Going back to the main thread issue; we could all give up our lives because we believe there to be something better that God(?) has laid out for us. If we don't believe in God(?), there are claims that we wont see the same privileges (lol) as those who do believe. Some would say that we'll be punished in some way. Others (ramster, for example) will say that we will simply be separated from God(?). Assuming we'll be punished in one way or another (as a majority have said will happen), wouldn't that be God's(?) own fault for not "forcing us" to know and love him? That's our punishment for his error?

Sorry, Zandore. I must have been thinking of how to reply while you added your response.

It seems like I did the same thing to some one else yesterday was it?

IT'S ALL GOOD!

Y'all suck














hee hee

BM this IS AN OPEN FORUM remember?



Jealous?

I don't think that being omniscient means you are prescient.

NOPE?

Isn't that a slight contradiction? If you know it all, then you know it all whether you've already done it or not.

You will be denied contact with God- if you dont believe in him here- then you neednt believe in him in the next life. I dont personally know what happens when you're dead its just a theory. I personally just believe if you dont believe you will cease to exist- as in...you wont be dumped anywhere, you wont "live" again...your ultimate belief of "death after death" will be true. There will be no thinking of "oops my bad" or "i was right"...There will be no thinking at all. Yet all a believer can say is "I was right". . That does clash with what i was saying about "we will all find out"....My bad.

but a loving God won't do this.

My post wasn't about Adam and Eve, it was about purpose. Lets stay on topic, shall we?

Why not? Its not cruel at all. Besides those that resented God and didnt believe in him- in the true word dont want to believe in him either- they dont want to believe in a God that would do this or that or this or that and want nothing to do with him - even if he exists...So God is granting them that wish- its not cruel its just.

Ouch, Geez Ramster, should i start getting concerned about you??it is very cruel and incomplete to profess that the behavior of the bible is anything but dysfunctional and harmful, one must really pay attention to what he deems acceptable treatment towards others, the bible god is not demonstating unconditional love,or basic kindness, its just not there...namaste Sheri

What else is left to say about them?

\

i wasn't talking about them. They just happen to decorate my explanation of why we live for others and not for ourselves. I was just explaining that we havn't lived for ourselves since they screwed up. Thats all I was saying.

God bless

No Sherri no reason to be concerned about me at all...You say the Bible is nothing but dysfunctional and harmful- that is as much a lie as someone saying the Bible is completely flawless and perfect- i never once said that. Ill swallow up my pride and say the Bible does have violence and bloodshed and tears- yet will you be smart enough to say the Bible does have happyness, joy, fantastic moral values (that can still be actioned today), great poetry, and some actual facts? There's no reason for such an extreme view on the Bible im sorry.

Well put.
It shows both types of fundementalism.
Fundementalism of both types very much carry the attitude of all or nothing.
It is either all true or none is true.
It is either all perfect or none of it is perfect.
It is either all good or none of it is good.
It is either all sensible or none of it is sensible.

Why do you believe in Adam and Eve? Why do you think God out of all the things he created that are much bigger...only created just the two people?

There are two creation versions in the Bible.
In one version the first created race of both male and female is named Adam.

Drop the adam and eve thing already. I'm not going into this. I was talking about the reason why we live. That's all. Its amazing how someone can take a little piece of a post and change the subject by saying something catchy. Lets not get to carried away. Remember what the post was about? God bless

I asked you a simple question in ref to this topic...granted its not entirley what the topic is about but guess what BLUE its still related to the topic...now if you can answer my question then say so...don't get rotty with me

Referring to the part about "ceasing to exist"; is this an example of a God(?) that shows unconditional love?

"Okay, Joe. You don't believe in me? No? Then I will end your being. Eat that, sucker! ... Muahaha!"


What about the people who don't believe in God(?), but still have faith in the idea that there is some form of life after death? What do you think happens to them? Does the above included them too?

