Michelle,

I feel the same way about keeping the serious offenders in prison paid for by my taxes. However this is an issue where the prison system should be reformed, not an issue with the death penalty.

My choice would be a return to prison labour. I know it happens in some places and is still not immune from people in authority abusing the system but often criminals see prison as a soft option as they are not required to pay society back in any way for their crimes.

If prisoners want to study and improve themselves while incarcerated then that's good but the labour they have to perform as their penance should have priority.

Oh, don't even try and sell us that tripe.

Lots of people have to endure hardship in their lives, and a lot of people spend every single day wondering how they're going to meet ends meet...but not all of them turn to crime to support themselves. The bleeding heart 'oh, criminals are a victim of their environment' garbage has been making me feel sick for years.

Turning to crime is a career choice, and that's that. Yes, life sometimes deals people a shoddy hand, but they're the ones that decide to try and cheat to win. Don't even try and sell us any crap about criminals being hard done to...we're not talking about shoplifters here, we're talking about scumbags - the murderers, the rapists, the child molesters...the scum who we want to see getting the death penalty.

If you're honestly going to try and give us the 'life dealt them a poor hand! It's not their fault they murdered someone!' speil, then just...guh, don't even type. Just shoo, shoo

^^I agree completely.

And most of these kinds of people would've grown up in familes which either beat them as kids.. or molested them... or whatever else. Why do you think they are the way they are. And crime is not a career choice... how can you say 'and thats that'. What about the smack addict that steals because hes sick and literally has very little choice(and dont try tell me otherwise unless you've been there).. he is not stealing as a career choice is he.. he is stealing because he has run out of his own money and everything else he owns and so then moves onto last resorts to feed a habit. This then leads onto crime to support habits, not crime as a career choice. People turn to drugs which can send them to crime.. so its not as simple as you make it seem. To some crime may be a career but to others its just so they can get by day to day.

lol.. I guess my 'shame on you' go to you most huh.

I've met a few murderers that I would consider innocent because I could see that they did not mean to actually kill someone. One guy had just turned 18, I was in the van with him after he had just been charged and he was about to go into where I had been staying for the past few months. He was scared to death. Anyway I talked to him and he told me how he had tried to hold up a shop with a friend(who was 15 i think).. he had gotten a large handgun from the friends dads house.. Anyway they went in and he pointed the gun and asked for the money(he was junkie too btw).. and the guy was unlucky enough to have an off duty police officer who was getting served at the time. Now this officer and the shop keeper laughed at him and he kinda freaked out and got all scared because the cop showed his badge. He told me that he went to turn to run he accidentally pulled the trigger and shot the shopkeeper in the head. He got caught of course as he was trying to escape on his pushbike and is still serving his sentence for murder.

So yeah... I will tell you that its not there fault for murdering because sometimes its just not, even though others may claim it is. But only those that dont actually know anything.

where is hung drawn and quartered in option ?

lethal injection really has to be the choice , although that is too easy a death for some criminals .

That would be under 'other', Rahl.

My ideal would be that you have done to you what you did to the person you killed.
Perhaps that might cause people to think twice before they kill someone.
Maybe not, though.

Life is no game dont even go there. Life is what you make it there is no dealer if you have had a bad life CHANGE IT! We have givin MANY CHANCES to many heartless people and thats a FACT. I'm tired of hearing peoples sad storys on how bad there childhood was and thats why they do these horrible things You should want BETTER for your SELF thats no excuse.

You're still talking rubbish. The number of murderers or career criminals who can trace their roots back to an abusive childhood is minute. There have been some, true...and they're the ones that the bleeding hearts love to focus on; that's right, blame the guy's parents for the fact he turned out to be a violent sociopath. It is, however, a straw man arguement...the vast majority of criminals have no such background.



And did someone strap him to a table and force feed him smack to get him addicted? He made the choice to start taking it himself, and he should be responsible for that choice...he should also be responsible for the crimes he commits to feed that habit. I hope you're not trying to make me feel sympathy for drug addicts. I hold them in contempt.



Again, absolute garbage.The hypothetical addict you describe didn't have to get himself addicted. He didn't have to turn to crime to feed his habit instead of getting help. He didn't have to steal from and harm other people so he could get his fix.



