I was just thinking as to why some think (plz note I said some not all) that everyone must believe in God and his son Jesus, and if they don't, they will not get into heaven
Some say they must become a born again christian and be saved..accept Christ ect before God allows you to get into heaven....so basically go againt your free will of non belief and start believing and accepting????
WHY?? Why is it so important?
Don't you think God being the all mighty KNOWS that when he created man/woman he gave each one a mind of their own? To think freely? Do you honestly think he would look down on those that don't believe what they cannot see or have zero evidence of his existence that it seems to make sense to those that there is and was no such thing?
I believe in God but I don't think that if and when you die you MUST have belief in him to enter heaven....if that is the case heaven is quite empty!!!
ATTENTION....only reply if you feel everyone must believe and accept christ....I dont wish to read - ohh its not important ect...it would be intresting to read how those think seriously you MUST and only MUST believe
Full Version: Must a NB really convert?
Hi BM, as you know I'm not a "believer" as such but I'd like to add my two pennies worth if I may.
I feel that the people who say that NB's should convert are worried about us and honestly believe that we'll miss out by not following God. I admit it can be slightly aggravating, but I truly believe they act this way because they actually care about us. I could go into the why's and wherefore's but I'll probably be here all day and I have housework to do so I'll leave it at that for now
I feel that the people who say that NB's should convert are worried about us and honestly believe that we'll miss out by not following God. I admit it can be slightly aggravating, but I truly believe they act this way because they actually care about us. I could go into the why's and wherefore's but I'll probably be here all day and I have housework to do so I'll leave it at that for now
I understand you Bebi
Thing is...none of us have any proof.......we just hang on to a faith and nothing more...I am a believer Bebi...but in the back of my mind I ponder a lil about God and heaven, then wonder what iF...I know that a lot of these chrsitains have asked themselves - What IF??
What if there really is no God or heaven? Should you care? All I can say is...not really no...you're going to be dead and you wont know....HOWEVER it would be nice to think there is..because I for one would love the idea of seeing my loved ones again
I think that's why a lot of believer hang on to their belief....
You say its because they care..........I only care for my loved ones & friends and I am not ashamed to admit that..........my NB friends such as Sheri, bacca ect....I believe they too will get into heaven or at least hope we all do....but because they are NB's that does not make them a lesser person than me as a believer
Thing is...none of us have any proof.......we just hang on to a faith and nothing more...I am a believer Bebi...but in the back of my mind I ponder a lil about God and heaven, then wonder what iF...I know that a lot of these chrsitains have asked themselves - What IF??
What if there really is no God or heaven? Should you care? All I can say is...not really no...you're going to be dead and you wont know....HOWEVER it would be nice to think there is..because I for one would love the idea of seeing my loved ones again
I think that's why a lot of believer hang on to their belief....You say its because they care..........I only care for my loved ones & friends and I am not ashamed to admit that..........my NB friends such as Sheri, bacca ect....I believe they too will get into heaven or at least hope we all do....but because they are NB's that does not make them a lesser person than me as a believer
I know where you're coming from, but your point was about the pro-conversion Christians; I've never seen a post yet where you've tried to convert anyone 
These are the people who believe in their faith so strongly that they are 100% sure heaven awaits them after death. I can understand them wanting everyone to share this, and being worried that someone they care about won't make it.
Imagine it this way if you will; innoculations for children. We all know that if a child isn't innoculated there's a good chance they will catch the disease the innoculation is for. Think "conversion" for the innoculation and "hell" for the disease. For the people we're discussing, the threat of Hell is as real to them as a disease is for a child who hasn't had their jabs.
Sorry it's a bit vague, I'm tidying up between posts LOL
These are the people who believe in their faith so strongly that they are 100% sure heaven awaits them after death. I can understand them wanting everyone to share this, and being worried that someone they care about won't make it.
Imagine it this way if you will; innoculations for children. We all know that if a child isn't innoculated there's a good chance they will catch the disease the innoculation is for. Think "conversion" for the innoculation and "hell" for the disease. For the people we're discussing, the threat of Hell is as real to them as a disease is for a child who hasn't had their jabs.
