Actually I never said you shouldn't eat meat, I said you don't need it, its your choice whether you want to or not, Iim not trying to force it on you, but don't use the we need to eat meat excuse, because that's not true, its purely a choice thing.

Also I never said your theory doesn't have any proof, I said i've not seen any proof of your theory, as in you've not shown me any, you say we must have protein, and yet haven't shown why plant protein isn't enough, and why we must have animal protein, and you say it was animal protein that fueled our brain evolution, when in fact everything seems to point to higher fat content diets instead, i'm not saying protein isn't important, but what i am saying is i've seen nothing that shows that plant protein isn't more than sufficient.

All things eat plants one way or another, many lack the understanding of what the function of protien is...It is of prime value or importance that doesn't equate you need tons of animal protien, it is well established we assimulate plants very easily and use much more of the nutrients, you actually take on the qualitys of hte foods you eat few really grasp this idea... although we can eat meat if the circumstances warrranted it was never intended to be consumed as it is now.......Of course I say do it if its what you want it is after all your choice but to profess its a need or a great source of protien is just silly....
Just about every point has been responded too thanks to avin, and Hyper and a few others, for contributing research and insight into this topic......

Rember all protien has a biological value. Plant protein is not as high as dairy or animal.

I agree with Avi here...You don't NEED meat...but a mixed diet of both veggies and meat is the best.

Animal protien would not be better than plant protien there is no comparison, Just like breast milk is superior for baby over formula.....meat is meant for the times you can't get access to plants as one way or another all things eat plants...the meat you eat is from animals that are natural herbivores, although man has messed around long enough and turned some in to cannabals.......This generation will not outlive its parents due to the consumption of animal...of course its your choice but remeber its a choice .........

However sources of plant proteins usually result in fewer health issues (a lot of health issues can be traced to meat and dairy products), in addition even if they have a slightly lower BV value, the fact is most people consume more protein than they need in a day, even vegeterians and vegans, so even with the lower BV values its not an issue.



lol ...you're allowed your opinions

Good point avin there has not been one recorded case even in third world countries of a protien deficiency...It has been said over and over on this thread..I forget at this moment the side effect of a protien deficnecy but its not even that serious...many nutrion ideas that most hold are myths.....hands down many health issues are in large part due to excessive protien but as with many constructs many find them hard to transcend.......

indeed sheri,

excess protien can pose many health issues while the only way one can die from a protien deficiency is via starvation.

You are quite right, YES protien is high in dairy than either of them put together source --> High Protien

Protein in Meat

The protein in meat often has a high biological quality compared to many plant foods. Some processed forms of meat tend to have a lower protein quality than the fresh counterparts but still generally higher than plant foods.

You just disproved your own point right here BM

As you just showed plant protein sources can supply the same amount of protein as any animal protein product.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I know LOL

Ok let me just say this meat and dairy are high in protein...

Speaking of meat and dairy...here is a lil nice recipe you guys must try

Slowly cook your steak...

Leave the fat on..it adds flavour


When it is almost done


Grade some cheese on top...

Add a lil hint of soya sauce

and PRESTO you have a yummy dinner

hmmmmmmmmmmmm steak

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A vegan Recipe

Salad Lucoise

A vegan version of an old favourite, replacing tuna with braised tofu and eggs with olives.

Ingredients:

1 tin of braised tofu (Marigold is good)

2 cups of cooked and cooled runner beans or long green beans

5 or 6 tomatoes

2 or 3 cups of boiled and cooled new potatoes

a good handful of black olives, pitted

2 tablespoons of walnut oil

2 tablespoons of balsamic vinegar

The Main Course for Vegans...(that sounds nice)

Aduki Bean Cottage Pie - inspired by a meal seen on Channel 4's 'You Are What You Eat'


Ingredients:

125g. aduki beans, soaked overnight

1 large onion, chopped

2 carrotts, chopped

2 sticks of celery, chopped

salt to taste

2-3 teaspoons of original bisto (or any vegan gravy) and water for mixing

topping choices:

a cupful of millet boiled with a cauliflower and then mashed with a little seasalt

or a cupful of millet boiled with 3 or 4 chopped, peeled parsnips and mashed

or mashed potatoes prepared with soya milk and marg. (slightly less healthy)

sweet potato mash is also good!