I don't care who it's going to, it's still nonsensical statement



Nah, I'd definately charge him with murder, and send him to the chair. Any killing commited in the act of a crime should be treated as first degree murder. What? Am I supposed to feel sympathy for this little scumbot? Who killed a man in the process of trying to make off with his livelyhood?

You've got a really twisted sense of morality and justice you know.

OH and by the way the one guy who tortured my sister came from a good family he said that this was some thing he wanted to do he just never wanted to do it by himself until he made friends with the other monster who helped him mutilate my sister and her friend LET ME TELL YOU I went to the trial with my mother (my sister and me) my father could not go he had a nervous break down I watched the one guy laugh time after time until the judge made them take him away keep in mind they were both sane and not on drugs when the commited this horrible act they were both seen by psychiatrists. The family of the one guy who had a good home I did feel bad for them we had found out that they moved away and had changed their name they were so ashamed.

The vikings used to execute people by way of what they called the 'blood eagle' , by this they meant they broke the rib cage in your back and pulled your lungs out so you had 'wings', then you were left to die like that, tied to a tree . that is a nasty death (

I dont think I could get someone like you to feel sympathy for anyone to be honest.

Life is what makes some turn to drugs. Like I did because of depression... so no I was not forced but with the hand I was dealt I was alot more tempted to try them out to forget certain things I'd seen. And sometimes you only have to try things once or twice before they become a problem.


omg... Yeah send a just turned 18 yr to the chair because he got a dumb idea from his mate who's dad had a gun. Well done. That'll teach him hey! I bet that kid will learn his lesson while he is frying. And you think I have a twisted sense of justice. Your lack of general compassion makes me feel sick hey. But dont give up! You might learn some one day..

But some people know no better or how to do better because they are not in that positive learning environment. They know only what they have been taught which might not be very much and only negative.

So let me get this straight...you've been a drug addict...you've killed someone...and you're lecturing me about morality? O.o

Young man (I assume your young) Its time for you to stop making up excuses you have takin a persons life you are out (again I assume you did time) now you have to make your life right and teach other's not to do the things you have done you should have seeked help seen a doctor before this happened you knew you were depressed and doing drugs why not get help then I am still friends with alot of people who used drugs and they have told me you know what your doing its just that first move to say HELP. Do not dislike all of us who feel that the death sentenance is right if you weree the victim I some how think you would think differently. Also that young man took a gun in the store WITH the INTENT my verdict GUILTY.

Take responsibility for your own actions and if you get caught, you deserve to be punished. That's the bottom line.

I think I'll just make a quick reply before bed...



You don't even know me, so kindly don't try and imply what I do or do not feel

I feel sympathy and compassion for the victims...the innocent people who are harmed by crime, I do not feel sympathy for the scum that make them suffer. Why should I? I've been a victim of crime, I have friends who've been a victim of crime...apparantly, you have friends who are criminals, so I can understand why your opinion might be a little off balance, but allow me to put in in simple terms.

Criminals are scum.

As someone who has suffered because of them...and because of bleeding hearts like you wanting to give them the run of assylum, I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. I believe in protecting society, and innocent people, from those who want to harm them...if that entails executing scumbags, then I don't see any reason why I should shed any tears over it.

I think of the rights of the victim, and the right of members of the public to live in safety, first. The 'rights' of the criminal are a very, very distant priority in my mind.



Lots of people get depressed, and not all of them turn to drugs. Some of them...*shock!*...go and get help. Starting to take drugs is a choice you made, and don't even try and blame anyone but yourself.



No...send him to the chair because he shot someone in the head. Hell, the way you're talking about it you'd think the worst they did was break the guy's window or something...an innocent man was murdered, for no reason, by some scumbot trying to steal his money. I think that little cretin would deserve to be executed for that.

Although i'm all for the death penalty no two ways about it. I think we have to draw the line on cases were the crime is a ''one off'' or be it ''manslaughter'', otherwise we are no better the culprits, UNLESS it was ''premeditated'' and or ''multiple'' for stupid and for no reason, then yea go ahead send them to their maker.
If we start to sway from that then as time goes on we may as well start exercuteing people for petty theft as it was up untill the late 1800s.

