That one applies to me. Including myself, there were 3 people.

I wasn't falling asleep. I don't get tired untill 8AM.

Ever heard of mass hallucination. Just kidding.

Looks like we have folks here that believe science can account for anything. That's an entirely workable mindset. Nothing wrong with that. Some of us have knowledge that show deficiencies in that belief with regard to reality.

Science has an answer for everything? Not in the slightest!

However, have you ever examined why some psychological disorders that are prevailant in Japan have no occurance in North America (as one example)? When you understand why this occurs, you will understand much more about "seeing ghosts" than you currently do.

Glad the door is open at least a crack.

No. I'm not interested in psychological disorders at this point.

Me thinks this presuposes that "seeing ghosts" is a psycological disorder.

no, it is about understanding what "is" a disorder. A "disorder" is defined by a society, and "ghosts" are defined by a society.

It is in merely accepting what social folklore has established "ghosts" to be that one has closed themselves off to the possibilities of finding real understanding.

How do you explain things such as "Mothman" for instance? He's been seen all around the world. This is a well known figure that is yet to be explained. You can't tell me that these thing don't exist when hundreds of people have reported these sightings before a tragedy occurs. Is it just coincidence?

Listen up...it wont matter look see if any of you where playig poker while whistling DIXIE and turn around and saw a casper lol people will still try and say you imagined it.......the only ones that will believe you are those that have seen one themselves And once more if you did have your cam cell phone with you and took a pic or two and posted them...have a guess how long it would take the ding dongs to come up with --- "its a FAKE PIC"!!!!!

Its much easier to try and analyze the living crap out of it but it's not as easy to explain what you saw

mothmen.

well there is one commonality, isn't there? the human.

What?

I'm with you on all of that. As I posted before, the only thing I know about ghosts is that people see 'em whatever 'em is.

My position is that "science" is not equipped to fully explain these phenomena. If the people that see 'em can't accept those explanations maybe there is no correct explanation at this time.

And for that I thank you

Tell me something Hyper

Since you are the skeptical one on the topic of ghosts and you think there are other reasons, explainations as to why people may have seen ghosts, well I want to ask you this....How would you react if you saw a ghost in front of you and it was not a glimpe of a shaddow or anything and it stood there for quite some time...would you try and put it down to an illusion of some kind?

Nothing can explain the paranormal and I mean nothing...but people like yourself will try and put it all down to other explainations, rather than actually face the fact they have actually seen something

Explain this then if you will....My late grandmother was sitting having her dinner one night and right next to her was one of her nephews who was a priest and had been on a trip to Africa. Thing is she hardly spoke to her nephew, cuz he lived so far away and she came from such a huge family it was hard to keep up with everyone. She asked him how didhe get in, as she never heard the door open...he smiled at her and after talking to her he said goodbye.
She thought he was saying goodbye as he was heading back to Africa again......the following day she recieved a letter from her sister saying he was killed while staying in Africa over a week ago and invited her to the funeral. This shocked her as she had just spoken to him the night before....my grandmother was a skeptic and used to tell us there was no such things as ghosts, then she told us that story and she never lies to us.

The things is she wasn't even thinking about her nephew at all like I said they where rather distant...so tell me hyper did she just imagine it? I seriously don't think she did...and she wasn't dreaming either she was having dinner when this happened...and the clincher was my grandfather could hear voices in the dinning room at the time when he was in the next room and thought nothing of it...so he too heard her nephews voice...so again please explain?

I could give you a few hypothetical explanations for such a scenario. The key is that they are hypothectical at this stage.

But just to stay on your good side, I will just say your grandparents got into the magic mushrooms. (now before you go for my nuts again, remember that ancient cultures used mushrooms to enhance their spiritual awareness and open up the pathways of interconnectedness.)

Gee Hyper I was hoping for a sensible answer but nevermind perhaps you don't have one

FYI my granparents wernt on the magic mushrooms

I would say if scientists were truly objective, they should look for "God energy" and see whether it exists or not.

Thats impossible G....sorry mate but it is

and what would you consider sensible?

usually, people find things "sensible" when they easily fit into their existing constructs.

I gave you a hint to one possible answer, but you missed it!
If ancients used mushrooms to enhance their abilities to experience various interconnects,
and these interconnects are real (and not hallucinations),
then it is very possible for anybody to contact anybody else,
through what you may ask.
There are a few hypothesized frameworks which describe how such connections would occur.
I am hesitant to take this thread in such a direction because last time i engaged in such talk (with zero) I got nowhere other than PMs asking me why I bother trying.

FUN STUFF!!!!

