Quran: The Holy Book of Islam
The name Koran, or better Qur'an, from the Arabic stem Qara'a, "to read", "to recite", means the "Reading", the "Recitation", i.e. the "Book", par excellence. It is also called -- to select a few of many titles -- "Alkitab" (The Book), "Furquan" ("liberation", "deliverance", of the revelation), "Kitab-ul-lah" (Book of God), "Al-tanzil" (The Revelation). It consists of one hundred and fourteen suras or chapters, some being almost as long as the Book of Genesis, others consisting of but two or three sentences. It is smaller than the New Testament, and in its present form has no chronological order or logical sequence.

Say: "If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur'an,they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support.Qur'an 17;88
God Most Gracious! It is He Who has taught the Qur'an. He has created man: He has taught him speech (and intelligence). Qur'an 55;1,2,3,4
And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? Qur'an 54;17
Alif. Lam. Ra. (This is) a Scripture which We have revealed unto thee (Muhammad) that thereby thou mayst bring forth mankind from darkness into light, by the permission of their Lord, unto the path of the Mighty, the Owner of Praise.Qur'an 14:1
O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QUR'AN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you

Now what is the Bible?

Bible - The holy book of a christian that comes in two parts the OT and the NT...preaching the word of God

Why anyone can get confused and think that their bible is the one and only true book is beyond me

Oh joy, a thread dedicated to my argument with BM

I believe the Bible is the word of God. I do not believe the Koran is the word of God. When it comes down to it, this is because of Faith. Faith is a silly little thing. It's not something that can be scientifically explained, or proved beyond doubt. LIke I'm fond of saying, Faith - if you don't have it, it can't be explained, if you do have it, there's no need to explain it.

But neither does that mean it is a leap of Faith, something that might not be true. To me, I believe it to be true and accurate.

Do I have doubts? Sometimes. Do I question it? All the time. Do I believe it? You betcha.

Just my thoughts.

Regards, PA

Just because YOU don't believe it...doesnt mean it is not the word of GOD...tell that to those that follow the Koran PA

It is ignorant to tell them their beliefs are not the word of God

So your faith is right ut the islamic faith is not ?? LOL how can you prove it? ohhh wait you cant...oooppssss

I didn't say I could prove it. I know I can't prove it. I know it's not a proveable thing. I have my belief and that's enough for me. If it ever happens (I can't see that it will at the moment, but let's just say "if") that I come to the place where I do not see the Bible as truth, then my life outlook will change.

Until that day though, all I have is what is in my heart. And that is what I will live by. To do otherwise, I would not be true to myself.

Regards, PA

Who knows what may happen...you might take up another religion maybe one that you wont get bashed for (and that wasnt sarcastic btw) or I might take up religion again or not...we can say NEVER

Sheri might become a christian LOL wow I can almost pic her new screen name for UM - Holy_Sheri

PA you may well meet some nice girl and want to settle down and you both may take intrest in another faith but whatever you chose (thats if you do) lets hope its one that you dont get bashed for

The Koran is to the nt as the nt is to the hebrew scriptures or the book of mormon is to the Koran.

There are amazing parallels in the East. Siddharta Gautama did to Hinduism about the same that Yeshu ben Yosef did to Judiasm. Of course, both of them were deified by later followers. The schism between Mahayana and Theravada Buddhism is very similiar to that of the Xian church after the advent of Protestantism. And the Japanese have a thing called Nichiren which is very similiar to Islam, Mormonism and born-again xianity at the same time. Then there are overlaps. The Sikhs believe in Buddha and Mohammed, and Allah, and reincarnation, all at the same time.

Can I interject another question into this thread?

Is Allah the same god as the God of the Bible? Do Muslims believe Allah to be the same as the God of the Jews or that the God of the Jews is not god?

Most Definetely so even if PA dies a Christian- "Allah" in the Muslim term would still likely grant him heaven for simply being a "believer". The Christian stance is a bit stronger and tough and short of variety- which is why i just think the Abrahamic God is one. Jesus is great and Muslims deeply love, respect Jesus- believe in his miracles and virgin birth- they recognize Jesus- love him- adore him- and God would still grant them hell cause the may have the message a little wrong? Thats kinda odd in my opinion.