Sorry it's a bit vague, I'm tidying up between posts LOL
QUOTE(Bebi @ Feb 25 2006, 10:40 AM) [snapback]1078421[/snapback]
I know where you're coming from, but your point was about the pro-conversion Christians; I've never seen a post yet where you've tried to convert anyone
I don't intend to...I believe in letting people chose their own paths....if it makes them happy thats what counts not what I think is right...
I havent seen you try and convert anyone either...and you are wicca right?
QUOTE(Bebi @ Feb 25 2006, 10:40 AM) [snapback]1078421[/snapback]
Imagine it this way if you will; innoculations for children. We all know that if a child isn't innoculated there's a good chance they will catch the disease the innoculation is for. Think "conversion" for the innoculation and "hell" for the disease. For the people we're discussing, the threat of Hell is as real to them as a disease is for a child who hasn't had their jabs.
true..
Yes, I class myself as Wiccan. From a young age I wasn't sure about Christianity, I spent years pondering and working out just what it was I believed in. At the age of 20ish I picked up a book on Wicca and it was like I was reading something I'd written myself. It sounds strange but that's how a lot of people find Wicca. I believe that Wicca finds you; not the other way around, that's why I do no more than give information to those who ask. If it's right for them they'll decide on their own with no co-ercion from me.
Saying that I do have an interest in other religions. I feel that being completely ignorant of other faiths is as bad as rejecting them outright.
I must admit I have been tempted to knock on the door of the local JW building and ask them if they're interested in Wicca just to pay them back for all the times they've stood on my doorstep and not understood the words "I'm really not interested" I never have though but it's great to imagine their faces if I ever did...
Right - back on topic now LOL
Saying that I do have an interest in other religions. I feel that being completely ignorant of other faiths is as bad as rejecting them outright.
I must admit I have been tempted to knock on the door of the local JW building and ask them if they're interested in Wicca just to pay them back for all the times they've stood on my doorstep and not understood the words "I'm really not interested"
I never have though but it's great to imagine their faces if I ever did...Right - back on topic now LOL
I do not have any "proof" of my belief. That doesn't make my belief any less real. And I am compelled to tell others of what I see as Truth. I won't intrude and badger and browbeat them, but I will let them know that this is my way, and in my opinion it is the only way.
I see people walking along a path, and at the end is a cliff that people don't know about. I am warning of that cliff, and people are saying, I dont' believe there's a cliff there.
The Bible as far as I'm concerned, tells us the Truth we don't want to hear. No one wants to hear that they are incapable of reaching God on their own. No one wants to hear that they are sinners. No one wants to hear that they are destined to a life without God. The Bible tells us much that we do not want to hear.
Yet I see it as Truth. And as such, I feel compelled, out of Love for others, to tell them about the proverbial cliff edge. Not for my own villification, but for the sake of other human beings. If it turns out that I am wrong, and there was no cliff, no harm done (maybe a little embarassment on my part). But if it is there, that I knew about it is not going to make me feel any better when those people start falling to their deaths.
That's just my opinion. As I said, I'm not going to force feed the Bible to people. Nor am I going to condemn people for choosing their path. But out of Love, I am going to warn people of what I see as a great danger that they don't see, and tell them of the great Love of God, who gave us a way to escape that cliff.
Regards, PA
I see people walking along a path, and at the end is a cliff that people don't know about. I am warning of that cliff, and people are saying, I dont' believe there's a cliff there.
The Bible as far as I'm concerned, tells us the Truth we don't want to hear. No one wants to hear that they are incapable of reaching God on their own. No one wants to hear that they are sinners. No one wants to hear that they are destined to a life without God. The Bible tells us much that we do not want to hear.
Yet I see it as Truth. And as such, I feel compelled, out of Love for others, to tell them about the proverbial cliff edge. Not for my own villification, but for the sake of other human beings. If it turns out that I am wrong, and there was no cliff, no harm done (maybe a little embarassment on my part). But if it is there, that I knew about it is not going to make me feel any better when those people start falling to their deaths.
That's just my opinion. As I said, I'm not going to force feed the Bible to people. Nor am I going to condemn people for choosing their path. But out of Love, I am going to warn people of what I see as a great danger that they don't see, and tell them of the great Love of God, who gave us a way to escape that cliff.
