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Rota
Most of you don't seem to think the earth is hollow so what about the Moon? I was just reading this interesting article about how the moon might be hollow and it seems credable. I won't link it to the source since some of you get so upset about about those type things, but if you really want to find it just google it and I'm sure you'll find the offensive site.

QUOTE
The Moon - What Is It
And Who Made It?

Ted Twietmeyer
tedtw@frontiernet.net
2-19-6

New research shows that our Moon is much older than originally thought. It may also be far older than either the Earth or our Sun. Our Earth is estimated to be 4.6 billion years old. However, Moon rocks brought back by Apollo were dated at 5.3 billion years old, and the dust upon which they rested was about one billion years older. Who put it there and why? Can carbon dating pf moon rocks be that far off? Perhaps, but far more evidence of the satellite's unusual history and characteristics have been out there all along - hidden in plain sight as we shall see.




http://www.solarviews.com/cap/moon/moon1.htm
Apollo 17 Moon View (NASA)


In a past article (April 17th 2004 - "Our Solar System Is No Accident" [1]) I stated that the Moon must have an artificial origin, since no natural explanation has proven viable for it's existence. Let us explore what science might be available to further this concept. There is a very large body of evidence that clearly shows something strange is connected with this orbiting body. Yet none of this data has ever been publicly explored or discussed in documentaries.

We will begin with the known statistics of our satellite: [2]

Though not listed above, the Moon is also suspected to have multiple magnetic fields. This theory was the result of researching satellite probe data. It is important to keep this in mind for later discussion. (The exact origin of the Earth's magnetic field is has not been established.)

For readers who may not be aware, the Moon provides important timing functions for tides to control Earth processes. Without tides, it is believed that the world's oceans would have almost no life, drastically affecting the food chain for our planet. Science already knows that tides control the behavior and life cycles of shore and sea-based creatures. These include various species of fish, sea turtles, penguins and many more that use tide cycles for planting eggs. Mechanically, the Moon also acts like a huge flywheel stabilizing the Earth's rotation. Recently the wobble in the Earth's rotation has abruptly ceased with no explanation from the science community as of this writing. Could the Moon have caused this to happen?

MOONQUAKES

Various theories have been attributed to the Moon's origin. However, there is a silence from NASA regarding the seismographic instrument data that Apollo left behind - Moonquakes are taking place on our nearest neighbor. This equipment could run for many decades, as each installation is powered by a radioactive isotope thermal generator. Even more strange are that these events are taking place on the far side. This was discovered more than 20 years ago. Could there be a connection to the Earth's wobble and the presence or absence of Moonquakes? This has yet to be proven.

A planetary sciences meeting was chaired by P R Stoddard, Department of Geology and Environmental Geosciences, Northern Illinois University; R C Elphic, Los Alamos National Laboratory in August of 1985. A large body of evidence was provided which showed some very odd events taking place on the Moon. [3]

Studies regarding Moonquakes and magnetic "anomalies" (a word virtually patented by NASA for an unplanned "event or observation") show strange things are taking place on our silver neighbor. In the meeting, a paper was presented by Nakamura, Y. Institute for Geophysics, University of Texas at Austin titled "Deep Moonquakes: Remaining Problems."
Here is an extract of their research paper summary. They state the center of the Moon may be hollow. My explanation of scientific terms are enclosed ini [ ]:

"We have recently reexamined more than 9000 previously unidentified seismic events catalogued during the Apollo landing missions and positively identified for the first time about 30 deep Moonquake nests on the far side of the Moon. Although only a few of them are currently locatable, the relative arrival times among stations for the rest and presence or absence of seismic signals at particular stations suggest that either:

(a) The region within about 40 degrees of the antipode [a point on the opposite side] is aseismic [a place where no Moonquakes have ever been observed.]

(cool.gif Or the deep interior of the Moon severely attenuates or deflects seismic waves.
In (cool.gif above, this could make sense if the deep interior is hollow. Aside from the obvious question of how to distinguish between such hypothetical models, this effort raised several more general questions concerning the use of deep Moonquake signals to infer the structure and dynamics of the deep interior of the Moon... "

MAGNETIC FIELDS OF UNKNOWN ORIGIN

Another paper titled "Correlations Between Magnetic Anomalies and Surface Geology Antipodal to Lunar Impact Basins" was also presented by Richmond, N C, Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics, Scripps Institution of Oceanography, University of California and Hood, L L, Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, University of Arizona, Tucson. The summary for this paper states "Previous work has shown that the strongest concentrations of lunar crustal magnetic anomalies [magnetized areas] are located antipodal [opposite sides of the Moon] to four large, similarly aged impact basins (Orientale, which is furrowed and pitted terrane and Serenitatis, Imbrium which is material of grooves and mounds and Crisium).

Only these areas have been selected due to:

a) Limited Lunar Prospector magnetometer data coverage of the area antipodal to Serenitatis [name of a crater] and
cool.gif The location of the Crisium antipode, which is dominated by ejecta deposits from the more recent Orientale impact.

Here, we report results of a correlation study between magnetic anomaly clusters and geology in areas antipodal to Imbrium and Orientale...This is supported by an observed lack of demagnetisation associated with the 61 km Copernican-aged O'Day crater at the edge of Mare Ingenii, which suggests a deep source for the anomalies [unexplainable magnetized areas.] Possible source materials and the origin of the magnetisation will be discussed at the conference."

