burned the library of alexandria and supported 500 years of the dark ages.

Did you see that God's army thread here a while ago?

Well, I have to admit, I have a hard time believing anything that we say about the past, when we weren't even there. Even Jesus!


Wasn't it a Catholic priest who created the big bang theory in the first place?

No, sorry.
I'll do a search on it later. It should be in the archives. Is that the name of it? God's Army?"

I've never seen that topic once I don't believe. O.o

Zero...

In 1927, the Belgian priest Georges Lemaître was the first to propose that the universe began with the explosion of a primeval atom. His proposal came after observing the red shift in distant nebulas by astronomers to a model of the universe based on relativity. Years later, Edwin Hubble found experimental evidence to help justify Lemaître's theory. He found that distant galaxies in every direction are going away from us with speeds proportional to their distance.

Full Article

Here is the OP:

Well, I know how odd things can happen in the world, even bizarre things that are extremley improbable. Just one of those types of things happening can throw us off track and destroy everything we thought we new about the past. If it wasn't for personal experience, I wouldn't believe in Jesus either. =P

I'd be agnostic and believe in here and now and that is it. I don't know what to say about the topic itself, because everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and just because you believe that what they're being taught is wrong, doesn't mean you have to complain about it.

Zandore, that 04:46 long video scared me more than "Silence of the Lambs!"
---------------------------------------------
Zero,
Are you talking about what the kids are being taught about disagreeing with the teachers, or with them being taught about science. The statement could be taken either way...

great thread Zannie Best post was Zero's gotta love the kid lol

If we are going to teach creation science as an alternative to evolution, then we should also teach the stork theory as an alternative to biological reproduction.” Watson


“The evolution of the brain not only overshot the needs of prehistoric man, it is the only example of evolution providing a species with an organ which it does not know how to use” Arthur Koestler

“If one attempts to assign to religion its place in man's evolution, it seems not so much to be a lasting acquisition, as a parallel to the neurosis which the civilized individual must pass through on his way from childhood to maturity” Freud

Evolution is not a force but a process. Not a cause but a law.” Morley "

“I was a young man with uninformed ideas. I threw out queries, suggestions, wondering all the time over everything; and to my astonishment the ideas took like wildfire. People made a religion of them.” Darwin himself.


Enjoy

GO DARWIN GO DARWIN GO DARWIN

curiousity LMAO ha ha ha ha ha ha Namaste Sheri

Took my silly pill today and found my funny bone.

Darwin was an agnostic if I'm not mistaken. He neither believed or disbelieved in a God.

This is correct Zero, in fact he was studying to become a clergyman in his early life. When his daughter died, his belief in Christianity was destroyed, although still classified himself as agnostic.

So???? namaste Sheri

Yep, at least that is the story that I have heard.

Not to go off topic, but I believe it's a bit foolish that his final moment with the christian god was ended with the death of a loved one. This is most peoples first reaction when someone they love very much passes away. They think it's God's fault and point fingers in that direction. For such an intelligent man, it's a foolish display of wisdom if it was in fact his deciding factor to abandon faith.

Not that it is god's fault, but that no loving god would take a child, a man's daughter and therefore god does not exist.

Exactly. I agree Azalin. God in my opinion, is letting things happen. Not MAKING them happen.


I lost my best friend when I was 13 years old. He was shot in the heart. That never even phased my beliefs in God.


God does not TAKE anyone.

I'm old, but I ain't old enough to have know Darwin, but somehow I think there was more too it than that!

*Train, rounding the bend, wheels comming off the track on this thread!*

Whoo, Whoo! Look out...

Are you thinking he was a Diest or something Mako? =D

Naw, I wasn't refering to him being an agnostic, but I think that there is more to the reason that he quit religion other than the death of a child. He may have already been borderline and the death gave him the final push.

Possible. I've read about the agnostic info here[Talk about one ugly man.... cough cough]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwi...ews_on_religion

“We can allow satellites, planets, suns, universe, nay whole systems of universes, to be governed by laws, but the smallest insect, we wish to be created at once by special act.”

