Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Goddess Earth and the New Age Church
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs
Irish
Goddess Earth and the New Age Church

RNU.com – (Raiders News Update) - In her excellent books—Trojan Horse, How the New Age Movement Infiltrates the Church, and Goddess Earth—Samantha Smith started warning two decades ago that the church was in danger of losing sound theological footing to an invasion of New Age/Occultic concepts and techniques that are now commonly flowing through all major denominations. The revolution, she said, would be subtle, cumulative and deadly.
She was right.
In the latest edition of the Southwestern Journal of Theology, statistics show that the past decade of ‘mixing and matching’ of religious beliefs within all major Christian denominations has become common. The study cites research by the Barna Group which notes that Christians have adopted spiritual views from not only Islam and secular humanism, but Eastern religions and Wiccan witchcraft.

Another phenomena that Smith predicted would plant seeds of paganism in the church was the environmental movement leading to earth worship.

In a National Review commentary recently, Christopher Horner wrote, "The green crusade is now crafting a new way for its own troubling religion to pervert traditional faith. Having fought in federal court to deny its religiosity — and thus continue its life-sustaining flow of taxpayer dollars — the Down With People machine is donning religious vestments and teaming up with the Bush administration to tap the president's faith-based initiative.

"CNSNews.com reports that 'EPA is informally seeking 'ideas' regarding how religious groups who promote green causes like climate change and pollution controls, can qualify for the White House's faith-based funds.' The very idea of green evangelizing infecting Bush's faith-based initiative should raise alarm, since the movement has far more in common with pagan themes than with traditional tenets of faith."

What's more worrisome is the goals of "greens" past, present, and future. Gaia-ism points to humanity - especially western civilization - as the world's great evil.

"Western Culture [is perceived as] the root of all evil," Smith observed. "These are some of the teachings of what is little more than the bastardized products of Eastern mysticism. Now called New Age religion, it culminates in deep ecology, eco-feminism and the worship of an ancient Greek God called Gaia - Mother Earth.

"Gaia teaches that man has damaged or destroyed the fragile balance of nature. Disciples of Gaia believe that all living things on earth are interconnected (except man) and to damage or destroy even a tiny insect is to damage whole ecological systems. Such a premise was the basis for Vice President Al Gore's book, "Earth in the Balance."'

So if man is the problem, what should be done about it? Horner reminds us that the faith-based funds-seeking environmental movement (a.k.a. EPA's Gaia worshippers) have a paper trail detailing their answer to the "people are pollution" quandary.

"To feed a starving child is to exacerbate the world population problem." Lamont Cole (as quoted by Elizabeth Whelan in her book Toxic Terror)

"This is as good a way to get rid of them as any." Charles Wursta, Chief Scientist for the Environmental Defense Fund, commenting on the likelihood of millions dying from a global ban on DDT (also quoted in Toxic Terror)

"I got the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds, I should go out and shoot the kids who shoot birds." Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace (quoted in Access to Energy, vol. 10, no. 4, Dec. 1982)

"The right to have children should be a marketable commodity, bought and traded by individuals but absolutely limited by the state." Kenneth Boulding, originator of the "Spaceship Earth" concept (quoted by William Tucker in Progress and Privilege, 1982)

"The only real good technology is no technology at all. Technology is taxation without representation, imposed by our elitist species [man] upon the rest of the natural world." John Shuttleworth, Friends of the Earth manual writer

In an effort to make contact with the Gaia consciousness in order to extrapolate her gospel, a representative of The American Policy Center attended a meeting in Boulder (Colorado), called by Jose Arguelles (leader of PAN and New Age Transformation) where participants were presented with the idea that the earth is a living, spiritual being, that can feel pain.

The group was asked to tune in to the crystal matrix frequency (Mother Earth's heartbeat) and to relax. Many went into trance-like states. As people felt they were being filled with the Earth's energy, they became vocal, with sounds rising and falling rhythmically. Some swayed and some fell down on the ground and began writhing. They were then 'brought to silence.'

Arguelles told the audience to concentrate on a cloud floating overhead, just drifting, and then told them to invite the cloud in to fill the empty spirit, the empty soul. He said to invite "PAN" in, accepting him as the leader and guide for their lives.