Place the aduki beans in a pan and cover well with water. bring to the boil and then turn down to a simmer until softened (varies - can be half an hour or a bit more). Drain and then add the vegetables, cover with water again and bring to boil and then simmer for about 10-15 minutes. Add your bisto or other gravy mix plus any salt desired, and place in an oven proof dish. Yop with mash of choice and then into the oven to brown up a little (200C/400F for about 20-30 minutes or longer of heating up from cold later). Fantastic served with slightly boiled spring greens or dark cabbage.


Sheri you should try that one





*runs like fook out of thread*

One needs no more than 10 to 15 percent of their daily intake on protien, maybe a touch more if you work out...the recommended amounts of protien are inflated greatly its impossible to not get enough and the quality of your protien should be figured in hands down although meat may be a high source of protien in some cases which is a moot point because generally we get too much protien, the quality is very important....the protien in plants is synergystic with our organisms...what most are missing is animal anything is very hard on our bodys very hard to digest and very hard to assimulate...this we know for sure too much animal will only lead to poor health.......not a medical establishment anywhere will say otherwise...

Human beings are designed to eat all sorts of food we have 4 teeth designed for tearing meat and therefore we shouldn't deny nature. There is no proof in the goodness of vegetarianism. and you moralisers who are vegetarians you have to kill plants to eat them.

Its not natural to eat meat, we have been over this many times, we are well aware of the canine teeth theory...ha ha ha ha maybe you would like to except the challenge presented earlier in the thread...lol...... eating meat is a choice to compare using what you need from a plant( its not nessecary to kill the whole plant) to killing animals in heinous manners is absurd.....I'm not opposed to killing animals if you had to survive but this is not the case and the way the animals are treated and what they are fed is just cruel not to mention this practice of killing animals has polluted our oceans raped our rain forests and the whole ecosystem is thrown out of wack.........I'm not more "moral because i eat a plant based diet, I just define responsiblty for myself and the planet that sustains me alot differently...people choose to eat meat when its not needed to survive and get bent when anyone challenges their involvement and justification in destroying the planet that sustains them....but by all means its your choice...........

Hahaha! You still say this? I have proved to you over and over that humans are just as designed to eat meat as veggies

We are also designed to kill others but it doesn't make it natural.......don't confuse normal with natural........

I am not

Frog the only two debates towards eating animals is this one we have cannine teeth which Avin and Hyper addressed thoroughly, and that being an omnivours means we are natural meat eaters which also has been addressed by hyper and Avin also sorry frog no offense but in partnership with my own investigations you have proved nothing ...designed and natural are two differnet things...we are also able too smoke but its not natural, we are also designed to eat sugar but is it natural??????many consume alcohol yet its not natural i could go on and on but you get the point.......many things are deemed normal because everyone does it....there is alot of myths built into the meat thing lol.......

Umm...yes there is, there have been a lot of studies that show vegeterians are on average healthier.



Correction we are capable of eating meat, but this does not indicated designed, as in most optimum diet, in fact studies have shownthat those who eat little to no meat are healthier.

But we are not designed to smoke However, we are designed to digest glucose and meat. Nature does not select traits for no reason.

Again, being capable of doing something is not the same as that being the optimum choice, (don't use designed, that's too ID) if anything its been shown that those who eat little or no meat are in many ways healthier.

frog people smoke eventually it will kill them as over consuming meat......it has been recently discovered that a meat based diet is detrimental to your health.... nutrition isn't a static thing.......part of research is things are evolving as we learn more....

