Not true, I have met people who have attempted suicide merely to see what is on the other side or to further their knowledge in a sort of spirit form.

Anyways,

hell seems (to me) more like a blanket term to describe those who choose the path of Lucifer. Hell being the state of mind one would be in by turning from god and accepting Lucifer. The bible seems to use personifications and objectifications to describe certain revelations in order for the viewer to understand it correctly (i.e. The great whore of Babylon). Maybe the same hold true for hell.


~ADHD~

That doesn't mean what I said is NOT TRUE...ok you made a point and said you have met people that are silly enough to do the beef just to see what's on the other side...but that don't mean EVERYONE is like that that thinks of killing themselves

Did I state everyone?

~ADHD~

Edit: Let me be more specific-a person can commit suicide for a variety of reasons, not loving oneself is not necessarily always the case.

No but when you responded back to my previous post you insisted in telling me I was wrong by saying ..not true....
You didn't say ...ok that maybe true in some cases but I have met people that just did it to see what's on the other side

Hello Sheri berri,

It is a Rosicrucian perspective, although it is also similar to what is taught in the Traditional Martinist Order. Rosicrucians and Martinists naturally feel an affinity to the Neoplatonists, who were the carriers of the torch of the ancient traditions of ancient Greece, Rome, and Egypt. The fall of the Platonic Academies was a blow to sanity in Western Civilization. The Alexandrian Christians, including Origen and others, had some things in common with the Neoplatonists ... which in part explains the hostility of Justinian towards Origen.

By the way, I love your avatar. It shows an appreciation for aesthetics --- which is a truly spiritual trait. It looks like something Enya would have on her album cover.

Cheers,
Rosencruez

The lake of fire, or fire pit ties into Zoroastrianism.
Hell imo was inspired by Sheol, which was originally just a precinct of heaven. It essentially is just a grave.

I prefer the mahayana buddhist interpretation. There are multiple worlds, including a "hell realm", that one may go to. However, it is your "soul" which decides where you need to go, to learn whatever lessons. However, (and interpretations vary), it is mainly from "heaven" (the "devaloka" or world of gods) or the human realm, that enlightenment is won. It's very complicated. and I am simplifying. there are six vertical "lokas" (locations), from the devaloka down to hell, and four directional paradises, each ruled by a celestial "buddha". all these places, although "real", are constructs of "Mind", and all are, simoultaneously, learning experiences and temporary obstructions to nirvana.

...touché

~ADHD~

IMO, Hell is a construct built off of fear of not living the life of God's plan. Once we fall to the illusions of 'need to live according to God's agenda', illusion of 'failure by not living the plan that God has set forth, therefore not being accepted by God', and the illusion of 'disunity, where we are all seperate from God and one another, therefore judgemental upon each other and ourselves by not living the plan God has set forth'. From these illusions, and there are more illusions created from these, is where the idea of heaven and hell are created.

It is merely a state of mind that people put themselves in according to how they feel they live their life. Should you have a tremendous amount of fear or worry embedded in your way of thinking at the moment you die, you could very well create a hellish experience for yourself upon death. Depending on how you live your life and how you 'think' when following particular beliefs whether religous or not, more than likely will determine what type of experience you have when you die. Even in your living state that you are in now, you can create a heaven like environment around you or a hellish environment around you. So the fact that some people think that we are living in hell right now might very well be creating that state for themselves since that is what they believe or think.

don't worry people...sooner or later we ALL find out if Hell is true or not

I saved one of your links in my favorites to read later i know very little about your philosophy but I find it to be very intersting it encompassses alot of my philosohy that I don't really have, It just jumps out at me and I intend to investigate it further, i read most of your posts, I connect to your style or message none the less I will get back with you once i learn more...thankyou on the avatars I'm a hair stlist `by trade aesthetics is my genre... Namaste Sheri

I know

I'll give 20 to 1 odds; "Not!"
Money back guarantee if I'm wrong. ( Just ignore that sulfur smell on the refund. )

i know that for shore

I like those odds

lif is like skeletons in a closet

How do you mean that!?

i dont know

You have to go through Hell to get to Heaven, so I feel for you there. But, not everything in life is Hell.