Jose explained that Pan was the first son of Mother Earth and used to live close to his mother in the primeval forest with his brothers and sisters, who went out and founded the temple-building societies (Aztecs, Egyptians, etc,). When Pan refused to join his siblings in the cities, they called him evil and Satan. They invented their own selfish religion, Christianity, which must be removed because it includes a vision of an Apocalypse.

The Boulder audience was told that 'right now Mother Earth is bringing Pan back to save us and lead us into the New Age. We can help by surrendering to him, tuning into the crystal matrix frequencies and carrying out the directions received while tuned in.' Arguelles explained this might include the physical removal of Christians, because they are the biggest obstacle to transformation."

(Pan, cloven-hoofed half man/half beast is one of the infernal names given to Satan in Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible.)

source
mako
All of that would tell me that the Church is not satisfying it's adherents. That it is not offering the truth and the congregation can smell falsity in what is being taught. This is not the middle ages where the people didn't have enough education to see the absurdity offered up. Modern man is too well educated not to question fantastic claims. He demands fantastic verifiable evidence for those claims and when it is not easily coming, adds other items to his personal beliefs. yes.gif
Irish
QUOTE(mako @ Mar 7 2006, 12:52 PM) [snapback]1093494[/snapback]

All of that would tell me that the Church is not satisfying it's adherents. That it is not offering the truth and the congregation can smell falsity in what is being taught. This is not the middle ages where the people didn't have enough education to see the absurdity offered up. Modern man is too well educated not to question fantastic claims. He demands fantastic verifiable evidence for those claims and when it is not easily coming, adds other items to his personal beliefs. yes.gif

To some that is relevant observation. I see the scriptures, the law and the word of God unchanged since they were written. That is the reason that my faith is strong It is that unchanging, unbending that make the bible relevant to me. I like the idea of a solid foundation in which to build my faith upon.
Other may not see my foundation as strong as I do, but it has supported me for nearly fifty years and I am not exactly a lightweight.
Do you believe the Church should be satisfying its adherents or the other way around?
Irish
Kismit
Irish,
you know I think you're great, but I have so many issues with this story it's hard to know where to start.

However I will start with this...
QUOTE
The revolution, she said, would be subtle, cumulative and deadly.


Deadly? Deadly!!? What? I mean isn't that just a tad sensationalist.

The nature based faiths actually do include man as interconnected, they don't see humans or Westerners as the enemy. After all if we are all connected there is no enemy, no Us and Them. What the evil Greens do believe, and this story seems to consider them evil and the enemy, is that the Earth is our most important asset and we should look after it. And you know, I think perhaps that isn't evil but sensible.

I'm sorry but that was one of the most biased and awful things I have ever read. Worded in such a way as to insite hatred towards religions that are not trying to convert you to there way of thinking as the story claims or trying to get Government funding,(no government funding in New Zealand) but just trying to speak out for the next generation.

Where is the harm in a religion which puts the Planet first?
capeo
QUOTE(Irish @ Mar 7 2006, 03:05 PM) [snapback]1093516[/snapback]

To some that is relevant observation. I see the scriptures, the law and the word of God unchanged since they were written. That is the reason that my faith is strong It is that unchanging, unbending that make the bible relevant to me. I like the idea of a solid foundation in which to build my faith upon.
Other may not see my foundation as strong as I do, but it has supported me for nearly fifty years and I am not exactly a lightweight.
Do you believe the Church should be satisfying its adherents or the other way around?
Irish


The fact of the matter is its adherents are going to satisfy themselves whether the church wants them to or not. Christianity has continually changed throughout history to reach more people and it will continue to do so. I, being a pretty strident environmentalist, can tell you that article is intentionally mixing the wacky fringe of a sound movement with the moderate side of it to discredit the entire thing. It's an old tactic (you Christians should be used it from particularly heartless skeptics) and is not a good representation of the organizations (some Christian) that are out there doing a lot of work to make sure our kids don't live on planet devoid of life.
Rosencruez
QUOTE(mako @ Mar 7 2006, 11:52 AM) [snapback]1093494[/snapback]

All of that would tell me that the Church is not satisfying it's adherents. That it is not offering the truth and the congregation can smell falsity in what is being taught. This is not the middle ages where the people didn't have enough education to see the absurdity offered up. Modern man is too well educated not to question fantastic claims. He demands fantastic verifiable evidence for those claims and when it is not easily coming, adds other items to his personal beliefs. yes.gif


Bingo.

