Watching I-Robot again got me thinking.


Do you believe that consciousness is bound by the brain or is separate and why?


If it is indeed a part of the brain and not separate, what makes us different from Robots? Why do we call them Artificial Intelligence. What IS intelligence then? We don't consider Robots "Alive" now would we? Well, what difference between us and robots qualifies us as "a living thing" and not a robot? Is it just a more complex set of "code"? What does it mean to be alive? If I were to kill another human, why would it matter if that person is basically the same as a Robot? They are not actual alive, neither am I, I'm just a product of a brain and body, the brain holding all of the information I use to act. They are the same, just a "computerized" body.

I found one part of I-Robot very interesting. When the robot had a choice to either save a grown man not completely under water or a little girl who was completely under water. It did statistics and came to the outcome that it was more probable the girl would die anyway and that the man had a better chance of surviving, so as it was trying to save the man [Will Smith], the man kept screaming at him to save the girl, but the robot wouldn't listen because saving the man was the logical choice. Why do we have the ability to reason this way? You would think that our natural instincts would tell us to accept the help, and let the other person die, but yet most humans [I'm sure there's a few people who would though] wouldn't do this. The more you look into it, the more complicated it gets.






Just being on these forums pondering on all of these questions is more than enough for me to personaly believe that there is more to us than just a brain with genetic code.



I guess some of the most important questions would be.

If we really don't have free-will, why do we feel that we do [oh come on, admit it, it FEELS like we do].

How did evolution create the consciousness. We're the only species that seems to reason the way that we do.

Are we really "Robots"?

Why does evolution, something that is suppose to help us survive, create beings that can question their own existence, and even commit suicide? What if we are living through natural selection as we speak, and our consciousness is what kills us out? If the consciousness is a part of evolution, how will the consciousness evolve, and why?




If one ponders enough on this type of thing, it can actual become very frustrating. Looking down at your hands wondering, "Why am I here?". I believe in God, but also question his existence. Some people claim God created us, others claim we're all here via natural means for no purpose or reason. But no one really knows and that becomes frustrating. Hell, I'd be happy just to have an answer, even if it was that we're here via chance for no reason and no purpose. =(

I know I'm jumping from subject to subject but I'm just thinking as I type and I created this topic because I'm interested in discussion of the consciousness and I also felt like ranting.

It's mad late and I couldn't read the entire thing so if I repeat anything sorry I'll fix it later
But I believe that consciousness is something that exists outside of the brain. Spooky how I was discussing this earlier. Anyway I believe that this partially has to do with NDEs and OBEs, etc. We did hash over it a bit in another thread. And I remember one gentleman had an NDE. He was dead for three days which I found pretty amazing. I also believe in reincarnation so that to me is a way of consciousness transcending death.
I-Robot was a good movie.

I was mad tired when I posted it. Still don't know why I'm not in bed yet. And yeah, I-Robot was a great movie.


Hmmm. It just seems odd to me. Based on the idea that consciousness is outside of the brain, we're robots. O_o

Cool, if that's the case because the portions that I read were very thoughtful. I love interesting theories and this is a good one. My roommate actually believes that this universe is similar to the matrix. That consciousness is not necessarily related to life and that it can go in cycles. Sort of the way water returns to it's source. Consciousness is trying to return to bigger source. You could call it God. He thinks that this is why some people look for things or feel empty. They haven't tapped into God yet.
And as a believer of reincarnation, I think that the brain can hold subconscious memories and past life memories. But it can be tricky if you don't get a proper regressionist.
The brain is very fascinating and we are always discovering new things about it. To think that it isn't necessary is very mindoggling.

Both.

I guess I should have added a third poll choice. "Both" =D

I voted the first one even though it is both in my opinion.

Hmmm. So how does the consciousness change when the brain dies?

we ARE robots, basically, but we're born instead of put together by a scientist. that's virtually all that separates us, though. think about it- they'd have brains, think for themselves, and though they might be void of emotion, that's only a part of what the human brain carries. so they might be missing one or two things, but they would still be the same as us.

i adored the movie Irobot. there were many parts throughout it where i wanted to cry, simply because it was a movie with a very good point, and it was portrayed perfectly. sad thing is, that could be our future. we will probably end up making the same mistakes that the people in the movie made.

it's kind of funny though how, when watching that movie, you didn't feel any compassion for most of the robots as they were killed, but Sonny was different. the audience felt an emotional connection with him and thought of him as being human. so what is it that makes us feel compassion for these things, even if they are robots? is it the fact that they have emotions and can return the care?

humanity is odd. sometimes, i can't wait to die just to get away from it. haha.