Sheri & Frog you are both right


We are designed to eat meat...a lot of vegans and vegaterians all ate meat at one stage...we all have eaten vegies at one stage too


I hate to say this but yes humans are designed to eat meat and veg..its part of our survival

But to say that...Sheri...we can live without it too well most can...I was told by my doc to eat more red meat to give me more fiber

But I know that other food give lots of fiber too


Guys this is silly argueing over meat and veg....think about all those poor starving children in the 3rd world countries that would give anything for a peice of meat or veg

Now quit arguing LOL or i'll bite both of you..for I have teeth that are designed just for biting LOL


Please Sheri dont be mad at me for this..I am only saying that YOU & Frogie are BOTH right...cuz you BOTH are..

As for meat...your front row of teeth..look at the two fangs you have ( I cant recall the propper name for them) they are designed to tear into meat...sorry but thats a fact...your molars are desingned to chew..thats another fact


But I have to take my hat off to Sheri...she stand up for what she believes in and I respect her for it..you go girl

ok and a lion could eat grass doenst mean itss natural a cheetah could eat bark doesnt mean its natural a bald eagle could swoop down and grab corn but it doenst mean its natural. that thinking cna go both way my dear.

But to say that...Sheri...we can live without it too well most can...I was told by my doc to eat more red meat to give me more fiber


Geri meat has no fiber or complex carbs.....plants provide you fiber whole grains and legumes and raw nuts too fruits.....one oof the biggest problems is the lack of fiber in meat and many don't eat enough fiber to process it through which leads to constipation which leads to reabsorbing of toxins.......

Robbie NO COMMENT...........

I'm not a moral vegetarian, I just choose not to eat meat because I simply don't like it. I have become more or less vegan for health reasons (lactose intolerance) which is a bit of a bummer but hey I feel a lot healthier I'm still quite naughty and eat the odd bit of chocolate though, I had some last night and boy am I paying the price this morning LOL

http://www.newstarget.com/000983.html

Red Meat cancer clue is found

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4662934.stm

Possible mechanism for the link between red meat and bowel cancer
http://www.mrc.ac.uk/public-press_31_jan_2006


And what does BM here have???

Neon:
"Human beings are designed to eat all sorts of food we have 4 teeth designed for tearing meat and therefore we shouldn't deny nature. There is no proof in the goodness of vegetarianism. and you moralisers who are vegetarians you have to kill plants to eat them."

I am still confused as to how so many of you think it is perfectly natural to eat meat. How about the way it is killed? If you are so caught up on what is "natural", then I'd like to see you stomach a killing floor. No animal deserves what is coming to them, and if you can understand animal cruelty, and you can feel pain, then you can understand it is wrong to kill these animals so inhumanely. It is nothing but ignorance if you can't see it's wrong, but ignorance is bliss, and in this case, a delicious steak on your plate.
I choose vegetarianism for health and moral reasons. Health, because I have done a lot of research, and the average human gets way too much protein in their diet anyway. I understand how extremely essential protein is to the human diet, and I'm sick of people using that as the backbone reason for why they eat meat. Maybe I can enlighten you..

Not all proteins are alike. Many different combinations of 20 amino acids can make up a protein, and those 20 form different proteins. While 10 of these animo acids can be made by the human body, the other 10 can't, and these essential amino acids can EASILY be supplied by a veggie diet. Only 10% of calories we take in need to be in the form of protein. Protein deficiency is very rare in North America, (unlike what we have been led to believe) and is generally diagnosed to people living in third world countries, or countries suffering from famine.
Also, eating too much animal protein has been DIRECTLY linked to kidney stones, cancers, and other serious problems, cancer being the most popular. Replacing animal protein with veggie protein eliminates these risks. I sometimes like to think that those who indulge in meat on an often and regular basis who later develop these problems are getting what's coming to them for indirectly causing suffering to the animals in factory farms. That's karma, baby.

