personally i couldnt live without steak

but is there any info to suggest vegaterians are more healthy or live longer ?

seems if they lived longer the news would be all over it

does anyone here stick to that diet ?

I don't eat fish or meat, I just don't like it, I never have done. (My baby book states "likes baked beans, dislikes chicken") I'd say being vegetarian is only healthier if you know what substitute foods you need to get all your vitamins etc.

Recently I've found out I may be lactose intolerant, which means I'll need to first cut out dairy totally to find out if it makes a difference and then make sure I counteract the lack of dairy with other foods. I don't really want to become Vegan but if it's necessary I'll be consulting a dietician to make sure I'm eating the right things.

Personally I'd recommend a healthy diet includes fish and lean white meat.

I am not a vegetarians but do calorie restriction... which does extend life span.

I don't think that vegetarians live that much longer and some may have long term vitamin/mineral deficiencies if they don't supplement.

There is no evidence to support the idea that us Vegeterians are more healthy. Quite to the contrary, in fact.

I'm into bodybuilding so i can't go without chicken and fish.I don't eat red meat ever though.

I'm vegetarian, but I'm quite unhealthy because I don't take vitamins and I only eat one meal a day. I suppose if you got the right information, it would be good for you.

same as me, though it depends how bothered I am to make something, I either have 2 or 3 meals a day, or 1 a day.

but I guess if you did the meals right I guess it still gives you the recommended nutrition values

Walken is right. Vegetarians normally don't get enough amino acids in them. Also, eating too much red meat is bad. Eating right amounts of everything is the best.

you have a source for this ?

my grandfather was over-weight and he lived to be 96

exceptions to every rule i know but gees

It can go either way. Vegetarians could be if they consume all the nessacary vitamins etc, although its easier for us meat eaters since a lot of meat already contains most of the vitamins and minerals, such as fish, which is really good for you

I'm a vegan and very versed in nutrition I have taken alot of classes and still do, wth do you want to know in particular??Yes they are healthier, food builds a strong body and strong systems, fresh foods such as vegtables, fruit legumes rice (brown raw nuts etc... little to no animal foods most definitley builds a immune sytem that can fend off just about anything, I must tell you I take veganism seriously and put the time in to learn about it and I have reaped many health benefits, I was asthmatic very seriously all my life , It is completely gone, I had all kinds of sinus issues gone, skin disorders gone, My son who is 8 has never been on an antibiotic, and has never had anything more than a common cold... oh i do not take suppliments, that is personal preference , and a myth in my world, I'd say learn about nutrition so few even understand it, there are free classes available often through your medical...Most gyms have a nutrtionist you can meet with or your doctor cabn point you in the nutriton direction. , if not buy a book on nutrition go online...the majority of health issues are due to the consumption of animal products........It also makes kids smarter and devoid of behavioral issues brought on by sugar in the diet...

YOU BECOME WHAT YOU EAT...........a well nourished lifestyle is a well nurished healthy human....

I'm evidence and so are the vegans i know, you are talking on no authority at all....

It is a myth the human body needs meat to sustain it.....

Are Vegetarian Diets Unhealthy?

"Significant athersclerosis is rare in peoples whose
diet over the life span is predominantly vegetarian
and low in calories, total lipids, saturated lipids and
cholesterol."

Nutrition and Athersclerosis by Louis Katz. 1958
______________________________________

"The study measured testosterone levels in 696
Oxford University men. Of the study participants,
233 were vegan (ate no animal products) and
237 were vegetarian (ate milk and dairy products).
The remaining 237 subjects were men who ate
meat on most days of the week...vegans had
higher testosterone levels than vegetarians and
meat-eaters."

British Journal of Cancer, 83(1), July 2000
______________________________________

"Scientific data suggest positive relationships
between a vegetarian diet and reduced risk
for several chronic degenerative diseases and
conditions, including obesity, coronary artery
disease, hypertension, diabetes mellitus, and
some types of cancer."

Journal of the American Dietetic Association,
November 1997, 97(1)
______________________________________

"Vegetarians often have lower mortality rates
from several chronic degenerative diseases
than do nonvegetarians."

British Medical Journal, 1996; 313
______________________________________

"Vegan diets are appropriate for all stages of the life
cycle, including during pregnancy and lactation."

Am J Clin Nutr. 1994;59(suppl):1176S-1181S.
______________________________________

"Vegan diets can meet the nutrient and energy needs
of pregnant women. Birth weights of infants born to
well nourished vegetarian women have been shown
to be similar to birth-weight norms and to birth weights
of infants of nonvegetarians."