Put in simplified terms, this paper showed that magnetized areas were found on the OPPOSITE side of the Moon from large craters. The data was obtained from the orbiting Lunar Prospector satellite. Yet in the absence of an overall planetary magnetic field (magnetosphere) no one can determine how this magnetization could happen. Perhaps a meteorite hitting the Moon is like striking an iron rod, which if done just right can align the molecules to form a magnet. The problem here is that the area the researchers are talking about is 2,000 miles away from the crater - on the opposite side of the Moon!
Molten magnetite rock on Earth is well known to have molecules aligned to the Earth's magnetic field while cooling. This pattern is permanently retained and has helped scientists to determine when and how often the Earth's magnetic poles have flipped. Unfortunately, no magnetosphere encompassing the entire Moonhas been detected as of this writing.
Among the other papers at the conference was yet another titled "Lunar magnetic anomalies in the solar wind: Possible existence of mini-magnetosphere" written by Kurata, M of the Tokyo Institute of Technology, Tsunakawa, H also of the Tokyo Institute of Technology, and Saito, Y of the The Institute of Space and Astronautical Science.


Here is an extract of that paper's summary:


"It has been suggested that lunar magnetic anomaly fields are interacted with the solar wind plasma to form the mini-magnetosphere on the lunar surface...Lin et al.(1998) pointed out that a mini-magnetosphere was formed in the solar wind downstream of the strong magnetic anomaly in Imbrium antipode region... If the mini-magnetosphere exists on the lunar surface deflects solar wind particles, its role of barrier could produce a high-albedo region around the magnetic anomaly. In this study, we mainly investigate magnetic anomaly fields in the solar wind at low-altitude (15-40 km) with a data of level 1.


We detected lunar magnetic anomalies after preprocessing of the level 1 data... In the present study, magnetic anomalies were mapped from the data sets in the tail lobe, the Moon wake and the solar wind, and were compared with each other... Its contour pattern of magnetic field intensities in the tail lobe or the wake is almost symmetrical with respect to the north-south line. However, such symmetry [of the magnetic field] is obviously distorted in the solar wind to show some elongation toward the downstream of the solar wind. Also, the form of distortion [of the magnetic field] seems to be changed when the solar wind conditions (dynamic pressure, the angle of incidence, and so on) are different. These results may support existence of the mini-magnetosphere in Reiner Gamma region. We will discuss the possible mini-magnetosphere comparing the LP MAG data with the ACE data of the solar wind."


The above summary tells us that a solar wind appears be affected by a mini-magnetosphere! Yet other researchers claim this field cannot exist! Perhaps the true nature and characteristics of the solar wind are not fully understood. Many other papers and studies exist that use data collected by NASA instrumentation which we cannot cover here. The general public is completely unaware of most of these papers, as scientists tend to stay within their own disciplines (and circles of friends) for peer review.


RESONANCE


When the spent Lunar Landers were commanded to crash into the Moon from orbit, the Moon rang for an unexpected period of time. The first time was on November 20, 1969 and it used the lander for the Apollo 12. The seismographs left behind caused the Moon to ring for more than an hour. Apollo thirteen's third stage impact on the Moon was even more incredible. Reverberations lasted for three hours and twenty minutes, down to an estimated depth of twenty-five miles. This ringing seems to suggest the Moon may have no core at all.


STRANGE MATERIALS AND SHAPES




http://www.solarviews.com/cap/moon/clmsouth.htm
Lunar South Pole (NASA)


This mosaic is composed of 1,500 Clementine images of the south polar region of the Moon. The top half of the mosaic faces Earth. One can easily see a counter-clockwise, swirl-like pattern of craters. Is this pattern the result of random impacts of over eons of time or just an illusion?

The lunar crust is also much harder than previously thought. Astronauts had difficulty when drilling for samples on the Lunar surface (maria.) The maria is composed primarily illeminite, a mineral containing large amounts of titanium which is an extremely hard metal, and quickly wears out the best machine tool bits. Titanium is also very light in weight, like aluminum. Uranium 236 and neptunium 237 (elements not normally found on Earth) were discovered in lunar rocks. How did these elements get there? If one were to argue they were formed on the Moon, then how did this happen?






http://www.solarviews.com/cap/moon/moondust.htm
Orange colored glass spheres and other fragments from Apollo 17, which is actually dust under high magnification.


The particles shown range from 20 to 45 microns, and was brought back from the Taurus-Littrow landing site. Scientist-Astronaut Harrison J. Schmitt discovered the dusty orange soil at Shorty Crater. The orange particles are mixed with black grains of other material, and are about the same size as the particles that compose silt on Earth. Chemical analysis of the orange soil material revealed it is similar to samples from the Apollo 11 landing area (Sea of Tranquility) site several hundred miles to the southwest. Like Apollo 11 samples, Apollo 17 samples are also rich in titanium (8%) and iron oxide (22%). Unlike the Apollo 11 samples this orange soil is also unexplainably rich in zinc. The orange soil is probably of volcanic origin and not the product of meteorite impact. (NASA)
The question is - could volcanic action have existed on the Moon? It remains unproven if the Moon ever had volcanoes in the ancient past.