About my moral issues on the topic. I am SO sick of hearing people say "you kill plants too!" Use your heads. Plants do not have a central nervous system. They do not feel pain. Yes, they are living, and yes, they do grow, but they do not understand pain, unlike animals, which are beings capable of thought and emotion, just like us. I thought that was pretty obvious. Also, as I quoted above:
"there is no proof in the goodness of vegetarianism"

Goodness? What do you mean by "goodness"? You mean the studies and experiments conducted proving that eating animal based diets lead to cancers? Or the fact that it means you don't support the slaughter of innocent animals? What more do you want? It's proven, it's done, it's a fact. And I'll back it up with many VERY reliable sources if you would like.
If any of you had to see what goes on, surely you would have a change of heart. I worked in a cattle sale barn for a couple of years, and I've seen some pretty brutal things.. Cows slipping on pavement and doing the splits, therefore breaking their hips. They'll still be dragged into the pen and sold by the pound, because if they are still alive, they're still worth money. These animals get SO frightened, I've seen them die after heart attacks from too much pain and fear. And that's not even the slaughter house. I hate to use this comparison, but think of the holocaust. People were jammed into a room, and killed. Once the first were killed, everyone panics.
Animals can smell fear. They know when they are going to die. When there is that much blood in the air, how could they not? If you've never seen a killing floor, you wouldn't know what I mean. But when they smell it, they know, and then they panic.
So then they get hung upside down by their hind legs, and get their throats slit, and their blood drained, all while they are alive. And you think this is natural? No. Going to the grocery store and buying that neatly packaged ground beef is what's natural to you. Society deems it natural, you're raised to think it's natural. But there is nothing about it that is, including what is pumped into it.
These animals are fed growth horomones, among other things, so that they can be killed younger to make a better profit. They make them so fat that they can barely walk, not to mention how painful it must be to not be able to sustain your own weight by your legs. Did I mention that when large animals stay on their sides for long periods of time, their insides crush?
Factory farmed animals are fed approx. twenty million lbs of antibiotics a year, which are designed to advance growth and prevent them from getting sick.. but which also are retained in their meat that people eat. Scientists believe that human antibiotics will be ineffective for meat eaters who become ill. (it's creating a resistance) Children who eat meat are also said to hit puberty and grow faster when they are meat-eaters from all the horomones they take in.

I understand that you CAN lead a healthy balanced omnivorous diet, but why would you if you can stop animal suffering, and also lead a healthy, delicious, and balanced herbivorous diet? Cows getting hung upside down getting their throats slit, pigs and chickens getting dunked in scalding water alive to loosen their skin, are deprived of life in steel cages for a short lifetime.. Even hens used for eggs are stuffed into tiny cages and get their nerve filled beaks seered off by a hot blade, so that when they go insane from all the stress of their extremely unnatural steel environment, they can't pluck out their feathers which causes them to bleed. Dairy cows are impregnated and then have their children taken away so that WE can steal their milk. How is that in ANY way natural? And do you know what those calfs are often used for? Veal. Mmmm! Baby Cow! The best of both worlds. Now we can drink their breast milk AND eat their offspring! I'm sorry but I just can't support that. Maybe you guys can, but I think animals are entitled to a real life, just as we are. I wouldn't eat my pet, and I wouldn't eat a pig... After all, pigs are said to have the intelligence of a 3-5 year old human... Would you eat your kid? What separates humans from animals? Language? Ignornace? Breed?
No breed deserves to watch their family die around them while they wait to be next in line.

Maybe long ago humans were meant to eat meat, but I truly feel we have advanced beyond that. There is NOTHING natural about eating meat in our day.

Those are carnivores, humans are not

Ok explain how the men that where poor and didnt have enough crops to grow...the rains rarely showed its face..how do you explain just how wrong it was for those men to go out and hunt for meat to feed their families???

I dont agree with blood sports...but I believe if people hunt animals for food its a different ball game...bare in mind the plants /veg you eat are also living things...you do have to kill them to eat them Name me one food item that we eat that doesnt have to come from an animal or be killed in order to eat??

My daughter loves meat as well as veg...its how she is and she is only 8 months old...so I'd dare say she was born likr that...her mom is the same

IMO we are designed to eat BOTH veg and meat

It takes 2,500 gallons of water, 12 pounds of grain, 35 pounds of topsoil and the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline to produce one pound of feedlot beef.