The one off murder cases whatever the circimstance, the culprit may have been an exemplary citizen all his life and then BANG!...he kill's someone by accident or he kills his wife's lover or worse his child's molesterer and or killer, what do we do give him the electric reclider...NO.(see the paradox here)
So each case must be taken on it's merits and i'm not saying he should go unpunnished, time in prison with counciling and rehabilitation we help them get their life back on track.
If you kill another human being trying to ransack his home and the owners come home and catch you red handed, in turn you shoot them both dead...then yea death by whatever means.

But that's the point I was attempting to make. If we start demanding execution for "all child molesters" we'd better lay down some really hard and fast rules as to what is and is not covered.

I was as angry as blazes at these "respectable" bums, but I can't honestly say that they destroyed my life or even came close.



I have no problem with that. But good ideas of this sort are never followed through. In my city we started, with much fanfare, publishing once a month the names and addresses of all citizens arrested for attempting to solict prostitutes. That lasted two whole months.

I don't know about the death penalty here, but I DO know that by the time I was SIX I knew that murder was the "ultimate theft," and that there were severe punishments for it.

You want to tell me about 18 again?

I can only go from what I've read hey. So I'm sorry if that has given me that impression. But it was meant to be read like... I dont think I could get someone like you to feel sympathy.. it didnt mean I thought someone else cant.. So dont take offence. lol

To clear something up for you... I dont have criminals as friends.. to be honest I dont have any friends what so ever from my own choice of not wanting people around me.. So my opinions on criminals are based from those I've met along time ago... over 10 years ago. And my opinions come from the fact that I witnessed how the media treated that kid who shot the shopkeeper like he was the devil who meant to do it.. I literally couldnt believe how badly the media put their claws in trying to get more justice for the victim.. Because imo in the end both are victims.

But your just assuming one hasnt already spent alot of time getting help.. Not everything can be cured with anti depressents or counseling.

Two older men who goaded a young(junkie)first offender who was holding a hand gun is not really innocent imo. They were as foolish as the offender.

And OldTimeRadio...
You may need to read what I typed again. Yes we know that murder is wrong but sometimes accidents happen. Even with guns.

OTR, as i simpathise very much with what you would have gone through.

BUT when it comes to pedohilia and child molestation and rape, i have no pity or mercy left in my heart and soul for these lowest form of evil slime, although i admit there are some far worse than others, but that dos'nt change the outlook on how i feel about them. I have two young sons of my own, and i a concerned parent who believe's that prevention is far better than the cure...PERIOD!
Where i''m from i know of cases and of people dear to me who have had their lives changed forever, details in which i choose not to reveil on a public forum, but only to say that they will make any parent become sickend and enraged.
These kind of predators are without doubt in my mind beyond help and rehabilitation i know it and they know it.
Yes i agree some victims may come out of it relatavtily unscathed but there are a lot of cases were the victims(CHILDREN as young as seven- thirteen)were brutalised and forced to do unspeakable acts.
Once these slimmy scum have damaged them phsyically they begin to work on them mentally and emotionally, and from the stories i heard FIRST HAND of what they were put through emotionally to ensure that the 'slime's of humanity' covers their tracks well, it would humble yet enrage any parent.

The sadest case i have heard again without going into detail is were the daughter was being molestered and raped by her father from the age 9, who incidentaly runs a relativtly large welding buisness in the area. The story was told to me by her fianciee who i used to work with on and off with for several months, up until he told me the pig was still getting her to do filth to him, remembering this is still happening while they were engaged to be married. He had asked me quite a few times in those months working together, what do you think i should do.
The only advice i could give him at the time was to tell his fianciee to go to the police asap.
The pig is the victims father.....pretty tough call.


Rebel.

You cant have this 'one off' thing for murder , hoping they wont do it again, next thing you know they will be asking for this 3 strikes thing, then they'll be looking around for victim #2 knowing its a free kill. No fry them good for the first offence, that'll teach them never to do it again. I cant see why there is a problem really with this issue , they are scum as somebody already pointed out, and good riddance to them i say.

