[font=Arial][size=7] According to what I read and study in the Bible, there are demons and there are instances of demonic possession. Several cases are discribed in the Bible. The first case of an evil spirit tormenting someone was in 1 Samuel 16:14. 'Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.' This spirit was not from the Devil, but from God! One thing to note here, the Spirit of the LORD (Holy Spirit) was with Saul, King of Israel, left him and then an evil spirit came upon him and tormented him. Only music from the harp of soon to be King David would send the evil spirit away. Note that evil spirits still answer to and obey God.

The first time demons are mentioned are in Deuteronomy 32:17 where it talks about how God's chosen children made Him angry when 'They sacrificed to demons, which are not God— gods they had not known, gods that recently appeared, gods your fathers did not fear.' It is mentioned again in Psalms 106:37 where it also said, 'They sacrificed their sons
and their daughters to demons.' There it talked about the same instance of Deuteronomy 32:17.

The first exercism is mentioned about Jesus in Matthew 4:24 'News about him spread all over Syria, and people brought to him all who were ill with various diseases, those suffering severe pain, the demon-possessed, those having seizures, and the paralyzed, and he healed them.' Note it talks about seizures seperately here which could mean that some seizures are not possession related.

To continue in Matthew 7:22 it relates to issues of authority over demons. It states that some will drive out demons and prophesy in the name of Jesus but they are not be true Christians and will not enter into Heaven. 'Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' '

True Christians have authority over demons as noted in Luke 10:17 'The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name."' They can command demons to leave people and be bound until 'that day' (meaning the day of judgement). However, 'holy water' is not used by true Christians. All they use is their faith and the Bible. In some cases, it may take some effort on their part to pray and fast. Note what Jesus told his disappointed disciples in Mark 9:28-29 when they could not exercise a spirit: After Jesus had gone indoors, his disciples asked him privately, "Why couldn't we drive it out?" He replied, "This kind can come out only by prayer and fasting."

Hope this sheds some insight.

Wook

Very interesting information. It's interesting how they seperate seizures and possession. Now we can rule that out before the skeptics make claim to it. I always did find it odd to use "holy water" and all these other odd things. It just didn't seem.... "holy" to me. Seemed too traditional and what not.

Oh and welcome to UM

(C&P)
Self-hypnosis

: Self-hypnosis is a self-induced altered state of mental consciousness that allows you to give constructive suggestions directly to your subconscious mind.
http://www.llewellynencyclopedia.com/glossary.php?alphabet=S

Channeling is said to be induced by many methods including , , self-hypnosis, fasting, dancing, , breathing techniques, smoking herbs, or taking hallucinogenic drugs.
http://www.themystica.org/mystica/articles/c/channeling.html

Beginning in 1904, Bernard had established a clinic in San Francisco where he taught his own versions of self-hypnosis and yoga, which eventually became known as the "Bacchante Academy.
http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeIII/HTML/Oom.html

Some use self-hypnosis to communicate with spirits during , and during parapsychological experiments it has been used to enhance the abilities of those psychics who specialize in remote viewing.
http://www.occultopedia.com/h/hypnosis.htm

There is an increasing acceptance by students of the WMT that the various magical states of consciousness (e.g. , etc) are in fact achieved by self-hypnosis.
http://www.jwmt.org/v1n0/glossary2.html

If one wishes to research the Deamonic histories this site link promises to occupy a great deal of time to the effort.


While the Bible may first allude to Demons in the book of Deuteronomy, the history of daemons is far older that that which the Christian histories would account, as the terminology ascribes: Demon(s)=Christian Daemon(s).

(sic)
"...The words daemon and daimon, sometimes dæmon, are distinctively Hellenizing or Latinate spellings of δαιμων, used purposely today to distinguish the daemons of Greek mythology, good or malevolent "supernatural beings between mortals and gods, such as inferior divinities and ghosts of dead heroes", from the Judeo-Christian usage demon, "a malignant spirit that can possess humans". The Greek translation of the Septuagint, made for the Greek-speaking Jews of Alexandria, and the usage of daimon in the New Testament's original Greek text, caused the Greek word to be applied to a Judeo-Christian spirit by the early 2nd century AD. Then in late antiquity, pagan conceptions and exorcisms, part of the cultural atmosphere, became Christian beliefs and exorcism rituals. The transposition has recently been documented in detail, in North Africa, by Maureen Tilley (see Links).

For Greeks and Romans, daemons ("replete with knowledge", "divine power", "fate" or "god") were not necessarily evil. Socrates claimed to have a daimonion, a small daemon, that warned him against mistakes but never told him what to do or coerced him into following it. He claimed that his daimon exhibited greater accuracy than any of the forms of divination practised at the time. The Hellenistic Greeks divided daemons into good and evil categories: eudaemons (also called kalodaemons) and kakodaemons, respectively. Eudaemons resembled the Abrahamic idea of the guardian angel; they watched over mortals to help keep them out of trouble. (Thus eudaemonia, originally the state of having a eudaemon, came to mean "well-being" or "happiness".) A comparable Roman genius accompanied a person or protected and haunted a place (genius loci)."
Source

Demonic possession certainly is a nifty subject
I'd say the most intriguing one I can recall from the bible is that of Legion, the horde of demons who was 'exorcised' if you will by Jesus...kinda like an action movie...jesus versus legion...or JVL...however said legion of demons could merely have been a culmulation of psychotic voices heard by the man in question..regardless, nifty subject!

Interesting theory and worth looking into. At least I think it makes more sense than demonic possession. BTW, am I having deja vu or did we just cover this topic here...

Exorcisms

I seem to remember that thread died shortly after I posted. No one likes me. (I'm kidding, of course, so don't feel obligated to console me!)