70% of US grain production is fed to livestock.

5 million acres of rainforest are felled every year in South and Central America alone to create cattle pasture.

Roughly 20% of all currently threatened and endangered species in the US are harmed by livestock grazing.

Animal agriculture is a chief contributor to water pollution.
America's farm animals produce 10 times the waste produced by the human population.

Scratch very articulate post welcome to UM

Its amazing how vegaterians/vegans look down on those who like to eat meat and the meat eaters look down on those who are against meat...kinna like the spitituality V's Skepticisim section same crap different game..

It human tendency to look down on those not like yourself, its the main cause of bigotry, hatred, war etc.

"Ok explain how the men that where poor and didnt have enough crops to grow...the rains rarely showed its face..how do you explain just how wrong it was for those men to go out and hunt for meat to feed their families??? hmm.gif

I dont agree with blood sports...but I believe if people hunt animals for food its a different ball game...bare in mind the plants /veg you eat are also living things...you do have to kill them to eat them yes.gif Name me one food item that we eat that doesnt have to come from an animal or be killed in order to eat??"

Actually, I felt I should have expressed my opinion on this matter...
If you need meat, and you kill it yourself, I'm ok with it. Natural meat isn't bad for you really. If you need it for health, or you need it to survive, hey, go RIGHT ahead. I would kill an animal for survival. But in western culture, I think you will find the majority of those who eat meat, eat it for taste.
And... as for naming something that you don't have to kill to eat... Nothing! Unless you enjoy eating rocks. It's the circle of life to kill what you eat. The point I am trying to make is that humans (in this day, age, and society) do not need to cause suffering to >animals< to remain perfectly healthy. SO - if we can stop suffering - why don't we?
I'm talking about today. Our culture. Our society. Our lives are fairly easy (talking about the majority) and we don't need to hurt these animals to satisfy our tastebuds.

If people are too poor to afford crops, they are likely too poor to afford meat at their local grocery store, and they would be killing the meat themselves. The animal they were eating likely didn't lead a deprived life in a steel cage, never seeing sunlight, eating antibiotics and growth horomones, so therefore it is acceptable. That I would deem as natural.
The problem I have is with the typical factory farmed meat.

Directed at Becky's Mom:
Also, just to add, I can see eye to eye with those who have a different opinion as me. I respect all views, and I think everyone is entitled to their opinion.
However, the ONE thing I could never understand, is how we can just allow animals to be treated so improperly and cruely, and think it's alright. Do none of you feel guilty, or taste the fear and pain in the meat? Whenever I eat a burger, all I can think is how a cow died a painful death so that I could eat this thing that isn't going to do my body any good. It died so that I could satisfy my tastes. I just think that if we don't need it, and we are doing it to delight our appetites, then we can stop it, and not kill these animals so savagely...
And that said, I am fine with people eating meat and don't give them hell. My friends all eat meat, as does my family. I just wish it wasn't this way.

and who says that we only eat animals that suffered and were treated badly or who said they dont care aobut the animals that are being held in bad conditions or that meat does not do a body any good? heres some things to remember when ever it is possibly i eat kosher or free ranged animals neither suffer in living or in death. next i do feel bad for the animals suffering as a zoologist i often read things about these conditions. the best thing any of us can do is call politions and alert the proper authorities on any places that are mistreating the animals. and u DO need proteins yes u can get them form plants yes u can liv off plants alone yes ok yes u can but at the same time it is easier for your body to recive thme from animal materials. for every piece of proof u show people shoudlnt eat meat and a full veggie diet is better there are ten more sayting a blanaced of mix food is better.

Hey hey! I learned how to quote.