The Quran sums it up in this quote of which i agree with.

Do not argue with the people of the scripture (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) except in the nicest possible manner—unless they transgress—and say, "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is one and the same; to Him we are submitters." (29:46)

Yes they are all the same...Infact if u already didn't knew this Jesus and Moses were the messengers of Allah (or god if u prefer)....
try this link http://www.al-islam.org/quran/ and try searching for "People of the Book"(Jews and Christians)

Jews, Muslims Christians and Zoroasters all share the same Yahweh/Allah/God/Ahura Mazda
They are all monotheistic religion and therefore they also need to share each others prophets.

If Im correct; China also has a monotheistic religion, Taoism. But Im not sure how they view the Abrahamic religions.

Yes...what ramster said *whispers psssst pass that on to PA*

So back to the original topic by BM.

Then there are two correct texts that speak of the same God. Great! Now there should be no need for further conflict on this planet!


Right?!?!

Then why do Muslims not obey the ten commandments?

Why when God said, "Thou shalt not kill"...do the Muslims kill in the name of God?

Because it is "You shall not murder"

Cuz they aint following the real version of the quarn thats why


Well I agree with you Watzel but unfortunatley there will never be peace.........lets say for arguments sake we where ALL the same , meaning we all had the same religion, prayed to the same God...there would still be holy wars

Take the Zoroastrism out of there, no Jew, Muslim or Christian would say he shares a prophet with the Zoroasters. And no one would say Allah, God or Adonay Yhwh is the same as Ahura Mazda.

Muslim View of the Ten Commandments
Religious Issues in the Ten Commandments

Islam does not accept the absolute authority of the Bible, teaching that it has become corrupted over the years, and therefore it does not accept the authority of the listing of the Ten Commandments that appears in the Bible. Islam does, however, accept the status of both Moses and Jesus as prophets, which means that the commandments are not completely ignored, either.

One verse in the Quran makes what is probably a very general reference to the Ten Commandments:

"And We ordained laws for him in the tablets in all matters, both commanding and explaining all things, (and said): 'Take and hold these with firmness, and enjoin thy people to hold fast by the best in the precepts'..." 007.145

There is also a section of the Quran where several commands very similar to the Ten Commandments can be found:
Say, come, I will recite what God has made a sacred duty for you: Ascribe nothing as equal with God;
Be good to your parents;
You shall not kill your children on a plea of want; we provide sustenance for you and for them;



(sic)Thus, while Islam doesn’t exactly have its own "Ten Commandments," it does have its own versions of many of the basic prohibitions given in the Ten Commandments. Because they accept the Bible as an earlier revelation of God they don’t object to things like displays of the commandments in public spaces. At the same time, though, they aren’t likely to see such displays as a religious duty or necessity because as described above they don’t accept the absolute authority of the Bible.

(Continued @ link)

How can Islam view Moses as a prophet and reject the Ten Commandments...How can Islam claim both God and Allah?

I say that Allah is not the God of Israel...rather Allah is the great Satan of the Bible.

I will state for the obviously less-educated here, that "Allah" is Arabic for the Hebrew word "El", which btw, means "God". I think that Yeshu is a more logical candidate for son of satan. After all, who initiated him in the desert, after which he declared "I and my father are one." It would make a lot of sense, especially considering the xian persecution of the Jews (God's chosen people, after all), that Yeshu is really Satan, or at least his son.

Then how can Allah be against himself? If Fundamentalist Islam views Christians and Jews as infidels...then how can Allah be the same as God? How can God fight against himself?

Its not like they have a choice man, Zoroaster the one who started monotheistic religions. Most Muslims, Chirstians and Jews dont even know what and who zoroasters are, let alone see Zoroaster as a prophet. But in the reality he is supposed to be a propet to them all aswell, in fact he is the first prophet.

I got it, don't worry. I don't agree with that assessment, but I'll let let it slide

If I recall rightly, there's a passage in the Koran about Christians being the worst sort of non-believer because they claim to worship the same God as the Muslims do, but they deify Jesus, raising a man to the level of God - an act punishable by death, I believe.

