Lizzie Borden took an ax
And gave her mother forty whacks,
When she saw what she had done
She gave her father forty-one.

---

Clickie


---

Do you think she did it?

Personally, I think she did it.

Ah an Axe
That brings me back *que scary music*

Great site. I must say that I am enjoying this new section

Hahaa, the new UM is sexy.


I dunno if she did it or not.....she certainly professed her innocence.

I remember seeing a tour of the Borden house on the discovery channel, aparently the house is haunted and yes i believe she did it

I read a good story written by a detective buff who thought her sister did it and not Lizzie.
Lizzie was a little slow and made a good scapegoat in that version, which also showed that the sister could not really prove where she was during the crime and that she made out like a bandit on the outcome.
It was a good read.

I agree, both on the fact that the new um is sexy as heck, and on the widely accepted theory that borden had indeed killed her parents

I think she did it. Most criminoligists would agree that the only time you give someone "40 wacks" is if you have a relationship with that person. Most of the time you will not see a radom killing with that many blows.

Plus if the axe was rather blunt, you have a child using it, it might take a good number of strikes to kill a person with it.

Personally . . I think she did it.

i haven't really studied this case much myself... which is strange, because i'm a huge fan of criminology and forensics, etc. i want to work in criminal justice when i get older (probably as a crime scene investigator or criminal profiler/psychologist.) anyhow, judging by that link, she certainly does seem to have done it... but it doesn't mention the sister there. where was she? what did she say upon police questioning?

and how old was lizzie borden? it doesn't say on the page... but if the picture at the top righthand side is her, she couldn't have been too young. she looks at least 16 or so.

regardless, the one part that baffled me was this:


honestly, no matter how intelligent or educated you are, that is entirely impossible...

EDIT: just looked at the crime scene and autopsy photos (warning: not extremely graphic, but still not for the squeamish...) and am fairly certain that no one would have done something to that extent unless they harbored great hatred towards the victims. perhaps there was more going on during that time period than is now known, but if lizzie borden did indeed commit the murders, she had to have been battling large amounts of hostility and possible mental disorders. i can hardly believe that a child would do that to their parents unless the parents had done something horrible...
i'm thinking there may be a possibility of abuse of some kind, as well as the issue of the inheritance. i can't see inheritance as being the only reason for that sort of murder.

She did it. The Simpsons never lie.

Actually she gave her step mother 20 whacks and her father 10. So wrong, but I guess they had to make it rhyme did'nt they?

Do you have a link to that site with the photos, rose_ashes?

Guilty as home made sin. She would have went to prison for it if she hadn't lived in preforensic technology America (AKA The Stone Age). They aquited her because she was a female and they assumed females were dainty flowers who couldn't possibly kill people.

well of course they did....

wouldnt be fun if they didnt...........neener

No, I don't believe she did do it. I actually believe it was the William Borden, the retarded, supposedly illegitimate son of Andrew Borden.

Because of his illegitimate status, and a possible claim he might have to his natural father's estate, Lizzie, Emma, Uncle John, Dr. Bowen, and Mr. Jennings conspired to keep his crime hidden. Browns peculates that William was making demands of his father, who was in the process of making his will, and that these demands were rejected by Andrew. William, full of rage, killed Mrs. Borden first, hid in the house with Lizzie's knowledge, and then killed his father. The conspirators then either paid William off or threatened him, or both, and decided that Lizzie would allow herself to be suspected and tried for the murders, knowing that she could always identify the real killer, should that be necessary.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murd...theories_6.html

IIRC, although he lived on the outskirts of town, wasn't William seen close by the Borden house that same afternoon?

Any one remember the finding of a about a hundred years after the murders the letters found in a old sink in the basement of the doctors home?


Also:
"The investigation lasted quite a few days and unearthed some very interesting facts. The list of suspects included John Morse, the visiting uncle of the Borden children; Lizzie and her sister Emma; a mysterious and unnamed lover of Lizzie's; and William Borden, Andrew's cousin, who was rumored to be in fact Andrews's own illegitimate son. In the end, it was Lizzie Borden who was arrested and charged on three counts of murder: the murder of each of her parents and for the murder of them both."
http://www.askmen.com/toys/special_feature...al_feature.html



A recent theory by Arnold Brown gives strange legitimacy to the dark stranger scenario. According to Brown in Lizzie Borden: The Final Chapter, "Andrew Borden had not fathered 'only two' children. In addition to a third daughter who was dead, he had, by a woman named Phebe Hathaway, fathered an illegitimate son whose existence was whispered on The Hill and was more than common knowledge within the Borden clan (Brown, 116)." Brown says this William Borden, a demented apple farmer, called upon Andrew Borden one day to claim his birthright and ended up committing the crime for which his half-sister Lizzie was blamed. Brown's admirable research proves the existence of one William Borden and establishes his violent character, as well as arguing persuasively of William's illegitimate birth. But the only evidence linking William Borden to Andrew Borden is the opinion of Arnold Brown's next-door neighbor in Florida whose dead father-in-law knew William as a child and suspected him of the crime.
http://www.curiouschapbooks.com/Catalog_of.../body_lb-8.html