So Robbieb, you mean to say to me that when you eat meat, you only eat meat that has been properly and humanely killed, and the animals were taken care of so they could live a healthy, proper, and natural life? Where did you find these places?
You are among the minority, and most meat eaters chow down at McDonalds, or buy their steaks at the local grocery store. It's more convenient for them.. I think I have made my point quite obvious and it was directed at those who support factory farming. I would also like to point out, that even if you eat free range, it does not mean it was killed humanely, and kosher does not mean that either.
Calling politicians will not solve anything. They are people too, and they support it. Unfortunately animals do not have any rights, and while domestic animal abuse is against the law (here in Canada anyway), it is rare that someone would be charged for beating their cow, and it would NEVER happen that they would be charged for inhumane slaughter of an animal for meat. After all, they aren't seen as living, they are seen as machines. (Again, speaking in generalizations)...
The problem is that grocery stores stock their meat from factory farms, and no one can do anything about it. All factory farms mistreat their animals, in my opinion.

Next up to the plate:
It is difficult for our bodies to digest meat. We are the only "omnivores" who have to cook our meat in order to eat it. The amino acids we get from plants are more easily digested than those of animals, and a veggie diet gives you adequate, but not excessive protein, and, as I've earlier said, too much animal proteins leads to health problems.
For those in disbelief:
http://www.vegsoc.org/info/protein.html
If you deem that unappropriate, I can give you other references.


And AGAIN! I am not saying that a well balanced healthy mixed omnivorous diet is less healthy than a vegetarian one. I am saying that if they are equally as healthy (which they pretty much are, as long as you keep track) then why don't we choose a vegetarian diet and stop animal suffering in factory farms?
Sorry for the long posts, but animals are very important to me.

Scratch very true on all your posts....


Robbie unless you are buying organic meat you are eating feedlot meat, all fast food industry with the exception of IN and Out Burger in the staes uses feedlot meat...actually the Us is very behind on alot of things we have the worst food supply as far as quality goes, many other countrys will not but from us......California produces the majority of the milk fo rthe western world and at this time today it contains a chemical called percholate which comes from polluted water which gets polluted by excrement form the cattle tons and tons of it flow intot he water supply...goggle percholate see what it does ......I can bet many don't know the devastation that meat eating does to the enviorment so that the meat industry can stay rich, read on the thread plant based diet it tells you just what cattle is doing, it is raping our rain forest, it is depleting our top soil, it has polluted our air and water..its a seriousissue....no one is saying never eat meat agin but do we have to heinously murder animals or destroy our planet inthe meantime, come on how good is the maet..the quality isn't good have you noticed how sick america is????have you asked why??how about the obesity problem ever wonder why so many peple are obese??????Are you aware of GMO's, how about Frankenfoods?????

first off the way an animal is killed is aprt of the reason it is kosher it is fast and as painless as can be. second i dont support anything that does harm to any animal that causes it to suffer. free range means just that it lives in fields and eat grasses and stuff so its not being downed steroids or anything like that. next the only cows depleating the rain forest are those that are not in america a solution? eat american meat.

dont even get me startedo n water supplies there is so much more in there to worry aobut then anything a cow is doing. espicaly for us guys.

hey fellas when women take birthcontrol pills there body only ingests 40% of the estrogen in them that means 60% is leaving the body and goin into the water. estrogen is not being filtered out because it pretty much cant be. thne when u drink water u intake estrogen ur body is not supposed ot have estrogen. its thne possible if u drink alot of tap water to develope more breast tissue and other chnges cna occur like reducing sperm count.

next a cow has the same impact on american grasslkands as buffalo they erode the ground the same way and eat the same part of the plants buffalo do and buffalo were in massive herd so the cows we have now arent innjuring our grasslands in fact they have taken the niche from buffalo and are possibly helping other naimls that depended on the buffalo.

as for americas health problem the problem isnt meat its processed food people aret ment to have twinkies and people are ment to be active. people are eating junk food and sitting on the butts. and obesity increases health problems not meat. so i have no idea what u wre trying to get at with that statment,

sorry robbie, but meat does carry associated health risks.

obesity, exercise, sugars, dairy, meat, processed foods are all issues but don't try to deflect the issues of meat elsewhere. At a MINIMUM you need to understand that meat is an acid forming food and therefore, if consumed, should be consumed in minimal amounts. Not all meats are equal either. Fat and cholestoral are both factors at play when you eat animal flesh.