Regards, PA
What some people dont care to realize is that people are very much capable to make their own judgment and make up their own minds on what path to take...to ignore that is ignorant
PA - take you for example...you chose to become a christian...no one made you...you didn't have to....but you did...thats your choice am I right?
It's ok to advise people but there is a line to cross...if they don't want to know leave it (ps PA I wasn't aiming that last part at you)
If you are giving advice...Use a lil diplomacy while doing so....not many do this....one thing a lot of holy people tend to forget is they have no proof of their God.....some say much like PA...we see the bible as truth....actaully that should be........ - We BELEIVE it to be truth...but that don't mean to others it IS....facts are required by most and fact means truth...if you cant proove it dont try and force it (this is not directed at anyone in particular)
How many of you have pondered the idea that there may not be anything out there?
PA - take you for example...you chose to become a christian...no one made you...you didn't have to....but you did...thats your choice am I right?
It's ok to advise people but there is a line to cross...if they don't want to know leave it (ps PA I wasn't aiming that last part at you)
If you are giving advice...Use a lil diplomacy while doing so....not many do this....one thing a lot of holy people tend to forget is they have no proof of their God.....some say much like PA...we see the bible as truth....actaully that should be........ - We BELEIVE it to be truth...but that don't mean to others it IS....facts are required by most and fact means truth...if you cant proove it dont try and force it (this is not directed at anyone in particular)
How many of you have pondered the idea that there may not be anything out there?
I have, plenty of times. I find it more plausible to believe that Nature is the true driving force behind everything, but that's just my opinion. If someone believes in God/the Bible then I won't tell them otherwise. Yes I'll debate whether the Bible is accurate or not; but I never tell anyone their faith is "wrong". It does gall me slightly when you get someone who insists their faith is "right" and all others are wrong, that's where most of the religious wars have come from.
QUOTE(Bebi @ Feb 25 2006, 01:43 PM) [snapback]1078522[/snapback]
I have, plenty of times. I find it more plausible to believe that Nature is the true driving force behind everything, but that's just my opinion. If someone believes in God/the Bible then I won't tell them otherwise. Yes I'll debate whether the Bible is accurate or not; but I never tell anyone their faith is "wrong". It does gall me slightly when you get someone who insists their faith is "right" and all others are wrong, that's where most of the religious wars have come from.That's because you have your head firmly on your shoulders good for you
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Feb 26 2006, 12:35 AM) [snapback]1078517[/snapback]
How many of you have pondered the idea that there may not be anything out there?
As I've said, i won't force someone to believe, but neither will I shy away from giving my opinion. I know I don't have facts. Facts for an intangible God? Come on! But that doesn't make what I believe any less real to me. It is my duty as a CHristian to tell others of Jesus. To not do so goes against the teachings of the Bible.
If this angers someone, then so be it. It is not my intent to bash them to submission, but it is my responsibility as a Chrisitan to spread the message. But above and beyond my responsibility and duty, I willingly do this, out of Love for my fellow man.
Regards, PA
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Feb 25 2006, 02:00 PM) [snapback]1078540[/snapback]
Indeed I have
As I've said, i won't force someone to believe, but neither will I shy away from giving my opinion. I know I don't have facts. Facts for an intangible God? Come on! But that doesn't make what I believe any less real to me. It is my duty as a CHristian to tell others of Jesus. To not do so goes against the teachings of the Bible.
If this angers someone, then so be it. It is not my intent to bash them to submission, but it is my responsibility as a Chrisitan to spread the message. But above and beyond my responsibility and duty, I willingly do this, out of Love for my fellow man.
Regards, PA
PA - It shouldn't really anger anyone but so what if someone is angered thats tough on them...if you feel so strongly about your faith, you shouldn't care what or who is angered by it...if you are not forcing anyone to follow you..then they have no room to bash you
In general though I wont bash but I will ask questions...no harm in that
bebi, what are the basic beliefs and principles of wicca? i haven't really delved into the subject before, and while i know a good deal about many religions, that has been one that i haven't gotten to yet. so i'm just curious about it. any information you could give me would be much appreciated.