But if we're robots, then me and you are actualy not "alive" right now. We're just here following our "code" [brain, genetics, etc]. Like a program on a computer. It has no intelligence other than what we gave it. It doesn't actualy think. How are we "aware" but a robot is not? Is it possible to actualy make a robot "aware" of it's own existance? I don't think it is. Why are we different if we are just a body and brain?

Wouldn't believing that we are robots insist that our "awareness" is just an illusion produced by the brain and we aren't actualy aware of anything at all?




Also, how are we aware that we're feeling compassion? How are we aware in the first place if we're not actualy... alive. We're just basically a computer. Does this mean that computers are actualy aware and alive and we shouldn't treat them bad? =D

good points. i suppose that our awareness is just another thing that robot's wouldn't have. but the basic functions are similar... they are just different creatures. dogs aren't aware, but they're alive, correct?

actually, i think that my computer is aware and is trying to ruin my life. stupid thing... *kicks computer*

Well, if a brain is just a bunch of "code" then technically dogs aren't alive. And neither are we if that's all there is to us. WHY aren't robots alive but we are, if our brains are just a complicated "computer"?


EDIT: I think dogs are aware of their own existence, eh? If not then they really are just..... computers in flesh.


What exactly is "life"? Why do we consider humans to have life, but not computers?

You're getting into what Pison and Orion Von Koch talk about.

Since a teenager I've been referring to the body as a "shell". It's the unit that contains us. Very much of what surrounds us is very similar to computer programming. Part of one "theory" is God is "The Great Programmer" and our DNA is our code run in a 3D environment... or maybe 4D is where it runs or 5D, since our bodies are limited to the 3D I guess the program running in 5D would make more sense...

Something like that anyway. Doesn't change my belief... I'm sure I'll get the real answers someday, either through science within my lifetime or from God after time. Either way is fine by me. Doesn't get the garbage thrown out any faster or dust the bookshelf or brush my teeth for me, but is interesting and I do look forward to finding out.

Guess I'll have to google their names. =P

I too, think of my body as just a "shell".

hehe no need to google, they're posters here on UM... there's more ideas than theirs, that are still similar out there on google yeah, but it's a local easy spot to find them here on UM for at least some of it.

Pretty interesting stuff. Wish I was better at math. Just because I don't understand something doesn't make it untrue.

I knew that. =D

Well, I've been gone for a few days. I was jotting my thoughts down on wordpad as they came to my head. So this is just basically me thinking out loud and alot of rambling, so much of it may not seem to make sense or be written well. Be ware:



I was watching TV. And they were talking about the idea of teleporting people from one place to another almost instantly. One guy proposed the idea that, what if we scanned the person, and took down coordinates of every single atom of their body, sent that information to somewhere else, and used that information to take atoms already at that loaction, and resassemble them the exact same way. The only problem though, is that this would only be a copy of you.

The thing that got my attention was the idea of duping someone. Would you actualy be able to create that exact human, just by putting the atoms in the exact same places? Would this give the person the exact same concsiousness and personality, even memories? If we could do this, could we just create a being with false memories and the personality we want it to have? This just furthers my belief in consciousness being seperate from the brain. If we can disasemble someone [take apart their atoms], send their atoms elsewhere then reassemble them, would they even be the same person? When the atoms are dissasembled, where is that person? Non-existant? Wouldn't that mean that once we reassemble the atoms, they are actualy brought back to life? Can we bring people back to life this way? I mean, wouldn't it techniquly still be them? Just with different atoms? If we use identicle atoms to reassemble a dead person, would it be the same person who died? He'd have the same personality, same memories, etc... That is, if the consciousness is part of the brain. It's mind boggeling. And what exactly is memory? Is it made of atoms? Is it a THING? How can a purley physical brain, store memories if memories are not made of atoms and are an actual thing?

Are thoughts made of atoms?