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ShaunZero
QUOTE(frogfish @ Mar 6 2006, 01:52 AM) [snapback]1091334[/snapback]

They do have vaccines yes.gif Again, go do your Homework.
Oh, you want engines, eh? Rocket, jet, outboards didn't exist back then.


Vaccines aren't cures. They only prevent them.
StalingradK
QUOTE
Like I said I don't think you or anyone else has much of a clue about gravity especially if you still think it's a "magnetic force".


I used the "magnetic force" as an example so I could dumb things down for you. Everything has the same effect as a magnet. They have the ability to pull or force away from other atoms/ions when broken down to its simplest form. Like a magnet, when a mass of elements gets bigger, it creates its on gravitational pull because it has enough attraction to other elemental masses to hold them down. This work along with energy/thermal energy, and all that other stuff you despise to much because someone doesn't wanna pick up a book.

You know, if you took the time to really get the facts right, you might not believe in these stupid arse theories.
capeo
QUOTE(Rota @ Mar 6 2006, 12:57 PM) [snapback]1091738[/snapback]

Magnetic effect? As far as I know a magnet attracts metal to it but not anything else like paper or water. Also you can reverse a magnet and it will actually repell the metal. Gravity pulls on everything not just metal and don't know of anyway to reverse gravity. Isn't that what UFO are supposed to have mastered for space travel Anti Gravity? Like I said I don't think you or anyone else has much of a clue about gravity especially if you still think it's a "magnetic force".


Firstly, gravity is one of the best understood forces in physics and no it's not magnetic. Secondly, everything has a magnetic field. A strong enough magnet can attract anything. A huge magnetic field generator in London (I believe, I have to check) has kept spiders and frogs suspended in the field created. Electromagnetic theory is also well understood (thus just about every invention in last 180 years).

As for hollow moon? It's idiotic. I couldn't get through the article since the first paragraph talks about carbon dating rocks (a useless venture) that are billions of years old (C-14's half-life only allows for dating back to 50,000 years) and obviously written by someone with no scientific expertise. Also, the crust of the moon formed 20-30 million years after the formation of earth's crust (bolstering the impact theory) so a moon-rock older than that on its surface is a meteor.

EDIT: There's no reason to create an engine that doesn't use many of the same points as an engine designed in the 1900's, the point is clean burning fuel.
Rota
QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Mar 6 2006, 07:04 PM) [snapback]1091795[/snapback]

Vaccines aren't cures. They only prevent them.

You are right and even at that you are playing russian roulette when you take vacicnes since most are laced with mercury which is one of the deadliest poisons known to man. I maintain they won't cure anything. That's not to say I don't think they cannot come up with cures, I just don't think they want to.

Go study aspertaine which is in most foods and especially diet drinks. The FDA says it it is safe but if you believe that then you are nuts. That stuff is nasty and will mess DNA up. That right there should tell you something about trusting the "scientific community".
Rota
QUOTE(capeo @ Mar 6 2006, 08:19 PM) [snapback]1091845[/snapback]

Firstly, gravity is one of the best understood forces in physics and no it's not magnetic. Secondly, everything has a magnetic field. A strong enough magnet can attract anything. A huge magnetic field generator in London (I believe, I have to check) has kept spiders and frogs suspended in the field created. Electromagnetic theory is also well understood (thus just about every invention in last 180 years).

LOL....first you say gravity is not magnetic then you say if a magnet is strong enough it could attract anything which would make it the equal of gravity. I'm glad I'm talking to an expert like you so I can get more confused than ever about this topic. rolleyes.gif

QUOTE(capeo @ Mar 6 2006, 08:19 PM) [snapback]1091845[/snapback]
As for hollow moon? It's idiotic. I couldn't get through the article since the first paragraph talks about carbon dating rocks (a useless venture) that are billions of years old (C-14's half-life only allows for dating back to 50,000 years) and obviously written by someone with no scientific expertise. Also, the crust of the moon formed 20-30 million years after the formation of earth's crust (bolstering the impact theory) so a moon-rock older than that on its surface is a meteor.

You refuse to read the article but don't mind bashing what you refuse to read. Geez why didn't I ever think about debating like you? Just ignore the other side and ram my views down my opponents throat.
StalingradK
QUOTE
LOL....first you say gravity is not magnetic then you say if a magnet is strong enough it could attract anything which would make it the equal of gravity. I'm glad I'm talking to an expert like you so I can get more confused than ever about this topic.