Pediatrics. 1989;84
______________________________________

"Vegetarian diets low in fat or saturated fat
have been used successfully as part of
comprehensive health programs to reverse
severe coronary artery disease."

Journal of the American Medical Association
1995; 274
______________________________________

"Vegetarian diets offer disease protection
benefits because higher concentration of
antioxidants such as vitamins C and E,
carotenoids, and phytochemicals."

Am J Clin Nutr. 1996;63(suppl)
______________________________________

"Vegetarian diets offer disease protection
benefits because of their lower saturated fat,
cholesterol, and animal protein content and
often higher concentration of folate
which reduces serum homocysteine levels."

J Am Diet Assoc. 1995;95
______________________________________

"Mortality from coronary artery disease is
lower in vegetarians than in nonvegetarians."

British Medical Journal, 1994; 308
______________________________________

"Vegetarian diets have been successful in
arresting coronary artery disease."

Am J Epidemiol. 1995;142
______________________________________

"Serum cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein
cholesterol levels are usually lower in vegetarians."

Am J Clin Nutr. 1994;59
______________________________________

"Vegetarians have a lower incidence of hypertension
than nonvegetarians."

Am J Clin Nutr. 1994; 59(suppl)
______________________________________

"Type 2 diabetes mellitus is less likely to be a
cause of death in vegetarians than nonvegetarians."

Am J Clin Nutr. 1988;48(suppl)
______________________________________

"Incidence of lung and colorectal cancer is lower
in vegetarians than in nonvegetarians."

Am J Clin Nutr. 1994;59(suppl)
______________________________________

"Reduced colorectal cancer risk is associated with
increased consumption of fiber, vegetables, and fruit."

Cancer Causes Control. 1991;1:427-442.
______________________________________

"Breast cancer rates are lower in populations that
consume plant-based diets."

American Cancer Society
Cancer Facts and Figures, 1994
______________________________________

"Some plant proteins may increase survival rates and
decrease proteinuria, glomerular filtration rate, renal
blood flow, and histologic renal damage compared
with a nonvegetarian diet."

Clinical Nutrition, 1995;10

from the notmilk newsletter. visit www.notmilk.com for more.

thankyou Hyper i was literally coming back to set up to post studies and you have it covered

A well balanced diet is still better than all-meat or vegetarian diets.

Many amino acids cannot be found in one, but the other.

Of course, one of the lives you could save or at least prolong is your own. For vegetarianism should be about more than not eating; it's also about smart eating. You needn't be a born-again foodist to think this. The American Dietetic Association, a pretty centrist group, has proclaimed that "appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, are nutritionally adequate and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases."

One of the biggest fears meat-eaters have is that vegetarian food does not contain all the necessary nutrients for healthy living. The meat industry is big and powerful -- The fact is, vegetarians on average eat better than nonvegetarians. They consume more vitamin A, C, E, thiamine and riboflavin, magnesium, folate, and carotenoids such as beta-carotene. The typical vegetarian eats about 2 to 3 times as much fiber as the nonvegetarian. The health dividends paid by these nutrients have been thoroughly studied. Most research suggests that dietary antioxidants found in foods, such as carotenoids and vitamins C and E, are associated with a reduced risk of cancer and heart disease. Folate consumption may reduce blood levels of homocysteine, which some important studies have linked to heart disease risk. And while a key study showed earlier this year that fiber does not protect against colon cancer, researchers still believe it works to lower "bad," low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol. Just as important is what is missing from the vegetarian's plate: the meatless diet has less saturated fat, less cholesterol, and fewer calories. Vegetarians have largely escaped the American epidemic of obesity, and they have much lower rates of Type 2 diabetes.


The central idea of vegetarianism -- that there is a kinship of all nature -- stretches back 2,500 years to the Greek philosopher Pythagoras. But Cowherd was in the right place at the right time to make it into a popular movement.

Salford's links with vegetarianism go back to 1809 when the Reverend William Cowherd established the Bible Christian Church as a breakaway from the Swedenborgian New Church in King Street, his congregation had to take a vow not to eat meat. Chapels were also established in Manchester at Ancoats and Hulme.

After all in the optimum organic living conditons it is the vegitation that grows the animals most animals are vegetarian...

Again, a mixed diet is the best. Sadly, not many eat a mixed diet...its all extreme.

i admit i'm all about the extremes there, can you say the wendys grand slam combo? that's one pound of beef per burger! two of those, and youre ready to face the day! though as frogfish stated, a mixed proper diet would be the best for everyone...still, i do love me a grand slam...

