One of buildings at work is loaned out to a local lodge about twice a week. This building is specifically controlled by me so the "leader" is always coming to me to sign out the keys. Myself and a couple of guys I directly work with decided, why not hideout in the mechanical room of this building/auditorium and listen in. We'll I gotta tell ya, that was 2 1/2 hours of my life well wasted that I will never get back. Complete nonsense, nothing even remotely "secret" about it. Talking about volunteering in the community and discussing the people who were interested in joining. It kinda blew my mind because we've walked by this auditorium on several nights when they were in there and they always have guys guarding the doors acting suspicious. Whats the big deal...seems to me more like a wanna-be secret society, did not live up to the hype.


This is my first post, along with secret societies I also have interest in various other "unexplained" phenom which I will get into later...I'm Active Duty Military and have seen/heard alot of unexlainable things over the past 11 years, in various countries around the world. Pleasure to be here.

Some say that the Freemasons are "mostly" what you saw, but there are levels above the level that you and I can join where the "secrets" take place. Many societies like the Knights of Columbus, Council on Foreign relations, etc. allow membership and a front to support their arguments about what they are. However, those that make it into the higher levels claim they are something completely different.

I am interested to hear about the things you have seen and heard over the last 11 years.

Hahaha. That's a funny story. And quite true, I'm sure.

By the way, ordinarily the Tyler (the one who guards the door) does indeed carry a ceremonial sword. He should have jabbed you "cowans" (eavesdroppers) in the ass!

Yes, what you witnessed is why I have to laugh at all these conspiratorial posts here. The average lodge meeting is virtually unrecognizeable from the ordinary business meeting. Mostly these days it's how to pay for the upkeep on the building, this or that parking bill, and how to contribute to the Shriner's Crippled Children's Hospitals, and whatnot. At any rate, what is clear is that the Masons can barely "rule" over their own Depends adult underwear these days, let alone the ebb and flow of world governments!

Some day when I have more patience I'll write a detailed post of when I attended lodge in Freemason's Hall in London.

There are very few Masons these days who understand the esoteric side of Freemasonry ... and that is a shame. I have known a few, and for that I've been fortunate.

---Lifetime AF&AM, among other "secret societies."

Someday you will get higher level than 1 and they will tell you their evil plans.
Besides you will see that when you will start to worship satan in their lodges.

The people in the secret societies like to think they are somthing special. Most are not, but some are probably up to no good. I know whenever I conspired to do a crime, I would do it in secret instead of allowing the world to hear.

If you have nothing to hide why not do things in the light. Because the light they posses is the light of lucifer.

What do the illuminati do Rose? Do you even know?

Even buisness do things in private, that is for the purpose of profiting off of others (consumers) It's called intelectual property, and I deal with it on a daily basis.

Why the secrets, I guess that's a secret. It's a pyramid scam, probably.

The fact is that he dont know a s**t about them, their leadership(and I mean real leaders like Rockefeller family) wont tell the real deal things to their little puppets aka initiates.

Oh brother. I know you were joking but ... I hear that so often that the humor rings hollow. It would be funny if people didn't so tenaciously believe it. People cling so desperately to the notion that Freemasons "worship Satan" that they cannot unclench their fists.

First of all ... I already am the highest degree that exists in Freemasonry. Plus, I already have all the degree rituals of all the appendant bodies of Masonry, such as the Scottish and York Rites. Plus, I have been through the degrees of an "occult" form of Freemasonry. So if there is anyone who would be familiar with the "real" designs of Freemasonry, well, nuff said.

Regarding "satan." I'd like to get past the age of superstitions. Can we have a little reality check for a moment? Reality check no. One: Satan does not exist outside of your own head. The Christian mythology regarding "satan" is but a distorted and garbled version of earlier myths regarding Set or Typhon, the Egyptian "evil" god associated with the constellation of Draco the Dragon. I'm overly ready for the day when society graduates from kindergarten and stops falling back on superstitious fables that were never understood to begin with.

