I would also quickly like to add, that meat will be around for longer than we are around, and we need not worry about these things. Eating it is a personal decision that you have to make. You can choose to be ignorant to it, and surrender to your taste buds, but I hope you can all taste guilt when you swallow.
You know the animal you are eating led a deprived and painful life, and you know you are putting things into your body that shouldn't be there. You also know you would be healthier without it, and you know the arguments you give to support it are not very defendable. But! It tastes damn good.

we don't need meat to sustain us this the absurdity and yet people will swear up and down they need the protien, the qualityof the protien is very poor and what you eat you become just like the animal, they feed grain to a herbivore and wonder why so many are sick and fat and why heart disease is on the rise

Because of junk food full of fats and sugars. Not because of meat.

Balanced diet of Veggies, Breads and Meat. Mostly Chicken. Beef Occassionally.

That's what I have been saying...

The Problem with Protein

Many people refer to milk as liquid meat, for good reason.
Our children are taught in kindergarten that animal
protein consumption is essential for their good health.
Year after year that lie is reinforced with only one
side of the scientific story, and that is criminal.

Why do nations with the highest rates of bone
disease also have the highest milk consumption rates?
The highest rates of osteoporosis are to be found in
Denmark, Holland, Norway, and Sweden.

The Key to Bone Disease

It's not how much calcium you eat. It's how much calcium
you prevent from leaving your bones. Real science has
taught that dietary calcium plays little or no role in
preventing bone loss. Bone density is genetically
determined, and no amount of calcium will you into
a winning race horse or circus elephant (both, very'
powerful vegans).

Why Does Calcium Leave Bones?

There are 28 amino acids in nature. The human body
can manufacture 19 of them. The other nine are
called "essential." We must get them from the foods
we eat.

One of those "essential" aminos is methionine.

One needs methionine for many human metabolic
functions including digestion, detoxification of heavy
metals, and muscle metabolism. However, an excess
of methionine can be toxic.

Methionine = C-5, H-11, NO, S

Methionine is a great source for sulfur. That's the problem.
Rotten egg smells come from the high sulfur content. Imagine
rotten egg smell infusing into every cell of your body.

Eat foods containing too much methionine, and your blood
will become acidic. The sulfur converts to sulfates and weak
forms of sulfuric acid. In order to neutralize the acid, in its
wisdom, the body leaches calcium from bones.

"Dietary protein increases production of acid in the blood
which can be neutralized by calcium mobilized from the
skeleton." {American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1995; 61,4}

Animal proteins contain more methionine than plant
proteins. Let's compare cow's milk to soymilk:

Methionine in 100 grams of soymilk: .040 grams
Methionine in 100 grams of whole milk: .083 grams
Methionine in 100 grams of skim milk: .099 grams

Now, let's compare 100 gram portions of tofu to meat:
(All of the meat products are lean and without skin)

Silken soft tofu: .074 grams
Hamburger: .282 grams
Hard boiled egg: .392 grams
Roast ham: .535 grams
Baked codfish: .679 grams
Swiss cheese .784 grams
Roast chicken: .801 grams

In 1988, N.A. Breslau and colleagues identified the relationship
between protein-rich diets and calcium metabolism, noting that
protein caused calcium loss. His work was published in the
Journal of Clinical Endocrinology (1988;66:140-6).

A 1994 study published in the American Journal of Clinical
Nutrition (Remer T, Am J Clin Nutr 1994;59:1356-61) found
that animal proteins cause calcium to be leached from the
bones and excreted in the urine.

Additional Supporting Evidence

"Osteoporosis is caused by a number of things, one
of the most important being too much dietary protein."
{Science 1986;233, 4763}

"Even when eating 1,400 mg of calcium daily, one can lose
up to 4% of his or her bone mass each year while consuming
a high-protein diet." {American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
1979;32,4}

"Increasing one's protein intake by 100% may cause calcium
loss to double." {Journal of Nutrition, 1981; 111, 3}

"The average man in the US eats 175% more protein than the
recommended daily allowance and the average woman eats
144% more." {Surgeon General's Report on Nutrition and
Health, 1988}

"Consumption of dairy products, particularly at age 20 years,
were associated with an increased risk of hip fractures...
metabolism of dietary protein causes increased urinary
excretion of calcium." {American Journal of Epidemiology
1994;139}

Can it get worse? Absolutely.

The Framingham Heart Study is the largest and most
exciting heart study in the history of mankind. Some
of the highlights of this exhaustive 50 year study:

In 1960, Cigarette smoking was found to increase the risk
of heart disease.

In 1970, high blood pressure was found to increase the risk
of stroke.

During the 1980's, high levels of HDL cholesterol were found
to reduce risk of death from heart disease.

In the 1990's, homocysteines were identified as key factors
in heart attack deaths.

Homocysteines are normal breakdown products of
Methionine and are believed to exert a number of
toxic effects in the body.

Dr. Castelli has suggested that an elevated homocysteine
level is a risk factor for heart disease. The first evidence
of this was published in the American Journal of
Cardiology (Glueck, 1995;75:132–6).

Two recent publications resulting from Framingham data
indicate a positive correlation between cardiovascular disease
mortality and blood serum levels of homocysteine.