I have been a steak lover all my life. Just recently I have changed my diet and I have to admit I feel more energetic already. I suppose we'll see over time but thus its been great actually. I still eat fish though. Actually believe it or not my kids love sushi and I think I would have to pry them away from it....strange.

Star this is the first time in human history tha tchildren will be alive in a time where veganism is excepted, many children are choosing naturally to go vegan, my son inspired us, and I was a vegan as a child I was forced to eat meat by ignorant parents.....

"For vegetarianism should be about more than not eating; it's also about smart eating"

it has to be about what you do eat.

a balanced vegan diet of fruits, nuts, plants, grains contains everything the human body requires.

Why do we eat meat then?

You know to be quite honest my children don't particulary like meat. I always noticed that at dinner time they go right for the mashed potatoes and corn or broccoli. I never make them get meat, I just figure if they want the potatoes and broccoli than go for it. Its always mostly been my fiancee and I eating the meat. except for the fish they love that.

I need to get a book to read about this. I really think my family will fair just fine without the meat. My fiancee's sister is a vegan and owns her own natural herb shop. She hasn't gotten a cold in 6 years. I'm venturing over to the other side slowly but surely. I'm very small and always thought I need to meat to keep weight on but in the meantime I have high colestoral and pulmonary problems. I tend to think a change in diet will make all the difference.

There is nothing better than hunting down prey and ripping its carcass open while roaring your cry of dominance, feasting on its flesh. And no, vegitarians arent more healthy because you need the protine and what not in meat, i dont think there were many vegitarian homosepians.

If I hadn't already eaten a meaty dinner I could go for a deer tenderloin right now

Moe, I guess the cave man still lives lol.... Fallacy on the protein thing excessive protien leads to all kinds of health problems kidney damage, hair loss, gout etc etc...

Arty the meat industry decided humans needed meat, it is false......Just like the dairy industry decide we needed tons of milk which will actually lead to the very problem it is said to prevent.. osteoporosus..lol

Also protien is in everything , there is not one reported case anywhere even in third world countrys of a protien deficency, Its darn near impossible to get a protien deficiency, Rice is the perfect food (brown rice) As hyper said you will get just what you need with plants fruits rice, nuts and clean water.....


Star good for you, many people are inspired by the children i sure was, Get a Diet for a new america by Jim Robbins Excellent read and gives alot of info and clears up all the bullSh*t that circulates on the myths concerning food.....

No, actually I decided I needed and wanted meat because I like it. Sheri, humans were eating meat long before the meat industry, why do you think there is a meat industry anyway, its because people want meat.

Arty why do you think you need meat???? I bet you answer one of the five reasons if not all that most people say who know nothing on nutrtion...?And tell me what you know about the about the meat industry Arty....

being generalists, humans can eat just about anything. that however does not mean that everything is optima for human nutrition!

humans are optimally "vegans" (i use quotes because there are many things considered vegan that are NOT good at all for you).

just remeber the length of time it takes for meat to pass through your system. Your bowl movements should be fast and clean. If your sitting on the toilet, needing TP, not going a couple times a day, then your digestive system is failing and it is failing because of what you are (and are not) eating. Humans have an intestinal length suited to the breakdown of plants, not meats.

Sheri, our bodies are perfectly capable of handling meat, they can break it down very well. We've been doing it since the first rabbit was spotted millenia ago, guaranteed. Sure some meat is fattier than others so then don't eat that type very often. Moderation is key. Although my great grandfather ate bacon, sausage, and eggs pratically everyday of his life and lived to be 92.
The meat industry wouldn't exist if there wasn't a market for it. They don't have to use clever advertising to get me to eat it or most other people for that matter. Come on, seriously.

Yeah right, that's why we have canine teeth is it?

We and the apes have a common ancestry. As the apes are omnivores not herivores it is reasonable to assume that we too are omnivores.

Not to mention the fact tht plants are naturally compatable with us and we assimulate more vitamins and nutrients from plants then meat, The digesting of meat is so hard on the body it wears it down alot sooner.....And the longer something sits in your bowels the more toxins you reabsorb and many cancers are a a result of a tapped out digestive systems.....

i eat more veggies than meat mostly corn i love some corn!! but i wouldnt say ones better than the other though thats just my personal views as long as you balance the two you should be fine.

Saddly to say this is how most make decisons , one has cannine teeth so he must be a carnivore..lol

Jeremy its becoming well documented that meat is not good for you, once a month probably won't hurt you but other than that it is a detrement, Its the leading cause of heart disease, many cancers, so many things.........Its dead putrefied waste that has been injected full of hormones and antibiotics , i can't for the life of me see good health coming out of those conditions...