To kill an error is as good a service as, and sometimes even better than, the establishing of a new truth or fact”
Charles Darwin quotes

“An American Monkey after getting drunk on Brandy would never touch it again, and thus is “...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance.”much wiser than most men“At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace the savage races throughout the world”

”“False facts are highly injurious to the progress of science, for they often endure long; but false views, if supported by some evidence, do little harm, for every one takes a salutary pleasure in proving their falseness.”

“The highest possible stage in moral culture is when we recognize that we ought to control our thoughts.”
Animals, whom we have made our slaves, we do not like to consider our equal.”
Charles Darwin quotes

IMO based on some of these quotes this is a man that saw the constructs ( Religion) for what it was , I know its the generic explanation "oh he had a bad experince with religion"
One doesn't need to hate something to out grow it a part of maturity is moving on when something no longer is serving you, the gray area is vast and enlightenment begins there. I have always felt that he was attempting to convey that growth and evolving are inherent in life , Life always grows and becomes more of itself, you can't alter that but you can determine the direction you will grow. There is wisdom anywhere you look including religion ( I knew intuitively Religion was incomplete in its teachings and understandings)and gave me a reason to seek out other perspectives, when I asked myself who am i .... But you have to be willing to give up everything you think you know to really see. Religon is intrumental in teaching what inherently and naturally we are not..Just my thoughts Namaste sheri

Your right Mako, it was the final push, I just don't believe it should of been. Everyone blames god for events that don't go there way. I've seen athiests blame god all the sudden when something terrible and un-expected event happens, which is just strange.

We are only human, and we feel better to blame, and/or transfer the blame onto something else. Darwin from what I know though, was a big into intelligent design but fell away from it after seeing some horrors in nature. This was the main influence that pushed him away from God since he had no belief in the old testament of the bible.

There you have it . Good find Zero.

what i find interesting is the way Zero and azalin go about disagreeing, What are your own thoughts on evolution? do you have any?? Namaste sheri

Evolution = Correct to a certain degree. It's basically just adaption. I just don't believe it's even close to fact, or indesputable in every since like people make it out to be.

Why don't you beleive its even close to fact?? Fact of what I would be intersted in more detail because i looked into evolution and came up with my owwn way of understanding it deciding what it says to me ( much like you i decide what i think or not think no other person place or thing) I asking you to do the same i don't care what you think as being 'right or 'wrong just trying to see how you think thats why i ask. I enjoy well versed mind basically....namsate Sheri

Personally I do believe in parts of evolution, but everything is apart of God's plan. If there is in fact evolution things evolve at Gods will.

Sherri what is your outlook on evolution? You seem to not believe in it.

At that time "Evolutionism" implied creation without divine intervention, and Darwin avoided using the words "evolution" or "evolve, it was blashmeous to talk against religion in the 1800's.

I think Darwin was attempting to convey a truth about life which is all things evolve in a time when new ideas especially ideas that went against the religious construct of the day, would not be embraced let alone considered, he knew he was up against a pretty big dog.

Zero i can't imagine what it must of been like for him to want to consider another perspective and be shunned for it.


so you have trouble beleiving what????? Your turn and post something with detail Zero.

You posted no detail on what you actualy believe of the REAL Theory of evolution.

You know, natural selection; survival of the fittest, etc...

survival of the fittest is a construct, which gets its roots in the garden of eden story or the hieriarchial order as defined by the bible the survival os the fittest is an off shoot of that, natural selction in what context???? Oh no i don't beleive in survival of the fittest, do you want to know why or is this enough???

LOL Sherri, NO IT DOES NOT. Darwin was the one who created that idea!


And yes, I'd like to know why.

zero he may of coined it but t gets its roots in religon most ideas (constructs do) All ideas are off shoots of other ideas, you just think in terms of seperation, do you know what capitalistic is Zero??

I rarely say things like this, but this type of teaching is just moronic. It just screams, "I'm afraid, I'm afraid!!".

It's sad that we live in such a seemingly advanced age yet ingorance still has strong pockets of protectors.

Sad, truly sad.

Please explain to me one more time, CLEARLY how the Adam and Eve story shows survival of the fittest. But first tell me what survival of the fittest is in your opinion.




Afraid of what?

In "The Origin of Species" Charles Darwin theorized that natural selection was the
mechanism that explained the process of evolution. Darwin's theory of natural selection helped to convince most people that life exists in its present form as a result of evolution, rather than a random series of inexplicable miracles.

