TY.
Hahaha!

Firstly, some Jews do believe Yeshua was the Messiah. Your line above makes a sweeping assumption that no Jew has ever believed Yeshua to be the annointed one. In fact Jesus disciples were jewish, as was Paul etc etc who founded Christianity!!!

Jesus has fulfilled over 300 of the messianic prophecies, as he has done this much I will be more than willing to believe him when he states the rest is yet to come. Where is the rule in Jewish scripture demanding Messiah to fullfill everything at once?
Please tell me the verse I would really really love to read it!!!!

As a Jew, I hate to burst your bubble, but if they accept Yeshua as the Messiah, they aren't Jews, they are Christians. Only their ancestry is Jewish, but they left that behind when they converted. The belief part of being a Jew is much more important than the bloodline.

This is tough....I am in two minds about him to be honest....I used to believe in him 100% when I was a Catholic...but a lot has changed since then, as I now wonder was e really here after all??? Thing is we don't have proof...and by looking at your post tags you strongly believe he really did exist regardless of the proof...thats quite alright after all it's your opinion...but for me I still don't know...I wont know the real truth till I die...in fact none of us will....

As a catholic...I was taught to believe that Jesus was a great man...perfect even..and not a liar of any kind....now that I am in two minds wether to believe he did exist or not...I can't say if he was a liar or not...

If I knew for sure he did exist and all that was written about him...then I would most likely believe he wasn't a liar *shrugs*

So what you are saying is this,
If a Jew believes in the true Messiah he no longer is a Jew?

Way to go Lamont

Becks mum as you seem to agree with lamont here tell me this;
you probably will refuse to answer i know but here goes...
If a Jew believes in the true Messiah is he/she no longer a Jew?
Should be a pretty easy answer for you!

If a jew believes in the "true Messiah" then they aren't a jew in the religious part.. I think that's what Lamont wanted to say.

A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.

It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship. See What Is Judaism?

This has been established since the earliest days of Judaism. In the Torah, you will see many references to "the strangers who dwell among you" or "righteous proselytes" or "righteous strangers." These are various classifications of non-Jews who lived among Jews, adopting some or all of the beliefs and practices of Judaism without going through the formal process of conversion and becoming Jews. Once a person has converted to Judaism, he is not referred to by any special term; he is as much a Jew as anyone born Jewish.

Although all Jewish movements agree on these general principles, there are occasional disputes as to whether a particular individual is a Jew. Most of these disputes fall into one of two categories.

First, traditional Judaism maintains that a person is a Jew if his mother is a Jew, regardless of who his father is. The liberal movements, on the other hand, consider a person to be Jewish if either of his parents was Jewish and the child was raised Jewish. Thus, if the child of a Jewish father and a Christian mother is raised Jewish, the child is a Jew according to the Reform movement, but not according to the Orthodox movement. On the other hand, if the child of a Christian father and a Jewish mother is not raised Jewish, the child is a Jew according to the Orthodox movement, but not according to the Reform movement! The matter becomes even more complicated, because the status of that children's children also comes into question.

Second, the more traditional movements do not always acknowledge the validity of conversions by the more liberal movements. The more modern movements do not always follow the procedures required by the more traditional movements, thereby invalidating the conversion. In addition, Orthodoxy does not accept the authority of Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist rabbis to perform conversions, and the Conservative movement has debated whether to accept the authority of Reform rabbis.

cannot add the link...

Funny how you where QUICK to address that last post of mine but didn't address the previous one that was aimed at you and aimed at the actual topic itself..hmmm??

In answer to your question...just who is the true messiah? if you are speaking of Jesus and a Jew actually believing in him.....then they have dropped part of their faith...but the heck cares if they do or not

Assuming Jesus is the true messiah, what part of their faith have they actually dropped, now you have mentioned it?

BM if you read back you will find that i did address the previous post.

Well all I know is they dont believe in Jesus you do the math...and why have you avioded my previous post that was directed at you and your topic?

No you havent and still havent...scroll back right back to before I quoted Lamont


EDIT..take your time..I have to get back to my home life too much to do...and not much time left to do it in..so for now nighty night

From your post you made no indication you wanted a reply. It just looks like a statement. What do you want me to say, or reply to?

I assume your posting to me. I haven't quite mastered the forums yet.