ORBITAL ODDITY

Ours is the only Moon in the solar system with a stationary, circular orbit which is almost perfectly circular. The Moon,s center of gravity is approximately 6000 feet closer to the Earth than its geometric center. This should make the Moon wobble but it does not. The resultant bulge is located on the far side of the Moon, opposite the side facing our Earth. It begs to ask the question - who or what put the Moon into correct orbit? Who or what established the perfect velocity? This is clearly no accident.

POSSIBLE FIRST SIGHTING OF THE MOON BY MAN AND FLASHES OF LIGHT
One of the most fascinating of the lunar observations are flashes of light. Ancient authors such as Aristotle and Plutarch wrote about a group called the Proselenes of Greece. This group claims to have existed before the Moon was in orbit. Heiroglyphs found near the city of Tiahuanaco, Bolivia record the Moon entering into orbit about 11,500 to 13,000 years ago.


Other historians and writers such as Aristarchus, Plato, Eratosthenes, Biela, Rabbi Levi, and Posidonius all reported anomalous lights on the Moon. One year before the first Apollo landing, NASA reported that more than 570 flashes were observed on the Moon over more than 400 years, from 1540 to 1967.


On July 29, 1953, John J. O,Neill observed a 12-mile-long bridge straddling the crater Mare Crisium. In August, British astronomer Dr. H.P. Wilkens verified its presence, "It looks artificial. It,s almost incredible that such a thing could have been formed in the first instance, or if it was formed, could have lasted during the ages in which the Moon has been in existence.


An obelisk-shaped object that towers 1 miles from the Ukert area of the Moon,s surface, was discovered by Orbiter 3 in 1968. Dr. Bruce Cornet, who studied the amazing photographs, stated, "No known natural process can explain such a structure."
One of the most curious features ever photographed on the Lunar surface (Lunar Orbiter photograph III-84M) is an amazing spire that rises more than 5 miles from the Sinus Medii region of the lunar surface.


The Obelisks: Lunar Orbiter II took several photographs in November 1966 that showed several obelisks, one of which was more than 150 feet tall. ". . . the spires were arranged in precisely the same was as the apices of the three great pyramids." [4]


SUMMARY

Almost everything we look at with regard to the Moon does not fit any known natural method of formation. Either our neighbor is artificial, or it is not. Scientists everywhere continue to find oddities that strongly indicate artificial origin. If it is artificial, what does this say about our Earth's origins? Could life have been sustained on our Earth if the Moon was not in orbit before 13,500 years ago? Everything we know about the mechanism and cycle of life in our oceans indicates it could not. To form an object the size of our Moon requires physics, engineering and materials manufacturing technology far beyond anything we can imagine today. Are the depressionas and deep holes we casually label as craters without giving it a second thought - actually craters?

Perhaps one day the Moon's creators will land on Earth to see what our progress is. Then they will takeoff again to go dust off their creation with a wave of their hand over a control panel? That's all fine and dandy - as long as they don't kidnap the "man in the Moon."
Summer nights would never be the same again without him...

Ted Twietmeyer

Inventor, engineer and frequent rense.com contributor, Mr. Twietmeyer is author of "What NASA Isn't Telling You About Mars" which is available at
www.data4science.net/book

REFERENCES
[1] "Our Solar System Is No Accident" -
http://www.rense.com/general51/solar.htm
[2] Moon statistics -
http://www.solarviews.com/eng/moon.htm#stats
[3] Moon conference details -
http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm04/fm04-sess.../fm04_P23A.html
[4] Strange Moon Facts -
http://www.informantnews.com/starshipgamma/lunar/moon2.html
StalingradK
Make the stupid theories stop! -screams-
Agent. Mulder
interesting theory. kinda hard to beleive though i think. i mean, the moons gotta be a whole giant solid rock right. how could it be made hollow?
Lin
Must you create such mammoth posts?
I only came here to say. "Well, that makes it easier for Manegarm to swallow..." however I notice something now...STALINGRAD!
thecreeper
QUOTE(StalingradK @ Feb 26 2006, 02:36 PM) [snapback]1080580[/snapback]

Make the stupid theories stop! -screams-

please don't scream, but the 'hollow earth" and "hollow moon" theories are silly, I heard of a hollow mars theory
Lilly
The Moon simply can't be hollow. How do we know this? Because back during the Apollo missions space craft were in orbit around the Moon. How a space craft orbits in the Moon's gravity tells us about the mass of the Moon. One can also mathematically determine the size of the Moon, which means one can work out the density of the moon. It's flat out not possible for the Moon to be hollow....period.

sonofkrypton
if we ever went to the moon lilly original.gif
i also read in a book somewhere that there are some ancient civilisations (not sure who) that speak or tell of the moons arrival in orbit.
the reason for the differing magnetic poles could possibly be is it's passage through different solar systems and maybe it's hollow because it was needed to stabilise our planet so that life could prosper et al we are part of a gigantic experiment those are just a few ideas to be going along with original.gif
Reepa
QUOTE
In a past article (April 17th 2004 - "Our Solar System Is No Accident" [1]) I stated that the Moon must have an artificial origin, since no natural explanation has proven viable for it's existence.


The moon was formed the same way as every other heavenly body, i will not go into a detailed explanation as its just not worth the effort as i believe 99% of the people on this forum are intelligent to know this anyway.

If the moon was hollow it would not have the mass to sustain a regular orbit and would eventually drift out into space.

