An artcle I found

At 59, James Young has spent almost a decade sharing his atheist beliefs with the public, driving every Wednesday morning from his home in Lithia to set up a tent at the University of South Florida Bull Market.

Even on the coldest morning, Young is there, ready to share, and sometimes debate, his views with anyone who will listen that there is, in fact, no such being as God.

"There are a lot of religious groups that set up tents there," said Young, a retired controls analyst. "It's important for these young people to know there is an alternative point of view."

What may surprise some of these students is that in his early adulthood, Young was an evangelical minister, preaching in churches, and even on street corners, all over Tampa.

The transformation from devoting his life to Christ to becoming an atheist was a slow one, but for Young, completely logical.

He was raised a Southern Baptist and at age 16 was introduced to a church that he called "a little more charismatic." He found great comfort in the church, socially and spiritually, and eventually identified with the Pentecostal movement.

"I got on fire for God," he said.

With Bible in hand, Young would often sit with friends comparing approaches to Christianity, he said. It was the first time that he recognized there might be different ways to interpret God's word.

Yet at the same time he was being taught that those who did not follow the Pentecostal approach to Christianity were doomed, and that caused him great conflict.

"My church was teaching that other denominations were going to hell because they didn't practice and follow Jesus' teaching the correct way," he said. "Well, what is the "correct' way?"

Both realizations brought Young to the conclusion that the Bible was not perfect, and that these inconsistencies made it difficult to be a complete believer.

Source: St Petersburg Times

Bless his spirit of personal integrity.

Good for him.

He finally saw the LIGHT!

The fact that people still believe even when comments such as the following are made:

Is a sad fact indeed. That is so obviously unreasonable, yet so many have blind faith. It is not only faith blind by the eyes, but all the senses, reason, and logic.

Good for this minister for finally seeing the truth.

In general fanaticle believers simply switch from one form of fantatisim to another,
Though of course there are exceptions, the fundementalist Christian turned atheist is fanaticle about leading people away from God and the atheist turned fundemtalist Christian is fanaticle about leading people to God.

Telling others that they should believe whatever the fantatic believes exactly as the fanatic believes or they are bad and messed up people being the real central message.

Or could it be this Ex-minister just wants the truth to be known.

Aye to that. Be it known that "Once a Fanatic, Always a Fanatic" is a flawed logic.

I think this is the common denominator for everyone who strongly identifies with a church. Comfort

That comment was past-tense. I only posted about a third of the article.

he was baptist, thats why, guess the false doctrine caught up with him

Wuzaah . Yes, Ive also found that its not uncommon for many deconverts to be baptist . Every denomination has something wrong with it, but baptists in general have a lot more to rethink.

Amen to that, I used to be Catholic lol and some how, I got into the occult?

I cant remember how in the world that happen but one thing lead to another and I got into black majick,which resulted in my best freinds demonic possession and well ya... not to mention the same day I got choked by a demon long story short, I couldnt fight them all, and knew there had to be another way

anyways logic would tell you if theres a demon then theres a angel and if theres a angel then theres a God and Christ and that would mean there is a devil etc.

Lame!

WTF?! Does he have proof there is no god, or is it lack of evidence that he believes no God exists. He says different people reading the same bible come to conflicting points of view, so the bible can't be accurate.

My belief in God has nothing to do with the Bible. All my major beliefs are from studying NDE's. Does this guy think the only evidence in God/Jesus is in the bible? The bible verifys some concepts but also conflicts. That doesn't mean I automatically discount the bible, I use it for support, but not my only source of evidence.

I would love to debate with this guy, I just don't have the time to debate religious concepts, I'm more interested in geopolitics and how they relate to religion.

How easy is it to be an atheist. All you have to do is open your eyes, and you don't see god, so the simple minded say it must not exist. I'm not saying use blind faith, just look deeper.

so scooby,

are you saying atheists are like owls; the more light you shine on them the poorer they see? I would not say it is any easier to be an atheist than to be anything else.

the bible wrong? say it is not so? how could the work of man be in error?

the same goes for NDE, it is still filtered by the human experience.
how can one be objective when they are the unwilling participant?

at least the fellow is consistant in his ferver, even if what he applies it to shifts. He is committed. He has seen the light!