Incidentally, another Freemason who you histrionics fear is Albert Pike. He understood a great deal about how the astral-mythology of the Egyptians formed the basis for Christianity. Maybe that is the subconscious reason why fundamentalists hate him so much ... for they realize that their delusions would be completely exploded if they took the effort to really try to understand what Albert Pike was saying.

Oh well, insert histrionic quote about satanism and the NWO following this post. Idiocy never fails.

Cro maat,
an initiate

Rosencruez,

A whole lot of fancy words surrounding a lot of nothing.

Feel free to continue not answering any of our questions, and saying freemasons are superior, but give no examples.

Basically, the occult says you have to harness your inner power, and you can become god like.

Answer a simple question, what happens when you body dies? Example does consiousness continue after death?

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

when u actually get to know a lot of masons, their no different than anyone else, 99% of what gets posted here about them is completely innacurate, the local lodge round the corner from me is usualy frequentent by pensioners watching the horse racing, and hiding from their wives with a pint of Tartan Special.

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

I wonder if it is truly possible for an American to actually think. To use his mind, and to not actually communicate in something other than a cliche. Based upon the above quote, I don't think so.

What is your evidence for Satan's existence? Have you conjured him lately into your triangle? Have you performed a theurgic or goetic rite to summon him into visible presence?

I don't think so.

Can you cite the latest scientific peer-reviewed journal touting the existence of Satan ... or Jesus for that matter?

I don't think so.

Priests of old depicted "satan" in the old god-forms of Pan --- half-man, half goat. Why? They wanted to discredit the old gods of the Greeks. People are much easier to control if they live in fear of the "devil" and some realm of hellfire.

The funny thing is, you all are so afraid of being controlled and enslaved, when you don't realize that you've been controlled and enslaved all your life to the distortions of an insidious priestcraft. You've never known freedom in all your life, and yet you want to lecture me about the dangers of secret societies controlling the world --- when you have already COMPLETELY SURRENDERED YOUR MIND TO ENSLAVEMENT!

Freedom,
an initiate

It was just a quote bro. Relax. You sound so, well, passionate about disproving everything. Why do you care so much? I am glad that you tell us you have made it to the top of the Masons though, because now you can dispell some of the myths and answer a few outstanding questions.

1. Why the secrecy?
2. What is their history? How and why were they formed?
3. Why did the catholic church ex-communicate anyone who is a mason?
4. Why the pagan type oaths?
Did you reach the temple degrees in the York Rite?

OK for sake of conversation, forgeting about the devil and all that satan stuff, do you believe in moral absolutes, or can crimes be justified. Kind of like Malruhn and his example of killing of a percentage of the human species for the greater good?

and answer my question, what does the occult believe about the afterlife, or is there no afterlife aka life of a spirit/soul/whatever with out the physical body?

And what can you say about occult from of freemasonry?

And, by the way, 1th degree is not the highest degree in freemasonry.

So many questions ... so little time. Lunch is calling me ... and perhaps a cup of coffee.

But, I suppose many of your questions might be answered by spending some time in the Cathedral of the Soul.

Its clear that you lie about truth behind freemasonry, even if you are high ranked member you will never say things like "oh yes we worship satan and we want full control of planet" - you will say good things (just like now) or say nothing at all.

I read thorough some of the stuff, and I do believe and have researched similar info, but why not enlighten humanity? The church is not holding you back, they are already corrupt, and now full of freemasons, so that can't be it.

Maybe we are not worthy?

If that's the case, I can't tell you what I'm planning. Secretly plotting... All I need is one more person, and we can conspire, and if you catch on, I'll call you a conspiracy theorist.

JK

wow, you had time to debunk, but not answer legitimate questions...enjoy your "coffee."

Actually not coffee. It turned out to be green tea.

But then ...