There may be vast caverns inside the moon but i very much doubt that the moon is hollow
DieChecker
I thought the moon was created by a collision with a small planet. The impact threw a lot of crust and mantle material into orbit. The slowly cooling moon then had some vulcanism before it settled down to what it is today.

I too do not think that the moon is hollow. I'm not sure about the "Structures" on the moon. Most look to me to be coincidental natural geography, ridges, craters, lavaflows and what not.

Also I believe the astronauts did experiments using seismic waves to find the density of the moon. This is of course dependant on believing that they did the experiments and even that the USA ever got to the moon.

I think we did and it is just as they say it is.
artymoon
Oh great! Now the moon is hollow too. There's enough hollowness going around already, especially in peoples' heads.
Ciraxis
the moon isn't hollow people, its made of cheese.
Knightmeir
QUOTE(sonofkrypton @ Feb 27 2006, 04:30 AM) [snapback]1081577[/snapback]

if we ever went to the moon lilly original.gif
i also read in a book somewhere that there are some ancient civilisations (not sure who) that speak or tell of the moons arrival in orbit.
the reason for the differing magnetic poles could possibly be is it's passage through different solar systems and maybe it's hollow because it was needed to stabilise our planet so that life could prosper et al we are part of a gigantic experiment those are just a few ideas to be going along with original.gif


Man is FAR too stupid to have ever achieved a lunar landing. rolleyes.gif
The fact that people STILL believe we didn't land on the moon is beyond me. Researchers have gone to great lengths to show the genius moon-landing skeptics WHY pictures look the way they do, as well as explaining the technology, etc...

Yeah, the moon is actually the death star. It was moved into orbit a long, long time ago...

I can't see how the reasoning behind it being hollow would be a requirement for life on earth to sustain itself.
Rykster
Hollow Moon, Hollow Earth, Many more Hollow Heads.
frogfish
Wow, what a totally idiotic article. I found sooo many faults in that, the list can stretch to the moon and back thumbsup.gif
Sanjuro
Moon's in not hollow, but no one knows what is inside of it, for example why once in 30min a signal comes out of moon's center? Why after 70km there is metal casting around it(scientists are not sure though)?
Hypotesis about moon's structure is right of every people, because fact is that - that its not explored and there is no technology to scan it from earth.

Might as well it can be a spaceship or big potato. tongue.gif
frogfish
QUOTE
Moon's in not hollow, but no one knows what is inside of it, for example why once in 30min a signal comes out of moon's center? Why after 70km there is metal casting around it(scientists are not sure though)?

Where did you get this information? Sounds like another stupid anomality to me. The moon has rock inside. The moon is no longer active, so its core and mantle are all solid rock. There is also a layer of ice below the crust. WE KNOW what is inside, it is that some idiots choose to ignore that.

The moon basically is a dead rock..it is no longer geologically active
Sanjuro
QUOTE(frogfish @ Feb 27 2006, 04:42 PM) [snapback]1081946[/snapback]

Where did you get this information? Sounds like another stupid anomality to me. The moon has rock inside. The moon is no longer active, so its core and mantle are all solid rock. There is also a layer of ice below the crust. WE KNOW what is inside, it is that some idiots choose to ignore that.

The moon basically is a dead rock..it is no longer geologically active

I dont argue with kids who insult persons insted of making arguments..
Saxon
QUOTE(Sanjuro @ Feb 27 2006, 04:40 PM) [snapback]1081941[/snapback]

Moon's in not hollow, but no one knows what is inside of it, for example why once in 30min a signal comes out of moon's center? Why after 70km there is metal casting around it(scientists are not sure though)?


Might as well it can be a spaceship or big potato. tongue.gif


where do you people come up with these wierd ideas?... have you ever read anything 'real' about the Moon? getting all your information from UFO sites isn't a good thing... no.gif

QUOTE
Hypotesis about moon's structure is right of every people, because fact is that - that its not explored and there is no technology to scan it from earth.


REAL information comes from the Lunar Prospectoer Probe (1998),which used gravity measurements and the Passive Seismic Experiments on the Appollo missions 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16. Also NASA scientists have carried out calculations using mass and rate of spin.
LiQuiD_FuSioN
QUOTE(Knightmeir @ Feb 27 2006, 04:29 PM) [snapback]1081843[/snapback]

Man is FAR too stupid to have ever achieved a lunar landing. rolleyes.gif
The fact that people STILL believe we didn't land on the moon is beyond me. Researchers have gone to great lengths to show the genius moon-landing skeptics WHY pictures look the way they do, as well as explaining the technology, etc...

Yeah, the moon is actually the death star. It was moved into orbit a long, long time ago...

I can't see how the reasoning behind it being hollow would be a requirement for life on earth to sustain itself.


I certainly hope you're not being serious..
sonofkrypton
all i'll say is this *puts his hand up as if to defend himself* all the people on this thread who support a ''the moon is a normal dead rock'' all say, all we need to explain the moon is to look at a government funded project's website at a govenment funded project for the ''TRUTH'' like i believe Arthur C clarke said ''the biggest mystery is to take so many years to get to the moon then abandon it once we get there or something like that i think there's plenty of evidence around for us to take what is told by such agencies with a pinch of salt
Saxon
QUOTE(sonofkrypton @ Feb 27 2006, 06:27 PM) [snapback]1082089[/snapback]

all i'll say is this *puts his hand up as if to defend himself* all the people on this thread who support a ''the moon is a normal dead rock'' all say, all we need to explain the moon is to look at a government funded project's website at a govenment funded project for the ''TRUTH'' like i believe Arthur C clarke said ''the biggest mystery is to take so many years to get to the moon then abandon it once we get there or something like that i think there's plenty of evidence around for us to take what is told by such agencies with a pinch of salt


oh, a sci-fi writer thinks its fishy the Americans didn't bankrupt themselves exploring a boring lump of blasted rock... well that's enough proof for me... the moon must really be hollow... no.gif
frogfish
QUOTE
I dont argue with kids who insult persons insted of making arguments..

