maybe not the bibles where messed with afther all

May i ask why this is in the jokes and humour section?

i dont know why need to change that

The only cosmic joke behind what Hell really is, ( not that Dante isn't involved ) is we don't know whether it's really hot or cold. So if it is a cosmic joke, what is the question or the answer?

Can't figure it out? - Well, then move it to the Spirituality section after all...

Why not do a little experiment: Hop on over to the astral projection threads in the psychic section of this board. Master the technique ... and then find out for yourself on the Astral Planes whether or not there is or is not a "hell." ... or "heaven" for that matter. This site might help you get started by getting ideas from others who have voyaged on the inner planes:

The Devachanic Plane or the Heaven World, its characteristics and inhabitants

i might do that

Do it

being smart are you

HELL NO
Heaven and hell exist only in the minds of those that believe in it. IMO

hell is a manufactured idea to scare people into doing as they are told IMO

know i did hear about that and i think that is true to
what a way to rule someone

Well hell in the Bible wasn't necessarily a place. It was separation from God, or a grave. It could be classified as a state of mind. Hell should not be confused with the lake of fire in Revelation.

^ exactly.

knologed welcome to UM I hope you enjoy us.... There would be no other purpose for it and it is catching on more and more people are letting go of the construct of hell, movement is slow but it is movement none the less....

i heard and read that god does not send you away but puts you in a place where you are still ok and the so call luficer is the one protecting them until they change we live in hell so it seems to me god is not putting you in hell,and pluse heaven has to stay good at all timesbecouse there is a evil force out there

That's interesting. Do you remember where you heard it?
Lucifer would not be in Revelation though, he's a mistranslation.

say more please

about...?
Revelation? Well whoever is not written in the book of life go into the lake of fire etc. But I think some Puritans confused it with hell. And this was evident in J. Edwards sermon.

Reminds me of the funniest sign I have ever seen. It was huge and hung from the side of a church. It read: Go to church, because Hell is VERY HOT! lol

Hell is ... the place where you don't wanna be ...

Is Hell Forever ?

Hell is here on earth...why else do most of us dream of heaven?

I myself do not believe in hell, but I wouldn't make jokes about it. Especially around others who don't think it so funny. I believe in being respectful to other people's spiritual beliefs. I do not mean this in a rude way at all - but in todays world more people should keep their mouth's shut and their minds open and maybe more people would get along. Who knows more people may find a different way of looking at things.

Actually the lake of fire reference in Revelations was antedated by the Egyptian and Greek myths of the underworld and flaming lake of fire.

And long before Christianity the Norse revered Queen Hel, or Goddess Hel, the empress of the underworld.

Wouldn't it be ironic though if there were a Hell?

If a god supposedly created us he also created the need for sadisim and evil. He also created pride and he or she or it must have known when creating these things mortals can fall to that some of us would. He created our brains and our brains are capable of hate and love. Our brains are also capable of falling to a mental illness or becoming 'insane.' When you murder someone and feel no guilt afterwards, there's something wrong with you because we all have a conscience. What if it's not their fault, that there was something wrong with their brain?

It's like someone creating something ugly and expecting it to be beautiful.
It's not fair to punish us for being human, and all the bad, hateful things that come with it.

Why would you waste your time judging us when you know everyone has told at least one lie or done something very bad?

Now comes the issue of Hitler. Is Hitler not being punished in Hell? The answer is that he was punished already on Earth. It was his own karma that spited him.

Lucifer is considered to be a mistranslation. here is a link for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

However that then opens the question to include the origin of Karma.

I think hell and heaven are contrivances of moral absolutism. Comply or burn, as it were. Combined with the egalitarian philosophy that professes self-sacrifice in this life, suffering for that aforementioned absolute is benevolent and self-rewarding after that stage (life) when "self" mattered. What mortal comfort that philosophy must have engendered to those who suffer(ed) daily, as a matter of course. Fear not starvation today, god loves the repentant. Or not. Sadism indeed. (Perhaps reverence is then sadomasochism. )

Imagine how impacting the thought of a vengeful god was to illiterate peasants in the 15th century. Those that lived simply before the advent of the new faith, to be preached to that their former selves and way of life had been damned to burn for eternity, for worshiping evils (devils), had it not been for the new god of all the gods. (In a pantheistic society that would indeed seem awesome I imagine. "The" god of the gods. )

Truer words were never spoken!

If God did not create us, then murdering someone and not feeling guilty is quite acceptable. Morals would be relative. Only with a supreme God who cares about what we do and how we act would there be any sense of supreme right and wrong.

You've just proved the Christian's point of view. We have all done wrong. We are all sinful. Even the best of us has done something wrong. That's human nature. And that nature alone is insufficient to reach God. That's why God intervened on our behalf. To bring us to him - so we could not boast of our own righteousness in being justified (as I'm sure you are aware, many people do), but rely totally on God's power.

Regards, PA

PA you & many others believe a god did create you and there are still people in the world the murder people and don't feel guity about it. Many of them believe in the same god you do.

That's right Major LOL

Having a conscience doesn't justify the existence of God, and even if he were real, I don't need him or Jesus to save me from my sins. No one does, all that is doing is making us feel better for being filthy sinners and we get to continue on sinning knowing dear God will forgive us anyway.

You know qarrah they always say we get our traits from our parents. I guess that the xians got their guilt traits from the jews.
Stereotyping I know, don't kill the budding comedianne

Just because there are "Christians" who do this, does not make them right. Their actions show their heart. Hatefully and calloussly murdering or oppressing does in no way show the great commandment of Love your neighbour.

Not quite! If one were to believe in Jesus and keep sinning willingly, then have they truly repented? Repentence means a conscious and concerted effort to turn 180 degrees and STOP doing what you were doing.