... why should I worry about providing evidence when all of you have already determined that the Freemasons "worship the devil." Why should I present evidence when your brains are completely impervious to input?

Here it goes:

Masonic literature, such as this work of Eliphas Levi and Arthur Edward Waite, often does not contain what Christians would consider a conventional understanding of Lucifer, or the devil. This work declares Lucifer to be God, if we view the statements from the perspective of someone who believes in the Trinity. Levi and Waite have blasphemed the Holy Spirit. The Reverend Dr. Joseph Fort Newton has commended them for it. Notice that they claim also that the devil does not exist. Masonic literature does not embrace a conventional understanding of Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit, or Satan.

We have linked the Grand Lodges of Iowa and Indiana to a book which clearly states that Lucifer is the Holy Spirit.

Notice the path here. It does not involve the "higher degrees" of Freemasonry.

* The path begins with the Grand Lodges, which promote The Builders.

* The Builders points to The Mysteries of Magic, which states that Lucifer is God.


....

Grand Lodges cannot directly tell Freemasons that Lucifer is God without scaring a lot of them off before they are sufficiently ensnared. Grand Lodges obviously want their members to find this material, yet they also want to be able to claim, "We have never taught any such thing." When the documentation is on the table, such denials are seen to be just another Masonic lie.

Masons should ask themselves why they would remain a member of an organization which promotes literature which declares Lucifer to be God?

nice source: the truth http://www.ephesians5-11.org/gllink.htm



Rosencruez you DO know about this and you lied to us about not worshiping Lucifer.
You said you dont worship Devil, but you DID NOT say that you do not worship Lucifer as masons dont belive in devil because they think that Lucifer is the God.
You are sneaky and dont answear to direct questions, but I know the truth and now I am telling it to others.




Alse some interesting facts:
http://www.cuttingedge.org/free13.html (Freemasonry proven to worship Lucifer)

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardt...eemason_sig.htm

Not only that, they are usually taught that they are the highest degree, when usually they are many circles away from the true circle of power and influence.

I don't trust masons to tell the truth, when they swear oaths of allegiance to keep there secrets.

PS all the men in my family with the exception of this current generation have been masons. I'm not proud of it.

I can't even get a straight answer out of my great uncle who's a freemason.

I am sure of that.
Rosencruez may think that he is 33 degree mason, but acctualy he is just a puppet in their system.
WAKE UP!

Oh please. You're killing me.

I suppose you want to call in your cult deprogrammers to instill the love of Jesus in me. Reboot. Hard drive corrupted.

Nothing I can tell you will change your minds (sic) since you all want to believe so badly that Freemasons worship the devil. A lot of people with less patience than myself would have laughed you to scorn a long time ago. You've both gotten off pretty easily by just my saying that you're both being idiots.

The question then becomes, what kind of price does society pay when millions of its citizens become delusional, just like our friends here who think that Freemasons secretly worship the devil? How easy it is to lead them astray ... they are but little children ... so naive ... so ignorant ... such easy prey.

Don't bother me with your Christian superstitions about the Trinity. Why don't you read the Chaldean Oracles and tell me where the idea stems from? How is it that the mutilated shadow of a religion always thinks it's the most fairest one of them all when looking into the mirror?

---an initiate

Satan worshipers, world domination...whatever. What I do know is that Freemasons in the Military tend to get promoted alot faster than those who are not, even STEP promoted. Now I understand that it is the duty of a Mason to "hook a brutha up"...basically I'm thinking of joining for the fringe benefits...

Yeah, you get to rule the world ... and cavort with the harem of the devil's harlots ... all the while listening to the latest Britney Spears album.

As long as I get the hook up, I'll worship a slice of pizza. But seriously, let say I got in and found out they did worship I could pretend for a few years until I meet my own secret goals...(picture doctor evil laughing)

Oh please yourself, you are no threat to me or anyone, unless you truly are evil.

Interacting with you recently I've come to see you are very egotistical, and elitest. This is what Satan represents.