Ha, like you have an arguement! Unlike you, I actually use and believe facts!



QUOTE
all i'll say is this *puts his hand up as if to defend himself* all the people on this thread who support a ''the moon is a normal dead rock'' all say, all we need to explain the moon is to look at a government funded project's website at a govenment funded project for the ''TRUTH'' like i believe Arthur C clarke said ''the biggest mystery is to take so many years to get to the moon then abandon it once we get there or something like that i think there's plenty of evidence around for us to take what is told by such agencies with a pinch of salt

Conspiracist...So do you have any proof? That is actually accepted by the scientifc community?
Knightmeir
QUOTE(Saxon @ Feb 27 2006, 12:39 PM) [snapback]1082112[/snapback]

oh, a sci-fi writer thinks its fishy the Americans didn't bankrupt themselves exploring a boring lump of blasted rock... well that's enough proof for me... the moon must really be hollow... no.gif


Good point.

That's like me taking every dime I ever make, save it all up, just to spend it on a 3 day trip to a plot in the middle of the Sahara 100 feet in diameter, and then go back for seconds.

Sure, the moon might be a little more interesting than that, but until we have the funding to actually build something there for extensive research, then there is no point in going back.
Saxon
QUOTE(Knightmeir @ Feb 27 2006, 07:11 PM) [snapback]1082168[/snapback]

Good point.

That's like me taking every dime I ever make, save it all up, just to spend it on a 3 day trip to a plot in the middle of the Sahara 100 feet in diameter, and then go back for seconds.

Sure, the moon might be a little more interesting than that, but until we have the funding to actually build something there for extensive research, then there is no point in going back.


it's only slightly more interesting since we now believe there's H2O there... and might lead to a Lunar base... then a possible manned mission to Mars... a manned expedition to Mars would be a worth while thing 'IMHO' we might finally solve the real mystery... did life ever exist there...
Aristocrates
if u guys are so sure that the moon isn't artificial, then tell me this...why is our moon almost perfectly round and circular while other moons are not?
jjtss
I confess, I started the hollow moon legend back in 1981. I was working with a NASA subcontractor in Huntsville then. A group of us used to gather for "happy hour" and discuss anomalies, like alien abductions. We were trying to rationalize the lost time people experience, and their stories of extensive physical exams in very large spaces. I had just seen Star Wars so I offered the explanation that the moon was a battle star. What the hey, makes as much sense as any other explanations offered, like dimensional jumps.
w00t.gif w00t.gif
ps: Don't care if you believe it or not. It happened.
Rota
QUOTE(frogfish @ Feb 27 2006, 07:04 PM) [snapback]1082149[/snapback]

Ha, like you have an arguement! Unlike you, I actually use and believe facts!
Conspiracist...So do you have any proof? That is actually accepted by the scientifc community?

So you can't think for yourself without permission from the "scientific community" who are pigs at the government money troff? I personnaly don't listen to cowards who won't even come forward and discuss many things the government doesn't want them to.

I'm also curious why a person like you actually comes to a web site like this? Seems to me you have to have an open mind to look at different explanations to the world around us. If all you do is tow the government line then why don't you just go read dot gov sites?
Aristocrates
^^^

agreed grin2.gif
StalingradK
QUOTE
So you can't think for yourself without permission from the "scientific community" who are pigs at the government money troff? I personnaly don't listen to cowards who won't even come forward and discuss many things the government doesn't want them to.

I'm also curious why a person like you actually comes to a web site like this? Seems to me you have to have an open mind to look at different explanations to the world around us. If all you do is tow the government line then why don't you just go read dot gov sites?


I love this "you have a closed mind" case. Rota, there is a difference between real theories, and Half-Witted Crack-Pot Theroies where people come up with the the most idiotic ideas to make money and get publisized. Rota, do you also disagree with the Laws of Physics and how the Tides work too? rofl.gif It seems you deny the most basic concepts of how things work on earth since you don't like science all that much.
Aristocrates
^^^

as far as i know, no one has made money off this crack-pot idea...and noone has answered my question, 'how come our moon is so perfectly round, and spherical while other moons like the ones around Jupiter and Saturn are not?'
StalingradK
Because the surface is like sand and it evens out unlike most over rocky planet like surface moons. How would it be artifically made anyways? LOL It's been up there for a long long time.
Rota
QUOTE(StalingradK @ Mar 5 2006, 06:49 PM) [snapback]1090893[/snapback]

I love this "you have a closed mind" case. Rota, there is a difference between real theories, and Half-Witted Crack-Pot Theroies where people come up with the the most idiotic ideas to make money and get publisized.

Naturally that goes with the territory but you are hanging your hat with a scientific communtity that can't even cure the common cold.

