The following is an excerpt from: The New Revelations a Conversation with God book


Not only do your biggest, most powerful organized religions teach you that you are separate from each other, they also teach you that you are not worthy of God. They teach you that you are shameful, guilty creatures; that were born in sin and do not deserve to be the dust under God’s feet. They rob you of your self-esteem.

They teach you not to be too proud of yourself and of your talents and accomplishments. The glory of you is not to be contemplated or announced, but only your sinful nature. You are not to go to God smiling with wonderment at your own magnificence, but begging for mercy for your own transgressions.

Yet people who are robbed of self-esteem rob others of theirs. People who do not love themselves cannot love others. People who see themselves as unworthy see others as unworthy.

The core message of most organized religions is not joy, innocence, and self-celebration, but fear, guilt and self-denial.

Good post Venom; I'd just like to clarify a point. I myself suffer from very low self esteem amongst other problems, but I don't see others as also being unworthy. In fact I tend to automatically assume everyone I meet is more worthy than myself.

Good topic venom,
A lot of the religious fall into this catagory. Although some of the new religions have pulled away from this hurtful self doubting dogma. There are actually a few now that preach selflove and selfrespect but unfortunately there are far to many that live by the old rules.
Fear of a higher power was a useful tool to use on people that are gullible and have low self esteem. On the other hand some have used this to their advantage by raiding the henhouse while the sheep were in church with their heads bowed. Big business and traveling minstrals er I mean ministers have gone under the radar and taken advantage of the poor and defenseless.

People that act that way- do so at their own peril. The religious can look down on themselves and be shameful- even though i have my religion and faith i do not see myself as a nobody- im proud of who i am and my accomplishments- the notion that the religious have no self esteem is an extreme exaggeration. I personally believe its better for a person to be humble than a show off- go take a look at the world...who's a greater influence to you? Mother Theresa or Paris Hilton? Thank You.

I actually feel sorry for the religious that actually DO act that way and are so scared of God and hate themselves and feel worthless- but i wont buy into that and any smart person shouldnt yet as i mentioned its a very overexaggerated belief that the religious feel "worthless".

What do you mean by separated from each other? Abrahamic religions (and I think Buddhism and Hiduism too) sure tell us that me and you don't share the same soul as some new-age religions believe but besides that, WTF do you mean?



Hum? What the hell?! The whole purpose of the Abrahamic religions is to be worthy of the divine. If we were all worthy of God since the begining then we could stay all day sitting on the couch, watching TV while devouring some crisps.



If I kill someone I should be ashamed and feel guilty, shouldn't I? I don't understand what do you meant with that.



Wrong again. And no I was never robbed my self-esteem, for some believing provides self-esteem not the opposite.



Yes, christianism tells us that, and so does confucionism and almost all non-hedonist ethic philophies and even some hedonists. It's called arrogance.



Yes of course they tell us tobe aware of our sins and correct them, but they don't say we are only made of sins, and almost no christians are self-hurting fanatics like you see in the movies.



No God won't like you if you go to him acting like a music star.



Well, you can beg for mercy but don't admire yourself if he tells you to get a life, I have never been taught to stay all day in front of the altar praying for mercy, I was taught to get out there and fight.



All those three sentences are stupid cliches. Usually it is exactly the opposite. People who have high self-esteem (aka arrogant people) rob others self-esteem (practical example: school bulliers), people who have no love for themselves are usually those more likely to do sacrifices for love and people who see themselves DO see others as unworthy of something they try to obtain in they are unworthy of it but usually also see others as worthier (as in 'more valuable') than them.



No it is not self-celebration, we are not greeks. But it also isn't fear nor self denial (you should feel guilty if you are guilty, nothing more), and I should know those things, I'm inside, you're not.

Yeah i love how many jump on the "this is a good topic" bandwagon when it indeed is not. Its one of the biggest cliche's and profiling of religion i've ever heard...They make us sound like no brainer, depressing losers with no hopes or goals wow....thats sooo true...

The author is running off his own very wrong assumptions Venom.
If anything Roddenberry's Borg is a closer comparison to Buddhism and Christianity than this is you want to go for something derogatory. They both talk about everyone is one part of a whole body.

(by the way, resistance really is futile, heh)

If you can make a good omlette and whistle the tune to the Andy Griffith show, then you are worthy.