Graham Hancock just recently wrote an excellent book on the subject called: Supernatural

There is alot interesting research going on in this field. Human conciousness itself is highly elusive and difficult to track down. Hyper is right, there are many different possible explanations for seeing 'ghosts'.

I bleieve It's possible too see a 4th dimensional entity but the 4th dimension is also highly succeptible to your own personal hallucinations also. Deciphering whether something has a valid energitic existence on its own independent of your conciousness can be a difficult task to ascertain. When it comes to 4th dimensional energy two people could be looking at the exact same thing, yet interpret it totally different, and actually see different things, but usually related.




I know you have an extensive background in studying psychological disorders, and I would like to know where I can find out more about these Japan Ghosts.

All you said was you could give hypothedical explainations the key is that they are hypothectical at this stage. and then you thow one of the easiest explainations like magic mushrooms...im surprised you did throw in alcohol while you where at it...but anyway...like you said HYPOTHEDICAL but that don't make it SO..just because people have taken magic mushrooms doesnt mean EVERYONE did...for startes my granfather had a bad heart and I don't think taking drugs like that would help matters

Now getting back to your 'hypothedical' explainations meaning plural, and you only gave ONE......you didn't give me much to go on but if magic mushrooms is all you can think of fair enough but I disagree with you there...the REAL reason is Hype is that you CAN'T explain it...how can you?? If science can't (key word can't) explain it then what makes you think you can? Well you can try but thats it and thats all you can do but you will never be able to find the right answer!!!!!key word there is never!

As for those who pm's you saying not to bother explaining to Zero...they don't care how anyone feels about what they saw....see I am different to them...even if I don't believe in something...I still like to hear people out and try and understand them...im far from BIAS..although I have been known to lean more to the NB's more so than the christians actually you could say 99% of the time I do...but the odd time when I have read someones post...I at least try and understand them...it shows my decent side

Magic mushrooms, and alcohol are valid ways of gaining acess to be able too see in the 4th dimension. The book I recommended above makes some of that very clear.

True Story: There was a lady who had had been at an energy workshop all day where you use flowers to deal with negative energies surrounding a persons chakras and such. After the workshop she went into a mall where a man obviously drunk remarked: "What wonderful flowers you have floating around you." Needles to say the lady was quite shocked that someone could actually see them!

Tell me about it

LOL, artymoon.

Let me re-phrase, before I get myself into trouble.

"Magic mushrooms, and alcohol can be valid ways of gaining acess to be able too see in the 4th dimension."

I'm not arguing that they arent...what I am saying is my grandparents didn't take them and...its a cheap explaination to hand out just because one heard and one saw a ghost....I mean COME ON!!!...What if a crowd of people saw a ghost all at the same time........well ohh they where all high as a kite thats it come on people you can do better than that LOL

I think you're doing that yourself. You don't think ghosts exist, you think it's your imagination, so you automatically think we were halucinating or something of the sort, because that fits in your existing constructs. I'm sure you don't find it sensible that we actualy did see a ghost.

To many people have seen 'ghosts' for it be unbelievable. I think its a slight glimpse into another dimension.

Ya know what....think about how this all works....take me for example...I think the bible is a myth right? and yet I would do exactly what hyper does and draw up other lil explainations as to how things are...but I tend to forget that the contents of the bible is what others will believe no matter what...yet I have sat countless times over and over again arguing the points given...WHY??? because like Hyper I don't believe.....see what I am trying to explain here? BUT...if I took more time and tried to understand a lil more then I could come to some sort of reasoning and must admit when it comes to the bible I haven't.....again it's all because I DON'T BELIEVE...therefore I am not considerate towards those that do believe

EVERYTHING that is discussed on this very board...are ALL things that none of us can explain...anyone that says likewise is talking cobblers


Ya know whats funny about thesecheap explainations such as magic mushrooms...I was only 9 years old and back then I never even heard of such a thing...nor did I drink ect.........guess what??? later on in life when I began to drink a lot ect I never hallucinated anything strange ( well appart from when alcohol made guys look better ) ...even when I was high on my meds that where given for sever migraines that made me happy...and then drowsy...I STILL havent hallucinated...

Hmmm sounds reasonable but what I had was not a slight glimpse...I only wish it was

Alchohol will make anyway look better. One night I refused to get drunk because....

A girl..... AND HER BROTHER, both said I was hot. >.>

I had to be careful that night.

Anyway, I guess you're right. Everyone on these boards, wether they admit it or not, have a hard time looking at it from the other side of the arguements, and will always try to deny anything till the very end.