Wow, you don't get the concept of using similar examples do you? Obviously you're the only one getting confused. I bet you couldn't even tell me what an atom or ion is... better yet what mass is.

Fragment:
QUOTE
first you say gravity is not magnetic then you say if a magnet is strong enough it could attract anything which would make it the equal of gravity.


I never said a magnet is equal to gravity. I used the effects to compare the similarities between the two. Magnets attract each other. So does mass. They both also have the power to repel from one another. I'm talking about gravity and using magnets to compare the two on a smaller scale. If you cannot comprehend that, go back to Middleschool.
capeo
QUOTE(Rota @ Mar 6 2006, 03:30 PM) [snapback]1091869[/snapback]

LOL....first you say gravity is not magnetic then you say if a magnet is strong enough it could attract anything which would make it the equal of gravity. I'm glad I'm talking to an expert like you so I can get more confused than ever about this topic. rolleyes.gif


It's two separate points, addressing two separate points you brought up. Magnetism and gravity do not work, at all, in the same manner. Can results seem similar in the sense of attraction? Sure, superficially, but the mechanics are entirely different. Picking up a junior high school physics book would sort this all out for you.

QUOTE(Rota @ Mar 6 2006, 03:30 PM) [snapback]1091869[/snapback]

You refuse to read the article but don't mind bashing what you refuse to read. Geez why didn't I ever think about debating like you? Just ignore the other side and ram my views down my opponents throat.


You're mistaken. On this point, I wasn't debating. The article starts with a blatant scientific misrepresentation about radiometric dating techniques. I'm not going to entertain ostensibly "scientific" theories from someone whose grasp of science is woefully poor.
capeo
QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Mar 6 2006, 02:04 PM) [snapback]1091795[/snapback]

Vaccines aren't cures. They only prevent them.


That's how diseases are cured. People are made immune, the virus or bacteria is without viable hosts to reproduce in, and it dies out with the generation of people that bore it.
Rota
QUOTE(capeo @ Mar 6 2006, 08:39 PM) [snapback]1091902[/snapback]

It's two separate points, addressing two separate points you brought up. Magnetism and gravity do not work, at all, in the same manner. Can results seem similar in the sense of attraction? Sure, superficially, but the mechanics are entirely different. Picking up a junior high school physics book would sort this all out for you.

How do you know what "constitutes gravity" when nobody knows for sure?

QUOTE(capeo @ Mar 6 2006, 08:39 PM) [snapback]1091902[/snapback]
You're mistaken. On this point, I wasn't debating. The article starts with a blatant scientific misrepresentation about radiometric dating techniques. I'm not going to entertain ostensibly "scientific" theories from someone whose grasp of science is woefully poor.

Real convenient to say they made a blatant scientific misrepresntation. are you some kind of expert on dating techniques? As far as I know even the experts argue about it.

Anyway how can you say an arguement has to agree with what you believe in? If everyone was like you then you won't even listen to their arguements unless the agree with you which wouldn't make it an agruement at all, just two people patting each other on the ass agreeing with each other. Hell you could just pick anything out in your opponents arguement you disagree with and say it's not worth discussing. Are you some kind of cowardly yellow belly or what?
capeo
QUOTE(Rota @ Mar 6 2006, 03:50 PM) [snapback]1091927[/snapback]

How do you know what "constitutes gravity" when nobody knows for sure?
Real convenient to say they made a blatant scientific misrepresntation. are you some kind of expert on dating techniques? As far as I know even the experts argue about it.

Anyway how can you say an arguement has to agree with what you believe in? If everyone was like you then you won't even listen to their arguements unless the agree with you which wouldn't make it an agruement at all, just two people patting each other on the ass agreeing with each other. Hell you could just pick anything out in your opponents arguement you disagree with and say it's not worth discussing. Are you some kind of cowardly yellow belly or what?


What are on about?
Gravity is curvature in spacetime. Where did I talk about its constitutes (though gravitons are postulated by string theory its extremely hard to do experiments on such a weak force). I did not. We do know exactly how it works, and can predict it's effects to extraordinarily accurate degrees though.

As for dating techniques? There is no argument or debate amongst experts. Radiometric techniques are founded on the guiding principle of radioactivity, which is radioactive decay.

Carbon dating is only useful when dating organic matter less than 50,000 years old. Uranium and Argon (amongst a host of others) are used to date rock. Carbon dating is useless to date rocks, so yes, someone who would discuss carbon-dating rocks on the moon quickly sets off my kook-radar.