Ramster.....is there ANYWHERE in the Christian Bible that speaks about a "good self image" or a "good self worth" in a good way?

scholarly journal C&P


Self-Esteem, Narcissism, and Aggression: Does Violence Result From Low Self-Esteem or From Threatened Egotism?

Authors: Roy F. Baumeister1; Brad J. Bushman2; W. Keith Campbell1

Source: Current Directions in Psychological Science, Volume 9, Number 1, February 2000, pp. 26-29(4)

Publisher:Blackwell Publishing


Abstract:
A traditional view holds that low self-esteem causes aggression, but recent work has not confirmed this. Although aggressive people typically have high self-esteem, there are also many nonaggressive people with high self-esteem, and so newer constructs such as narcissism and unstable self-esteem are most effective at predicting aggression. The link between self-regard and aggression is best captured by the theory of threatened egotism, which depicts aggression as a means of defending a highly favorable view of self against someone who seeks to undermine or discredit that view.

Keywords: aggression; violence; self-esteem; narcissism

Document Type: Research article

DOI: 10.1111/1467-8721.00053

Affiliations: 1: Department of Psychology, Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, 2: Department of Psychology, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa


True low self esteem is caused by parents - not culture C&P

November 2001 - Ref N71
The costs and causes of low self-esteem

There is a widespread view that low self-esteem is a risk factor for a broad range of psychological and behavioural problems. However, neither public discussion nor decisions to invest in prevention and treatment have been strongly informed or guided by hard evidence, either about the effects or the causes of low self-esteem. This review of the available research evidence, by Nicholas Emler (London School of Economics) aimed to fill this gap. The review found that:

* There is not perfect agreement among researchers about the nature of self-esteem. The most significant division is between the view that self-esteem is a generalised feeling about the self, and the view that it is the sum of a set of judgements about one's value, worthiness, and competence in various domains.See a list of related documents...
* Despite imperfect agreement about its nature, levels of self-esteem can be reliably and easily measured.See a list of related documents...
* The design of much, perhaps most, published research means it cannot show whether self-esteem has a causal influence on behaviour patterns. The most informative evidence comes from longitudinal studies, following the same individuals over time. This shows that:

- relatively low self-esteem is not a risk factor for delinquency, violence towards others (including child and partner abuse), drug use, alcohol abuse, educational under-attainment or racism;
- relatively low self-esteem is a risk factor for suicide, suicide attempts and depression, for teenage pregnancy, and for victimisation by others. In each case, however, this risk factor is one of several and probably interacts with others;
- there are indications that childhood self-esteem is associated with adolescent eating disorders and with economic outcomes - earnings, continuity of employment - in early adulthood, but the causal mechanisms involved remain unclear.
See a list of related documents...
* Low self-esteem in an absolute sense is rare. Most of the comparative research contrasts the consequences of very high self esteem with more moderate levels.See a list of related documents...
* The strongest influences upon self-esteem are the individual's parents. Parenting style, physical and particularly sexual abuse play a significant role, as do genetic factors.See a list of related documents...
* Planned interventions can raise self-esteem but knowledge of why particular interventions work, or whether their effects are more than short term, is very limited.See a list of related documents...

Background
In recent times low self-esteem has been one of the most popular and frequently invoked psychological explanations for behavioural and social problems. Taking their cue from social commentators and media opinion leaders, people have been willing to accept that a limited sense of self-worth lies behind just about every social and personal ill from drug abuse and delinquency to poverty and business failures. The result has been a huge market for self-help manuals and educational programmes.

The emerging climate has also had its effect on public policy. For example, the converging notions that high self-esteem is both an asset to society and an individual right has had distinct effects in education. Observers have noted a growing disinclination among teachers to criticise or to set high performance standards, through fear that more objective feedback will damage the self-esteem of pupils. At the same time, there has been pressure on educational authorities to bring in programmes of personal development specifically aimed at enhancing and strengthening self-esteem. In the US, the state of California has invested significant public funds in projects to raise the self-esteem of its citizens.

However, despite an extensive body of research which can inform policy and practice, such initiatives - and the public perceptions that lie behind them - have not been securely rooted in evidence. The aim of this study was therefore to determine what is known from research about three key questions:

* what are the consequences of low self-esteem?
* what factors and conditions determine a person's level of self-esteem?
* can self-esteem be raised through planned interventions?