I agree, so let me clarify ''one off'', again....

Firstly there's manslaughter- accidental or self defence.

Secondly there's the case 'for example', all your life you worked to provide for your family being a pretty good Joe etc etc, and you find out that a serial killer or pedophile has just killed and or raped your daughter or son. You catch him and in a momentary fit of rage decide to shoot him or beat him to a pulp till he's lifeless. Your caught or give yourself up to police off to prison you go....then what.

Give him the electiric chair right?
Or do you evaluate the case and judge it on it's merits and 'just' give him a lengthy prison term for his crime with good behaviour.

If thats not an issue...well then...bring in the death penalty and criminals and prisoners will start dropping like flys i guess.

And pray not too many fall through the cracks in the system from people who basically dont end up doing their jobs properly or are corrupt.. They are human after all.

hmm

Well, I don't really consider that murder. I wouldn't actually have much of a problem with controlled vigilantes. The person killed was not an innocent, common or garden member of society, minding his own business - the person in question hasn't done any harm to society, and is therefore not a danger to it. I don't consider criminals in the same light as I do human beings, so I don't really define the killing of criminals as murder.

I'm not sure I'd even send him to prison...maybe give him psychiatric monitoring to make sure he hasn't gone completely off the deep end, but aside from that...*shrugs*

Not sure it this has been previously stated, i do not agree with the DP apart from in certain cases and didn't wish to read through it, but i believe lethal injection uses potassium to stop the heart. if i remember rightly, it is meant to burn after injected and is therefore considered by some inhumane.

Lethal Injection for me and make it a public viewing!!

Inhumane what about what they have done to their victims?

ill say firing squad .
but it depends on the crime, i think the family of the victim should be able to do whatever they like to em really.
and if the family are too decent then i personally should be given the awful task.
i know its a dirty job but someones gotta kill the vermin on this earth.

Being witness to a horrible, horrible crime when I was 16 I have my own opinions on the death penalty. After watching what a monster put my boyfriend & his family through...well, you can imagine what I think about the death penalty. I'll leave it at that. But "CallMeFox" summed it up:

If it doesn't cause people to think twice. It may stop some of the torturing & suffering. If it's found your victim took hours to die, so will you!!!

And to Kazahel who said:


BS!! BS!! BS!! If I were to follow your logic, I should be on death row. I was beaten by my parents, sexually abused by a sibling & "sold" by my brother to his male friends when I was 14 yrs. old. I certainly had a crappier life then some who've mudered...Scott Peterson & Menendez bros. comes to mind! But I have never harmed another human being or animal! Go figure that out!

Oh, if you really want to see a story that blows your therory all to hell read some of the Dave Pelzer books. He was the Child called "It". What was done to him when he was a little boy will scare the hell out of you, but he hasn't killed anyone either. Everybody has crap in their life, why should some get special treatment just cause they harm, torture, or kill another person. THEY DO NOT!

The death penalty...I don't know if I'm for it or against it.

Does one person ever have the right to kill another person? I think not.

But with overpopulated prisons and rehabilitation never actually working...what else are we too do?

Exile? But to where?

Well in away its almost special treatment when you do kill those that murder. You dont kill anyone else except the guilty.. because they are 'special'. So you give them special treatment with legal murder. So yes I do wonder why some get 'special treatment' just because they harm,torture or kill another.

Anyway I dont want to post much more in here.. I've said lots already. I'm sorry you disagreed.

I used to work for the Dept. of Corrections and know that keeping a convicted felon alive for the rest of his/her life behind bars cost less than executing them. The main reason is we, the people, get to pay for all of their legal expenses thru their appeals process. This is very expensive.

The views of this thread are almost all pagan-based. The Bible clearly tells us in the sixth commandment that we shall not murder. There are no footnotes or exceptions to this.

Thou shalt not MURDER. If you read the Bible (take a look at the OT), you'll see that God has killed people for disobeying his law. A just killing is not the same thing as murder.

You have me extremely confused. You seem to be saying that the guilty and the innocent, those who "harm, torture or kill" and those who do not, should be treated exactly the same. What am I missing here? I can't make it compute.