I like your anology, but disagree with it.

I really think you would fit perfectly into the new age way of thinking, and the occult way of thinking.

For them (in general) they believe in a sence God is within, and that we are all capable of being god-like if we harness the required knowledge. The occult has it hidden away, while the new age seems to be pushing reletively the same thing (sort of, but not really) If that makes sense .

most atheists believe in themselves, and there own potential and not God. That's really what the new age is about. What do you think? Have you looked into the new age thinking or the occult, hyperactive?

Atheism is the ultimate ignorance in my mind, but there are those who think the same thing with what I believe.

I had never looked into the occult until a chance meeting with an old occultist. Our discussions revealed that my philosophical framework shared quite a bit with his "ancient knowledge". Proof in one form of how nothing is really new.

the occult rocks, hyper. of course, it helps to have second sight to perceive the results of one's ritual actions, but there are other ways to perceive them, which can be taught, in person, of course. i am projecting a form to you. see if you pick it up when you read this. i have emailed the solution to a witness. see if you pick up a color, a geometrical shape, a name, a nature; anything. anyone on here can try. the witness will confirm. come on, all you psychics, mystics and atheists. try it.

It sounds like you have yet to understand it or see the world from an Atheist point of view. It is true the same could be said of Christianity or other massive, organized religion, but talking in "Ultimates" or "Absolutes" will solve nothing. Why are you so aggressive towards this subject?

So does that mean I lack logic? Therefore, i'm stupid? Stupid for believing what I choose? Stupid for what my family celebrates? Stupid for the religion and traditions my ancestors brought from the Ukraine? Stupid for going on every day without worry of my obvious upcoming death? Stupid for believing a higher power of love and forgivenes is watching over me? Stupid for believing in a religion that promots me to do good to every one around me, even the people who say I lack logic? Thats stupid of me alright.

I repect him and others for believing in what he wants to and not just what I think. I however do not respect those who say I lack logic, no comment of his or any other anti-religous people will change my religion. Now that is not stupid.

Stupidity is subjective, and therefore different from one person to the next. What I was referring to was that it is illogical to follow a religion after it says something as mean and heartless as what was quoted. Undertaking illogical actions does not mean lack of overall logic. Maybe I should have re-worded my post.

Well good for him.........as for me I still believe in God but I will not MOCK him for doing this...goes to show you he may have stumbled on to something that I have yet to find....who am I to mock him....if I where christian I most likely would




WTF?? LOL
Tell me where is YOUR proof he exists? HA you have diddly squat proof just the same as that minister and even though I believe in God and I have no proof....I wouldn't go insulting those that are NB's because that itself is LAME

Conversely, there are hardcore Atheists who have a change of heart and become Christian. One person losing their Faith is not proof of anything.

Regards, PA

For all of you christians that worship your holy book....any one of you can have a change of heart........never say never....that minister didn't know it was going to happen so it can happen to anyone

Mmm yeah interesting...

I could give you many sources to full blown athiests finding God and saying that being a non believer was foolish... Pointless post.

Love ya's though!

Who was that directed at?

The original post- which was simply a article on a Ex Minister that found Athiesm...Its a pointless post because i could reply with a hardcore athiest that found God- which leaves little room for discussion after that..Its like saying "I used to have full cream milk- but now ive found skim- and its so much better for me"... What can anyone say to that besides "Good for you"?

Remember this post
But when you multiply that one person by thousands.....it adds up!