They have sqaundered billions of dollars searching for cures to all kinds of diseases and have found zilch. Then they have found nothing to replace the engine for the poluting car. An engine I might add that was invented in the early 1900's. Tell me why you trust a bunch of goinks who as far as I can tell can only claim to have invented nucleur weapons? I just don't see much from these fools for the money thrown their way.

QUOTE(StalingradK @ Mar 5 2006, 06:49 PM) [snapback]1090893[/snapback]
Rota, do you also disagree with the Laws of Physics and how the Tides work too? rofl.gif It seems you deny the most basic concepts of how things work on earth since you don't like science all that much.

No I don't trust anything that people tell me and can't explain it in simply enough terms that I can understand it. You are talking about tides which is supposidly caused by gravity. Gravity is the least thing they do understand and everything is questionable concerning it in my opinion. At the very least I'd be willing to listen the the wildest of theories, at least it gets a lazy mind to actually think and determine it's a crazy theory which is better than not thinking and just accepting the status quo without question.


StalingradK
QUOTE
They have sqaundered billions of dollars searching for cures to all kinds of diseases and have found zilch. Then they have found nothing to replace the engine for the poluting car.


What are you talking about? Yeah, we are not finding the miracle cure for AIDs but we are finding all kinds of cure for diseases. Seriously, go to a Medical Science Center and see what they have found. You might be surprised (Good field trip btw original.gif ). And on behalf of the engine, well, there is a gas converter you can build for your car which gets about 200 miles to the gallon. That is not a conspiracy either, the oil company payed off the guy to not patton it, it's in some engineering design building in Michigan? Somewhere around there. And anyways, there are hybrids, electrical, and even vegetable oil cars. So don't tell me we haven't found alternatives. They are just exspensive at the moment.

QUOTE
No I don't trust anything that people tell me and can't explain it in simply enough terms that I can understand it. You are talking about tides which is supposidly caused by gravity. Gravity is the least thing they do understand and everything is questionable concerning it in my opinion. At the very least I'd be willing to listen the the wildest of theories, at least it gets a lazy mind to actually think and determine it's a crazy theory which is better than not thinking and just accepting the status quo without question.


Gravity isn't really that undiscovered... You have just not bothered to read up on it, you turn to these stupid ideas when there is a perfectly logical explanation waiting for you else where. And if you think I don't question what if given to me, you don't know me at all happy.gif . There is a difference between being logical and just being outrageously stupid. Rota, maybe you should not be so prejudice to science and pick up a book. Learn those hard words, find out what they mean so we never have to discuss a Hallow Moon/Planet theory ever again.
FrothyDog
first point: the moon is not "so perfectly spherical" as you say. it is round, yes, but any glance at it will show an abundance of craters and all kinds of wacky fun features.

Topo map and other moon facts

second point: if you want to knock the scientific community, rota, you should not be posting. you should not be using a computer. you should never go to a doctor, or drive a car, or eat anything that you did not forage in the forest. science is not a thing to be shunned, it is the sole reason we can sit here and have this little chat today. and if you think curing the "common cold" is easy, you try developing thousands of vaccines for the thousands of viruses that can cause it. try developing just one vaccine. or design your own engine. probably not too likely that those things are going to happen anytime soon, is it? science is hard, rota. and if you are not going to keep up with it, you have absolutely no right to knock it. especially when you reap its rewards EVERY SINGLE DAY.
Aristocrates
okay, i shouldnt have said 'perfectly sphrical', but comon, compare our moon shape and size with that of others from other planets. I have also read that when one of our satelites that crashed into the moon (the one after the other satelite that zoomed past it in the 60's) the bell "rang out like a bell". I dont beleive that solid objects ring out like a bell would. And the moon has been around for a long time, so long that the rocks and dust onit happen to be about 1-2 billion years older than that of the earth. I also say we shouldnt knock on science and scientists but it seems sometimes that they're are witholding some information. Maybe we should knock on science sometimes because what they're doing is not necessarily to better mankind but to actually make money. If they made or discovered a cure for AIDS, do you think they would just hand it out?
Rota
QUOTE("StalingradK")

What are you talking about? Yeah, we are not finding the miracle cure for AIDs but we are finding all kinds of cure for diseases. Seriously, go to a Medical Science Center and see what they have found. You might be surprised

Name one disease we have cured. The last thing I was aware of was Polio. I might add Polio was cured before there were computers or we even knew what DNA was. The only thing they allow are ways to treat the symtoms but never cure anything. Afterall if you cure anything that would mean you wouldn't have to keep buying their drugs that make them rich as hell. I think there is a damn good case that Aids was a man made desease. I think that's what they do with their knowledge. In fact there are more diseases popping up all the time that come from nowhere. It wasn't like this in the past. Science is either making these diseases or sitting back on their asses making money treating the symptoms.

QUOTE("StalingradK")

And on behalf of the engine, well, there is a gas converter you can build for your car which gets about 200 miles to the gallon. That is not a conspiracy either, the oil company payed off the guy to not patton it, it's in some engineering design building in Michigan?

So you made my point. Science can do things to better society as long as big corporations let them. WoW! those are the people I want to put my faith in. Lap dogs that do what the money people tell them to do even lie to us.

I would also point to the fact that some "guy" invented the gas converter and not our esteemed Science community who get grants all the time from government to find these things but yet most of the big scientific finds are average people screwing around in their basements. So much for the scientists.