In a gas chamber with windows, so their last moments on Earth would be humiliating. That, and it would be interesting to watch.

But I don't believe in Death Penalties. Especially if innocent people are convicted.

They should be loved the same still (forgiven), which is why you wouldnt kill them.. Like if we are supposed to love our neighbors then what do we do in their time of need, when they maybe have a domestic(or whatever)which ends up in a murder?

I can surely empathize with that. But nobody argues that John Wayne "Pogo the Clown" Gacy (34 victims) and Ted Bundy (up to 200 victims) were innocent, and their executions surely and effectively prevented any additional murders by them.

And what do we do with "lifers" who kill in prison? Give them "life"? But didn't we already do that?

Of course we need to forgive murderers.

That's why we supply the inmates on Death Row with religious and spiritual advisors and counsellors.

Many Death Row inmates make very sincere and saintly religious conversions before they die, and their sins are forgiven

But they're NOT executed because of their sins, which God and Man forgive, and in which the State has no legitimate interest.

They're executed because of their CRIMES, which occurred before we forgave them.

Is the way in which they are treated now teaching forgiveness?

How kind.

So throw the switch still?


If they are being executed for their crimes then that means man hasnt forgiven them... not to me anyway. You dont wish murder upon those you forgive.

Also around the world people seem to be able to be put to death for different crimes.. put to death so easily.. which is another reason why I think its wrong as a form of punishment.

I think a de-atomizer or some device that immediately breaks the molecules in the body apart.

Anyone who's against the death penalty should get..... the death penalty. Lol, just kidding. But I'm STRONGLY FOR the death penalty.


Right.. like you'd love a person who just murdered your family in front of your eyes in a horrible way while they laughed the entire time and spit the blood into your face?



Uhh... that's what rules and guidelines are for. To make sure there are EXEPTIONS. IE: You can't get killed just for stealing.

Here, here !
of course they would have to be completely guilty

Some things would take time to learn, which is how I look at time almost. So you might not forgive things straight away but I think the quicker one does the better for all.


I'm sure I've posted enough already on why I disagree with death as a form of punishment. And I dont believe you can always trust the system or the people who run it.. and when it comes to someones life, I think its wrong.

Not any longer at any rate and not in the Western Democracies. But in England as recently as the early 19th Century a starving eight-year-old boy was hung for stealing a loaf of bread. Pickpockets were also executed.

And people were executed for rape in the United States down to the 1960s.

Treason remains an executable offense in most Western Democracies, as perhaps it should, because treasonous acts almost always result in human deaths.

I think you have confused FORGIVENESS with CONSEQUENCES! There is a really big difference! You can forgive someone for what they may have done, but that does NOT mean that there isn't consequences. You break the law, there is usually some sort of consequence...unless you are from Hollyweird it seems. If I drink & drive, being charged with DWI...EVEN if I don't harm anyone...I may have to deal with:
Increased insurance costs
Hefty fines
Driving disqualification
Alcohol assessment and treatment

Even if I'm not guilty, I still have the headaches of getting the whole thing straightened out. That in itself is a consequence for my getting behind the wheel when I may be inpaired.

I tell you what though. You have your opinions. I have mine. Everyone else has their's. There has always been a form of death penalty, even if it was just banishment. Cause without others a person alone in the wild would die. And I believe there always be a death penalty of sorts, cause societies have their limits on "forgiveness" as you call it. And so they should, otherwise the criminals are in control...NO THANKS!

Well all I want to say is that I'm glad I dont live in a country that supports it.

I never said that I support the death penalty. I merely said that we NEED it.

I would much rather see life without the possibility of parole. But that's precisely what we're not allowed to have! Eventually they get released again. Does anyone doubt that Ted Bundy (up to 200 victims) wouldn't have been as dangerous at 55 as he was at 25?

The fact is that the death penalty saved Bundy's future victims!

A year or two back I read a press account of a British man, 20 years old, who had been given a life sentence for killing and partially devouring a neighbor.

The article added that since he'd been given a LIFE sentence he could not be paroled....until age 38!

Bur what if he comes out of prison, still quite a young man, as hungry as he went in?