Darwin's theories basically accomplished two major feats: The first is that they confirmed the belief that all organisms distribute changes from a common ancestor, which supported the theory of evolution almost conclusively. The second is that scientists are no longer forced to question whether evolution is fact or fiction. Evolution is considered to be a scientific fact.

Darwin introduced the concept of species changing and adapting slowly over time, and surmised that those adaptive change most often occurred via the mechanism of natural selection. The concepts contained in the terms "Natural Selection" and/or "Survival of the Fittest" are, either separately or as a whole, a valid scientific explanation for evolution. Darwin’s observations showed that many distinctively diverse organisms of plants and animals were related through some yet to be discovered explanation. He described Natural Selection as the "preservation of favorable individual differences and variations, and the destruction of those which are injurious or the Survival of the Fittest."


An additional element of Darwin's theory encompasses the variance in the physical and habitual traits of each species. This is the area in which the Survival of the Fittest theory most often comes into play. Darwin asserted that in order for a species to cope with the ever changing environments and circumstances it is subjected to, it must not only adapt, but must also be capable of passing on those adapted characteristics to its offspring.


Darwin's theory that species adapt to various environments without any help from divine entities is still accepted by most scientists, though it has been expanded upon. One of the most common reasons people are so desperate to prove Darwin wrong is because they have interpreted his theories to imply that humans evolved from apes. This was not however, his assertion. Evolutionism actually proclaims that contemporary apes and humans evolved from a common ancestor, but that ancestor was in a variety of ways, quite different from contemporary apes. This explanation doesn't do a whole lot to calm people's vehement claims of sacrilege and blaspheme, but it does provide an avenue of acceptance for them to venture down, should they choose to do so. After all, scientific theories should not be accepted or rejected simply based on whether people like the implications of the results. Theories survive or perish based on their ability or inability to accurately predict observations and generate supportive evidence.



I posted this from another site, Namaste sheri

Now explain to me how that fits in with Adam and Eve. O.o

And how did Darwin gets this idea from religion.

Zero It has occurred to me that depending on whether you beleive in 'god' or not will affect how you beleive in this, knowing you beleive in "god I have always addressed you from that place, What I have been trying to tell you is as long as you see life as seperate from each other as in (a heriarchial order) Most religous people think in a greater then a higher power sort of line of thinking, I truly didn't know you didn't know that , i really thought it was common knowledge, sorry about that kiddo. i don't beleive in a hierarchial order so I do not see Darwins theory in that vein does that make sense???

NO offense, Sheri, but you still haven't answered how Survival of the Fittest is a religious construct, formed from the Adam and Eve story.......

Not not really. =/

Didn't really answer my question, but ok.

Pa wasn't it you that said there is a heiriarchial order to everything thats just the way it is???

Post 5 – Arguments from culture
I think Pa answers this very nicely Zero i'll let him have the floor....

In regard to the other Bible passages you quoted in your most recent post, of course there is a hierarchy. Everything has a hierarchy. In the army for example, if all soldiers were “equal”, then who makes the decisions to move left or move right, to fight or to run? There has to be a chain of command in the army, else everything fails. Yet on the battlefield, when it comes down to it, they are all human beings, bleeding and dying for their cause. No one is greater than anyone else. There is also a hierarchy in the Christian God-head – God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Jesus (the Son) is not greater than, or even equal to the Father. Yet the Son is not inferior to the Father either. Likewise in relationships, woman is not inferior to man, but equal to man, though there is a hierarchy. Again, from my previous post, Christians submit to Jesus every day. Does this make Christians second class citizens? By no means. A Christian is no more, or no less, than a non-Christian. Yet when a woman is asked to submit in the SAME MANNER, somehow this is a chance for the man to stomp all over the woman, for the woman to be treated as second class. It does not make sense. As I have conceded in the past, when abused these Laws can be used to oppress and discriminate women. As Dr Broughton Knox puts it though – Sin has debased headship into dominance and obedience into servility....... But it is not to be so (Knox: Selected works, volume 1 The Everlasting God, page 94). I must agree with Knox. IT MUST NOT BE THIS WAY! This inequality must not be so.