I agree with Bebi's first post. A lot of Christians care about friends or family that are NBs, especially the NB's that have troubled lives. A lot of Christians I have met had troubled lives before they excepted Christ. It gave peace in their lives and they feel as though they should share that, to be a testimony to a troubled soul. It worked for them so why not for someone else. I happen to believe though that Christianity isn't the only way to obtain peace and comfort, just a way a lot of people choose.
There are plenty of sites available, this is just one of them
http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/wicca.htm
Here's a few quotes from the page:
Wicca is a deep appreciation and awe in watching the sunrise or sunset, the forest in the light of a glowing moon, a meadow enchanted by the first light of day. It is the morning dew on the petals of a beautiful flower, the gentle caress of a warm summer breeze upon your skin, or the warmth of the summer sun on your face. Wicca is the fall of colorful autumn leaves, and the softness of winter snow. It is light, and shadow and all that lies in between. It is the song of the birds and other creatures of the wild. It is being in the presence of Mother Earths nature and being humbled in reverence. When we are in the temple of the Lord and Lady, we are not prone to the arrogance of human technology as they touch our souls. To be a Witch is to be a healer, a teacher, a seeker, a giver, and a protector of all things. If this path is yours, may you walk it with honor, light and integrity.
*****
What Witchcraft is:
Witchcraft is a spiritual system that fosters the free thought and will of the individual, encourages learning and an understanding of the earth and nature thereby affirming the divinity in all living things. Most importantly however, it teaches responsibility. We accept responsibility for our actions and deeds as clearly a result of the choices we make. We do not blame an exterior entity or being for our shortcomings, weaknesses or mistakes. If we mess up or do something that brings harm to another, we have no one but ourselves to blame and we must face the consequences resulting from those actions. No ifs, ands or buts and no whining...
*****
The heart of Wicca is not something summed up into a few short words and can often take on different meaning to each since the Lord and Lady touch us in different ways. To gain a fuller understanding of the Craft, I urge you visit the other pages on this site as well as following the links to a select group of exceptional Wiccan and Witchcraft sites. Through the wisdom and words set down through the ages, you will find that you are able to understand the basis of our beliefs and how they may apply to you. Your inner voice will also quickly let you know if the intent of what you are reading is for superficial purposes to benefit self instead of working to benefit the whole. Remember to read with your heart, for it is when you see life and the world with your heart and spirit that you truly gain an understanding of what Wicca is.
http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/wicca0.htm For more links on the site
I'll let you all get back on topic now - here's an article that is written by a Christian regarding Wicca, and it also touches on BM's original post
http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/christian.htm
http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/wicca.htm
Here's a few quotes from the page:
QUOTE
Wicca is a deep appreciation and awe in watching the sunrise or sunset, the forest in the light of a glowing moon, a meadow enchanted by the first light of day. It is the morning dew on the petals of a beautiful flower, the gentle caress of a warm summer breeze upon your skin, or the warmth of the summer sun on your face. Wicca is the fall of colorful autumn leaves, and the softness of winter snow. It is light, and shadow and all that lies in between. It is the song of the birds and other creatures of the wild. It is being in the presence of Mother Earths nature and being humbled in reverence. When we are in the temple of the Lord and Lady, we are not prone to the arrogance of human technology as they touch our souls. To be a Witch is to be a healer, a teacher, a seeker, a giver, and a protector of all things. If this path is yours, may you walk it with honor, light and integrity.
*****
What Witchcraft is:
Witchcraft is a spiritual system that fosters the free thought and will of the individual, encourages learning and an understanding of the earth and nature thereby affirming the divinity in all living things. Most importantly however, it teaches responsibility. We accept responsibility for our actions and deeds as clearly a result of the choices we make. We do not blame an exterior entity or being for our shortcomings, weaknesses or mistakes. If we mess up or do something that brings harm to another, we have no one but ourselves to blame and we must face the consequences resulting from those actions. No ifs, ands or buts and no whining...