In about three minutes after testimony concluded, Foreman Krohn announced that the jury had reached its conclusion and the fate of Lizzie Borden and her half-brother was sealed.
http://www.eastbayri.com/print/309200298659956.php



There is the intriguing possibility of the existence of William Borden, Andrew's illegitimate son, who was known to be an expert with an axe and fit the description of a pale-faced man seen around the Borden house the day of the murders.
http://www.rgitv.com/LizzieBorden.htm

Sly

^ if you need to add somthing use the edit button


also i think Lizzie did it to






alien

I do not think Lizzie did it.

And I posted the reasons why in separate boxes for reason of, if someone might had a particular theory or thought to each individual reason.

Sly

Please stay on topic, i've removed the last couple of posts as they have nothing to do with the topic.
aliennobasoure, it is not up to you to tell other members how to post properly. However, Sly i have merged five of your posts together that were all posted one after another. This is multiposting and it's not necessary, if you have more to add to your post after you have posted it, please use the edit button to add more to your first post. Otherwise the topic gets cluttered.
Thank you.

Sly,

You could have differentiated them by numbering or lettering each individual scenario within the same post, which would have been the easiest, most convienient way of handling the various options. We tend to frown on multiple, consecutive posts, as they really aren't necessary. Not a real big deal, just keep it in mind for next time.

MM

* Which you can still do now that Burnsy has consolodated them all within a single post

does anyone know exactly how old lizzie was when this happened? forgive me if i've overlooked it in one of these posts or on that website, but i've been given multiple impressions as to what age she was.

If I remeber it correctly I think she was in her early 20's. I have to check on it for you.

EDIT: I just looked it up. She was 32 at the time of the murders.

I think it is possible that she did it. But i don't know all the details. So i guess it's also possible that she didn't do it.

The maid could have just as easly done it. No proof that either one did it though.

Lizzie Borden was 32 at the time.
Despite the whole "illegitimate son" claim, i believe she did it, or if not, it aws her sister and theywere both in it together.
Her father was changing his will to leave more to his new wife, Abby. I believe that this angered the girls and that the murders were there solution.
THere's also a claim that lizzie suffered Temporal lobe Epilespy and commited the crimes whilst in a "brown out".

I like this section of the forums I'm a true crime nut! I've turned it into a career..

i have been interested in this story for years and have read everything i could get my hands on about it.my own personal opinion is that lizzie's sister planned the murders and killed her parents.lizzle was a pawn to draw attention away from her sister.thanks.

yep i think she did

I never really believed Lizzie did it.

I liked the band tho.

i think lizzie killed her stepmum first then her father secondly. i think lizzie was scared of losing her inheritance to her stepmum so she killed her and thinking her father would be broken hearted at the death of his wife went and killed him after. i think lizzie told her housemaid what she was intending to do and paid her a large amount of money to keep her mouth closed and go along with whatever lizzie told the police. the housemaid returned to ireland her homeland after the murders and lizzie went on to live her life happy knowing she got her inheritance money after all.

Hehe I lived just blocks away from the Borden home. yes I believe she did it Yes its true that she Acquitted of the muders however I think theres enough circumstantial evidence that she did it. a local pharmacist and another person claimed that Lizzie attempted to purchase a poison, prussic acid from him a day before the murder. Lizzie offcourse denied this.her friend, Alice Russell, who testified that Lizzie burned a stained dress three days after the murders. But the most damning evidence came at the trial, when medical experts appeared to prove that Abby Borden was killed approximately an hour and a half before her husband making it look like the Killer was more likely to have been a member of the household than an outsider.When Bridget Sullivan came back inside after having finished washing outside windows, around 10:30 A.M., she reported hearing a muffled laugh coming from upstairs. She thought that it was Lizzie making the noise. (Lizzie, of course, denied being upstairs during this time period between her mother's murder and her father's murder.) most people in Fall River think she did it, why. because she didn't like her step mother at all and her father probably would have told police if he was alive the tension between them and I think money played a role too.

There is only Bridget's word that she heard Lizzie laughing upstairs. Bridget herself may have lied. After all, she was seen leaving the house after the bodies were discovered carrying bundles of something and wasn't searched. She could have been getting rid of her bloody clothes and the murder weapon which was never found.

