It would really help if someone could link a peer reviewed scientific journal or report that has any form of scientific enquiry on the nature of paranormal or psychic phenomenon. It would really clear up the argument and settle this once and for all.

If it has not been discovered....then how can there be an explanation for it let alone a scientific explanation?


That can be to religion.


Bubble bursting time.....Zero that link is just someones opinion!

I've read articles about the topic in lots of scientific magazines here at college which were citing research on paranormal/psychic sorts of stuff. They were periodicals, though, and I'm not about to go to the fifth underground floor of the library here looking for them! (cringes)

Another person who didn't read the book. ^___^


You know what I mean by "there is an explaination". I mean that there can be one. Just not discovered yet. Golly Gee wiz, man.




-Does the jolly rancher dance-

Staeted to but realised it was just someones opinion.



Just as the man in the moon is made of green cheese.

It's not only opinions, it gives references. If you read what's on the website, that's not what's in the book. The book speaks of investigations and studies done by scientists in a laboratory invrionment. You'd have known that if you actualy read the book.

i urge my fellow skeptics to not bother showing this guy up, as to anyone of reasonable mind the flaws in his reasoning (or indeed total lack of) are self evident

effort is put to better use on peopel who are able to logically follw points and principles, and do not seem to talk arbitrarily about subjectss with little to no logical follow through.

in summary this guy is a waste of effort!

In summary, you can't type. And you don't even know how to use spell checker.

You refuse to read a book, then you try to refute this book and pretend it's nothing of importance on the subject. Then you talk down on me? Hah, laughable. I won't even waste my time with you. You use the same tactics every other closed minded skeptic uses. "You didn't see what you thought you did"... Yeah, tell me that right after I watch my friend rob your car and then tell you what I saw.

Read the book or hush up. I'm out.

lol i wish you actually knew who i was.

so you must actually think david copperfield can fly lol.

i am actually glad that your type of thinking while a crime will also be your punishment. when life hands you a lemon and with the ability to reason you have demonstraed, there will be many lemons, eventually god willng you might adopt a different attitude.

Please. No one does. I only believe in ghosts. I don't believe in Psi, or telekenisis quite yet. I'd need more evidence.


Eat your damn lemons.

-does the bottomless girl dance-

what i find weird is people who call themselves xians not believing in paranormal. How does God hear silent prayers?

He keeps us amused!

Between the three personalities I think he (God) has a good chance of at least one of the hearing

LOL...only when I am bored...like Zandore says..he does keep us amused...known as the Zero effect lol

Yeah, yeah. Amuse yourselves by patting eachother on the back. You're amusing me as well.


Gideon, I do believe in the paranormal.

I'm not even a strong Christian. I find myself more spiritual. I believe in an afterlife and some form of God a tad more than the Christian God. I'm just leaning back and forth.

But then again.... things I don't talk about on these forums keep my faith =P

my favorite is when they say it must a demon if it is not the holy spirit.

That is a grossly incorrect statement.
Studies are still being done in many areas.
One of the more blatantly obvious examples for a "gap" in science is the proven ability of the human mind to imprint visual images on photographic film.
Science is clueless as to how this is done, but they have not given up on trying to figure it out.

it is by no means an incorrect statement.

it is all relative to what you consider paranormal, my specific examples such as ghost or psychics has been closed and was closed long ago, altough technically the window of posibility for anything to exist is always open and can never be closed completely, when it reches a certain size it can be considered negligable and is certainly acceptable to consider it closed.

statistics and mathmatics alone help us show that claims such as psychics are nonsense

Zero how are you defining Spiritual, In Zero's Defence, he is work. bare bones dig your heels in grind it out but at one time we were all varying degress of Zero, the know it all phase of life we all go through??? But he is only 17 and he has come along way Desk, beleive me he is growing, he keeps coming back, so something is interesting him and its not becasue we support his ideas i think he is learning and growing so lets not give up on him, he may end up surprising us , he wouldn't of said half of what he is saying now. a few months ago......Namaste Sheri

I think the OP should be turned the other way as well. I know many people who believe in god because that's what they are told to do, if they don't they will go to hell etc. I think it's funny that people who believe in god wouldn't believe in the paranormal anyway...