Ramster Could you be abit clearer on the Joy and happiness part, interesting how you just brushed off the violence, intolerance, the discrimination, bloodshed, as not really important..hmm, I'd be very open to considering the 'poetic" nature of the bible, i do not find that so in the bible, Now the Gita is very poetic, maybe its taste, I'd also like to touch on the 'fantastic" morals you are claiming it has.....Also why did you say you would swallow your pride and say there may be a tear or two a bit of murder and mayhem.... Namaste sheri

ok i'm curious of the things in the bible that you are saying are facts....i mean i can pull out any stephen king book and give you facts or a fairy tale even and it will have some facts like flowers smell and food has a taste etc lol what are these facts...

also i think i saw something on the idea that what happens after death is what you think will happen? Or at least in a nut shell....but that makes no sense at all. you can't change a fact with a thought. if there is a god then we will all someday know it and if there isn't then we will somehow know that as well......it's all relative but how you think and believe here can't change what happens later, that's just silliness

Actualy if there is no God and no afterlife, we will never know. Lol, that means we'd just die and poof that's it. We can't say "I told you there was no God!".

Right! Yet according to ramster, if there is a God(?) and we don't believe in him we will just cease to exist. Those people are f**ked either way.

Is correct Zero...it's not as if we can all go...ner ner ner tolds so

well, i didn't want to talk about it. I kept saying it. sorry for losing my temper, but I was trying to make a point about the topic that everyone was avoiding talking about.

but if you really want to know, yes I believe the story.


God bless

Umm I made an error LOL see for some mad reason I thought this was the topic on Adam and Eve sorry LMAO

The first sign of a postaholic

I know LOL I was in and out of the Adam and Eve topic so many times, I had forgotten which topic I was in at the time....I should start going to postaholic anonymous meetings...call then P.A meetings no don't scrap that, it reminds me of someone...no prizes guess who that is

I can just pic it now *Bm stands up...Hi everyone I am BM and I am a .....postaholic... yes it's true...I need help*!!!!

Well, I happen to enjoy your problem

Awww well in that case TY...but im still going to those meetings..cuz it will get to a point where I enter some thread about football and post up...OK prove your God exists???

I can see that happening actually jk

That movie wasn't all that great Arty


oh gawd I'm doing it again

People that have faith that there is some form of afterlife might be fine? The only people that im referring to are athiests- people that believe in no God or higher power - or spirituality or nothing. Others that have comfort and faith in their beliefs may have their beliefs granted- they might move on. The point is if one doesnt believe in God or an afterlife why do they complain that if he IS real they dont get to hang with him- it takes 2 to tango baby.

Sherri im not going to bother with the "Joy and Happiness" because if you see none of it in the Bible then you're clearly reading between the lines (at the blanks). I didnt brush off violence, intolerence and bloodshed...i acknowledged it- yet you fail to acknowledge any positivity found in the Bible - which to me shows that you either

A) Dont know the Bible- or

Ignore the more positive aspects of it

If you want poetry- go to my favourite chapters Psalms and Proverbs. Infact most good things are found in these chapters. Fantastic morals? You see none in the Bible? Again...Not going to bother- even the most skeptic say theres good in the Bible yet you clearly state its all bad...ALL BAD. Well by swallowing my pride i mean im admitting the Bible has some negative things in it- thats something more hardlined Christians dont even admit to- but its written there...text to paper....I'm not blind to it. Yet you are blinded from the Good things in the Bible and its a shame really. You say Christians have an extreme view from believing the Bible is the word of God and flawless- but you have an extreme view in believing the Bible is nothing but disfunctional- evil and negative.

Cool. So I could be okay.

*Sighs*

Thanks, ramster. I'm going to sleep a lot better tonight.

lol just be good.

Here's what I think...some good some bad but ALL of it a big myth

there is no myth about the heavens......if you do good with your life and also by others then you will know wat heaven is



InMyNature

So, when did you die, see what Heaven was like, and were brought back?


EDIT: In fact, seeing as you seem to know what Heaven is like, why did you bother coming back? Did you not "do good with your life and by others"? Was the Heaven you experienced not quite as appealing as you thought?

Proove it??

I read the first 4 pages of this thread, then just skipped to the last.

here's a question for ya: If all things happen for a reason (a reason by God's design) and all things are the will of God; than why accept medical treatment from human doctors? Isn't that like trying to cheat death/God?

If you are ill, you will either live or die; it will be God's will either way. Your attempt at having humans stop your spiral to death, is an attempt to get humans to stop God's will (an exorcize in futility). God is either going to let you die or not; it's all preordained by God and his design.

If God intended for you to die, you should accept that. If you fight death, you are attempting to fight God's will; this must certainly be a sin, or at least show your lack of faith.