I incline towards feeling Lizzie and her sister conspired to do it... because of the inheritance

LMAO well if the Simpsons say it..then she must have done it!!! Case Closed LOL

True, but it seems like Bridget's testomony was much more consistant then Lizzies. and what about the prussic acid did the pharmacist make that up too?

In what way was Bridget's testimony more consistent than Lizzie's? What part of Lizzie's story did she change?

As far as the pharmacist and the prussic acid, the pharmacist stated that a woman came into the shop asking for prussic acid. He was unable to identify her from her appearance; instead, he was taken to the Borden house and stood outside the room, listened to her voice and said that was the voice of the woman that had come to the shop to buy prussic acid.

I don't put much faith in a voice identification from a man who had never before heard the voice of the woman buying the prussic acid. I won't say he made it up. Maybe he believed what he was saying but it's very flimsy evidence.

I'll try to find some links to show you. many of this information was from the many visites to the Fall River Historical Society, it was close to my middle school and we had many trips there.

I thought there were other witnesses had identified Lizzie Borden as having visited Smith's drug

I heard that she gave her step mother 18 "whacks" and her father 11. I also heard that she had a lesbian affair with actress Nance O'Neil from 1904 to 1906.
After Nance broke the relationship off with Lizzie, it is said that she had great emotional problems. I think that she had emotional problems to begin with, and I think there's a great possibility that she did do it. (And besides, Elizabeth Montgomery played a pretty convincing Lizzie Borden)

There were two other people that identified her. One was a clerk in the store who said he'd never seen Lizzie before and identified her as the woman that came in to buy prussic acid after she was pointed out to him at the inquest. The other was a customer in the store who also identified her at the inquest. However, the pharmacist who had identified her by her voice stated her voice was "tremulous" and the customer stated it was "quite loud".

The woman that entered the drug store was carrying a fur garment over her arm. The police were unable to find one person who saw Lizzie walking down the street with a fur. That would have been very noticable on such a hot day.

I think she done it but the step mother was evil and lizzie had a reson for it

Lizzie died on June 1, 1927, at age 67, after a long illness from complications following gall bladder surgery. Emma died nine days later, as a result of a fall down the back stairs of her house in Newmarket . They were buried together in the family plot, along with a sister who had died in early childhood, their mother, their stepmother, and their headless father


two stanzas of a poem written by A.L. Bixby, published during the trial:

There's no evidence of guilt,
Lizzie Borden,
That should make your spirit wilt,
Lizzie Borden;
Many do not think that you
Chopped your father's head in two,
It's so hard a thing to do,
Lizzie Borden.
You have borne up under all,
Lizzie Borden.
With a mighty show of gall,
Lizzie Borden;
But because your nerve is stout
Does not prove beyond a doubt
That you knocked the old folks out,
Lizzie Borden


go

Thanks for the poem and the link Owlscrying. Very interesting.

Lizzie became a fairly open lesbian after the murders. I always believed she murdered her parents because they constricted her ability to live a full life. I also wondered if her father sexually abused her.

She has, I lived in Fall River, MA for 30 years and I really don't think she was, yes I've heard that rumor but nithing to back it up. I also have heard the claim that her father sexually abused her but I still don't beieve it. her Father was very nice to her, she hated her step mother and thats why I think she hated her father.

I heard Lizzie's stepmother had a young half sister she favored. I do think Lizzie hated her step mother. I think she was afraid her father would leave everything to her stepmother if he died and in turn the stepmother would leave the estate to her sister.

Does anyone know why Lizzie's sister suddenly moved out of the house she shared with Lizzie years after the murder? She never spoke to Lizzie again yet supported her throughout the murder trial.

I watched a special about the case on A and E. Her father molested her often and she eventually snapped one day and wacked her mother as well because she knew and was letting it happen. Maybe this happened. She wasn't charged in the case mainly because she could afford a dream team of lawyers . Otherwise she probably would have went to jail.

I also think the fact that she was a very feminine Sunday school teacher helped. It would be hard for a jury of 19th century men to hang that kind of woman.

Lizzie was charged with the murders. She was in jail throughout the trial and was found not guilty. There is no proof that she was molested by her father. The reason she went free was because the evidence wasn't there.

later in her life she went on too do some community service, and opened up some charity house.. i forgot the details thjough.

Hi so do I think lizzie did it not sure ha ha ha.I read a book a couple yrs back forget what it was called but apparently lizzie's father hired a handyman type person 2weeks before the inccident occured apparently her father refused to pay him & came back for revenge.



I heard that ryme went this way.

lizzie bordan took an axe she gave her mother forty wacks,
then she saw she was'nt done so she gave her father fortyone, lol kind'a dumb I suppose