Oh yeah, the old lady. Was it a lady's name on the headstone when you placed the rock
back?

how quickly we forget, zero!

in our last conversation on the topic of "ghosts" i was presenting you with possible explanations of what they are. Not ever in that conversation did I say that there was not something responsible for the perception. Look carefully and show me where I have ever said "ghosts don't exist". I have said they are not what you think they are, but not that there is nothing beyond the perceptual range most people experience most of the time.

to BM, do you want references to possible explanations of what "ghosts" are?

Well I don't remember that old conversation. Anyway, go ahead and post up all these other explainations. Let's see if they're backed up anymore than spirits are.

Good question Arty but I don't recall looking at the names on the headstone...I couldn't put them back quick enough and I soon bolted out of there LOL and was early for school that day...for once

Backed up more than spirits? You mean have any real backing at all?

Start with a look at Morphogentic Fields (we will start easy).

Yea sure thing Hyper why not eh?? I am willing to see this


LMAO
Tell me about it though...when I was out for the night and drank too much...I dated too many butt ugly guys and the alcohol made them look HOT...and when the lights came on at the end of the night and everyone was leaving the night club...thats when I began to sober up and go like----> WTF? YIKES!!have I done noooooooooooooooooooooo...I need a fast exit hide me somebody QUICK...then call for one of my friend to go and pick up my jacket in the cloakroom so I could put it over my head and sneak past the guy Iw was with and bolt out of there....then wake up next day and tell myself it was a dream a bad one too...I am giving up the drink...no more drink for me...the following week where was BM??? at the bar telling the bar man to make it a double and make it snappy!!! I was a glutten for punishment

So now when I say a guy is HOT I try and remember...did I have a drink or two? LOL

Riiiiiiiight. That's hypothetical, and I doubt you have any proof/evidence that this ever produced an image of a dead person!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphogenetic_field



Was that even what you were talking about? O_o

Google made me correct the spelling and I found this page.

You must of been drinkin' when you saw my pic
Man, and I thought I was hot

you need to go more indepth than the wiki page, zero.

the idea is that information is maintained in "fields" that can be accessed by those tuned to said fields.

in the case of a "ghost", it is one accessing the information of the dead person from the field that consists of the dead person because they are "tuned" to it.

ohh dear I dropped myself in it ok Arty you caught me out in a drunken lie...you can now report me to the forum police...i'll go quietly

NOOO ya big yahoo LOL I don't drink when I am at home looking after my baby LOL and when I saw your pic at the time I was looking after Becky..and I wasn't drinking...I wouldn't do that when I am with my kid...I would drink a few if my BF was there LOL he could keep an eye on her...then i'll go and look at your pic again and say OMG you is HOT..did I say this before...see I am a postaholic and I forget see??

Unlike Zero he looked at my pics and said...I look plastic

So, any proof/evidence this has ever happened? Ever happened in a lab and been verified by scientists?

I haven't seen your pics. Is that you as your personal photo? If so *arty's wife peering in the distance*

The one in my profile is just me on a crappy webcam

note that I said all the proposals are hypothetical, i.e. they have not been proven but are or will be tested should funding allow and interest is present. Do not forget the politics of science. There is not a large interest in finding the truth behind apparitions.

BM, I also said you were hot and called you something that the mods got mad at me for.

So don't get too upset.

You're beautiful *arty's wife smacks him*

Ok, so... next?


Sidenote: There should be more interest. This may be one of the biggest new discoveries science will ever make. They need to look more into this. But no, they're too stuck on getting off of this damn planet[space].

I thought the mainstream had ridiculed Sheldrake. His theories could explain just about every type of psi known.

Well, here's one of those times I right it down to something natural.



This happened just a few minutes ago. I heard a noise in the living room while sitting in the kitchen just now eating. I heard glass shatter, so I figured maybe someone was trying to break in [we live somewhat in the ghetto]. I rushed to get my dad, we both pulled our knives out and walked slowly into the room and hit the light on. What do we find? One of our lamps just fell off the table it was on and broke. No one was in the room and I was the only one up. But I remembered putting 2 picture frames on the table with the lamp, and the table is quite small. Even though I put the frames there HOURS ago, I still think it's probably the reason. Might have been leaning on the lamp or something.

Another example: This use to happen alot untill we changed our lock. Sometimes, our bathroom door would lock from the inside with no one in. This would happen at least twice a week. I put it down to slamming of the door swinging the lock closed [it was an old time lock].

Hyper can you gp into this alittle more are you saying the dead person leaves a print of sorts for lack of a bettter on the spot word?

I've somewhat entertained this as apossible explination but haven't found much reading material on it ...very interesting Namaste sheri

Lets say for arguments sake that science has been able to prove that the paranormal does in fact exist...What then? will skeptics still disagree with actual fact? IMO yes but only out of ignorance