Scientific study of self-esteem
As with many psychological phenomena, scientific progress in understanding self-esteem has two key requirements. The first is clarity of definition: what is self-esteem? The second is the availability of procedures to measure self-esteem. There is also, of course, a mutual dependence between these two requirements.

There is not perfect unanimity within the scientific community as to exactly what self-esteem is, but the major options currently boil down to two. Either self-esteem is primarily an emotional response: it is a generalised feeling about the self that is more or less positive. Or self-esteem is primarily the cumulative result of a set of judgements. These are judgements about one's adequacy across a range of dimensions - intellectual competence, social skills, appearance, physical co-ordination, and so on. According to the first view these judgements are substantially shaped - indeed biased - by the generalised feeling people have towards themselves. According to the second, the generalised feeling is the net result or effect of these more specific judgements.

These alternatives have practical consequences for how self-esteem is measured and there are well-established and widely used procedures based on each of them. There are, moreover, advantages to each kind of procedure. However, the simpler procedures derived from the more emotion-based definition have generally proved more useful and more informative.

The consequences of differing levels of self-esteem
A difficulty in deciding whether low self-esteem does in reality have consequences for behaviour is not the absence of evidence but its highly variable quality. The most informative research is longitudinal. It follows the same individuals over time, preferably a period of several years, and in such a way as to detect changes in both self-esteem and the behaviour of interest over that period. It should also control for the effects of other factors; most problem behaviours have multiple causes and multiple risk factors. This review gave most weight to research that meets these requirements.

The review focused upon the following outcomes: crime and delinquency (including violent crime), racial prejudice, abuse of illegal drugs, illegal (under-age) tobacco use, alcohol abuse, risky sexual behaviour and teenage pregnancy, child maltreatment, educational underachievement, economic circumstances, eating disorders, suicide and suicide attempts.

It is more difficult to prove, unequivocally, the absence than the presence of a link. Nonetheless, in several cases the evidence was about as clear as it could be in ruling out a causal influence of low self-esteem. These cases are crime/delinquency (including violent crime), racial prejudice, teenage smoking, and child maltreatment. What make some of these cases particularly clear is that high, not low self-esteem, is the more plausible risk factor.

A second category covers cases in which the influence of low self-esteem is not proven (these may merit further attention) or very slight. These include educational under-achievement, alcohol abuse and drug abuse.

One commonly voiced assumption is that low self-esteem increases the risk of behaviour damaging to health among young people - notably drug and alcohol abuse and smoking - because it increases vulnerability to negative peer group pressure. In fact, very low self-esteem if anything reduces sensitivity to conformity pressures. It also appears that engaging in physically risky pursuits, such as driving too fast or under the influence of alcohol is associated with high, not low self-esteem.

Finally, with respect to four cases, low self-esteem does appear to be a risk factor: teenage pregnancy, eating disorders, suicide attempts and suicidal thoughts, and (for males only) lower earnings and more extended periods of unemployment in early adulthood.

In each case, however, it is unclear precisely why low self-esteem increases the risk. Moreover, the increased risk is typically small and low self-esteem is only one of a number of risk factors. Nonetheless, these are the strongest cases for further inquiry.

Causes
A few factors - ethnicity or race, social background and gender - could not possibly be consequences of low self-esteem - but are they among its causes?

Belonging to a minority ethnic community, particularly one that has experienced a history of persecution and discrimination by the majority population, would seem to pose a threat to any individual's sense of their own worth. If anything, however, quite the contrary is the case. Notably, black Americans enjoy higher self-esteem than their white counterparts.

It is just possible that black Americans are a special case but research points to the same conclusion about all manner of stigmatised groups: being an object of prejudice does not damage self-esteem.

Social class position in adulthood is modestly related to self-esteem, but adolescent and childhood levels of self-esteem are unrelated to the socio-economic status of parents. There is indication, however, of some 'hidden injuries', albeit minor, of social class including father's level of education and whether the father is unemployed.

Gender is also only very modestly related to self-esteem. Females on average have slightly lower self-esteem than males, the gap being widest in the late teens. The many explanations that have been advanced for females' lower self-esteem therefore seem to over-explain the difference.