We can eat meat. We have no need to eat meat as all nutrients can be obtained from plants. Add in the negative effects of meat (and i am talking meat itself, not the toxins found in meat because of how animals are raised) and there is no sound dietary argument for its consumption. That of course does not deny you the choice to eat meat, just as society has not denied people the choice of eating dairy or sugar. Remember your health should be of top concern to you, but it is not a concern of industry.

people need carbs to make us go meat provides us we some good carbs too. its foudn imbeded in the cells of the animal its healthy for us and we use it to get energy. and i have yet to see any sound proof of meat being bad for u. all u say is how its rasied well what does thay have to do with huter eating deer or anytihng. forget the horrible horrible farm rasied animals what aobut hunted deer whats i nthe that is so bad for u ?

robbie, i just told you 3 things that make it bad for you.

do you want more?

how about we add in the parasite issue with meat?

not a problem in all meat, once again u give us nouthing but circumstantial evidence. r stuf was not proof it was ur side of an argument. i want real proof i want to see an article from a real doctor not some baked hippie saying that plant diet is better then a balanced one

what do you really want, robbie?

are you denying meat is acid forming?
are you denying meat contains cholesterol?
are you denying the effects of animal fat?

these are all issues addressed by even those that recommend certian meats be consumed!

this is not "hippy" statements.

parasites, another REAL issue.

toxins, herbicides, pesticides, steroids, antibiotics, again REAL ISSUES.


eat whatever you want, but you do NOT need meat in your diet. A plant based diet is the optimal diet. If you eat for nutrition, you will be animal free. But as you have identified, this is not about nutrition and health, but about people's established habits and tastes.

u still didnt answer my statmenty of parasites get killed in the cooking process. not all meat containt steroids and the like. u need chelestrol yes ur body produces some but if u are healthy person u still need to take some in acid isnt bad for u infact it helps stomach acids. fat is neede in the body it insulated organs and helps maintain body temperature. u make claims about people as if everyone is fat. im not fat at all im in good health and i eat meat every day. i guarantee u i can lift more then u and if u think you can keep up with me in a karate class involving more thne 500 pushups sit ups and jumping jacks follwoed by a complelt ab work out including 6 inches and and thne ending with planks then good four u because very few can do it. now imagin doing 5 classes of that. (yea i teach karate and i made al lthe classes do it) my blood pressure is perfect my body weight is ideal i have the right amount of fat in my body to keep me healthy. (if u have no fayt inur body u have no glycogen to use when doing major workouts and ur organs are mre sepctabvle to injury due to lack of insulation)

the "real issue" is why u think everyone who eats meat is dieing heres an idea maby its the crap junk food people eat. i dont eat junk food but i do eat a steak im in perfect health im strong fast and smart. now look at people who arent fast strong or smart there usualy fat and now look at there diet there eating a ton of junk food. like pastries ice cream, twinkies thats the real issue.why do u think people back in the day who ate meat and plants and wored real jovs that were back breaking didnt have al these health risks? because things like twinkies didnt exhist or werent avaible to the masses.

where did i say "all meat eaters are fat"?

you are trying to deflect the health issues associated with meat by talking about other foods that carry their own issues.

stick with one topic at a time.

Did you consider that people ate LESS meat in the past than in the past century? As I have stated, there are associated health risks with meat, and as with any risk, the more you consume, the more risk you entail.

Now I do NOT know your health condition, obviously, but let me remind you on n=1. I could just as easily give you examples of atheletes that dropped dead of heart attacks in their prime that were internationally competative. In one case I am thinking of, MEAT did play a FACTOR in his heart failure. I am stressing factor because not everybody that eats meat will die of a heart attack in his/her thirties. Then again, not many actually are competative atheletes so it takes longer for the effects of diet to show. DO NOT FORGET GENETICS. THis is a game of chance. We control diet, we control exercise, we do not control genetics. Do not mistake your "perfect health" appearance to indicate your diet is perfect. Eat what you want, its your call.