There you go inserting another lyric into the conversation. Steve Miller Band's "Jet Airliner" lyric. I love it!


Consider perhaps that the proof is in the faith that we first create our own heaven or hell. Just look at how we discuss the textual histories that define such a goddess or place, often in defense of our own bias on the subject.

And as said already, some of have lived in hell in this life. As some of us live in Heaven. So then, imagine what it really means to live in either now, and at the same time defend the existence of one or the other in the after life.

Do we like it here?
Are we having fun yet?!

Well...when you are driving home and look over just in time to see a cow eating his own poop, you think...'hmmm, my life isn't really that bad after all...'

i over heard someone say that we are living in hell becouse of this sinful world

i dont know what to say

follow the light

Keep in mind there were those that observed the horrors of America's 911 , as our punishment from god for: insert any controversial topic here.
( Gay rights/equality, Democrats existence generally , etc... )

One can hold faith in a creator, created of faith, as a deity possessed of benevolence or malice for it's own creation. However the observation is ambiguous. Where as conscious intent and/or motive to affect a thing in one's personal conscious reality is comprehensible.

In other words, we may not be god(s), however in the realms of faith and reality, one thing I know for a fact is that moment to moment I/we contribute to (create), our moment to moment and thereby enjoy or suffer for the responsibility that entails.

Therefore, thanks for that post Vehement!

Thanks to you I now have a nasty visual of the past life of that fillet mignon resting in my freezer!

how is that god is pinshing us in flesh when he can do it in spirit and one thing for shore did god ever said he does it on purpose he just gave us warnings of the future and thats it but its ok on what you said i will try to understand becouse you have to understand life

follow the light

Seek not to follow that which you already are.

I am the light.
And so are you.

Yes, we are all the light, just sometimes I choose to reflect the light to turn IM off every now and then.

There is really no need to seperate ourselves from one another. Differences between one another only exist on what you believe and what you have been taught to believe. Of course as I said before, we do each exist individually so that we might realize that we are all one and that is the wonderful part about it.

Class song!! Yeah, I wasn't up for it, but the words stuck and began to take on a new meaning in my life these days. I was going to say it another way. In order to get to the top you have to come from the bottom. But, one has to make sure they don't hit Purgatory on the way through.

I agree with this to a certain point. I've read a lot of material and what makes the most sense to me is this article:

THE VOID- AKA HELL

I grew up Catholic and it just didn't make sense to me that a God who claims to love all would let anyone perish. They say there is a plan of salvation and maybe "the void" is where we are given our chances to find our way back to God and back to love.

EDIT: I should also add my largest reason for my belief as to why this makes the most sense to me. Basically ever since I was a child, I had a great fear of the dark. An overwhelming, paralyzing fear of the dark. Just knowing that there was no light and nobody around was very frightening to me. And for some reason when I read that article on the void, it clicked that perhaps this was a place that I have been before. And that is the reason for my fear of being alone in the dark, of being away from others.

I know this is about Hell. But from some of the posts it seems we are talking about wherever it is that "non-believers" will spend eternity. If I am wrong, I apologize.

Although it is not called Hell in these scriptures, the lake of fire seems to fit the "general" description of hell in current culture:

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire This is the second death, the lake of fire.

15And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:13-15

So, it seems, at least from this scripture that those who refuse to accept the gift of salvation offered by God through Jesus' death and resurrection, are doomed to spend eternity in fire.

Although I think that it would in some ways be far more painful to simply spend eternity in complete isolation with nothing to do, but think about the fact that there really is God and Heaven.