Please-my mother is 82, and still a die-hard atheist. She told me the other day about an encounter at a church white elephant sale: "The woman said 'god bless you' and I said it back to her. Who cares?" I said nothing, and chuckled along with her. She knows I am a practicing Occultist, and therefore believe in God. I was sort of the rebel in my family. My eldest niece, however, who was baptized catholic to please her father's family, had an orthodox midwife deliver her son. she had a formal circumcision, at which the midwife was "more jewish" than the rabbi. My mom attended, of course, but it meant nothing to her. I could say the same thing about xian ceremonies, but I will say that when I have been to a xian church, however, I feel like I am in contact with something I shouldn't deal with, as that energy is not a part of my life, and needs to not contaminate me. I would love to react like my mother does to any religious rite, but I can't. At xian ceremonies, it feels unclean. No, I don't care what your opinion is, I know and understand these things. If it works for you, god bless you,

But is still not proof of the non-existence of God. Remember, I tend to believe that the statistics saying 70% of America are Christians, is completely wrong, by about 60% (at the least). And Austrlaia's even less in my opinion - though on the whole, AUstrlaians (sydney-siders at least) that go to church have more biblica understanding than the average American church-goer. Of course, this is just my opinion, based on what I've heard about American Christians here on UM, and the basic stereotypes.

Regards, PA

Who said anything about the existence of God? The topic is "Ex-minister walks atheist path".


Getting a little testy

I am sure there are a few American Christians (here) that might think different about that.


And you talk of stereotyping!

So, why did you post this in the first place then?

No, not really.

I'm sure there are. I did say it was only my opinion. Many of the comments that I've heard from Christians from America, well, those issues would be non-issues in Australia, because many people here already have the Biblical teaching and understanding to answer it.

I mean, when you have people packed into "super churches" with thousands of members (something that doesn't really happen in Australia) and an imminently rich pastor, is the learning you getting from there as good as the learning you might be getting from a more theologically sound church. Not saying anything against these churches specifically, though the fact that the preacher wears a Rolex and an Armani suit speaks volume's on its own. Percentage wise, the knowledgeable people are probably the same. It's just that in Australia, only 2% go to church (and in my opinion, on the whole, quality churches), whereas 10% of the population in America go to church (and those, the theology is often a little iffy, again in my opinion). The percentage might still be the same, except that there are just way more Chrisitans in America, so the knowledgeable ones are hidden in the masses somewhere (after all, I have met knowledgeable American Christians).

But, as i said, this is just my opinion, and I do admit, very freely, that I am possibly (maybe even probably) wrong. My impression is not going to alter how I treat an American Christian, and it's not going to rock my world if I am proven wrong).

Regards, PA

It looks like your impression/opinion of Christians here in the States is not very good.

next, pa will say americans can't be real christians. wait, it is coming.

I see it happening too!

Well, all religion is the "ultimate" ignorance. There's one belief system that can always be true; Agnosticisim

A dissapointing response Gideon.



Good on her.



Contaminate you? That means you're a very weak person. If you cant tolerate other beliefs or let alone step into their buildings without a feeling of being "contaminated" then you are either insecure of your own beliefs or intolerable of others.



Your mother seems to be cool- layed back and thats all good. I have a elder family member like that- but yeah as you said im totally different than that- as are you.



I respect your response but dont accept it. Also it seems contradictory to a few things you've said before- a while back you said when at a church you can see "auras" or "heavenly lights" shining in through the window (which you didnt like to admit). If Gods energy still shun through that church then how in your right mind could you feel contaminated or "dirty" in a church? I dont consider Gods presence dirty at all- and thats what the basis is- its his presence- not where he is presented that matters.

And now Gideon the most disappointing part of your post...



It's quotes like the above which make me wish you never came back- no offence. You're at a discussion board- i'm not here to listen to you..Im here to "hear" you and for you to "hear" me- you're ego of being "above" me or anyone else because you "know and understand" these things is inexcusable.

God Bless You.