Bostom AG, et. al, Nonfasting plasma total homocysteine
levels and all-cause and cardiovascular disease mortality in
elderly Framingham men and women. Arch Intern Med
1999; 159:1077-1080.

Bostom A.G., et. al, Nonfasting plasma total homocysteine
levels and stroke incidence in elderly persons: the
Framingham Study. Ann Intern Med 131[5], 352-355, 1999.

Visit your local hospital and ask how many patients
occupy beds as a result of eating too little protein.
The answer will be zero. Then, if only you were able to
investigate each occupant, you would determine that his
or her stroke, heart attack, cancer, diabetes, etc, can
be traced back to a diet containing an overabundance of
dietary animal protein. America is the sickest, wealthiest
place to raise children, and we are doomed to invest
our assets in a ravenous health cars system that devours
dollars while continuously reinforcing pain.

Robert Cohen
http://www.notmilk.com

and no amount of calcium will you into
a winning race horse or circus elephant (both, very'
powerful vegans).

Robbie gone are the days of eating a mixed diet that is good for you

stop refering to eating meat as being the same as smoking. The problem with americas health is not meat it is perservatives in junk food. look at halthy people they dont eat junk food or if they do very little. but alot of thme eat meat and plants. now look at non helathy people most of them eat very little real food they eat nachos with cheese and stuffl iek that inplace of actualy meals. i eat 5 meals a day. its better on the digestion it boosts metabolisim and is the way to do it if you lift like me. im not saying meat sohuld be the bulk of your diet but im not saying there is a "need" to eliminate it. my grand parents smoked like chimnies ate meat pasta all that stuff there still alive and kicking at the ages of 86 and 84.

i agree 100% its more the junk people eat that will kill them before the meat will.

meat IS a "junk food".

sorry BM,

while the "processing" makes meat worse, the source carries with it its own set of risks. It is a junk food, which can easily be made worse. Its your choice to eat meat, just be aware of the health risks associated with even the "best of the best choice of cut from the best option animal, raised in the optimal conditons". There is no excaping it.

"moderation": the hope that the usage remains beneath some arbitrary safety threashold.

peopel need an income of it too sherri not a mssive amount but enough.

Robbie are you saying that the only way a person can derive a income is off of raping and pillaging animals and the planet, gee whiz a cow can't verbilize its outrage at the FACT it isn't even given what it should eat naturally the gov't has decided it knows best ...Well lets jsut say this i speak on behalf of the cow. ....You Robbie are out of the loop Major companys in the food industry are Filthy rich off of diseased meat and laughing all the way to the bank too....I for one don't find it very funny and have optimism that man could come up with a better system that wasn't killing people and the ecossystem.......

From 1936 almost until his death by suicide in 1945, Hitler was given daily injections of various commercially prepared tonics containing animal by-products including Glyconorm, an injectable compound containing vitamins B1, B2 and C, cardiac muscle, suprarenal gland, liver, and pancreas. Other injected preparations contained placenta, bovine testosterone and extracts containing seminal vesicles and prostate to combat depression.[12] Extracts from animal glands were popularly believed to be "elixirs of youth."
A bit of a contradiciton wouldn't you say. lol Vegetarins often eat meat and dairy...Vegan is NO animal what so ever lol.........You can't honestly beleive this guy cared for animals let alone his diet you can't beleive everything you goggle...lol

Oh, he was a vegetarian for his health as he had a stomach problem. So yes, he did care about his diet, quite a lot.

The fact still remains that Nazi Germany wanted to kill billions in and maximize the Earth's resources. Isn't that what part of being veggie or vegan is about, saving the earth?

mega,

I know of meat/dairy eaters that are unhealthy..... and I have sound scientific reasons for why I recommend people eliminate dairy, processed foods, and sugars from their diets. Meat is not necessary and the health benefits of eliminating it are well established but if you do choose to eat meat I recommend minimizing the amount, and be selective in the source (i discussed which meats are better choices in another thread).

The point is that too many people do not focus on what they DO eat. Eating a nutritionally complete diet takes effort and knowledge.

However, I must say, dairy shouldn't be cut out.

And meat, during growing years, should be eaten a lot, if I remember my cooking courses at school.

How does eating meat kill people again?

As for the ecossystem, it uses more energy then veggies does but you know what? It's really a matter of choice.

Let me see... Hilter wanted to kill off humans and maximize Earth's resources for his plan, and you know what, Hilter was also a vegaterian. I mean, his plan would have been great for the planet, but tell that to the 6 million Jews that died along with the millions of soldiers.

Much American dairy products contain rBGH

Nope, this is false.

What I said, was that my girlfriend didn't have a balanced diet.
To be a vegetarian, you really need to know what to do. You can't just make up your own diet, and hope it works.

She's going to the doctor, and she's gunna get some dietary tips soon

Could you point me to your scientific whatchamamagic, sayign that we should cut dairy and sugars out of our diet?
I might need to improve mine.

However, I must say, dairy shouldn't be cut out.
And meat, during growing years, should be eaten a lot, if I remember my cooking courses at school.
Sugars give us energy, and as long as you're not silly with it, you should be able to eat it.

Cutting something completely from your diet is silly.
Unless it's like.. solid fat or something.

Everything is healthy in moderation.