We are carnivores, if we weren't we wouldn't eat meat, simple as that. We crave meat, example; my sister in law was pregnant and before hand she was almost vegetarian, she'd eat fish occassionally and the sight of red meat made her cringe. While pregnant though she starting craving red meat and starting eating it and still does occassionally now. I think most are vegetarian because the are turned of by meat, the texture and the thought of chewing on flesh, not just because of health reasons.

arty,

i am vegan because of the science behind it, not because of "being turned off by chewing meat".

We are opimally plant-eaters, but are generalists meaning we can eat meat if we need to.

Give me some scientific proof that herbivorin' over carnivorin' extends your life.

Arty hyper and myself posted plenty of info on just that di you not read it???/i also cited a book that is excelelnt on the subject Diet for a new America by john Robbins..

i too didn't become vegan becasue of a dislike for meat or an issue with eating meat, it wasa on a whim which through investigating and researching and learning i couldn't beleive i didn't do it sooner, i recovered great health in the first year, It just makes sense and the benefits are so astounding its absurd to argue the point...Even as a carvnivour i suspected that eating a vegan diet was optimal...Arty our body craves what you give it, if you give it meat it craves meat, i donot ever crave meat.....

i agree with the we have canine teeth therefore we are expected to eat meat idea

must be a reason cows have only grinding teeth

seems if i was supposed to eat like a cow i would have thier teeth

Sheri, I get the feeling you just don't like the thought of killing animals, seriously what else could be such a driving motive. Because pushing health on people is kind of silly. People know they need to eat a balanced diet and exercise regularly, but choose not to because they're lazy.

well, et, you do have grinding teeth, as well as cutting teeth.

now, if you think your so well built for "carnivoring" get a video camera and tape you catching,killing, and ripping raw muscle tissue off that animal with your teeth, and post it here.

you can't. your body can not rip raw meat well, and it can not digest it well because you are not designed for it.

Et we are omnivores which means you can eat both plant and animal protien, but we do not need to eat meat we choose to eat meat..In otherwords you have a choice, now if ther was no other thing to eat besides meat that is one thing but that is not the case, we ahve gone the opposite and meat is the center point of the diet many don't eat veggies or fruit or grains or nuts...Just like the human body isn't made to consume alcohol (I'm sure someone will come up with a way they are just sure we are naturally alchoholics) you can drink it but it will eventually show up as hypertension cirhosis diabeters etc etc.....

yes actually i can do those things very easily

for i have a gun and a knife and i have mastered the use of fire

another thing that seperates me from the cows

Arty i care for the well being of my health and all others, In america we are the sickest unhealthiest society, over third world countries, encouraging health is not silly Arty its needed.....Arty everything begins with you, i can't afford to be lazy or lax i have kids that are watching me nor would i being sick is no fun nor any way to live nor is it productive to not care for the planet that sustains me i seem to muster up the incentive to be concerned about that.......But of course you should do whatever serves you...


I'd love to see that video moe and et do you except hypers challenge???? lol .

you missed the point, but even with those aids, the most important to this thread being the cooking of meat, you still will not digest the cooked meat very efficiently. It will rot in your intestines for weeks and you will not get anywhere the same level of nutrients from it compared to plants "pound for pound". The most important point being that optimally you would do much better on a plant based diet.

That does not stop one from surviving on meats, but one can survive pouring sugar down one's throat as well. Do not equate the ability to eat something with nutrition.

youre the one that told me i couldnt kill an animal and eat it

you lost the arguement dont be mad at me for it


and fyi my grandfather ate meat everyday and lived to 96

grandma is 92 and going strong

Sheri, do you believe we have the right to kill animals?

no, i said catch, kill, and rip raw muscle tissue from it with your teeth.

you replied you would kill and use a knife and fire, which is your admitting you could not do as i asked!

anecdotal n=1 claims are not valid. i could also give you the name a vegan athelete that died of heart failure at 42 to bolster your claim. I mention this because genetics are the factor we can not control. You can control diet and exercise, and so you should.

yes i see now you said bare handed

very well

im still confident there are many animals i could kill bare handed, then eat with the aid of fire

as for controlling diet, yes i do control mine and daily it consists of meat atleast twice a day

as i said, my grandfather was 96 and he was also fat, didnt stop him

maybe this is where we agree to disagree

though i do have one other question

you and sherri seem to think a vegan diet is beneficial, so just how much does it add to your life ?

days, weeks, months, years ?

cause unless it is like several years ill stick with the steak

you cant tell me a couple months is worth never eating steak again, maybe it is for you but not for me