It's not just the fact that there isn't any physical God roaming the streets answering prayers and healing people, it's the flawed logic behind it. As I've said before, The thought of an all-loving God that answers prayers, watches over you, helps you through rough times, and will assure you a happy life after death can be a comforting thing for anybody. I would know, I was once a Catholic.
You have to open your mind and realize that these are all make-believe allegations to bring relief to those who fear death and that mere thought of being alone.

no ego involved. i see what i see. i am simply reporting my perceptions. Yes I have seen things in churches that were beautiful, but it is not the correct energy for me. is that clearer? I am not here to be judged, that's all. no insult intended.It comes from God, but the filter is different. all religions come from the same god, but there are different filters. Instead of asking what I meant, you attacked. I forgive you. Either I was not clear, or you are having a bad day, or both.no human being should look down at another. I don't have the power to do that, either.

I was going to kill myself about three years ago. I didn't have time for god, and didn't feel he loved me at all if he existed. The night before I was going to commit suicide, I found a website about near death experiances where people die leave there body and expericance the spiritual world. I read dozens of accounts of suicides who had to go back into there body and come back to life, because it was not there time to die, some had the option of going back, others were forced. I basically got slapped in the face with evidence that consiousness continued after death, and I wanted to no longer exist, which is why I planned to kill myself. I found out if I killed myself, I would be making a huge mistake, and it would have ramifications beyond comprehension.

I now accept there is a god, and deal with it the best I can. I'm glad I found out before I killed myself, and I hope you find out before you die. Life continues after death of the physical body. And yes, there is a God.

I don't know much about OBE's, but nobody can jump to conclusions when it comes to seeing the spiritual world, then coming back. For all we know, that experience could have been somewhat like a dream or some frantic thought before one enters the dieing stage.
Not to make this an 'experiences' topic, but I too was suffering from severe depression last March, and would lay in my bed for hours thinking of ways to end it all without my family really caring. I can't really say what brought me out of that state, but it wasn't the work of god and the fear of going to Hell (another manmade fairytale claim).

And what type of suicide are you talking about here? Hate to burst your bubble but if someone puts a shotgun to their head and blasts their brains onto a wall they're not coming back. even if it isn't their time to go.

Its strange. You consider atheism the ultimate ignorance. I ocnsider having blind faith in a very old tale book and some "non-proved" alucination experiences ignorance. Like the one that rule Europe´s dark ages.

Of course its not very good Zandore LOL only if you are an aussie then its good to be a real christian you must move to Australia like they know best eh? LOL

Blind faith is correct LOL people like that can't see past the nose on their face

Hyepractive,

How can anything truly be objective, if everything is filtered by human experience? Is there something as truly objective reality?

On the flip side, if conciousness creates reality actively every second, wouldn't all reality be objective? (discussing this a bit here)

I completely respect your beliefs and accept them as valid, Scooby Snack, and although I am no all-seeing objective Judge, there is one thing I do know.

What I do know is that closed-minded, righteous and impudent religions cause more deaths of those following other religions than people they save from death through humanitarianism or conversion combined. It seems that the answer is not to find a religion that reaches out and encourages all to join [Sometimes forcefully] or prove the existance of any being that cannot be verified by solipsistic observations, but rather finding yourself and nothing more. Your true self, not what someone says you are or what doctrine writes you are, but what you really are inside.

Self-discovery is the final light in a world suffering from moral and spiritual pestilence.

You know hyper that slamming NDE's is going to get a response from me..

Have you read the book "The Holographic Universe" yet?

but the true self is god.

Prboably a miscommunication- you know we have similar beliefs...So long as we get to share them is whats most important. The only part that threw me off was that "I dont care about your opinion"...but ah well- lets move passed that.

It won't happen, don't worry. I just feel they (American churches) don't have quite as solid theological base as we do in Sydney. Every Christian I have met outside of Sydney who has come and seen Sydney churches, they agree with me, by the way. People from other Australian States, people from overseas - they have all said the same about Sydney.

I'm not saying Christianity is non-existent in America. As I've said, I've met very knowledgeable and intelligent American Christians. But unfortunately, it is the ignorant ones I meet more often.

And afterall, I have admitted that I very possibly could be wrong!!!!!

Regards, PA