*****
The heart of Wicca is not something summed up into a few short words and can often take on different meaning to each since the Lord and Lady touch us in different ways. To gain a fuller understanding of the Craft, I urge you visit the other pages on this site as well as following the links to a select group of exceptional Wiccan and Witchcraft sites. Through the wisdom and words set down through the ages, you will find that you are able to understand the basis of our beliefs and how they may apply to you. Your inner voice will also quickly let you know if the intent of what you are reading is for superficial purposes to benefit self instead of working to benefit the whole. Remember to read with your heart, for it is when you see life and the world with your heart and spirit that you truly gain an understanding of what Wicca is.
http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/wicca0.htm For more links on the site
I'll let you all get back on topic now - here's an article that is written by a Christian regarding Wicca, and it also touches on BM's original post
http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/christian.htm
a nb has no guidence in thier life and will find this through god himself........noone can make a nb believe in god only god can make himself nown but the nb has to listen for him.....without god a nb has nothin to look to and no guidence. if a nb doesn tlisten to gods words it is ingnorance........god gave us free will but free will only stands witrh the acceptance of god....no god then no free will.......a nb will get nowhere in life without gods word.
InMyNature
InMyNature
QUOTE(InMyNature @ Feb 25 2006, 09:48 AM) [snapback]1078593[/snapback]
a nb has no guidence in thier life and will find this through god himself........noone can make a nb believe in god only god can make himself nown but the nb has to listen for him.....without god a nb has nothin to look to and no guidence. if a nb doesn tlisten to gods words it is ingnorance........god gave us free will but free will only stands witrh the acceptance of god....no god then no free will.......a nb will get nowhere in life without gods word.
InMyNature
I accept God, but I don't believe in the Christian version. The "Christian" concept is a hateful, spiteful Being who created us, gave us free will, then made an eternal torture for those who don't make the right choice. Nope, I prefer a loving god. I reject xianity and it's "choices". A loving God would not act so preposterously.
QUOTE(GIDEON MAGE @ Feb 25 2006, 10:05 AM) [snapback]1078611[/snapback]
Nope, I prefer a loving god.
Not to criticize, but are you saying that you create your image of God based on what you prefer?
QUOTE(InMyNature @ Feb 25 2006, 02:48 PM) [snapback]1078593[/snapback]
a nb has no guidence in thier life and will find this through god himself........noone can make a nb believe in god only god can make himself nown but the nb has to listen for him.....without god a nb has nothin to look to and no guidence. if a nb doesn tlisten to gods words it is ingnorance........god gave us free will but free will only stands witrh the acceptance of god....no god then no free will.......a nb will get nowhere in life without gods word.
InMyNature
Who are you to say a NB has no guidence in their life? How can you judge that?
QUOTE(Phyltre @ Feb 25 2006, 03:24 PM) [snapback]1078627[/snapback]
Not to criticize, but are you saying that you create your image of God based on what you prefer?
Does it matter what God he prefers to you?...anyone can worship God it doesnt have to be the chrsitan God...you make it sound as though its a MUST
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Feb 26 2006, 07:00 AM) [snapback]1079010[/snapback]
Does it matter what God he prefers to you?...anyone can worship God it doesnt have to be the chrsitan God...you make it sound as though its a MUST
Regards, PA
QUOTE(InMyNature @ Feb 25 2006, 02:48 PM) [snapback]1078593[/snapback]
a nb has no guidence in thier life and will find this through god himself........noone can make a nb believe in god only god can make himself nown but the nb has to listen for him.....without god a nb has nothin to look to and no guidence. if a nb doesn tlisten to gods words it is ingnorance........god gave us free will but free will only stands witrh the acceptance of god....no god then no free will.......a nb will get nowhere in life without gods word.
InMyNature
You know, the more I read from you, the more I believe that you live in a dream world.
It is up to the individual to believe/not believe what they do. It is God's(?) fault what the outcome is going by the supposed fact that he gave us all free will. If he wants to speak to us, I'm sure he'll find a way - he (apparently) created the world in seven days for crying out loud. I'm sure speaking to us isn't any harder.
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Feb 26 2006, 01:04 AM) [snapback]1079445[/snapback]
It can be argued that it does matter. For if we have no hope without Jesus, then worshipping another God is not going to make a difference. Of course, this comes down, again, to perception and proof
Regards, PA
PA, I love how you end your opinion in such a way that you expected someone to pounce on you (
). It made me laugh.Sorry, but it did ...