Among factors that appear to have a clearer effect on self-esteem are successes and failures. Most attention has been given to the effect of academic achievement. The effect is undeniable but it is not large. The same goes for successes and failures of other kinds - in finding work or holding on to employment, for example, and for such public attacks on a person's worth as being diagnosed an alcoholic, referred to a drug abuse rehabilitation programme or convicted of child abuse.

Much attention has been given to the impact of appearance upon self-esteem and strong claims have been made about its effects among adolescents. The evidence, however, does not unequivocally support these claims. It does show clearly that self-esteem is related to beliefs about appearance. It does not rule out the plausible conclusion that these beliefs are themselves substantially determined by self-esteem.

As to what are the most important influences on self-esteem, the simple answer is: parents. Part of this influence is attributable to parenting style. The key qualities contributing to positive self-esteem appear to be approval and acceptance. Among the most damaging things parents can do is to abuse their children, physically or sexually. Family conflict and breakdown are likewise sources of damage.

Biological parents also exercise a genetic influence; a part of the difference between the self-esteem of one individual and the next is inherited. This source of influence is significant and substantial - it is the single most important source of variations in self-esteem so far identified. But it still leaves most of the differences between people to be produced by events after they are born.

Finally, close and loving relationships with others later in life do contribute positively to self-esteem. But the likelihood of forming and sustaining successful relationships of these kinds is itself higher when self-esteem is higher in the first place.

.."Because the Sovereign Lord Helps Me, I will not be disgraced. Therefor i have set my face like flint and i know i will not be put to shame..."

Isaiah 50:7

.."Act with courage and may the lord be with those who do well..."

2 Chronicles 19:11

.."March on my soul...Be strong!!.."

Judges 5:21

.."For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and self discipline..."

2 Timothy 1:7

..“Let us run with endurance the race that is set before us..."

(Hebrews 12:1)

“Work hard and become a leader; be lazy and never succeed.

(Proverbs 12:24)”

Someone doesnt know their Bible.

Ramito, I find it interesting that you only use two quotes from the n.t. Freudian slip?

Bella what does economics have to do with the study of low self esteem? Other than the fact that most poor people are quite into their faith. As well as the California study which from what I know has a large hispanic population, again very religious (catholic). This all comes right back to the bible and it's teachings. I didn't need a 1000 word essay to figure that one out.

Obviously the opposite is true.
Egomanicle, selfcentered, selfworshipping parents cause low selfesteem, not any religion, economic background, or culture.
They have been doing studies long enough to know this now.

That's funny my kids turned out just fine.

Something recent on self-esteem:



article (full article must be purchased)

I wonder if the obsession for ultra high self esteem helped lead to our prozac nation.

No, that would be those egomaniacal drug companies.

You are probably right.
If they can sell use expensive medication that can eat our liver up for nail fungus, they can sell us anything.

I agree with the observation in the new revelations. I find every one of the the "Conversations" books I've read thus far make a great deal of sense and are astute observations of the contemporary socio-religious conflict inherent in not only Christianity, but all organized religions.

I also think the self-esteem issue is quite correct and is made quite clear that that is the intent of the Judeo-Christian faith. (The religion I choose to refer to in this, because that was my initial religious instruction) To put in writing that god "said" that man, the first creation in the image and likeness of the creator, and women the bearers of life especially, were damned for daring to gain awareness against god's command to remain ignorant.
I can say therefore, from my personal experience; I am not a Christian because I am not possessed of the mind of a slave or sheep as the analogy may be. I think if one believes they are created in the image and likeness of a creator, it is incumbent upon that creation to own a sense of self respect/esteem for being that child of the creator. If one seeks to bow to that which created the reverent as lowly, unworthy beings, it says no great thing for the creator that created them so and then commanded allegiance amid the suffering that god damned them to suffer for daring to think higher of themselves.





What would you credit to strangers that you would not to yourself? And what value would that credit afford to those others, if you do not hold it in your own self first? What can you give others that you do not have for yourself?

I wish that you see in yourself what you see in those others you speak of. You are a unique creation that shall never live again. Your level of self-esteem, (self honor), is what reflects your respect for this opportunity called; your life.
I don't know you, however I know that much.