What makes me an expert? Nothing, but I do read and keep up with science. You may want to try the first of those so you can at least formulate arguments based on valid grounds. You can't really debate something you don't understand, now can you?
frogfish
QUOTE
You are right and even at that you are playing russian roulette when you take vacicnes since most are laced with mercury which is one of the deadliest poisons known to man. I maintain they won't cure anything. That's not to say I don't think they cannot come up with cures, I just don't think they want to.

Go study aspertaine which is in most foods and especially diet drinks. The FDA says it it is safe but if you believe that then you are nuts. That stuff is nasty and will mess DNA up. That right there should tell you something about trusting the "scientific community".

You don't know anything abou modern medicine. I highly suggest you stop making up information to bash medicine. First of all, Vaccines do not contain Mercury. That metal is poisonous. Second, vaccines do cure diseases. They also prevent them. Prevention is the best cure. Like capeo said, the virus does not have anywhere to live if people are vaccinated, and they will die unless they develop resistance.
capeo
QUOTE(frogfish @ Mar 6 2006, 04:46 PM) [snapback]1092047[/snapback]

You don't know anything abou modern medicine. I highly suggest you stop making up information to bash medicine. First of all, Vaccines do not contain Mercury. That metal is poisonous. Second, vaccines do cure diseases. They also prevent them. Prevention is the best cure. Like capeo said, the virus does not have anywhere to live if people are vaccinated, and they will die unless they develop resistance.


What he is mistakenly refering to is thimerasol, a preservative used since the thirties in vaccines. It is metabolised into ethylmercury in the body. The amounts are minute and studies have shown them to be harmless (far less than eating a can of tuna, for instance) but recently there has been a push to find a different preservative since multiple vaccines are given to children when they are young and most suceptible to mercury damage. The main reasoning is that the toxicology of ethylmercury isn't well-known compared to its better known cousin methylmercury which is in fish and thermometers.
ShaunZero
QUOTE(capeo @ Mar 6 2006, 08:46 PM) [snapback]1091920[/snapback]

That's how diseases are cured. People are made immune, the virus or bacteria is without viable hosts to reproduce in, and it dies out with the generation of people that bore it.



Once someone has the disease, a vaccine won't get rid of it. That's not what I consider a cure.

I'd call what you're talking about "Preventing it from living".
capeo
QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Mar 6 2006, 05:13 PM) [snapback]1092098[/snapback]

Once someone has the disease, a vaccine won't get rid of it. That's not what I consider a cure.

I'd call what you're talking about "Preventing it from living".


The best one can hope for with viral diseases is putting the virus in dormancy or interfering with its ability to reproduce. Nothing will kill viruses that won't also kill the person harboring them. When it comes to cancer, we have made amazing strides and far more people survive it than in previous years. As for wiping such a disease out completely? There are as many environmental and genetic causes for it as possibly imaginable, it's no simple task.
Rota
Harmless? Sure it is. Just google it and I think you'll find many articles about how harmless it is

QUOTE
ROBERT KENNEDY JR.
Autism, mercury, and politics
By Robert Kennedy Jr. | July 1, 2005

MOUNTING EVIDENCE suggests that Thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative in children's vaccines, may be responsible for the exponential growth of autism, attention deficit disorder, speech delays, and other childhood neurological disorders now epidemic in the United States.

American infants generally received three vaccinations (polio, measles-mumps-rubella, and diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis). In the early 1990s, public health officials dramatically increased the number of Thimerosal-containing vaccinations without considering the cumulative impact of the mercury load on developing brains.

In a 1991 memo, Dr. Maurice Hilleman, one of the fathers of Merck's vaccination programs, warned his bosses that 6-month-old children administered the shots on schedule would suffer mercury exposures 87 times the government safety standards. He recommended that Thimerosal be discontinued and complained that the US Food and Drug Administration, which has a notoriously close relationship with the pharmaceutical industry, could not be counted on to take appropriate action as its European counterparts had. Merck ignored Hilleman's warning, and for eight years government officials added seven more shots for children containing Thimerosal.

Mercury is a known brain poison, and autism rates began rising dramatically in children who were administered the new vaccine regimens. A decade ago the American Academy of Pediatrics estimated the autism rate among American children to be 1 in 2,500. Today, the CDC places the rate at 1 in 166, or 1 in 80 boys. Additionally, one in six children is now diagnosed with a related neurological disorder.