QUOTE(Bebi @ Feb 25 2006, 10:06 AM) [snapback]1078385[/snapback]
Hi BM, as you know I'm not a "believer" as such but I'd like to add my two pennies worth if I may.
I feel that the people who say that NB's should convert are worried about us and honestly believe that we'll miss out by not following God. I admit it can be slightly aggravating, but I truly believe they act this way because they actually care about us. I could go into the why's and wherefore's but I'll probably be here all day and I have housework to do so I'll leave it at that for now
I don't care who converts or not. But this is the best post on here probably.
Bebi i for one would pass on that sort of concern, The bible is asking one to except that its the word of 'god'(yet its written by man) It asks you to live in fear It asks to disciminate and be intolerant of others especially if they are gay or female or a child)It ask that you think you are unworthy and sinful NATURALLY, the bible also asks you except it as the only truth and there is truth everywhere, It also asks us to buy that all that has been said aboout life has been said and there are no new truths, no new mountains to climb. It asks us to be cruel to those that are different, considering the source It may very well be a christians fears for us, no t only do i pass i graciously explain why 
Namaste sheri
Namaste sheri
Show me where it tells us to be intolerant towards gay people.
I've never seen someone get so many things wrong about the bible in one post than you just did!
I've never seen someone get so many things wrong about the bible in one post than you just did!
QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Feb 26 2006, 01:00 AM) [snapback]1079875[/snapback]
Show me where it tells us to be intolerant towards gay people.
Zero, teaching Gay is against'god' god dosn't like gays breeds intolerance and its no mystery that more than one christian will attempt to fulfil 'dietys" wishes, often through killing them or shunning them or repeatedly telling them they are unworthy. ( Bahamut on another thread said they were disgusting) a thread got closed down last nite on just this topic, so lets keep this civil, i do not and will not discriminate towards anyone and i will not humour anyone anymore that does i will report , there is no reason for it and the bible inspires alot of hatred....period.......
Gay is a sin. That is all. Just like lying, stealing, etc..
No it isn't, you say something like that based on no facts whats so ever, call it truth, you have decided to beleive somethng that someone has made up, lots of people beleive anything don't be one of them, Ask yourself this would you want to be treated as sinful if you were gay???and if you say yes I'd look into why you would except a philosophy that taught you to think of yourself in terms of worthlessness?????or sinful, Is this the same guy who just said he holds his self in high esteem???if thats the case then it wouldn't matter ones sexuality you would insist they honor the truth they find inside just like you and religon Zero... and you wouldn't of said that.namaste sheri
I'm talking about what the bible says, woman. You're tryin to tell me what the bible says about gay people, and I'm trying to tell you. Slow your wheels.
You're talking to a metrosexual. I'm the closest a straight guy can come to being gay.
Kiddin'.
You're talking to a metrosexual. I'm the closest a straight guy can come to being gay.
Kiddin'.
Would I wanted to be treated as sinful if I were gay? Hell, why'd I care? It wouldn't be any different. I lie, so I sin. Lying is a sin just as much as being gay is. So what? No biggie.
I don't think you'd be good at having a boss. You complain about simple little rules so much.
It's so fun messing with Sheri.
I don't think you'd be good at having a boss. You complain about simple little rules so much.
It's so fun messing with Sheri.
QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Feb 26 2006, 06:18 PM) [snapback]1079891[/snapback]
Gay is a sin. That is all. Just like lying, stealing, etc..
How true.
However, I also must stress that in many ways, Christians do not know how to handle gay people. They often live in their own world where things like that should not exist, and when it comes, they do not know how to handle it, and often make the wrong (and very sinful) discriminatory action.
Take a read of this, written in the foreward of a book called "What Some of You Were", a book written by Christian gays, and how their choice to turn away from their nature has led to a deeper appreciation and Love for God. The foreward reads thus:
Jesus taught forgiveness, but he also taught repentance. And we all need to repent, especially of our acts of homobphobia. I was reflecting recently on asuburban church of whihc i was once a member. In that church, I think it would have been impossible for an adolescent in our fellowship to come out and say "I think I'm gay". We didn't create a safe place for people to be honest about their struggles. We allowed a culture of fear, where being honest would have meant almost certain rejection and ridicule.