The irony of it all is that Christianity from the very beginning was a wholesale ripoff of PAGAN teachings, especially those within the mystery schools, such as the Orphics, the Eleusian mysteries, the Mithraic mysteries, the Cabiric mysteries, the Hermetic mysteries. I suggest a thorough reading of ...

SHADOW OF THE THIRD CENTURY: A REVALUATION OF CHRISTIANITY, by Dr. Alvin Boyd Kuhn.

[Click on the blue chapter headings on the side to scroll through the text.]
Rosencruez
"The gist of what will constitute the introductory datum is to be found expressed with wholly unexpected frankness and conclusiveness in a statement of the sainted Augustine, who has often been given the title of "Founder of Christian Theology." This citation from his writings virtually could stand as the "golden text" of our work, as it is a concise epitome and summary of the central theme. Its reproduction in this connection and at this juncture of world affairs could well become the solvent of most of the tragic misunderstandings responsible for the present world confusion. It will stand in the present work as the firing of the opening gun in a battle that will be waged from now on to unseat from its throne of power in the domain of mass consciousness that weird and fantastic delusion of literalized and historicized Scriptural myths which has steeped the minds of untold millions in doltish superstition over so many centuries under the name of Christianity. It is by no means an indulgence in extravagant fancy to assert that it is world-shaking in its implications. Here it is:

"That which is known as the Christian religion existed among the ancients, and never did not exist; from the very beginning of the human race until the time when Christ came in the flesh, at which time the true religion, which already existed, began to be called Christianity." -- Retractt. I, xiii.


----Alvin Boyd Kuhn, Shadow of the Third Century.
Irish
QUOTE(Rosencruez @ Mar 8 2006, 10:10 AM) [snapback]1094937[/snapback]

Bingo.

The irony of it all is that Christianity from the very beginning was a wholesale ripoff of PAGAN teachings, especially those within the mystery schools, such as the Orphics, the Eleusian mysteries, the Mithraic mysteries, the Cabiric mysteries, the Hermetic mysteries. I suggest a thorough reading of ...

SHADOW OF THE THIRD CENTURY: A REVALUATION OF CHRISTIANITY, by Dr. Alvin Boyd Kuhn.

[Click on the blue chapter headings on the side to scroll through the text.]


Mithras
By Mark McFall

This investigation of Mithraism will mainly focus on the critics assertion that Christianity borrowed the resurrection myth from Mithra. The reason that we will be zooming in on the resurrection and not similarities in sacraments is because the very heart of the Gospel rests in the resurrection narrative. If the resurrection was borrowed from pagan influences and did not historically happen, then as Paul says: "...if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain" (1 Corn. 15:14).

Assertions made by critics for a Mithra-Jesus connection abound in literature critical of Christianity. One such example can be found in the works of contemporary Muslim scholar Yousuf Saleem Chishti in his book "What is Christianity". Chishti writes:

"The Christian doctrine of atonement was greatly coloured by the influence of the mystery religions, especially Mithraism, which had its own son of God and virgin Mother, and crucifixion and resurrection after expiating for the sins of mankind and finally his ascension to the 7th heaven....If you study the teachings of Mithraism side by side with that of Christianity, you are sure to be amazed at the close affinity which is visible between them, so much so that many critics are constrained to conclude that Christianity is the facsimile or the second edition of Mithraism."1

Another leading proponent of that view is Acharya S in her critical book The Christ Conspiracy, she states that Mithra "was buried in a tomb and after three days rose again". 2 These alleged direct connections with Jesus must be backed with evidence - and as Christians we must demand such evidence.



Where Is That Evidence?

