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Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality vs Skepticism
darkmoonlady
I would really like a comprehensive list of the changes/or edits done to the bible throughout history. Does anyone know of a good website, or could possibly list any they know of, including "councils of nicea", translation issues etc? I am really curious about them and why they occured and when. Any help would be greatly appreciated. (oh yeah I googled and could not find a good listing)
Something Like Laughter
in the NT there are thousands of text variants, most unintentional products of the process of copying by hand such as leaving out words or phrases, mixing up the order of passages or any other typographical errors people still make today. some were intentional, fixing bad spelling and grammar and yes a few changes affecting doctrine. there are less than 20 variants in the NT that make any significant difference that text critics are unsure of the proper readings, none of those affect any doctrine. if you want a list, go to www.biblegateway.com, pick a starting point, and start writing down the footnotes.
the council of nicea didnt have anything to do with the biblical text. http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html is a very good resource. it makes availiable just about every scrap of ancient writing on the council and is dedicated to rebuking various myths about the council.
if you want more information about text variants, Bruce Metzger and Kurt and Barbara Aland are a few of the leading scholars in the field and have books dedicated to the subject.
Universal Absurdity
Well, i did a little searching on the subject. I found this http://www.bibleufo.com/anomlostbooks1.htm If it helps, it helps.
Bella-Angelique
Source of C&P Wheaton College
IV. LEADERSHIP OF THE CHURCH OF JERUSALEM AFTER AD 70

Virtually all information about the leadership of the post-AD 70 Jewish Church comes from Eusebius and Hegesippus. Both are late and may read back into the record more of an episcopal form of leadership and succession than was actually present in the first century. [45] Nevertheless, titles and rank aside, they probably provide reliable information about people and events.

James, of course, is recognized as the leader after the apostles withdrew from the City and he (not Peter) is placed first in the apostolic succession. [46]

The death of James the Just left the Church of Jerusalem without a strong leader. There ia no evidence that anyone of significant stature was able to gather the reins of leadership between James' death and the reorganization of the Church after A.D. 70. A persecution of the Church by Jewish leaders [47] and the political turmoil in Jerusalem in the mid-60's probably prevented the immediate election of a successor. Furthermore, if the Christians were beginning to leave the city about this time, the situation in which the Church was dismantling herself was hardly one in which a new leader could establish himself.

When, after the Jerusalem catastrophe, efforts were made to re-establish some form of organization for the remnant of Jerusalem Christians. There was controversy about not only who should lead but also the basis on which the selection should be made.

Symeon (also called Simon and Simeon) "the brother [or cousin of the Lord" and or "the son of Cleopas was appointed "bishop." [48] However, this selection was contested by Thebouthis who appears to have been a viable candidate. Apparently, there being no other grounds for choosing between the two, Symeon was selected, "because he was another cousin of the Lord." [49]

From these accounts several points emerge. (1) Hegesippus thought that in the last quarter of the first century "those who were, humanly speaking of the family of the Lord" (Despoayni = desposunoi, as Julius Africanus calls them [50] ) together with the Apostles and disciples formed an authoritative counsel within the Church. [51] (2) Nevertheless, it is conceivable that any of the Apostles, disciples, or despoayni were eligible for election to the first office in the Jerusalem-Palestinian Church. (3) The basis of selection to head the Church seems to have been who "was worthy" (EH 4:22). In EH 3:11 Symeon's relation to the Lord is mentioned only incidentally. However, in EH 4:22 Hegesippus seems to say that Symeon's relation to the Lord was the determining factor of his selection over another, seemingly equally acceptable candidate. Hegesippus-Eusebius (EH 3:32, 3 ff.) also indicate that Symeon lost his life (ca. 106/7) in a persecution under Trajan (begun by Vespasian [EH 3:12] and Domitian [EH 3:19 f.; 32]) which was aimed at liquidating all of the Davidic line (including the relatives of Jesus).

Adolf Harnack and others have contended that the Jerusalem Church was governed by hereditary leaders, by a Christian Caliphate similar to that which later developed in Islam. [52] However, if the evidence found in Eusebius can be taken seriously, this does not appear to have been the case. The principle of hereditary succession was not established before Symeon was chosen, otherwise Thebouthis could not even have hoped to obtain the office. Even if it was formally enunciated at the time of Symeon's election it died with him.

As a member of the family of Jesus Symeon was of the royal Davidic line. Eusebius assumes that since his mother, "the wife of Clopas," was a follower of Jesus and Symeon himself lived to a great age, it can be assumed that he was an "eyewitnesses and actual hearers of the Lord" (EH 3:32). Otherwise very little is known about the character of Symeon himself and of his tenure as head of the Jerusalem Church. It must have been a time of great suffering and disillusionment throughout Palestine as a whole and of persecution for Christians (cf. Eusebius, EH 3:20, 5). To these problems were added the internal disorders caused by the advent of heresy into the Church. The fact that Thebouthis, who had been considered for the bishopric, seems to have been identified with this corrupting influence (EH 4:22), suggested that the Church was severely plagued by strife and dissension.