Why don't you enlighten us,

Don't get me wrong, I actually do believe a fraction of what you say, and what I have read that you pointed out. Your just to secretive to be trusted, but I'm still open minded.

Once again you take the time to post and call names but you still refuse to answer any of the questions that have been posed. I asked my questions out of pure curiosity. You call names with an obvious attempt to argue, but when someone asks a qustion you say you won't take the time to answer?!?!?! Your intention lies within your actions and obviously not within your words.

No one can enlighten you. Only you can do that for yourself. It takes effort. No one can hand enlightenment to you as if it were a pack of bubblegum at Wal-Mart.

Sometimes a bit of sarcasm is good ...

Sometimes you need a flyswatter, sometimes a hammer. Sometimes a blow torch, and sometimes a whisper.

At any rate, remember this ...

... the only time in this life when you'll ever hear the complete voice of God in this lifetime is when you Enter the Silence.

---an initiate

And remember this, the jade money eats alone at midnight...

Thanks for nothing.

So what you are saying is you are not going to answer any of the serious questions that were posted?

1) Why the secrecy? It's like a battery. The more it is Hermetically sealed, the less leakages will diminish its power. I'm speaking internally with regard to the psyche.

Another angle is, yes, look at Adolf Hitler. Look what he did with a few occult secrets! Do you really want to put powerful tools in the hands of those who are so vindictive and unprepared? Might as well put a granade in your toddler's hands.

2) That one goes too far back into the mists of history for me to fully explain at the moment. I think there's a crisp meat burrito in my future.

3) Ignorance. Job security issues.

4. They're symbolic. Kind of like pirates talking. In London they don't even use the symbolic penalties anymore.

5). I haven't done the York Rite ... but I am aquainted with their ritual (as I have it in my possession) and I have been exposed to something far more esoteric in other rites.

Were these the questions you've wanted? I sort of forgot about them.

It's Taco Time, boys and girls.
Cheers
A Frater

I appreciate the response.

the secrecy involving freemasonary and the selected lines they use with one another, is not too protect knowledge, any doctrine they study is widely available to the public who are interested.

It is a system used to test ones character, in that they ensure someone can remain quiet without telling another who is not required to know. It shows, trust and loyalty to a character, its basicaly, can you actually keep a secret.

Okaaay, a little reality. What about that murder in one of the Long Island NY Lodges??? Or is that where Cheney got the idea for his "hunting accident"??? Or is it some kind of ritual initiation to a "higher degree"??
Is Cheney a Mason? What are Masons "masters" of??? Initiates????Society??? Do they really control access to the legal professions???Do they conduct vendettas on one member's enemy???? Is it true they are not allowed to use the "N" word???? Is it true one can't be President of the US unless that person is a Mason??? Is "G"reedy "W"armonger Bush a Mason??? Wouldn't that make you all proud???

i wish you would stop posting in colors. you are playing the role of a dark jedi. truth is easily read in black and white. no need for theatrics on such a sensitive topic. it may be an honest mistake(craft of ego), but you are basically flexing your manipulation skills when you do this. you can argue your case against this but 'enlightend(sorryihateusingthisword)' will see past your arguments, even if you cant.

i thought cowan was just an outsider, not specifically an eavesdropper. saw that once online and found it amusing, seeing as how its my last name.

Did I say devil? I said Lucifer and you masons think that Lucifer is NOT a devil so stop pretending.

Many Freemasons would dispute the fact that Freemasonry is Satanic, claiming that Lucifer is not Satan, or the devil. They often point out that the Roman name, Lucifer, appears in the KJV translation of Isaiah 14:12. The original text is Hebrew and does not contain the Roman name, Lucifer. That is true. We have heard this defense from so many Freemasons that it seems obvious that the argument is being taught within the Masonic system, as a defense of Masonic literature which lifts up Lucifer. Some Masons we have debated have considered Lucifer to be one of the "good guys." Obviously, Levi, Waite and Pike thought so. Pike wrote on page 321 of Morals and Dogma that, "Lucifer is the Light Bearer." Freemasonry is said to be a search after light.