QUOTE("Stalingrad")
Gravity isn't really that undiscovered... You have just not bothered to read up on it, you turn to these stupid ideas when there is a perfectly logical explanation waiting for you else where. And if you think I don't question what if given to me, you don't know me at all happy.gif . There is a difference between being logical and just being outrageously stupid. Rota, maybe you should not be so prejudice to science and pick up a book. Learn those hard words, find out what they mean so we never have to discuss a Hallow Moon/Planet theory ever again.

They know gravity exists but that's about it.
Aristocrates
oops, typo in my last response, "...it rang out like a bell..."
Rota
QUOTE

second point: if you want to knock the scientific community, rota, you should not be posting. you should not be using a computer.

Nonsense....my tax money paid for the military to come up with the internet. Then they let the big corporations take over the technology and charge me 30 to 40 dollars a month to use it. Talk about a con job. Computers are enslaving us and right now before they shut the internet down I plan on useing it. I find it funny the government spends so much money on "disinformation agents" to make any alternative explanations to theirs seem ridiculous. What are they afraid of if something out here isn't true?


QUOTE
you should never go to a doctor,

I don't
QUOTE
or drive a car,,

Why not use old early 1900 technolgy? How else could you get around? I'd get shot if I walk through private property. The thing is you just credit scientists with all this stuff when in reality it's average people that really invented the stuff. It wasn't a University that invented the automobile. In fact Universities haven't invented much of anything noteworthy. I want my tax money back that they stole.

QUOTE
or eat anything that you did not forage in the forest.

Yeah now here is a winner for science. They came up with genectically altered seeds that grow crap that animals won't even eat. Monsanto if running around throwing that crap in the air so it will taint everyone's seeds so they can charge money for their patent. They are shutting farms down all over the world for patent violations. People who have never bought seeds in any store are getting their seeds ruined by this poison.

StalingradK
QUOTE
Name one disease we have cured.

You're probably thinking of something you can drink right away and be better again? It doesn't work like that. Unless you get bitten by something poisonous. Then there is Anti-Venom.

QUOTE
So you made my point. Science can do things to better society as long as big corporations let them. WoW! those are the people I want to put my faith in. Lap dogs that do what the money people tell them to do even lie to us.

I would also point to the fact that some "guy" invented the gas converter and not our esteemed Science community who get grants all the time from government to find these things but yet most of the big scientific finds are average people screwing around in their basements. So much for the scientists.


Oh... You mean Government Science Researchers not scientists. For the love of god my Chem teacher is a scientist. Anyways, they do their jobs perfectly. Why are you complaining? If they weren't here we'd still probably have the life expectancy's of 47. You expect too much out of science but yet you do not know alot about it. I propose you do some research before you Criticize a field of work you know pretty much know nothing about happy.gif

QUOTE
They know gravity exists but that's about it.


If that's all we know, then why can we calculate the gravity on other planets, and how heavy everything will be on Earth vs per say... Jupiter?
Rota
QUOTE(StalingradK @ Mar 5 2006, 08:58 PM) [snapback]1091009[/snapback]

You're probably thinking of something you can drink right away and be better again? It doesn't work like that. Unless you get bitten by something poisonous. Then there is Anti-Venom.

Well I'm thinking of a cure that you take like Polio. I think you have made my point that they treat the symtoms and have no interest in the cure. After all there is no money in the the cure but treating the systoms is a gold mine.


QUOTE(StalingradK @ Mar 5 2006, 08:58 PM) [snapback]1091009[/snapback]
Oh... You mean Government Science Researchers not scientists. For the love of god my Chem teacher is a scientist. Anyways, they do their jobs perfectly. Why are you complaining? If they weren't here we'd still probably have the life expectancy's of 47. You expect too much out of science but yet you do not know alot about it. I propose you do some research before you Criticize a field of work you know pretty much know nothing about happy.gif.

I don't think you get where I'm coming from. I'm not saying science can't come up with good things. I'm saying they do from time to time and let the corporations decide what we the common people get our hands on which isn't much. I imagine there are many things that have been invented that the corporations don't want out and the scientists are funded by the corporations so have no say in the matter. They go along to get along and keep the gold flowing.


QUOTE(StalingradK @ Mar 5 2006, 08:58 PM) [snapback]1091009[/snapback]
If that's all we know, then why can we calculate the gravity on other planets, and how heavy everything will be on Earth vs per say... Jupiter?

Yeah sure...we can take their word for it right? Maybe in a few years they'll annouce like they do many things and say they were wrong. That's right they never admit they were wrong they just say they have a new up to date explanation.
StalingradK
QUOTE
Well I'm thinking of a cure that you take like Polio. I think you have made my point that they treat the symtoms and have no interest in the cure. After all there is no money in the the cure but treating the systoms is a gold mine.


Oh LOL, that's what you were getting at. Yeah, they don't "find" the cure only treatments because you make more money that way. Should have said that from the start original.gif

QUOTE
I don't think you get where I'm coming from. I'm not saying science can't come up with good things. I'm saying they do from time to time and let the corporations decide what we the common people get our hands on which isn't much. I imagine there are many things that have been invented that the corporations don't want out and the scientists are funded by the corporations so have no say in the matter. They go along to get along and keep the gold flowing.


To an extent. The first computer was made in like 1944 by the US Government but it took like 50 years for us to get our hands on it. We'll get everything that has been researched, but in time. Let's just hope not 50 years O.O

QUOTE
Yeah sure...we can take their word for it right? Maybe in a few years they'll annouce like they do many things and say they were wrong. That's right they never admit they were wrong they just say they have a new up to date explanation.