I put the statement in to simply show the viewpoint from Judiaism, that even if someone converts they are still considered a Jew. The religion and the culture are tied together like that.

OK Well my original query was for Lamont, but there has been to response as yet, so ill ask you again,
Supposing there is no dispute over a persons 'Jewishness' or 'Jewisity', and that Jew decides to follow the true Messiah, whom they and many other Jews believe to be Jesus, are they not still Jews.

Boils down to this;
Is a Jew any less a Jew for following the true Messiah?

How many of us are you going to ask this to LOL thats 3 of us so far

You want an answer...ok...IMO yes ...if he believed in Jesus and that Jesus actually lived here on earth (which case they dont believe he did come) then yes..it would make him less the Jew IMO

You answered already (something different) so i was not asking you again. I did not know there was a limit to the amount of people whom i could ask their opinion of.
And finally what you have answered the second time from what i can make out makes no sense to read at all!!

of course that begs the question as to whether the Gnostic gospels are reliable.

typical

Well my personal opinion would be that heritage wise you are still a Jew but religiously you would be a Christian. When I converted to Christianity my family still considered me a Jew by culture but they thought of me as Christian.

However the problem I have with it is that the Jewish culture cannot always be traced back to its roots. Therefore how do we know in many cases if that family was technically Jewish by culture?

Have you been to isaiah 53 thread? whats youre thoughts on it post them there please. ill look u up to see if youve been.

Yes but im correct. thats why all you can reply is Typical!!

No I disagree with you..and will always do so on this issue..you are not correct tags and you can bounce in and out yapping over it...I'll still say you are wrong Tell me something if a christian decided to stop believing in jesus ...would it make him/her less a christian??? IMO yes..after all to be a christian you must acccept christ...but you will argue with that too no doubt...you are predictable as always

This is the post to which you replied 'typical'.
There is no issue here merely a point i raised that you had already answered before and where complaining about me asking the same question to others.

So what you are saying is that you do think there should be a limit to the number of people i can ask opinion of?

You said my answer made no sense..(jews) .so I put it to you another way...if a christian stops believing in jesus would it make him less a christian? and We all know the answer is YES...as I said before but for your benefit I will say again.....to be a christian you must accept christs...but whats your thoughts?

So why would a jew believing in jesus make him any less jewish?
After all jesus is the fulfilment on jewish scripture, their messiah,- at least any jew who accepts Christ would think this, so were is the problem?

I think Jesus may have had a mental disorder.

You know something? There have been many a questions ask through out history. We seek to increase our knowledge on any given particular subject.

But I have got say that I now have such a larger picture of something I knew already existed.

What is that you may ask? I now truly understand that hell is a vast expanse.

Why? Because after searching this forum it is clearly evident that this world belongs to satan.

This is truly sad to see the masses of lost people who don't have a clue to the truth. Even those that speak a bit of something that sounds like truth, it is twisted.

Confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior and repent of your wicked ways. Be saved while there is still time to be saved.

Some will laugh, some will scoff, some will call this judgement, some will call this crap, some will call this pointless: But know that you now know and will be held accountable on the day of judgement. You can no longer say no one ever told you.

Jesus will return one day to take His people out of this wicked world before the day of wrath. Some say bring on the wrath, so shall you have it. When that day is upon you remember this post.

Wow....truly sadden...

No he was not


For 2,000 years, Jews have rejected the Christian idea of Jesus as messiah. Why?

It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus. The purpose is not to disparage other religions, but rather to clarify the Jewish position. The more data that's available, the better-informed choices people can make about their spiritual path.

JEWS DO NOT ACCEPT JESUS AS THE MESSIAH BECAUSE:
Intro: (What exactly is the Messiah?)
1) Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
2) Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
3) Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
4) Jewish belief is based on national revelation.
At the end of this article, we will examine these additional topics:
5) Christianity contradicts Jewish theology
6) Jews and Gentiles
7) Bringing the Messiah


Source

Seconded.

I will never worship a manufactured little god that judges people by rituals performed and lip service given. It would never be in my heart.
My God is a very big God who judges others more fairly than man judges one another. His judgement is based soley upon the goodness of the heart, of love for one another and all life.
He makes a Covenant of the Heart with all people. All good people who value life above rituals and laws made by man belong to him.

Does your god have a name? If so what is it?

Father.