In 2000, the CDC met with pharmaceutical companies and the FDA in secret to review its findings linking Thimerosal with the dramatic rise in neurological illnesses. According to transcripts, participants were alarmed about the undeniable links between the Thimerosal and widespread brain damage in children. Dr. Bill Weil told the group, ''You can play with [the results] all you want. They are statistically significant." Dr. Richard Johnston admitted he feared his grandchild getting a Thimerosal-containing vaccine. But the group was most concerned with keeping the findings secret. ''Consider this embargoed information," said Dr. Roger Bernier, a senior director at the National Immunization Program, at the meeting's close. The CDC now says it has ''lost" the data that supported the crucial study and has persistently defied congressional requests and federal law requiring it to open up the federal Vaccine Safety Database to scientists and the public.

Numerous animal, DNA, epidemiological, and other studies point to Thimerosal as a culprit in America's epidemic of neurological disorders. Autistic children have been shown to have higher mercury loads than nonautistics, and there have been reports of significant improvements in some brain-injured children by removing mercury from their brains. Most of the symptoms of autism are similar to the symptoms of mercury poisoning. Scientists have been able to induce autism-like symptoms in mice by exposing them to Thimerosal. A recent study by an FDA scientist, Dr. Jill James, found that many autistic children are genetically deficient in their capacity to produce glutathione, an antioxidant generated in the brain that helps remove mercury from the body.

Government health agencies who green-lighted Thimerosal have turned a blind eye to the hundreds of studies linking Thimerosal to a wide range of neurological disorders and joined the pharmaceutical industry to gin up a series of flawed European studies to exonerate Thimerosal. Those studies examined children exposed to a tiny fraction of the Thimerosal given to American kids and took advantage of the autism spike that resulted from deceptive data-gathering in Scandinavia to argue that autism rates are unrelated to Thimerosal use.

Drug makers wary of liability reduced Thimerosal in most children's vaccines in recent years, but the preservative remains in flu shots, tetanus boosters, and over-the-counter drugs. Mercury-laced vaccine stocks were given to American children until the end of 2003.

Government officials who continue to champion Thimerosal should recognize that this is not just a theoretical exercise in bureaucratic face-saving. Their wrong-headed defense of Thimerosal safety in the face of overwhelming science is discouraging testing of promising treatments which may be effective. They are depriving vulnerable populations from being identified to avoid Thimerosal. They also cannot escape responsibility for their failure to warn international health agencies and governments who, based upon American assurances, are now injecting the developing world's children with this brain-killing chemical.

Robert Kennedy Jr. is senior attorney for the Natural Resources Defense Council.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial...y_and_politics/
Rota
QUOTE(capeo @ Mar 6 2006, 09:10 PM) [snapback]1091978[/snapback]


Carbon dating is only useful when dating organic matter less than 50,000 years old. Uranium and Argon (amongst a host of others) are used to date rock. Carbon dating is useless to date rocks, so yes, someone who would discuss carbon-dating rocks on the moon quickly sets off my kook-radar.



So you admit they can date rocks with other methods? You hold it against some guy because he mistakenly called it carbon dating? I suppose you have never made a small mistake and can throw rocks at those that do.

In the end the moon rocks were dated by some method so it does not detract one bit from the main arguement he trys to make. Quit nic-picking and concentrate on his main arguement Gomer Pyle.
StalingradK
Can we get this over with? The moon can't be hollow. It would implode but without a cool explosion. It would just crumble upon its self and float off into space. If the moon was hollow and by some magical way it stayed together, it would fly right into Earth because it would not have enough mass to stay in orbit.
frogfish
Agreed, case closed.
angrycrustacean
Edited for own stupidity. happy.gif
Rota
The moon isn't hollow because you determine it's just too much out of the box to think about it....O.K. if it makes everyone more comfortable to crawl back in a box and wait until "Experts" tell you something different. thumbsup.gif
angrycrustacean
So what do you want, Rota? Do you want every single bit of known science to not be trusted?

Well, science tells us that these computers run on electricity: But you can't trust science, so clearly they are in fact run by microscopic unicorns!
Rota
QUOTE(angrycrustacean @ Mar 7 2006, 12:59 AM) [snapback]1092359[/snapback]

So what do you want, Rota? Do you want every single bit of known science to not be trusted?

Well, science tells us that these computers run on electricity: But you can't trust science, so clearly they are in fact run by microscopic unicorns!