You know how we figured our gravity? By pretty much crashing probes into planets and taking measurmants. Gravity is like all pressure related so it's actually pretty easy to measure. We can determine gravity by the mass of a planet or w/e you are trying to measure. You have to read upon it. READ, BOOKs ARE YOUR FRIENDS.
frogfish
.
QUOTE
Well I'm thinking of a cure that you take like Polio. I think you have made my point that they treat the symtoms and have no interest in the cure. After all there is no money in the the cure but treating the systoms is a gold mine.

Anthrax, different strains of the H5N1 virus, the ever-changing flu, Rotavirus, Hepatitis A/B, Smallpox, Lyme Disease, Pertussis...the list goes on and on...Go do your homework Rota

QUOTE
Yeah sure...we can take their word for it right? Maybe in a few years they'll annouce like they do many things and say they were wrong. That's right they never admit they were wrong they just say they have a new up to date explanation.

Gravity is one of the most explained phenomena. Many consants have been PROVEN true. They don't need the dumb criticism of a conspiracist like you.


QUOTE
I'm saying they do from time to time and let the corporations decide what we the common people get our hands on which isn't much.

Hydrogen fuel? Ethanol fuel? Not restricted by Corporations....99% of all new ideas are not withheld...Go check out what some of our great young minds are doing...helping the world more than you ever could.

QUOTE
okay, i shouldnt have said 'perfectly sphrical', but comon, compare our moon shape and size with that of others from other planets. I have also read that when one of our satelites that crashed into the moon (the one after the other satelite that zoomed past it in the 60's) the bell "rang out like a bell".

Titan, Io, Europa, Ganymede, Callisto are all more spehrical than out moon, the only oblong objects are captured asteroidss and Kuiper belt objects. Do you have a link/refernce to this "bell" of yours? Oh, the moon is almost sperical because it was a spinning ball of coalesing magma...gravity rounds it.

As it has been proven by orbiters such as the Lunar Rover orbiter, the depths of the Moon have been probed and proven solid.
Aristocrates
^^^

agreed, there is not much evdidence supporting the hollow moon theory, and I think I've read about the theory here somewhere, I searched on Google "hollow moon" and it gave me a spot in this website...im sure you could also find it on wikipedia
Aristocrates
here
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/articlehollowmoon.shtml
tis very interesting, i got some of the info mixed up but the jist of it is there
Rota
QUOTE(frogfish @ Mar 5 2006, 09:42 PM) [snapback]1091052[/snapback]

.
Anthrax, different strains of the H5N1 virus, the ever-changing flu, Rotavirus, Hepatitis A/B, Smallpox, Lyme Disease, Pertussis...the list goes on and on...Go do your homework Rota

What? You listed a bunch of diseases...so what? I'm not aware of any cures for any of them. If I'm right and there is no cure then what homework do I need to do skippy?


QUOTE(frogfish @ Mar 5 2006, 09:42 PM) [snapback]1091052[/snapback]
Gravity is one of the most explained phenomena. Many consants have been PROVEN true. They don't need the dumb criticism of a conspiracist like you.

O.K. I'll admit gravity keeps you glued to the earth but I see no need for an extensive education to find that out. As far as explaining why gravity exists all I see are theories. the spinning earth. Yeah that could explain it or it might not, who knows, it's not chisiled in granite just yet.

QUOTE(frogfish @ Mar 5 2006, 09:42 PM) [snapback]1091052[/snapback]
Hydrogen fuel? Ethanol fuel? Not restricted by Corporations....99% of all new ideas are not withheld...Go check out what some of our great young minds are doing...helping the world more than you ever could..

Yeah those are great discoveries...too bad they are only different fuels to power the same engine invented in the early 1900's.

StalingradK
Gravity... Let me give you the simplest form. You take a nucleus of an Ion, there should be little protons floating around the nucleus because the nucleus has it's on gravitational pull. This is what keeps the protons from spinning away from the nucleus. Anything with mass has a gravitational pull because it has a charge, and protons and neutrons attract each to each other. If it has a great enough mass, anything smaller will be pulled to it by it's "magnetic" effect.
frogfish
QUOTE
What? You listed a bunch of diseases...so what? I'm not aware of any cures for any of them. If I'm right and there is no cure then what homework do I need to do skippy?

They do have vaccines yes.gif Again, go do your Homework.


QUOTE
Yeah those are great discoveries...too bad they are only different fuels to power the same engine invented in the early 1900's.

Oh, you want engines, eh? Rocket, jet, outboards didn't exist back then.

Rota
QUOTE(StalingradK @ Mar 5 2006, 11:09 PM) [snapback]1091163[/snapback]

If it has a great enough mass, anything smaller will be pulled to it by it's "magnetic" effect.

Magnetic effect? As far as I know a magnet attracts metal to it but not anything else like paper or water. Also you can reverse a magnet and it will actually repell the metal. Gravity pulls on everything not just metal and don't know of anyway to reverse gravity. Isn't that what UFO are supposed to have mastered for space travel Anti Gravity? Like I said I don't think you or anyone else has much of a clue about gravity especially if you still think it's a "magnetic force".
Lu Bu
ok,back to the hollow moon,but the moon go out of orbit if it was hollow?
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