Symeon is said to have met his death as a result of being accused by some of the "heretics" as being of Davidic descent and a Christian. Hegesippus-Eusebius (EH 3:32, 3 ff.) also indicate that Symeon, in a persecution under Trajan (ca. 106/7), [53] although he was a hundred and twenty years old, endured torture for many days and finally was crucified [54] .

Symeon was succeeded by "a certain Jew named Justus" who does not appear to have been a member of the Desposyni. [55] The phrase applied to Justus, "one of many thousands of the circumcision who by that time had believed on Christ," is reminiscent of the language of Acts 21:20. It probably indicates the continued presence in the Jewish Church of those Jewish Christians who desired to remain close to Jewish customs.


The Roman house of Justus can be traced in moving to Wales in what is now Great Britain.
Google the Roman name Justus and Wales.

I hope this helps you for the early part.
ADHD Inattentive
Well, I recall yelekiah mentioning something about "Reincarnation" and "The book of Enoch" being taken out of the bible. Lilith was also taken out the King James Version of the bible (among others) in comparison to the original Hebrew texts.

~ADHD~
Yelekiah
Orthodox Judaism I believe supports it. Emperor Justinian declared reincarnation "anathema" in the sixth century I believe. And there is evidence that Theodora had an affect on this.
Irish
user posted image
GIDEON MAGE
Source:

http://p069.ezboard.com/fmessiahtruthfrm1....icID=1968.topic
QUOTE
Let's just compare the two biggies (early versions of the n.t.): Vaticainus and Sinaticus:

Sinaticus omits the following verses (which are in Vaticanus):

Matthew 24:35 - "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away";
Luke 10:32;
Luke17:35;
John 9:38;
John 16:15;
John 21:25; and
I Corinthians 13:2.

Next note that Vaticanus leaves out the following verses while Sinaiticus keeps them:

Matthew 12:47.

Luke 23:17 -

BTW. this verse is left out in B and the NASB, NIV but it is in Sinaiticus and the Majority of all Greek texts


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"For of necessity he must release on onto them at the feast."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Again B omits Luke 23:34


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Then said Jsus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


while it is retained in Sinaiticus and this time kept in the NASB, NIV. Go figure.

In the gospels alone, both Vaticainus and Sinaticus leave out the following verses.

Matthew 17:21,
Matthew 18:11,
Matthew 23:17;
Mark 7:16,
Mark 9:44,
Mark 46,
Mark 11:26,
Mark 15:28;
Luke 9:55-56,
Luke 17:36,
Luke23:17, and
John 5:4.

The NASB of 1972 omitted these verses, but in 1977 put them back [in brackets]. The NIV continues to omit these verses entirely.

Just to help you out a little bit, here is a list of scriptures in the NT that do not appear in the oldest COMPLETE manuscripts:

Matt. 5:23 without a cause
Matt. 6:13 For thine is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Matt. 6:25 or what ye shall drink*
Matt. 16:2 When it is evening, ye say, it will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
Matt. 16:3 This entire verse
Matt. 17:21 and fasting
Matt. 18:12 into the mountains
Matt. 2O:7 and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive
Matt. 22:13 and take him away
Matt. 23:35 son of Barachias*
Matt. 24:10 and shall hate one another*
Matt. 24:31 sound of a*
Matt. 24:41 women shall be
Matt. 25:6 cometh
Matt. 27:52 and the graves were opened*
Matt. 27: 53 and went*
Matt. 28:19 therefore
Mark 4:37 so that it was now full*
Mark 6:51 beyond measure and wondered
Mark 7:8 For as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things as ye do
Mark 7:14 unto me every one of you
Mark 9:24 with tears
Mark 9:29 and fasting
Mark 9:44 This entire verse
Mark 9:45 into the fire that shall never be quenched
Mark 9:46 This entire verse
Mark 9:47 fire
Mark 9:49 and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt
Mark 10:24 for them that trust in riches
Mark 10:30 houses and brethren and sisters and mothers and children and lands with persecutions*
Mark 14:30 twice*
Mark 14:68 and the @#%$ crew
Mark 14:72 the second time*
twice*
Mark 16:9-20 All these verses
Luke 2: 40 in spirit
Luke 8:45 and sayest thou, Who touched me?
Luke 16:16 and every man presseth into it
Luke 17:12 which stood afar off*
Luke17:35 women
Luke 18:11 with himself*
Luke 22:43 This entire verse
Luke 22:44 This entire verse
Luke 22:68 me, nor let me go
Luke 23:5 teaching*
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father forgive them; for they know not what they do
Luke 24:42 and of an honeycomb
John 1:25 asked him, and*
John 3:13 which is in heaven
John 4:9 for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans
John 5:3 waiting for the moving of the water
John 5:4 This entire verse
John 5:25 and now is*
John 8:1-11 all these verses
John 8:59 going through the midst of them and so passed by
John 16:16 because I go to the Father
John 19:23 and also his coat*
John 21:25 This entire verse
Acts 6:3 Holy Ghost and (should read "spirit of")
Acts 6:8 faith (should read "grace")
Acts 8:37 This entire verse
Acts 9:31 churches (should read "church")
were (should read "was")
Acts 15:32 and confirmed them*
Acts 18:5 pressed in the spirit (should read "earnestly occupied with the Word")
Acts 18:21 I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but
Rom. 3:22 and upon all
Rom. 6:12 it in
Rom. 7:6 that being dead (should read "being dead to that")
Rom. 8:26 for us
Rom. 11:6 But if it be of works, then it is no more grace; otherwise work is no more work
Rom. 14:6 and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it
1 Cor. 2:1 testimony (should read "mystery")
1 Cor. 6:20 and in your spirit, which are God's
1 Cor. 7:5 fasting and
1 Cor. 10:28 for the earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof
1 Cor. 15:24 cometh
2 Cor. 4:14 by (should read "with")
Gal. 3:1 that ye should not obey the truth
Gal. 3:17 in Christ
Gal. 5:19 adultery
Gal. 5:21 murders
Eph. 5:9 Spirit (should read "light")
Eph. 5:30 of his flesh, and of his bones
2 Thess. 2:9 Even him
1 Tim. 3:16 God (should read "who")*
1 Tim. 4:12 in spirit*
1 Tim. 6:5 from such withdraw thyself*
2 Tim. 3:3 without natural affection*
Heb. 12:18 mount that might be touched and that burned with fire (should read "fire that might be touched and burned")*
Heb. 12:20 or thrust through with a dart*
James 5:16 Confess your faults (should read "Therefore confess your sins")*
1 Pet. 2:5 spiritual (before the word "sacrifices")
1 Pet. 3:8 courteous (should read "humble")
2 Pet. 1:1 God and our (should read "our Lord and")*
1 John 3:16 of God
1 John 5:7 in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one
1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth
1 John 5:13 and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God
Rev. 1:17 unto me, Fear not*
Rev. 2:22 their (should read "her")*
Rev. 5:3 neither under the earth*
Rev. 5:9 us (omitted by the Alexandrian Ms., one of the three oldest Mss. known)
Rev. 5:10 us (should read "them")
we (should read "they")
Rev. 5:13 and under the earth*
Rev. 6:2 to conquer (should read "he conquered")*
Rev. 9:4 neither any green thing*
Rev. 9:13 the four horns of*
Rev. 10:6 and the sea, and the things which are therein*
Rev. 11:17 and art to come*
Rev. 12:12 inhabiters of* of (before the words "the sea")
Rev. 14:5 before the throne of God*
Rev. 14:12 here are they*
Rev. 16:5 and shalt be (should read "the holy")*
Rev. 16:7 another out of*
Rev. 16:11 and their sores*
of their deeds*
Rev. 16:17 from the throne*
Rev. 18:22 of whatsoever craft he be*
and the stone of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee*
Rev. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished*
Rev. 21:24 of them which are saved*
and honor*
Rev. 21:26 and honor*
Rev. 22:3 more*

The ones marked with an asterisk (*) do not appear in the Codex Sinaiticus. The ones without (*) do not appear, as they are written in contempory xian Bibles, in either the Codex Sinaiticus, or the Codex Vaticanus. These are the two oldest complete, or nearly complete Greek Manuscripts of the GNT. Granted there are portions of the C.V. that are missing.


Food for thought, eh?
Paranoid Android
Sorry, a quick cameo blush.gif

What Gideon fails to mention is that most translations of the Bible are footnoted, saying exactly what he posted above. There's no big conspiracy going on to hide the various Bible verses, according to agendas, as is implied in his post (though he is quoting someone else, so it's not really his fault). That information is not hidden away in some unreachable, unapproachable dungeon! Rather it is available freely within the pages of the Book itself, without difficulty.

Back to my studies now grin2.gif

Regards, PA
GIDEON MAGE
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Mar 3 2006, 07:16 AM) [snapback]1088269[/snapback]

Sorry, a quick cameo blush.gif

What Gideon fails to mention is that most translations of the Bible are footnoted, saying exactly what he posted above. There's no big conspiracy going on to hide the various Bible verses, according to agendas, as is implied in his post (though he is quoting someone else, so it's not really his fault). That information is not hidden away in some unreachable, unapproachable dungeon! Rather it is available freely within the pages of the Book itself, without difficulty.

Back to my studies now grin2.gif

Regards, PA

I was responding to the original question with selections I found. Nothing was implied. Why are you so defensive? Didn't you read the question? There have been a lot of add-ons and deletions; glad you agree.
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Mar 3 2006, 12:16 PM) [snapback]1088269[/snapback]

Sorry, a quick cameo blush.gif

What Gideon fails to mention is that most translations of the Bible are footnoted, saying exactly what he posted above. There's no big conspiracy going on to hide the various Bible verses, according to agendas, as is implied in his post (though he is quoting someone else, so it's not really his fault). That information is not hidden away in some unreachable, unapproachable dungeon! Rather it is available freely within the pages of the Book itself, without difficulty.

Back to my studies now grin2.gif

Regards, PA

Cameo my foot PA LOL you can't stay away w00t.gif
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