Venom great topic as you know one of my personal favorites...


Bella, bella, bella, your Dogma is showing... shh but i won't tell anyone..
I have several clients that are physcologists and there is a little joke in the therapist community if it wasn't for Religon there'd be no need for their proffession...

Hyper good article I'd add that one can't change behavior through the behavior one has to change how they beleive, change the beleief the behavior follows suit, input If one is trying to 'change how they percieve themselves but still investing in the religious construct it is only at best a bandaid..Becasue until you address the beleif structure .... whats .Your professional input Hyper

. Curiousity as always a great voice saturated in wisdom...

bella you surprise me i think you are a mother correct??? Parents model the world to the child including religon nothing is more damaging IMO thatn crippling a child with religon, beleifs are behavior.......

Do a simple thing, compare the psychological problems related with low self-esteem of the more secularized western nations like the USA, Sweden or Netherlands with those of the more devoted countries like Italy, Spain or Brazil.

Talks of shame....
Isaiah 50:7
For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.



Talks of courage....

2 Chronicles 19:11
And, behold, Amariah the chief priest is over you in all matters of the LORD; and Zebadiah the son of Ishmael, the ruler of the house of Judah, for all the king's matters: also the Levites shall be officers before you. Deal courageously, and the LORD shall be with the good.



Talks of strength....
Judges 5:21
The river of Kishon swept them away, that ancient river, the river Kishon. O my soul, thou hast trodden down strength.




...how is that related to "good self image" or a "good self worth"?
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.




Talks of endurance ....
Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,




Being a leader......
Proverbs 12:24
The hand of the diligent shall bear rule: but the slothful shall be under tribute.

Where is the good.......

EDIT: Try posting the whole verse next time

It depends on how you yourself perceive its "knowledge"(organized religion). If you see a finger pointed directly at you every time you open a religious doctrine then that’s your conclusion and that doesn’t necessarily hold true for the rest of the world .


~ADHD~

my opinion, humanity has made it just fine without our modern concept of "self-esteem." Most of the world still does. i dont see the need for the western world to have fussed over it for the past century or so. there are certainly... safer places to place one's worth and identity in other than oneself.

Well that is an interesting logic, being as all things start withself, people with a healthy self esteem seem to have fuller life experinces and a genereal sense of well being which is not only benefical to themselves but to all others....

Yadda Yadda Yadda. I don't believe it makes anyone have low self esteam. Not in the least. I don't know a single Christian with low self esteam to be honest.

Zero what is self esteem IYO??????

LOL, where do you put it then??

where is the bad?


religion teaches the exact opposite of the article



that takes away the fear and self esteem arguments right there

im tired of these "experts of religion" talking about all this stuff and about how horrible religion tries to make you feel and that its responsible for people being poor. none of this is true...at all. most religions teach love, not to fear, and to enjoy life and be happy.

Zandore your counter reaction was more than pointless- okay, so you filled out the entire verses? Hows it change anything that i said? You say theres no good in any of the quotes? Thats such a weak response. The Bible is FULL of words that inspire the mind, body and soul and if you dont see it then you are blind to its goodness. No its not a flawless book- i've admitted to it having bad things in it- but what im saying is that theres not enough support in the argument that the religious have no self esteem- the Bible teaches that we are great, can become leaders, are powerful, have strength and courage and you ask wheres the good in that?

First three illusions we fall into...

God has an agenda - Need exists. With the teachings of Christianity they say God has a plan. In order to be a part of that plan the illusion of 'need' is created. In other words people feel they 'need' to do what is required in order to be a part of that plan. This creates the next illusion.

Outcome of life is in doubt - Failure exists. From the story of Adam and Eve came the creation of a possible evil, which was given the term Satan. From this story it is said that God would judge people according to what path they led. This in turn created fear. And this is where the fact that many organized religions are based off of fear, the fear of not living the life good enough to be accepted by God. Thus the illusion of failure was created from this fact.

You are seperate from God - Disunity exists. From the illusion created above came the idea that we are not all one, not one with God. This created the idea that we are seperate from God, we are all seperate. This was not originally meant to be a negative aspect since there would be no way of realizing the wonder of all being one had we not created the illusion of disunity. But with the organized religions and their teachings, disunity has been taken to a higher degree by the fear that has been created that God is seperate and that we never are one with God, rather we can be accepted by God into the kingdom of heaven. With disunity comes the illusion of judgement against others who are not living the way of God, therefore we create more and more illusions based on our seperation.

excellent

Ram a key componant in a good sense of self esteem is pride in ones self.