It's not a licence to do whatever you want because you'll be forgiven (contradictory to what many think, some Christians among them).

Regards, PA

God says love your neighbour yet there are wars and there will be wars.

God has too high expectations of us?

Do you love your neighbor?

First I didn't say they were xians. I said they believe in the same god as you and to me they are all alike. Do you think they give a darn about their neighbor?

I don't love my neighbour

Of course you don't, you're the anti-christ
How did I miss that

I don't love mine either...she's a nosey cow to be honest and her lil boy throws tash everywhere and it floats into my yard...I wanna ram a yard bruch up his ......helllooo

No seriously though I love my neighbors..and I aint talking about the neighbors beside me where I live...when I say I love my neighbor I love/respect those that have different faiths...I dont agree with their faiths but that dont mean I dont respect them....ohh heck I love you all...so come give BM some sugar

As frequently as schedules permit.

Seriously though, I do not love my neighbor because they are so, and as such expect the same in return. Who am I to presume their moral standard(s) or affinity for me? And who are they that I would commit to all that euphemism entails?

"Love thy neighbor as thyself."

What if one is not possessed of self-respect, or a sense of personal responsibility or any of the other inherent qualities that first make someone likable. And if one does treat their neighbor as themselves, what does that bode for those of us in the company of viciousness , depravity or indifference?

(sic)"... "Love one another" it has been said is the supreme law, but what power made it so? Upon what rational authority does the gospel of love rest? Why should I not hate mine enemies - if I "love" them does that not place me at their mercy?
Is it natural for enemies to do good unto each other--and what Is Good?
Can the torn and bloody victim "love" the blood-splashed jaws that rend him limb from limb?
Are we not all predatory animals by instinct? If humans ceased wholly from preying upon each other, could they continue to exist?"

(sic) "Life is the great indulgence--death, the great abstinence. Therefore, make the most of life--Here And Now!

Say unto thine own heart, I am mine own redeemer.

(Source: The Satanic Bible -- Anton Szandor LaVey (The Book of Satan excerpts of Books 3 & 4.)
Other opinion philosophy:

Link


*link edit*

To the left of me; there is a shop (too many customers/shop assistants to love, and not enough for me to give, I'm afraid). They ID me every time I go in, and take forever to even realise you're standing there. They're slow and very annoying (it's what comes with living in a village known as "Snoozy-Inbredsville"). NO. I don't love them - they suck!

To the right of me; there is a Chinese Take-away. I don't like Chinese (food, not people) and they make my kitchen smell of special fried rice and chicken chow mein. AcK! NO. I don't love them - they too suck! (but the blokes may find the girl behind the counter very cute ... hell, even I do).

Downstairs is a funeral directors. The only ones that are still alive are the ones who take hundreds of £'s from people who's hearts are already broken. They rip them off by supplying a coffin that is most likely going to be burnt anyway - not to mention the rest of the service they rip you off for. NO. I don't love them - they're daylight thieves!

As for the dead people downstairs; well, they're not my neighbours for long enough.

Oh, and if there really is a Hell, then I believe that THIS is it - life.

why love a neighbour when you can't even love yourself?

if respecting other people's religions is loving a neighbour, I'm a little hateful.

.
I'll second that.

IT DONT EXIST.

But I do love myself, you have to be able to love yourself before you can love others

You must love yourself too...if you didn't you would be one of these people that only wishes you could just die and you would have attemtped to take your own life long before now...as you are still here you must love yourself

I am my own enemy. We have a love/hate relationship.

I'm only here because of failed suicide attempts. Even if I did love myself I'd never put anyone else before me. Very egotistical

Hell was created to scare pagans and the likes to convert to Christianity and go to church. I think it's an urban legend at the most.

If you had a child of your own you would put that child in front of yourself

I can see the logic in the last part of your post...I guess it makes sense that hell is only a place to scare those that believe in God to help guide them to lead a loving path...but what I have some to notice is that NB's know what love is and a vast number of them have not broken the 10 commandments, and I'd dare say a lot of them lead wonderful lives..so it goes to show you that you don't need to be religious to become a great person

Reincarnation was one of the accepted teachings of Christianity right up until the Second Council of Constantinople in the days of Emperor Justinian (ca. 530-550 or so). Justinian was trying hard to consolidate power and so he arrested Pope Vigelius and forced him to convene an ecumenical council that would condemn the writings of Origen, who taught of a "primordial soul."

About that time the concepts of Original Sin and Hell were trumped up to scare people into obeying the church.

Thus, the church's teachings on these matters came about more because of political expediency than any kind of spiritual verity.

In reality, people can experience the Path of Saturn in this life or the afterlife. It is a path of fire, of purification. It involves what the Alchemists called the "calcification" of the ego. It involves humiliating defeat, crushing set-backs and the ruination of all that one cares about. The extinguishing of the ego to reveal the fine powder underneath ... to eventually transform lead, which is impervious to solar radiation, into gold --- symbolic of the Soul. This is the golden fleece. The "12-gated city" of "transparent gold" that comes down from Above.

The Astral Plane is constructed of human and super-human thought and emotion. Ideas and emotions coalesce into forms. Thought-form, and group thought-forms. There are locales and citadels on the Astral Planes. Groups of people thinking about something in particular can create semi-permanent places on the inner planes. Rosicrucians have their special citadel; we call it the "Celestial Sanctum." If you want to visit its counterpart in the physical world, go to Cornwall and visit Saint Michael's Mount. Or in Normandy, France, le Mon San-Michele. It is quite beautiful ... and yet merely a distant reflection of an even more splendid citadel in the higher world.

Pax deorum,
Rosencruez

What philosophy is this Rosen?? I am with you on the origins on reincarnation, again very intersting read.......