I mean come on people you believe some guy was born of a virgin, walked on water, turned water into wine, arose from the dead and you have problems believing in the loch ness monster? lol that's funny it just goes to show that people are very single minded

Desk Light, shed some light on your knowledge of the paranormal and refute the book AFTER reading it this time.


This topic is getting boring.

And Sherri, thanks for calling me a know it all..... not.


-does the backwards pants dance-

Sounds like Sherri is trying to convert me. A pointless effort. I can only convert myself.

No Zero that is where you got it wrong i have no need to convert you I only seek to encourage you to keep questoning and thinking and coming up with your own views regardless who likes it., I see even though you don't say or would admit that you are exploring and becoming more open minded, its not those that agree with you that help you its those that don't, and one should embrace those people becasue they do have your interest in view.....If you choose christianity choose it from an informed place and becasue you want to and be very clear on that), and know why you want it, how will it serve you, Its to serve you not the other way arond...Remember that and make it do that okay????

dont worry sherri "wrote him off" ages ago.

if someone is unable to grasp and interpret what are essentially simple points then although given full time the may come round itisnot worth the effort.

i liken it to debating the advantages of the single euopean currency with a small difficult child, the child is so far behind it would be too much effort.

as amusing as his posts are i find it very unrewarding in the long run

his own short comings will

Yeah, that's why I give up on you.


This entire time you've been trying to belittle my wisdom instead of trying to say anything of importants. I think you need to check yourself. You're only trying to boost your own self esteem.

Well then why keep responding to him then?

I gave up on the discussion. Maybe you should ask him why he keeps responding to me?

I think this is excellent advice about spiritual beliefs.
Relgions were created to serve mankind like tools and not to rule over them.
Corruption of religions are easy to spot when people are seen to be serving institutions more than their fellow man, and more pain is being produced than happieness.

All you have to do is ignore him...they have an ignore user button...why not use that


LOL if you used that half the members here would be on your ignore list LOL

For some reason, even if I don't WANT to hear someone, I still WANT to. XD!


I use to do that on yahoo. Some random person would annoy me, I'd go to hit ignore and then say, nah....

Then stop complaining LOL

Maybe you should read up on this in some newer issue scholarly journals.
Like this sample from one for last year, 2005.

Imagination, Cognition and Personality
Issue: Volume 24, Number 3 / 2004-2005
Pages: 259 - 270
URL: Linking Options

INTELLIGENCE CORRELATES OF TRANSCENDENT BELIEFS: A PRELIMINARY STUDY

NICOLE LUKEY A1 and IMANTS BARUŠS A1

A1 King's University College at The University of Western Ontario

Abstract:

In previous research, Barušs and Moore had identified a material-transcendent dimension of beliefs about consciousness and reality that underlies the Western intellectual tradition including the academic study of consciousness. At one pole, materialists believe that reality is entirely physical in nature, whereas those tending toward the transcendent pole believe that reality cannot exhaustively be captured in physical terms. More recently, Jewkes and Barušs had found a number of personality correlates of transcendent beliefs including a tendency toward curiosity and a rational approach to the world [1]. These previous results prompted the present study in which 39 undergraduate psychology students at a liberal arts college were given a measure of beliefs about consciousness and reality, a comprehensive intelligence test, and a personality subtest. Correlations were found among various facets of intelligence, aspects of beliefs, and intellectual curiosity.

The results indicate that greater intelligence is associated with transcendent beliefs.

Source -About Baywood

Since 1964, Baywood Publishing Company, Inc., has been committed to publishing scholarly and professional journals. We are dedicated to serving the academic and professional communities by providing the content they require in the format —print or electronic— that best meets their needs.
We constantly strive to remain a leader in publishing, and keeping in print, authored and edited books that serve as "textual touchstones" for evolving academic fields.
In effect, these texts formally record the current trends in theory, research, and practice within the disciplines while also charting promising new directions for researchers, teachers, and practitioners.

lol well i for one am convinced if the smaple was of 39 people all from the same location .
we must get the word out, inform the world.

i suggest you read up on critical thinking and scientific methods before trying to present "watertight" evidence to suggest that these practices are of any scientific merit.