Grand Lodges cannot directly tell Freemasons that Lucifer is God without scaring a lot of them off before they are sufficiently ensnared. Grand Lodges obviously want their members to find this material, yet they also want to be able to claim, "We have never taught any such thing." When the documentation is on the table, such denials are seen to be just another Masonic lie.

Masons should ask themselves why they would remain a member of an organization which promotes literature which declares Lucifer to be God?


If you are a real mason you KNOW this. I bet you wont answear this - you again will tell us that you dont belive in devil and we are crazy , but you will not mention you real God Lucifer..

I think the Masons are just people who have a hard time making friends on their own. Just a theory though.

Okay, it's interesting to see the intensity with which you all feel these stereotypes about Freemasonry. The majority of the time what all of you are setting up are strawmen arguments that aren't even about Freemasonry. That is because you simply aren't familiar with who teaches what in the "underground," as it were.

I see one of the most tenaciously held falsehood is that Freemasons somehow worship satan. This to me just shows a lack of critical thinking and that you've all bought into the propaganda issued by the Vatican and the Southern Baptist Convention. Where is the honesty? Where is the real drive to get at the truth? It's like there is no such desire, no real intellectual honesty. The notion, Freemasons worship lucifer, suffices to satisfy your desire for further study. It provides the escape route you so desire for the casual dismissal.

Is Freemasonry evil? Only if you consider George Washington evil. Ben Franklin evil. Thomas Jefferson evil. John Wayne evil. These hard-core devil worshippers. Indeed, Freemasonry is true Americana at its best. See, for example, the George Washington National Masonic Memorial. I suggest you book a trip there to get a sense of the nature of Freemasonry.


Leo Taxil, by the way, later in life admitted that he had made up all his previous lies about Freemasonry. His lies are the sources of many of the bs you folks are putting out there.

Colors? Aw, the world is in colors. Truth can have shades of variation, degree of vibration. So there aren't only lumas in the world, there's chromas too, my friend. Besides, they're kind of cute, these colors, you see.

My above answers, by the way, reflect a more "occult" perspective than what is occurs in Freemasonry. The average Mason will say, WTF, when you start talking about such things.

Cheers,
Rosencruez

And really, as far as worshipping Lucifer, you might as well direct your attacks to the Temple of Set, as they're really the only ones I am aware of who welcome the label of satanism. And even there, they only do so precisely because it is socially isolating and helps their concept of "Isolated Intelligence." When you really understand them, they don't even believe that the "satan" or the "devil" of Christian mythology exists, as they're more intent on communing with the Egyptian god Set.

Many people still do not understand the importance of studying this subject to its logical conclusion. Their spiritual freedom is at stake. Remember two things about Masonry: 1) Superior Masons deliberately lie to their fellow Masons, as those Masons "deserve to be mislead;" 2) Explanations given to 95% of all Masons are wrong. This quote from Masonic author, Carl Claudy sums it all up: "Cut through the outer shell and find a meaning; cut through that meaning and find another; under it, if you dig deep enough, you may find a third, a fourth -- who shall say how many teachings?" Many who are in Masonry are not aware that they are lied to. Finally, remember Albert Pike's bold assertion in Morals & Dogma, that "Masonry is identical to the ancient Mysteries," which means that all their teachings in all their books are precisely the same as the Ancient, Pagan, Satanic Mysteries. [p. 624, teachings of the 28th Degree]

Maybe if cassual masons dont worship Lucifer then their leaders do. And you Rosencruez are one of these ~95% who dont know thr truth about mason leadership.