This subject basically comes down to who is more informed in Mithriac origins, and my intentions are to equip you with adequate critical information. What some critics seem to be unaware of is that attempts to reconstruct the beliefs and practices of Mithraism face enormous challenges because of the lack of information that has survived. In fact, we posses no existing texts of their belief system that come from the Mithraic devotees themselves (one is left wondering what sources Chishti knows about that the rest of Mithraic scholars are unaware of). The only references that we have concerning the beliefs of Mithraism are found in early Church fathers (for the reason of defending Christ’s uniqueness) and Platonic philosophers who used Mithraic symbolism for their own philosophical ideas.3



Archaeology And Timing

According to scholars, our late literary sources are extremely sparse concerning Mithriasm. However, there is an abundance of material evidence (i.e. artifacts) for the existence of Mithraism that has been found in underground temples (i.e. imitation caves) referred to as mithraeums.

Attempts concerning dating methods have been made in the past in an endeavor to place at least one of these mithraeum in the first century era. Professor Ronald Nash the author of The Gospel And The Greeks, captures one of these moments by the Swedish scholar George Widengren. He claimed that an excavation at Dura (Europos) is a mithraeum dated to A.D. 80-85 which points to the possible presence of a Mithraic cult before the end of the first century A.D..4 Critics who cite Widengren dating system should do well to know that Widengren himself has admitted that "the evidence is very uncertain."5 According to other scholars, including the noted mithriac scholar M.J. Vermaseren, the Dura Mithraeum that Widengren dated so early should be dated much later, in A.D. 168.6

Archaeologist have found in these subterranean mithraeums artifacts of carved reliefs, statues, and paintings, depicting a variety of enigmatic figures and scenes.7 These images are our only primary source of knowledge about Mithraic beliefs8 (there are no written accounts to aid us in interpreting these images). Mithraic scholars identify the particular depiction of Mithras in the act of killing a bull as the central icon of Mithraism known as the tauroctony or "bull-slaying scene." In this scene Mithras is accompanied by a dog, a snake, a raven, and a scorpion.9

According Nash, none of these representative "monuments for the cult can be dated earlier than A.D. 90-100."10 Nash identifies this as "one of the major reasons why no Mithraic influence on first-century Christianity is possible."11 Indeed, the bulk of out-side references for Roman Mithraism date between the 2nd-5th centuries.12These late literary out-side sources are the only means in which scholars (or critics) attempt to form reconstruction’s of what they think (uncritically) were the beliefs of earlier pioneers for the mystery cult. This type of reasoning is particularly bad scholarship and should not be left without challenge.



source
Byuu94
My problem with the topic article is that the author takes the views of radical pagans and 'greens' and uses those radical ideas to define all earth-based religions and groups.
Essentially, it would be as if I quoted a KKK Grand Dragon on his views about race and said that all Christians believed the same way.
Rosencruez
Irish ...

Read the works of David Ulansey, especially The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries (Oxford University), familiarize yourself with it, and get back with me.
Irish
QUOTE(Rosencruez @ Mar 8 2006, 10:59 AM) [snapback]1095039[/snapback]

Irish ...

Read the works of David Ulansey, especially The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries (Oxford University), familiarize yourself with it, and get back with me.