In that church, I think WE were guilty of sin. The Bible is not homophobic. God is not a persecutor of homosexuals, and his people know only too well the depths of their failure before him. It's very hard to be violent to someone when you are looking them in the eyes with your hand around their shoulder saying, "I have sinned too".
We cannot walk away from this. The Bible does not say, "Straight sex is good, gay sex is bad". Heterosexual adultery is no more and no less of a sin than homosexuality.
And we must be clear about this. There is a difference between saying homosexuality is unacceptable to God and being homophobic. When one syas the Bible stands against adultery, one is not regarded as heterophobic. When one says the Bible stands against the performance of homosexual acts, that is not homophobic. It is not vilification to say that God rejects some human sexual behaviour. And it is no more homophobic than rejecting Christ and his messengers is Christophobic.
Paul condemns a range of human behaviours (1 Corinthians 6:9-11). Homosexuality is on the list, alongside drunkenness and greed. Paul does not suggest one is better or worse than the other - these kinds of actions are incompatible with being the people of God.
But the part I love is verse 11 - "That is what some of you were....". From the very beginning the church of Christ has been made up of people who were substance abusers, adulterers, liars, compulsive spenders - and homosexuals. The church is made up of sinful people who have found mercy in Christ.
No matter who I am or what I have done, I am a candidate for regeneration in Christ. Praise God.......... (E. Vaughan, "What some of you were", page 12-13)
Couldn't have said it better myself
Regards, PA
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Feb 26 2006, 01:04 AM) [snapback]1079445[/snapback]
It can be argued that it does matter. For if we have no hope without Jesus, then worshipping another God is not going to make a difference. Of course, this comes down, again, to perception and proof
Regards, PA
WHY PROOF PA?? when others ask you do you have proof of your God...what do you say to that?
...so again why proof of another God?...could it be that the God you worship as the christian God is the same god in heaven others like myself worship but dont ref to him as the christian God but God in heaven...and I should have proof? 
sorry wrong thread
QUOTE(InMyNature @ Feb 25 2006, 02:48 PM) [snapback]1078593[/snapback]
a nb has no guidence in thier life and will find this through god himself........
QUOTE
noone can make a nb believe in god only god can make himself nown but the nb has to listen for him.....
What of those who want to believe in God and who are NB's because they simply don't feel God is there?QUOTE
without god a nb has nothin to look to and no guidence.
That's twice you said that QUOTE
if a nb doesn tlisten to gods words it is ingnorance........
If a person disregards anything without consideration it's ignorance. I was brought up by parents who wanted me to believe in God. I tried, but for some reason I felt absolutely nothing. I don't disbelieve because I feel it's untrue; I disbelieve because I've found nothing concrete to believe in. Actually, disbelieve is the wrong word to use, I keep an open mind. Maybe one day I will be a fervent believer, who knows... (and no that's not an invitation, I'll make my mind up in my own time on my own terms )QUOTE
god gave us free will but free will only stands witrh the acceptance of god....no god then no free will.......
This makes God sound like some kind of Mafia boss...QUOTE
a nb will get nowhere in life without gods word.
I know a number of people who are NB's and have achieved plenty without God's word.
Edit: Mutters @ dyslexic keyboard...
it has come to light that some people believe the last post i made on this thread to be a repost of my deleted thread. It is in fact completley new material, and mostly pointed at the Christian believer - a call for tolerance, to look at how they perceive the gay community.
Just thought i'd share that with you all.
Regards, PA
Just thought i'd share that with you all.
Regards, PA
QUOTE(InMyNature @ Feb 25 2006, 09:48 AM) [snapback]1078593[/snapback]
a nb has no guidence in thier life and will find this through god himself........
Here is some of the guidance you follow:
-"Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man ... , keep alive for yourselves."
[Moses, relaying God's orders to his people, Numbers 31:17-18]
-When Yahweh your god has settled you in the land you're about to occupy, and driven out many infidels before you...you're to cut them down and exterminate them. You're to make no compromise with them or show them any mercy.
[Deut. 7:1 (KJV)]
-But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
[Jesus, Luke 19:27]
-"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace, but a sword."
[Jesus, Matthew 10:34]
-I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL:
I the lord do all these things.