I can speak for my own post in saying that I don't think it pertains to "non-believers" only, but to those who are truly LOST all the same.

if a (Western) Christian says that someone is in "Hell", that "is a terrible lack of information", because many versions of the Bible indiscriminately use the word "Hell" to describe three different places. If you press the point, and the Christian says that person is in Gehenna, then you could take a plane to Jerusalem and look for the person there. If the claim is that the person is in Tartarus, you can point out that they were never a stubborn, sinning angel who surrendered their sovereignty during the days of Noah (1 Pet. 3:19-20. 2 Pet. 2:4, Jude 6). And if in Hades, you could rejoice that, like Christ (briefly, Acts 2:3 l), David (Ps. 16: 10), and Jacob (Gn. 37:35) before him, the person has ceased from their troubles and sufferings (Jb. 3:11-19), and now rests, as if asleep (Jn. 11:11,14).

Source

Speaking of "hell" is actually a misconception. What a Christian means when speaking of this place is the fate of those who are thrown into the Lake of Fire, as depicted in Revelation. What should be noted is that there is no reference to these people suffering in the Lake of fire. There is no eternal punishment. Those names not found in teh book of Life were thrown into the lake of fire, "which is the second death" according to scripture. Second death may very well mean just that. A second death, much like the first death one has here on earth when their life expires. In other words, they cease to exist.

A place of torment is set aside in scripture, but this place is not for human beings. No human is ever accredited as being destined for this place. It is set aside only for Satan and his minions. Humans either spend eternity with God, or go to the Second Death, there is no Door Number 3. The early church (most likely in an attempt to scare people into attendance) took the place of torment set aside for Satan and told the masses that this is also where they would go. Biblically, there is no basis for that.

Regards, PA

Hell is a tool that Christianity invented in order to subjugate people. It is a somewhat bizarre aspect where they tell you that if you're bad, you'll go to hell.
How do they know there is a hell, has anyone ever return to tell about it?

No, Hell is just as real as God or Heaven. Meaning, not at all.

PA,

I'm not sure you can say there is no Biblicall basis for that belief. Actually Jesus himself provided the basis in Luke 16:

The Rich Man and Lazarus

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

The place of flames and torment Jesus describes here is refered to as hell (Hades in Greek) and seems fantastically similar to what Christians and "popular" Western culture think of Hell being like.

So, there is very strong (from a Christian's perspective) evidence for hell. I had forgotten about this passage when I posted previously. So, when Revelation 14 says, "...Death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire," it basically means this location as cast into the Lake of Fire. Those who were in hell are judged and since their names are not found in the Book of Life they are thrown into the same place as the place they had resided in was itself cast (sorry, kind of confusing). They were already being tormented in a place of fire, so, do they simply cease to exist or just go into a larger place where the torment will continue? That I am not sure of.

Thanks IamsSon. Yes, that is one of the few passages that make a case for a literal, fiery hell. However, in structure and content, it follows all the traits and conventions of a parable. It has no specified location (where is this story located?). The rich man is not identified (it just says "there was a rich man" - who was he, where did he live). And it definitely makes the point of a parable, which can be found in verse 31 - "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' ". And truly enough, people are not convinced, even though someone (Jesus) DID rise from the dead (according to the conclusion of this same text that this passage comes from).

Additionally, in the context of the text, the passages in the preceding chapter, just before this story all start like this: Luke 15:3-4 - Then Jesus told them this parable: "Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep...., 15:8 - Or suppose a woman has ten silver coins...., 15:11 - Jesus continued: "There was a man who had two sons...., 16:1 - Jesus told his disciples: "Thre was a rich man whos manager...., 16:19 - "there was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and livery....

Exactly the same opening as the rest of the parables in the imediately preceding verses. Structure, content, context all point to this being a parable, and as is the case with parables, it is a fictional story told to convey a message, in this case, even if someone rises from the dead, people aren't going to believe.

This passage should not be taken as an indication of what Hell will really be like.

Regards, PA