I have read some of Davids Ulansey work and for the most part he is a credible religions historian, however the Mithraic beliefs and practices that Christianity is accused of "stealing" did not come into vogue until the end of the first century at the earliest, far too late to shape the Gospels and their depiction of Jesus.
Many serious differences exist between the myth of Mithras and the Gospel accounts of Jesus’ life. In some accounts, Mithras is "born" by "being forced out of a rock as if by some hidden magic power. He is shown naked save for the Phrygian cap, holding dagger and torch in his uplifted hands" (Abstracted from Mithras, the Secret God, M.J. Vermaseren [London, 1963]). In the Persian legends, he was born of a virgin mother, Anahita (once worshipped as a fertility goddess), who swam in Lake Hamun in the Persian province of Sistan where Zoroaster/ Zarathustra had left sperm four hundred years earlier. Christians believe Jesus is born of a virgin Jewish girl, by the power of the Holy Spirit.
The central feat of Mithras’ life on earth was the capturing and killing of a stolen bull at the command of the god Apollo, symbolizing the annual spring renewal of life. While Mithras was subduing the bull, other animals joined in the fray. After Mithras finished his appointed task, he and Apollo quarreled, but eventually reconciled and feasted together (Peter Clark, Zoroastrianism, An Introduction to an Ancient Faith, 157-158). The central accomplishments of Jesus’ life were his death and resurrection, which Christians believe were historical events that took place in first century Palestine–not in a nebulous mythic netherworld. Other key differences include the Gnostic-like dualism of the Mithraic belief system and a belief that the human soul has fallen from its heavenly home and must now ascend, after a time of testing here on earth, back to heaven.
Mithraism did not originally have a concept of a god who died and was then resurrected (Nash, The Gospel and the Greeks, 136-7; E.O. James, Comparative Religion [New York: University Paperbacks, 1961], 246-9). Despite the claims made in The Da Vinci Code, there is no ancient account of Mithras dying, being buried "in a rock tomb, and then resurrected in three days" (The Da Vinci Code, 232). That assertion apparently is taken (either directly or from a second-generation source) from Kersey Graves’ The World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors (1875), a work of pseudo-scholarship and anti-Christian polemics that is so shoddy that even atheists and agnostics disavow it. Graves writes that several pagan deities, including " ‘Mithra the Mediator’ of Persia did, according to their respective histories, rise from the dead after three days' burial" (chapter 19). However, Graves provides no documentation (his common practice). E.O. James, who was professor of history and philosophy of religion at the University of London, references an ancient work by Pseudo-Dionysus when he notes that "in contrast to the other Graeco-Oriental Mystery divinities, the Persian saviour-god [Mithras] did not himself pass through death to life, though by his sacrificial act [killing a bull] he was a life-giver" (E.O. James, Comparative Religion [New York: University Paperbacks, 1961], 247). James later observes that Mithraism–which was a strong adversary of Christianity in the third and fourth centuries–was overcome by Christianity, not by being absorbed, "but because the Church was able to meet its adversary on the sure ground of historical fact." Christianity went far beyond "the ancient seasonal drama with its polytheistic background" and offered initiates a "renewal of spiritual life and regeneration of outlook . . . to a degree unknown and unattainable in any rival system. Therefore, Christianity ultimately prevailed because it provided a different gift of life from that bestowed in the pagan cults." (248-9).
Source
stargazer123
Worshipping crystal matrixes and writhing around on the floor? it isn't much different than some Christian churches to me. The pentecostals speak in tongues and writhe around on the floor saying they have the holy spirit in them.
Rosencruez
Irish, your clunky literalism is preventing you from perceiving the obvious: that the myths of Mithras, of Demeter and Persephone, of Isis, Osiris and Horus, are but one and the same with the Jesus myth. They are but the drama of the soul, with only the place settings changed.

The only difference is that Aries (the Lamb) has been substituted for Taurus (the Bull) in the Pass-over that occurs when the Solar Hero passes through those constellations, crucifying them on the cross (the ecliptic and equatorial arcs) at the Vernal Equinox marking the Light's victory over darkness. Its time we slew the dead fish (Pisces) and moved on from the superstitions of a previous era. After all, it was all in your head --- Golgotha, the place of the Skull --- to begin with.

Cro maat,
A frater
Mekorig
jejejejeje...i love when asented religions cry about new religions forming and stealing cattle,err.., i mean, followers.
Apple
I don't know much about this Gaia religion, but they seem a bit extreme.

Physical removal of Christians? Satan? What....what the hell! (no pun intended)

I am Pagan, which makes me a member of one of the many New Age Movements and Gaia is so........not pagan!

My teachings center around respecting The Mother (earth and Nature). Meditation is a part of my practice, but it is to relax the mind and the body in order to become more tranquil, to step into the circle with an easy mind, bringing none of the stress of modern life into my rites. We practice tolerance in all things. Yes we respect earth and are concerned about the condition modern technology has put upon it, but to wage 'war' against thoes who do not believe in our system is heavily against our faith. For me, all faiths, big, small, new or old are equal. No one is above or better than the other. No one is more right or more wrong, they are just different paths. We are all different, why shouldn't we have different beliefs?
I'm a bit worried, this whole thing is sheding a not so good light on New Age movement.

It outrages me a bit. I've never read something so...prejudiced. I just....oh goodness I do not like this at all.