[Isaiah 45:7]
Hmmmm. I thought it was the devil that did these things, maybe they are one and the same, a figment of our imagination.
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Leviticus 20:13
20: And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21: And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die:
so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Deuteronomy 21
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)
Is this the same god that we were taught about in Sunday school? Obviously christians overlook these and other quotes when they claim that the bible has set the moral standards for society, and blame the moral decay of society on drifting away from the church.
Well, lets go attack a village, en and grab the virgins, that should put us back on track with the bible.
My being a NB I have better morals then what the Bible preaches!
I am surprised no one caught this!
Show me where it tells us to be intolerant towards gay people.Zero show you what and where?
Gay is a sin. That is all. Just like lying, stealing, etc..Show us where in the Bible it says this.
Look at your self first!
QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Feb 26 2006, 02:00 AM) [snapback]1079875[/snapback]
Show me where it tells us to be intolerant towards gay people.
QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Feb 26 2006, 02:18 AM) [snapback]1079891[/snapback]
Gay is a sin. That is all. Just like lying, stealing, etc..
QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Feb 26 2006, 02:00 AM) [snapback]1079875[/snapback]
I've never seen someone get so many things wrong about the bible in one post than you just did!
Look at your self first!
Look who's talking. Mister "this is a bible contradiction!"... "oh wait, no it's not". =D
QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Feb 26 2006, 03:23 PM) [snapback]1080251[/snapback]
Look who's talking. Mister "this is a bible contradiction!"... "oh wait, no it's not". =D
I think Zandore asked you to prove something Zero...scroll up
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Feb 26 2006, 01:38 PM) [snapback]1080152[/snapback]
it has come to light that some people believe the last post i made on this thread to be a repost of my deleted thread. It is in fact completley new material, and mostly pointed at the Christian believer - a call for tolerance, to look at how they perceive the gay community.
Just thought i'd share that with you all.
Regards, PA
PA stop trying so hard to bring that subject up again..I asked you WHAT PROOF does one need of a different God??
or WHY do they need proof for that matter?
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Feb 26 2006, 10:36 AM) [snapback]1080265[/snapback]
..I asked you WHAT PROOF does one need of a different God??
or WHY do they need proof for that matter?The same criteria that is use for your God also should be used for ANY God or Gods.
QUOTE(zandore @ Feb 26 2006, 04:11 PM) [snapback]1080324[/snapback]
I agree BM
The same criteria that is use for your God also should be used for ANY God or Gods.
I typed that out for the simple reason....PA doesn't like it when someone asks him for proof of the God he worships but he made those claims, saying it all comes down to proof...so I ask WHY???
Stop asking stupid questions, BM/Zandore. We all know that it doesn't take "proof" to believe the existence of God(?) to be a fact.
He's there! ---------->
No wait. He's moved again ...
THERE! ----------> 
He's there! ---------->
No wait. He's moved again ...
THERE! ---------->
QUOTE(Tornado @ Feb 26 2006, 05:36 PM) [snapback]1080416[/snapback]
Stop asking stupid questions, BM/Zandore. We all know that it doesn't take "proof" to believe the existence of God(?) to be a fact.
He's there! ---------->
No wait. He's moved again ...
THERE! ----------> LOL girl hop back up on to cloud nine again LOL I didnt ask stupid questions I asked him WHY? why does he need proof...when he himself cant prove diddly squat
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Feb 26 2006, 11:13 AM) [snapback]1080328[/snapback]
I typed that out for the simple reason....PA doesn't like it when someone asks him for proof of the God he worships but he made those claims, saying it all comes down to proof...so I ask WHY???
I just put this in my SIG:
"The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance...logic can be happily tossed out the window".
Stephen King
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Feb 26 2006, 06:30 PM) [snapback]1080501[/snapback]
LOL girl hop back up on to cloud nine again LOL I didnt ask stupid questions I asked him WHY? why does he need proof...when he himself cant prove diddly squat
Cloud nine rocks. I can see God(?) form here!
QUOTE(zandore @ Feb 26 2006, 06:33 PM) [snapback]1080509[/snapback]
I just put this in my SIG:
"The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance...logic can be happily tossed out the window".
Stephen King
Nice!
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