You compare what we know about something we ourselves invented with something we had nothing to do with? I'm not saying the moon is or is not hollow but there are some strange things occuring up there that cannot be explained by what the excepted theory about the moon could explain.

I just find it funny that a website that should attract open minded people willing to think outside the box or at least discuss things outside the box feel more comfortable parroting what they are told to think by so called experts who have time and again been proven to be willing liars who at the drop of a hat will cover things up for their money masters. If I were the King of the World I'd love you conforming minions. LOL
StalingradK
QUOTE
You compare what we know about something we ourselves invented with something we had nothing to do with? I'm not saying the moon is or is not hollow but there are some strange things occuring up there that cannot be explained by what the excepted theory about the moon could explain.

I just find it funny that a website that should attract open minded people willing to think outside the box or at least discuss things outside the box feel more comfortable parroting what they are told to think by so called experts who have time and a gain been proven to be willing liars who at the drop of a hat will cover things up for their money masters. If I were the King of the World I'd love you conforming minions. LOL


Having an open mind, I have more of an open mind than you. Denying almost all basic facts is not having an open mind. You're basically saying "this guy noes more than j000 noobs cayse he is teh pwnage" and going against all science, facts, and common sense ok, we have the closed minds. rolleyes.gif There is a HUGEEEEEEEEEEE difference between having an open mind and and having no common sense.
Rota
QUOTE(StalingradK @ Mar 7 2006, 01:20 AM) [snapback]1092400[/snapback]

Having an open mind, I have more of an open mind than you.

No you don't. My mind is open enough to have read the article.

QUOTE(StalingradK @ Mar 7 2006, 01:20 AM) [snapback]1092400[/snapback]
Denying almost all basic facts is not having an open mind.

Basic facts? There are no proven facts about the moon only that it is there. Now there are many theories from so called expert down to just average people like me.

QUOTE(StalingradK @ Mar 7 2006, 01:20 AM) [snapback]1092400[/snapback]
You're basically saying "this guy noes more than j000 noobs cayse he is teh pwnage" and going against all science, facts, and common sense ok, we have the closed minds. rolleyes.gif There is a HUGEEEEEEEEEEE difference between having an open mind and and having no common sense.

Where in the hell do you get that? I never said I believe the moon is hollow. I just asked people to discuss this guys interesting theory. He could be wrong or right just like the government lackies who you consider experts. I haven't made my mind up yet. When more information is discovered maybe I could say for sure one way or another. Unlike you I'm keeping an open mind about it.
StalingradK
Throughout our "feud" I have given many reasons the moon cannot be hollow, so have other people. Is it not proof enough? And you obviously have atleast a little faith in this article because you have been defending it since for ever and you posted it.

I mean come on, the article proposes the moon may be man made.

QUOTE
Basic facts? There are no proven facts about the moon only that it is there. Now there are many theories from so called expert down to just average people like me.


Yes, but I just explained gravity too. Just because you say we don't know anything about it, does not make you right. We know very much about gravity and how we hold the moon in orbit (earth). If the mmon was hollow, it could not do that.
frogfish
QUOTE
The moon isn't hollow because you determine it's just too much out of the box to think about it

QUOTE
Basic facts? There are no proven facts about the moon only that it is there. Now there are many theories from so called expert down to just average people like me.

QUOTE
No you don't. My mind is open enough to have read the article.

QUOTE
He could be wrong or right just like the government lackies who you consider experts. I haven't made my mind up yet. When more information is discovered maybe I could say for sure one way or another. Unlike you I'm keeping an open mind about it.

QUOTE
You compare what we know about something we ourselves invented with something we had nothing to do with? I'm not saying the moon is or is not hollow but there are some strange things occuring up there that cannot be explained by what the excepted theory about the moon could explain.

I just find it funny that a website that should attract open minded people willing to think outside the box or at least discuss things outside the box feel more comfortable parroting what they are told to think by so called experts who have time and again been proven to be willing liars who at the drop of a hat will cover things up for their money masters. If I were the King of the World I'd love you conforming minions. LOL

Just an assortment of unintelligent comments made by Rota. Rota, this is for intelligent debate, not uneducated, insuloting, conspiracists. Go do your Homework boy, then come back. Or I suggest going back to school. Maybe start out with a HS level biology course.
Aristocrates
^^^

let people say what they want to say, it is an OPEN forum. You got to let everyone speak, no matter how extuciatingly unintelligent it may be
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