Pax Unum
QUOTE(Mekorig @ Mar 8 2006, 05:36 PM) [snapback]1095575[/snapback]

jejejejeje...i love when asented religions cry about new religions forming and stealing cattle,err.., i mean, followers.


LOL thumbsup.gif
joc
QUOTE
Irish, your clunky literalism is preventing you from perceiving the obvious: that the myths of Mithras, of Demeter and Persephone, of Isis, Osiris and Horus, are but one and the same with the Jesus myth. They are but the drama of the soul, with only the place settings changed.


Well, it might be obvious as you say were it not for one very important thing...most people have never heard of Mithras, Demeter And Persephone...but everyone has heard of Jesus.
Why is it that 2000 years have passed and Christianity is still in the forefront? Is it because it was just a myth? How is it that so many intelligent people believe a myth?

There is a reason and it is the personal experiences a person goes through when they 'believe' the 'myth'.

But to the point of the thread: As Jesus said, You cannot serve two masters. The church is now attempting to do just that.
Rosencruez
Apple. I'm sure you'll find there are a lot of loopy misrepresentations of pagan beliefs here. You find people in the conspiracy and secret society section, for example, that will go to their graves believing wholeheartedly that Freemasons worship Lucifer no matter what evidence is presented to them.

I'd like to say don't waste your time beating your head against the wall ... except it gets annoying continually seeing the same old lies passed on by fundamentalists that go unchallenged. No mas.

---Rosencruez
Rosencruez
QUOTE(joc @ Mar 8 2006, 08:13 PM) [snapback]1096015[/snapback]

Well, it might be obvious as you say were it not for one very important thing...most people have never heard of Mithras, Demeter And Persephone...but everyone has heard of Jesus.
Why is it that 2000 years have passed and Christianity is still in the forefront? Is it because it was just a myth? How is it that so many intelligent people believe a myth?

There is a reason and it is the personal experiences a person goes through when they 'believe' the 'myth'.

But to the point of the thread: As Jesus said, You cannot serve two masters. The church is now attempting to do just that.


The church has gone to great lengths to make sure that you've never heard of Mithras, Demeter, Persephone, and so on except in the most outrageous mischaracterizations and cartoonish slanderings of what they represented to the ancient mind. People can experience many things through the phenomenon of mass hypnotism and self-delusion.
Apple
I agree. In school a literature class will happily go over myths and legends, but they like to beat it into your head that it is just that, a myth and a legend. Oh, but wait, has no one ever heard of the scripture written only 30 years after the death of Jesus (or the rising)? Most of the 'credited' scriptures that are now part of the Bible were written many more years after the fact, but this one scripture describs what happened to Jesus after he died. It goes like this:

After his death, Jesus, like many others, descended into hell and brought salvation to the innocent who burned there, thoes who asked for forgiveness at that moment were granted just that and rose to glorious heaven. Oh, look, there's that missing piece about exactly how Jesus's death granted forgiveness to sinners.

Why isn't it apart of the Bible. Well, the Church believed it sounded to mythological. Hmmm....why would the Church not want one of the first scriptures written to be apart of the Bible just because it sounded Mythological?

My Nana, Rest Her Soul, taught me one thing about the Chruch and the Bible. Many Christians have a deep misunderstanding of what exactly the Bible is. They wroship the bible, taking it's 'teachings' far to seriously. Not that you shouldn't if it your belief, but she explained to me that the bible had been written in a forgotton language, some of the words and phrases were metaphores and only examples for how you should live. You had to read between the lines and find the real meaning inside of yourself.

She also taught me that, if read coreectly, you begin to see that the Bible contradicts itself. The very first lesson in the Bible is misleading temptation, is it not? She said that the Bible warns you for what you will later find, and that is the Bible itself is a test. You must pick you own path, decide what you choose to believe and what you choose not to. That's what our free will is for.

My Nana was a deeply spirtual person, very grounded...I believe she may have been a Holy Woman, witnessing many miracles in her lifetime, some that would have made her a Saint in forigen countries. That was my proof that there was a single diety, and that faith had power, real love and real truth. So why am I pagan?