Is not pride one of the seven deadly sins?

When you start looking at the meanings of specific words like this, it is best to get the word in its orginal language and to find the orginal intended meaning of the word,

What word might that be?

^I think she was referring to the word 'pride'.


~ADHD~

Perhaps a reference to those "specific meanings" Bella referenced , was cut off by the server, given the apostrophe that appears at the end of the open sentence she posted. *not uncommon in my experience here* as it makes little sense to make such a statement and not elaborate.

Bad server, bad bad!

i fully agree with that too

Phenomenal explanation.

I also would like to add that,

"Most of you, therefore, spend much of your adult lives searching for the “right way” to worship God, to obey God, to serve God. The irony of all this is that I do not want your worship, I do not need your obedience, and it is not necessary to serve me.

These behaviors are the behaviors historically demanded of their subjects by monarchs--egomaniacal, insecure, tyrannical monarchs at that. They are not Godly demands in any sense, and it seems remarkable that the world hasn’t by now concluded that the demands are counterfeit, having nothing to do with the needs of Deity.

Deity has no needs. All That Is, is exactly that: all that is. It therefore wants, or lacks, nothing---by definition."
-from my previous topic

Low self-esteem can be caused by any number of factors. Not just religous teaching. Although it may be one of the root causes of low self-esteem.

If low self-esteem is induced by religon;by the teaching that you are not worthy of God and that no one is, you would also by extension see everyone else as not worthy of God. Everyone is considered unworthy, but if u feel that some are more unworthy than others, its still low self-esteem all the way around.

On the flip side if you believe yourself to be an integral part of God, and that god IS everything at the fundamental level, and all seperation is merely an illusion for the purpose of experience; then your concept of self-esteem could turn around for the better.

groups. family, friends, church, my "occupation" etc. but i am a man torn between two worlds, i have to work at doing that.

ask and you shall recieve. paraphrasing somewhat from Malina and Pilch's Handbook of Bibilcal Social Values, proud behavior is attempting to advance oneself at the expense of others. Strong's definition of one of the words translated as pride in the NT is the character of one who, with a swollen estimate of his own powers or merits, looks down on others and even treats them with insolence and contempt. all of the others are along similar lines. OT usage varies between the "good" and "bad" pride. From my very brief overview, it looks like there are seperate words for each in the OT with little bit of overlap for one or two words.

So your 'self-worth' and 'identity are depenendent and derived on external factors?? Using your line of logic then your 'self-worth/identity' would lower if you family breaks a part, your friends leave you, your church falls apart, and you lose your job?

Im sorry but that to me, is quite dysfunctional. Basing your self-worth on external factors is dangerous, because external factors are subject to change. And as such ur self-worth would change in relation to your enviroment. In essence your enviroment and external factors control you and you are at their whim. Such is the life of a person who's life is a 'reaction' rather than a 'creation'. Also the problem is that all material things will pass away, and eventually churches will crumble, famlily members will die, friends will die, you will retire from your occupation. Where is your self-worth now? In the past? Some do attach all their sel-fworth to past events, and then live in the past, highly dysfuctional again. Others who dont even do this, and become extremelly depressed because their self identity was attached to things that are now gone... Again dysfunctional.

Your self-worth can only be determined by you. You decide how much your worth, not other for you. Thus your self-worth is derived from the self.

Know that ALL is worthy, and that the ALL is perfect. Nothing is fundamentally 'better' or 'worse' than anything else. All is divine!

quite the motivation to keep those things together and prevent problems becoming something that could threaten the group. certainly it wouldnt be pleasant if all that happened, but neither would be getting hit by a car. that doesnt mean that i'll be spending the rest of my life inside a concrete bunker.
and basing one's self worth on oneself isnt dangerous? in my experience, individuals are much more prone to failure and corruption than a group.
and an individual is not controlled by their environment?
i dont think most people would call human connections material things. but anyway, there are nearly 6.5 billion people in this world, i'm sure i would have little trouble finding some other group.
i love irony.