The irony is that I thought it was sad the other way around. Beliefs can be dangerous. We all know this.
So much of the Bible is poetic, so we have to be careful about what we take literally (if anyone is considering this).

Are you referring to God the Father, the one that created the heavens and earth and all things in it? The one that holds life and death in the palm of His hand.

Or are you referring to some other father?

Actually, the earliest disciples and believers in Yeshua were almost ALL Jews, raised tio believe in the oneness of God, and the coming Messiah to nation of Isreal.... So the earliest conversts still went to Temple worship, and many, as shown in Acts and james and pauline Epislts, were still foolowing to a large extent Jewish customs and practices, so they were not still Jews?

Paul makes it quite clear, that we as Gentiles who believe in Yeshua were all grafted into the main roots that are Spiritual isreal, as Isaiah pointed out that God will always spare a righteous remnant of jewish believers out of national Isreal, and Paul thus concludes to us that not ALL of national Isreal, Jews, were also Spiritual isreal, only those who placed faith in Yeshua as the messiah of God...

Jesus also made it very clear, that his main mission was to the lost sheep of Isreal, Jews, who would believe on him as the messiah, would be brought together with the Gentiles sheep, and that both Jews and Gentile would be one flock under Him as the Great Sheperd...

So there is NO Biblical support to the notion that Jewish believers in Jeshua cease being Jews, just as Gentiles who believe in Him somehow become jewish, no, God has two seperate peoples, both jewish and gentile, and one stays what they were once coming to Yeshua...

Many Jewish believers call themselves as "fulfilled" jews, as they are made complete in Yeshua, just as Gentiles are in Him...

You stay a Jew even when believe in yeshua, as you have the rich traditions and History of the jewish peoples, and you can still celebrate any or none of your customs and practices, just as you see fit...

So let us not say Jewish people cease to be jewish, as Yeshua completes/fulfills/makes reality the shadow that was shown to them in the OT...

i could replace all the mentions to "god" and "jesus" and another temrs, and use it against the belivers....but it wuolnt be civil. Also, i am to brash to correctly answer this post. we need diplomats like Mako to answers this kinds of post.

Yes.

I could say that it would be typical for you to do that.

I know!!
There are so many religions...its so confusing

Has is tipical for fundies to said what you said.....REPENT!!!! THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTERIS NOT PLEASED T SEE THAT HUMANITY IS USING THEIR BRAINS ISNTEAD OF FOLLOWING A FAIRY TALE BOOK HAS ZOMBIES!!!!!! HAS THEY DONT ACCEPT THE LOVE OF THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER; AND DONT SURRENDER THEIR BRAINS; THEY WILL SUFFER AN ETERNITY IN THE HELLISH CHAMBERS OF THE BUROCRATIC HELL!!!! THEY WILL SUFFER ETERNAL LINES TO GET FILL SUBFORM XB-64 AND FORM 35-LD BIS FOR ETERNITY!!!!!! THEY WILL SUFFER FOR NOT FOLLOWING THE ITALIAN RESTO GUY, THE SON OF THEFLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER HOW CAME TO THEIR HOMES TO COLECT HIS TIP AND DIE FOR HTEIR SINS FOR NOT ASKING FOR PEPERONI!!!!!! MUAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA........

Umm Calm down

Not really if you study them carefully enough. Unless you mean that it is confusing as to which is the truth. Personally, I don't think that there is just one path to God, and some religions can hold a sliver of wisdom and truth, etc. People should do what works for them. To me the problems are the fundamentalists and fanatics that misinterpet the text or use it as a tool for hate.

MAybe there are alot of ways to make god happy

dont worry Trix, i was joking, taking an example of the fundies that regulary pop ups in this forum, and how they react . What i wrote is basicaly what fouding stone worte, but whiout the "i am holier than you" actitude and using the church of the fliying spaghetti moster for example.

And for all the x-tian fundies. What gives more credit to cristianity has the "one true religion" than the church of the holy spaghetti moster. In fact, i follow the sacred book of the FSM, that is older than the cristian bible......and also a lot of profecies made by the prophets of the FSM have come true, and the born of his son, the Italian resto guy.

I liked the "burocratic" part.

Why? Is God unhappy? If he is all knowing he shouldn't be concerned.

I am glad you were able to get that out of your system just remember to spray.

I am not making a claim that I am holier than thou, that is just your typical response because you have made it that way.

ok