Regards, PA

PA,

from my academic studies of the the monotheistics what you have said is true, although I don't recall any specific scripture stating so in the Koran.

Maybe they should all kill themselves then since they have deified Muhammed...oh wait, never mind...they are all killing themselves....

Joc their beleifs are killing them much like christianity.... people will often die to be right.....

I don't really know all that many Christians who blow themselves up.

well, if they blew themselves up there wouldn't be much left to know...

sorry, i could not resist.

Christians don't tend to explode in north america since they already have the advantage. It is the underdog that with no other disposal at his means that resorts to self-detonation.

....but...haven't the Muslims deified Muhammed....what about the cartoon thing....

well, not by the koran, but other writings Muhammad is not to be depicted in any way/shape/form to prevent people idolizing him.

I don't think that protesting his being depicted is deifying him.

I do question the entire nonsense of the protests though. I can appreciate how a muslem may be "offended" by the drawings, but what should be considered violations of the religion in response to "violations of second hand teachings of the religion" to me demonstrates how people are more under the control of the religious "elders" that are using the cartoons for their own political purposes than anything else.

Ohh for crying out loud PA go and read the REAL quran and what it actually stands for before you make suck statements.....I have explained this already to another member on this same topic....care to scroll back and read?

Bec is he still claiming the Qu'ran isn't a bible??? Muslim isn't a religon???

YUP poor misguieded PA....tut tut ...although when I read the debate that part cracked me up

"If I recall rightly, there's a passage in the Koran about Christians being the worst sort of non-believer because they claim to worship the same God as the Muslims do, but they deify Jesus, raising a man to the level of God - an act punishable by death, I believe."

I dont think Ive seen this Verse in the Quran. Every person who worships a Higher Power, worships the same God that Muslims do. This is because there is the concept that there is ONE. Take the parable of a tree and its roots. The roots are religions, far apart, different shapes and reaching into different areas of the Earth. However, they connect back to one tree.
It is much like this.

Regards,
A-A

Anyone who takes every verse of any religious book literally is crazy. Every religious book has soom weird, crazy stuff in there that isn't realistic or representative of our time.

The Quran and the Bible are the same in that they are works of fiction.

They are mirrors of each other the bible and the Qu'ran, Bec's ma you just know your bibles better huh??? namaste Sheri

I learn every day but dont let it guide you into thinking BM will convert...the words convert and BM dont mix actually its a swear word so is saying BM is religious

Um, fiction.

Tell me something I don't know Rykster lol

Firstly, I never said anything about Islam not being a religion.

But yes, I am still claiming the Koran is not a Bible. I will say it loud and clear - THE KORAN IS NOT A BIBLE.

Bible. Derived through Latin from the Greek, biblia ('books'), come to refer to the books which are acknowledged as canonical by the Christian church. The earliest Chrisitan use of ta biblia ('the books') in this sense is said to be circa AD 150
- quoted from NBC 21st Century edition, page 135

I stand by my previous statement, by virtue of the Koran only being one book, written by one man, it cannot be a Bible.

Regards, PA

I'm sure you did. Unfortunately, that doesn't take away from the fact that the Koran is not a Bible (see above for details).

Regards, PA

Thats the "Fantastic" attitude that tags along with Islamaphobia...Which only causes troubles. Allah is the God of Israel. "Allah" just means "God". God is one- there is one God according to all 3 main faiths- so how could Allah (God) be different than "God" (which is just Allah translated in English).



The moderate Muslim opinion isnt that Jews and Christians are infidels- Islam only regards violence with those that attack their religion. The Quran speaks highly of Righteous Christians and Jews- the infidels they refer to (Christians / Jews) are no different than the Islamic hypocrites / Infidels that the Quran refers to. It says theres evil Christians...Jews and even their own sort..Muslims. So its not discriminate in that view.



The general and most important thing about that is that any righteous Christian (Like yourself PA ) will have his reward in the end with his lord. The Quran simply states that Righteous Christians and Jews shall have no grief or fear for they are amongst the highest ranks of any good muslim. Islam says only those that take their religion to extreme and worship idols (which even Christians arent meant to do) are the ones that may be punished...Or those who associate God with partners- but most Christians agree the trinity concept is still "one God". The Quran disagrees that those that believe Jesus was God himself- and again thats a fair minority of Christians?