And, by the way, why masons use occultic symbols?


http://www.global-conspiracies.com/worship.htm

Sanjuro, that last link (global-conspiracies) is nothing short of a HUGE joke! The one that makes me giggle the most is their interpretation of who/what Tubal Cain is/was. The tangent that they take off on is just hilarious!! To explain who TC was, the speaker used an analogy - and the site rips apart the analogy as if it were factual and used as a misdirection!

In nearly a decade of being a Freemason, the only "secret" stuff I have witnessed or heard about was during ritual work (hand-shakes and passwords), and some private medical info on one member that I accidently overheard. The vast majority of the meetings I have attended have been exactly as the OP described... boring as hell.

Scooby, please, I have told you this before, but I do NOT espouse "culling" part of the human population. When I spoke about the stuff you keep bringing up, I was showing how an expanded world-view can lead a person to view things differently. Perhaps I should have used the following:
If you are a ditch-digger, your world revolves around your shovel. You get promoted and now your world revolves around the workers and their shovels. Another promotion and now you worry about vehicles as well. Eventually, your concerns are about money. If money dictates that instead of shovels, that the workers use spoons instead, then you throw out the shovels, as at this level, there are no longer "people", you have "resources" and "commodities". Is that better?

Sanjuro, your insistance on pushing the supposed "fact" that Freemasons "worship Lucifer" is not only tiresome, it is off base. I offer the following: Satan has been called the "Lord of the Air". You seem to want to continue being surrounded by air - therefore you support, promote and defend Satan. It is the same misapplied argument.

The vast number of quotes that are pulled from Morals and Dogma and other works and thrown in the faces of Freemasons as "proof" that we are "Satanic" are laughable. In context, and with the ENTIRE PASSAGE involved, the passages make quite good sense and you can see the error in what you try to prove. What those that use these misattributed and out-of-contextual quotes is akin to saying that the Holy Bible discusses the Serpent, and has the line, "Hallowed be Thy Name", therefore the Bible is promoting the worship of Satan.

Keep trying.

Lucifer is the planet Venus btw. Their worshiping the lunar orbits of planets. Its geomatry on a plane people pay not a wit of attention too.

Yes, you folks should listen to Mulruhn, because he knows what Freemasonry is about ... as do millions of others. What I speak about is really derived from other sources ... but is relevant to Freemasonry. The average Mason, bless his heart, probably wouldn't know that the Illuminati functions as the higher degrees of the Rosicrucian Order. No big deal, really. They are different organizations with separate lineages. Of course, some people through the centuries have had dual memberships ... but oh well. Some obviously are dying to make a grand conspiracy out of all this ... others simply have direct experience in such matters and see these threads for the lunacy they are.

Your derision of Masonry as being synonymous with the ancient mysteries does not hold water. Why? Because Christianity is synonymous with the ancient mysteries! So few even amongst Freemasons understand this! Were you really familiar with the ancient mystery teachings you would recognize that all the major teachings of early Christianity came directly from the Orphic mysteries, the Eleusinian mysteries, the Hermetic mysteries, the Cabiric mysteries, the Mithraic myteries. That is a fact that most here are unwilling to research to its fullest. But it is true none-the-less. People like Pike had a thorough understanding of such things ... in a way that many here never will, unfortunately.

Cro maat,
A Frater

Albert Pike?

http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike.htm

Sanjuro,

You have lost touch with reality. Nothing I say will change your mind.

I've read Albert Pike and as a Rosicrucian and a Freemason I know where he's coming from. Nuff said. Clearly you don't have a clue nor will ever make the effort to get one.
Incidentally, very few Masons read Albert Pike these days, sadly, and even fewer of those who read Pike even come close to understanding him. Fewer still are those capable of thinking like Pike. That probably is a good reason why Masonry (and our democracy) is in its current state of enfeeblement.

Cro maat,
A frater

Okey, say whatever you want, but I will find the truth, for a start I will start a research about masons in my country, I may even join them to expose the truth from inside.

tell me what the Vaticans links are with this "illuminati" then.

That assumes that such a link exists.