Now as to parasites, one of the top killers of predators is parasites. As predicted, you raised cooking. Well, cooking does not kill all parasites. There is also the issue of correct cooking, which most people do not do. Overcooking has its own perils.

A basic rule is the longer something sits "rotting" in your intestines, the worse it is for you.

im not deflecting them im propely putting them where they bleong are utrying to say that a tewinkie based diet is better then one that includes meat? people in other centuries idndt eat less meat they ate the right amount of meat they hunted there food and they were in good health. there biggest killers were disease but we have prevented that with modern medciine for the most part. the food doesnt rot in your intestine jesus christ where do u geth this from it is broek down chemicly in your stomach and thne it is released into the intestine along with bile from the gal bladder made from the liver to help brek it down ever more and it is thne abosrbed as it traves threw. nouthing sits in your intesties for more then 24 hours. it would get pushed threw. thatl iek saying corn should sit in your intestine becuase u cant break it down. im notjustl ooking at genetics my dear. genetics doesnt stop you form being fat genetics is only a small part it is more aobut what u do people blame genetis for them being fat but nooo its not the fact they dont get off there ass and do something aobut it or eat a few less twinkies. i take an active stand against obesity and health problems i un i lift i o karate and i eat a blanaced diet. u eat leaves and nuts and berrie and fruit and drink juice and water.(and to think that plants dont have any acid in them is stupid too espicaly fruits)

Robbie there is no complex carbs in meat dude or fiber or several nutrients due to irridation and your bascially eating corn anyways, the goverment funds programs to kill off the wild life to protect the livestock...did you know that robbie...we kill off nature to support industry...You are what you eat and what many eat is corn, processed corn, maybe you should do alittle ecological detective work go behind the argricultural walls of cryptic secrecy and find out what you really are eating..........

That meat is often a putrid animal that has open sores who is kept in its own excrement for sometimes years who is scared to death, gets no freash air gets to smell its own sh** and piss for its life who has been turned into a cannibal ( its not unheard of the feed cows dead dogs and cats) and the only grain it gets is corn processed corn, then when its killed it may or may not of been stunned first and as long as the animal can breath no matter the condition it will get to the dinner table and thi sanimal will never know an ounce of kindness it will only know fear and you will eat that fear now lets talk on disease e-coli ever heard of it robbie??T
There are more, lots more guess what no antibiotics will treat these illnesses you know why because the animals have been so pumped full of antibiotics and steriods to get them big fast many support weight on broken bones pal....You eat this robbie go ahead bon appetie but you are what you eat and my question is how in kowing this are you okay with that???????

robbie,

is english your first language? I only ask because you seem to misunderstand what is being said.

firstly, I said acid forming, not acid. Acid forming foods are foods that cause a shift in your body's Ph level. Your body is naturally alkaline. Anything that shifts it to a more acidic state is stressful to the body.

secondly, I have never suggested eating twinkies is a healthy choice. I have concured with you that sugars, dairy, and processed foods are unhealthy choices. You seem to attempt to claim "meat is ok because sugar is worse". Incorrect approach. Sugar being worse does not make meat a wise dietary choice.

People didn't eat "the right amount of meat". They ate meat because that is what they had access to. We now have the knowledge that meat is not the best choice, and we do not need to catch animals for food due to our developments in farming. Do not try to use the "they did it many years ago" argument. It assumes we have not advanced in any way since whatever date you use and thus is faulty. Also, as you noted, people died younger "back then" and there were many more causes of death. An optimal diet was secondary to surviving all the other very real threats of the time. We have dealt with many of those threats very well (which also invalidates your "back then" argument). Now we are dealing with the dietary issues. Like it or not, meat is not an optimal food. It does present negative health side effects, and it does take longer to pass through your system than plants.

Thirdly, genetics is a major factor, period. I am not talking about your obsession with "the twinkie diet" either. I am talking about health risks that effect "healthy active people". I assure you that the one fellow I was thinking of that died at 34 of a heart attack was not "fat". He was an ironman triathelete, well recognized within the sport as one of the best.