On the exact same subject - people pray to God that their friend, relative, lover, doesn't die. And I ask why? God is either going to let that person die or not, your prayer won't change God's mind about his decision.

Also, on the same subject - If a person who was facing certain death, like cancer, or a traumatic car accident, and despite the doctor's prediction that they are going to die, they instead live; people will say "it's a miracle. It's a God given miracle. We should all thank God!" yet if this person had died, there would be no blaming God; there would only be Christians saying "oh, it was his time." If a miracle is the intervening of God, than how do we know it wasn't this persons destiny to live, and God intervened to cause death?

The answer to that is simple: if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen whether you pray or not. So stop praying. God won't change his master plan just because you asked nicely.

And on just a slightly different subject: If God wants you to worship him, than why doesn't he force you to do so? The typical answer is "God wants you to have a choice to worship him or not."

But I got a few problems with that statement. If God wanted you to have a choice, he wouldn't threaten you with eternal damnation. What kind of all powerful God needs to scare his subjects into worship?

And if all things be the will of God, and the future is written by God, than aren’t your actions also governed by God? of course they would be. So God has planed you to sin, God has planned you to disbelieve in him, God has planned to damn you before you were ever born. Where's that "Free Will" he was supposed to have given us?

All actions be the will of God, than so are my sins. To sin is to go against Gods will, yet all actions including that sin is God's will.

With Christians walking around, no wonder the world is so messed up. We live in a world of insanity governed by the insane.

Great post White Wolf it makes sense and yes if it's going to happen it will happen

I just laugh at those that try and dictate to the rest of us that are non christian..what WILL happen

I mean I believe in God but I sure can't sit here and tell people this is how it's going to be...my belief in God doesn't give me the right to speak for him....but a lot think it does

My daughter went to ride her bicycle the other day while it was snowing. I told her not to because she would slip and fall in the snow and hurt herself.

She didn't believe me, fell and scraped up her leg.

Now I feel justified in barring her from my home because she failed to believe me. Not cruel, its just.

And before you say you can't compare the two scenarios because we don't have the capacity to understand gods 'plans', my daughter couldn't know my plans for this weekend either. See, we were to go to a fancy party, but now her leg is bandaged from knee to ankle, foiling my plans.

And I've heard so many times that god is the father and we are his children.

Ramster, your god is proclaimed as ever loving, all forgiving,and creator of all, and the designer of free will but 'he' doesn't really forgive at all, does he? not without a price any way. Have you ever forgiven someone who wronged you? Even if they DIDN'T apologize or make reparations for their 'wrongdoing"? If you have, then that illustrates that you are greater than god, since "he" will only forgive your sins if you make 'reparations' by believing in him.

If it works for you, fine and dandy. But it leaves me rather cold.



-Good Journey

Well you all make good points. But wether your aethist or gothic, you beleive in nothing... but your still beleiving in nothing, so you beleive. Every one needs a bases a foundation or in other words a belief, and every one has one... if you say you dont then you really dont exist or deserve to live. I know I made like a hundred typos but thats not my point. My point is every one has a beleif, and so thats the bases of life... wow never thought I could write something like that.

That is not a statement of logic; it is a play on words. I’ll give you an example:
I ask you what is the opposite of not-white?
You respond with “white”.
I ask you “what’s the opposite of black?”
You answer “white.”
I say “I thought you just told me that the opposite of not-white is white? Now you tell me it’s black. Both can’t be true; thus you contradict yourself, my hypocritical friend.”

A grammatical game of chess, and logical deduction, are very different things. I beg you not to confuse them again

ramster, the most important things I asked, to have a dialogue with you, you refuse to address, I am aware of the proverbs and psalms, i don't find it poetic I have also said that the bible is a great lesson in what we aren't, when you really investigate and question , very little if anything from the bible holds true, i made bones no about it i think by itself it is a very poor model for humanity, Its about a 'god' that is conditional and cruel and vengeful, and needy in his love towards his creations, i see no 'joy' or 'happiness' in that.. the person tha ti want to be would not be cultivated by following the bible it would actually impede my progress .but if you do that is the important point.. for one as young and just starting out it seems ironic you would stop your investigations at the bible and call it a day...hmmm.namaste sheri

In reference to the original post, I think people do because self-preservation is instinctual.