In real life situations, scientific requirements to accept something shouldn't necessarily be used all the time. We'd be living in a lab the entire time of our life!



Like I say many times. If 30 people, all from different backgrounds, locations, and personalities, who don't even know eachother tell you they saw the guy across the street run over your dog, and you see your dog laying there dead. And all 30 explained it the exact same way. Right there is enough evidence in my opinion to accept that the guy across the street ran over your dog. But this would not be enough for science. Now, this is what I don't understand. How is it even sane to think "I can't say the guy across the street did it, I don't have enough evidence".

To deny it would be to say that all 30 of them were lying about your dog, were all halucinating the same thing at the same time, or are all in on it together. None are probable.

The only reason I'm saying this is because even when things are extremley obvious, if it wasn't studied by science or accepted, they automatically call it invalid.


And here Desklight is, insulting me because I believe in ghosts. I don't understand. Maybe they just never experienced what I have, therefore can't think for themselves on the subject.


Ok, I'm done rambling.


EDIT: Oh yeah, scientific method has been applied to the paranormal in the past. But wait, he didn't even read the book.

study scientific technique and you will find your answers.

im not gonna spend hours walking you through how science works.

I know how science works. I also know why it can't accept what I said above. That there's not enough evidence to prove the guy across the street did it. And there's nothing wrong with science doing that, it's science. But as a person, it would be insane to say the guy across the street didn't do it. I'd slap whoever told me that while my dog was laying there. =)

Kidding.

You know, for someone who pretends to be so smart, you never actualy refute what people say, but instead insult it. You say things like "That's rubbish". And you won't ever get around to why it's rubbish.

Unlike you huh Zero...you never pretend to be stupid do ya...you aint no actor, everything comes naturally to you LOL J/K

if you cant see a difference bewteen 30 people claiming to witness an event and trying to find a trend/pattern in 39 people out of 6 billion then may god help you, as i sure as hell wont!

I wouldn't ask help from someone like you. Because it wouldn't help!


Anyone who was sane would understand the best bet is to believe the guy across the street killed your dog! If not, I'd have fun screwing with your head in real life. It wouldn't be hard! Just do something to you and hide the major evidence. Who cares who saw me do it! That's not proof! It'd be easy to get you to believe it wasn't me.

you have once again totally missed the point reread the posts and think about them.
take aslong as you need

Do we need to send you to pre-school? =)


I wasn't even necessarily replying to your last post.

LOL Zero is this a battle of wits?

But funding for an investigation, and experimenting, comes with every form of science, including religion. We wouldn't progress without it.

well said bella

BM, I'm only treating him like he was treating me. =D


Treat people how you want to be treated.


Anyway...

Zero, it should never matter what another is doing only what you do in relation to them, that is what is meant by treat others as you would be treated. Example: If another calls you a name and you call them a name you have simply reacted, did the exact same thing they did, no thought is put into that, If another calls you a name and you decide you will not call them one back is rising above, because you know that you define you, (no one knows you better than you) not someione else, when you name call back you are defending their opinion of you. leaders don't do that leaders know who they are and are rarely affected by anothers perspective of them....Just my two cents LB...

I give it my own meaning, don't try to tell me yours is truth and mine isn't.


I see it as so:

You're an ass to me, I'll be double the ass to you. So get ready for me to hand you alot of sh%#.



Maybe my nickname should be Mr. Karma. =)

Zero those words were not said, your attitude is very age appropriate lol That teenage phase....lol

Actualy no it isn't. I know many people who are like that. I find it to be a very good way of putting people in their place. I don't let anyone walk all over me.

well good Zero, but i'd be the least of your worries, i am very sure of who i am, Don't lose your s-punkiness lol

My above posts weren't directed towards you. Don't take that the wrong way. I wasn't calling you an ass, lol.

I'm not easily offended, as i told you Your opinion doesn't define me and vice versa, i know how to take you Zero, Your an awright lad, and very tough to hang around here
You'll do fine i have no worrys about ya.....