JOC your comments are pretty harsh- you make it sound like every muslim blows himself up. The people that are blowing themselves up are doing it mainly in the same places. Israel. Its war. All you hear from the media are the arabs blowing themselves up but never the atrocities committed from the other side. Go read on about the Israeli war with Lebanon and the current war on the "occupation" of the Gaza strip- The Palestinians are getting killed every day and no one ever hears about it- once theres a suicide bombing in Tel Aviv - oh look another crazy muslim blew himself up. Keep being a sheep to media and this phobia of Islam will just grow and its a sad way to view the world.



Well PA is right..The Quran isnt really a Bible. The Quran states its the "final chapter" of the Abrahamic holy books. It claims there was the Torah- the Gospel and the Quran to complete the collection. I dont know what to believe in terms of that- but the Quran refers to many passages of Jesus infact Jesus is mentioned almost 100 times where as their own prophet Mohammad is mentioned 25 or so times...Its interesting to read some of Jesus teachings and comments mentioned in the Quran. It talks so highly of him. Of course like in the Bible.

For crying out loud PA is there no end to your ignorance?? how many times must you be told that the KORAN is the Islamic holy book....just in the same way your holy book is KNOWN as the bible what part of that cant you understand PA? I have spelt it out to you..would you like a pic drawn? grab a dictionary PA and once again look up BOTH words...and both holy book mostly mirror eachother and guess what PA you may not like this next part but they pray to the SAME God as you...hmm fancy that... I seriously think you are doing this just to get an argument going

In lamens terms PA ..the word bible is just a name given for your holy book......the word Koran is another name given for the Islamic holy book...do a lil research if you still dont get it

THanks for the response ramster, very enlightening

That asid:

BM, I'm not trying to start an argument. Nor am I denying that the Koran is the Muslim Holy Book, just as the BIble is the Christians Holy Book. What I am denying is that the Koran is a Bible. It is not in any way, etymologically speaking, a Bible.

You keep telling me to do a lil research. Well, I did. I posted to you the original Greek/Latin word for Bible - biblia, and it's use for the Bible - ta biblia - which translates literally as 'the books'. THis phrase has on its own has no specific religious affiliations, it means exactly what it says it means. An encyclopaedia is a collection of books, therefore it also is a Bible.

So, I hope no offense is taken by this, but may be it is you who needs to do a lil research.

Regards, PA

wow Great post my friend

Already did PA and the word bible is just the name given to your holy book......like Koran is the name given to the Islamic holy book

BM - are you even reading my posts? What does ta biblia mean?

For the last time here is what the dictionary says...

Koran (noun)
Kaw raan , Ka raan
or Qur `an

Islamic holy book
The sacred text of Islam
Believed by Muslims to
Record the revelations of
God to Muhammad

Bible (noun)
Bible [bib`l}
Christian holy book
the sacred book of the
Christian religion

Gee its pretty clear

PA your word is not found in the english dictionary but - biblical(adjective) relating to the Bible, or written about in the Bible

For the last time, I am not denying that the Koran is a Holy Book. It is the Muslim's sacred text. I agree. that is not the issue. The issue is that the Koran cannot be called a Bible. So again I ask, what does ta biblia, the phrase we get "the Bible" from, mean?

You are using the dictionary. The dictionary gives the popular meaning of the term. However, it's root has nothing to do with Holy Book. For example, if you look at the word "prevent" in the dictionary, it will tell you something you do to stop something from happening. 500 years ago, prevent meant the opposite: pre-event, something you do before an event to help it along.

It's clear, BM, that the Koran is not a Bible. It is a sacred text, but that is not the issue. Geez, everyone else except you and Sheri seem to agree with me. Can you not see that the Koran is not a Bible?

Pa stop , the Qu'ran is the holy book to the muslims and the holy bible is the sacred text to christians, the Bhagdavad Gita is the sacred text (lengthy poem to the hindu's), Pali Canon for the Indian philosophy, and so on You are being sillyyou know what she is saying.....Namasate