The most important thing she taught me was that all faiths will pass through the gates of heaven, no matter what name they call HIM. Also, I believe the actual wording of the comandment is "Thou shal worship no other god before me." Could that be a kind of 'certainty' that there are many deities who deserve worship, but none worshipped 'before' the worshipping of only the ONE. Or perhaps none worshipped so passionatly as the ONE.

I'm not flamming the Bible, my no means, I see it and Christianity as I do every religion, just a different path, no more or less credible than any other. All I'm saying is that different groups spend too much time questioning the crediablity of other faiths, when the crediablity of thier own is just as questionable.

Faith isn't about being right or wrong, it's about having faith, and as long as someone has faith, shouldn't that be enough?
stargazer123
Apple

Your nana sounds like a very spiritual self thinker. Thanks for sharing. My grandpa was the same way. Although he was catholic and was a deecon he used to tell me not to take the bible so literally. He felt some of the stories a good reflection but always used to tell me you might actually lose your spirituality if you depend too much on book and forget whats inside.

You asked is faith enough? Just my own opinion but I think love, kindness, and compassion is enough. If you can't display these atrributes towards humanity and what one percieves to be God than I think it cancels faith out. I would rather my children love me and love eachother than just believe I gave birth to them. very nice post and story about you nana. original.gif
Rosencruez
So, Irish, I'm assuming you think the Catholic Church went to hell-in-a-handbasket after the Second Vatican Council. That is, if you are a traditionalist like the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. Perhaps there are a few SSPX priests in your area. Lefebvre was always paranoid that the Masons, the "Modernists," had infiltrated the church. "Vatican II is the French Revolution in the Church!" was his big slogan. He claimed that mgr. Bugnini, who wrote the Novus Ordo mass was a Freemason. Then again, Lefebvre also claimed the Alta Vendita of the Carbonari was out to get the Vatican and had infiltrated it. The SSPX's little booklet on the Carbonari must have been written by someone with a junior high level education and intellect.

Waaaah. Everyone's out to get me. Sounds too much like the SSPX lends too much credence to the discredited Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

I'm speaking with disdain about the SSPX ... even though one of my good friends is still a traditionalist. Seafood Sal is still the man!

Cheers,
Rosencruez
Infrazael
Too hilarious.

Rosencruez, if I may ask where did most of you research come from? Myself, I plan on minoring in Theology OR Philosophy (depending on Whim probably) in College.

Got any starts?

For the main part I'm just an Occult theorist who's an ex-Christian coverted to Nihilism lol.

So, any good books or such to get into basic Theology? I find the Abrahamic Religions to be particular interesting, although I do share my interest in more ancient cultures such as Egyptian, Sumerian and South American paganism.

Thanks
Rosencruez
Perhaps the bulk of what has influenced me has come through the Rosicrucian Order, AMORC ... a pretty "mainstream" esoteric organization, if you will. One of my all-time favorite books on Rosicrucianism is found online. Written by the late Frater Raymond Bernard, Messages from the Cathedral of the Soul is certainly a classic in the field.

On a completely different tack, I highly recommend the Book of the Hopi for a confirmation of many of the world's esoteric teaching and esoteric history.

For a quick read of something online that can rapidly revolutionize the way you think about ancient religions, I recommend Dr. Alvin Boyd Kuhn's "The Lost Meaning of Death."

Then there is a large part of the whole Theosophical Library online. I find many works there to be of value.

If you are drawn to Nordic teachings, and the Temple of Set, eventually you may find yourself gravitating to Edred Thorsson's "The Nine Doors of Midgard." Of course, you can always start with the Rune Guild itself.

There is much to learn, much to explore. But ultimately all you have to do is "know thyself."

Cro maat,
Rosencruez


Infrazael
Thank you very much sir. Since I'm a horrible organizer, I do seek to involve myself in some sort of Occult organization, simply so that I have a syllabus to work off and actually achieve a result.

Simply due to my personality that is.

I must ask you, however, your interpretation of Mr. Anton LeVay and his philosophies. I find myself in disagreement with several of them, but I would like your view as I am quite disgusted with the labeling of the Church of Satan, ESPECIALLY by White Magickians who are trying to make a name for themselves [there are some out there who are extreme annoyances, and for a lack of intelligence, "attention whores."]

Thanks
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.