Okay, anyone who dismisses the expert logic from a doctor concerning health is in my book an idiot. Your an Idiot Sher Beri.
I go to one of the finiest Hospital's in the U.S. and I seriously can not comprehend the words coming out of a seeminly intelligent person as yourself claiming all of these things as fact. What your doing to uninformed people is criminal.
I can't speak to you.
Good-luck with your life.
I hope the readers please listen to their doctor's.
" guess you missed this post Bex.......the research is out there, you are saying htings taht are in error, you do not need meat you choose to eat meat..unless you go to a nutritonist a 'doctor' isn't a nutritionist"
I'm going to tell my Doctor exactly what you said and I am postive you will be laughed at - idiot.
Full Version: Vegaterians
QUOTE(Bex @ Jun 8 2006, 06:01 PM) [snapback]1224070[/snapback]
Okay, anyone who dismisses the expert logic from a doctor concerning health is in my book an idiot. Your an Idiot Sher Beri.
I go to one of the finiest Hospital's in the U.S. and I seriously can not comprehend the words coming out of a seeminly intelligent person as yourself claiming all of these things as fact. What your doing to uninformed people is criminal.
I can't speak to you.
Good-luck with your life.
I hope the readers please listen to their doctor's.
" guess you missed this post Bex.......the research is out there, you are saying htings taht are in error, you do not need meat you choose to eat meat..unless you go to a nutritonist a 'doctor' isn't a nutritionist"
I'm going to tell my Doctor exactly what you said and I am postive you will be laughed at - idiot.
Bex you aren't the first nor the last person who is looking in the face of conditionings and constructs as imposed upon us by corporations who care more for the bottom line then your health, if you have something to counter please share , but all emotional issues have to be taken up in PM and UM frowns on name calling......
They kinda want us to be mature 
I know, I know i too falter but its the rules.....
This seems to be an ongoing thing withyou Sheri. Are you taking the hint yet ?, or is it the majority who you seem to be offending who are wrong ?.
i have been to other web sites and never saw such a battle take place over eating meat verses non eating meat.
most people are raised thinking religion and eating meat are a good idea . but the tide is slowing turning .
10 years ago i was like most people here but glad im over such propaganda .
most people are raised thinking religion and eating meat are a good idea . but the tide is slowing turning .
10 years ago i was like most people here but glad im over such propaganda .
Uncle john, it does seem to incite and challenge peoples constructs and conditionings...i have been like that too on some things...you are indeed correct religion is a huge button too....I ruffled alot of feathers on the srelgious thread too.....My ideas aren't mainstream i can understand they are considered radical...esepcially in a society that justs excepts the status quo.....I have no qulams with ones choices and and am not bothered by disagreement actually it makes for an interesting conversation...
Hard as it may be to believe, there are 'Vegans' far more fanatical than Sheri in their viewpoints, and yes, you are lucky they haven't posted here. There was a member several years ago who openly vilified and denigrated anyone who declared their love of meat, so count your blessings.
It would be appreciated if everyone would refrain from spouting derogatory comments and/or personal insults, if you disagree with someone's opinion keep the remarks civil. It would also be wise to keep discussions concerning health benefits minimalized or referenced in more general terms as no one here has the proper qualifications to render medical advise. Promoting 'awareness' is fine, however, over emphasizing the 'miraculous' health benefits of a specific life style is potentially dangerous and ill advised.
Thank you for your cooperation.
MM
It would be appreciated if everyone would refrain from spouting derogatory comments and/or personal insults, if you disagree with someone's opinion keep the remarks civil. It would also be wise to keep discussions concerning health benefits minimalized or referenced in more general terms as no one here has the proper qualifications to render medical advise. Promoting 'awareness' is fine, however, over emphasizing the 'miraculous' health benefits of a specific life style is potentially dangerous and ill advised.
Thank you for your cooperation.
MM
QUOTE(Bex @ Jun 8 2006, 12:40 PM) [snapback]1223465[/snapback]
I would like to say that with the population here on UM being a mixed diverson of people ranging from assorted ages; you should Sheri Berri, have stated in the beginning of your thread that you are not a Doctor. You are giving wrong advise to people and you could eventually harm them with your beliefs of the Vegetarian lifestyle. All of my doctor's would never recommend a vegetarian diet because human meed meat for our muscle and nerves to perform properly. What we need is a well-balanced diet which includes meat and dairy.
Meat and dairy also do not produce sugar like some vegetables and fruits.
Young people, older people all people need and benefit having protein-rich meats and dairy in their diets.
Please don't take what this unqualified individual named Sher Beri has to say to heart. Listen only to medical professionals at all times when dealing with your health.
Fair enough:
Doctor Group recommends Vegan diet
The American Journal of Medicine has published a weight loss study by Doctors with the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM), which claims that a vegan-style diet promotes weight loss and improves insulin sensitivity.
QUOTE(Avinash_Tyagi @ Jun 8 2006, 09:52 PM) [snapback]1224358[/snapback]
Fair enough:
Doctor Group recommends Vegan diet
The American Journal of Medicine has published a weight loss study by Doctors with the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM), which claims that a vegan-style diet promotes weight loss and improves insulin sensitivity.
Very interesting study Avin thanks for posting I learned alot.....
.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 8 2006, 11:47 PM) [snapback]1223287[/snapback]
good grief mega,
now your fishing for validity for meat consumption in the past.
This denys the very real current research on the effects of meat on health. Humans are capable of eating meat, but it is not our optimal food source. We thrive much better without it.
If you want to draw on mythology or ancient ancestory, are you next going to introduce arguments for the validity of stoning people to death, or for abandoning modern language
.You don't get it....?
Okay, you tell me why ancient man ate meat.
Also tell me why meat seems to be the new cigarette,
And why the government aren't warning us that meat is bad for us.
Over here, they're actually telling us to eat more of it, as a lot of Aussies don't get enough!
QUOTE(Megalomania @ Jun 8 2006, 10:42 PM) [snapback]1224411[/snapback]
You don't get it....?
Okay, you tell me why ancient man ate meat.
Also tell me why meat seems to be the new cigarette,
And why the government aren't warning us that meat is bad for us.
Over here, they're actually telling us to eat more of it, as a lot of Aussies don't get enough!
Meglo you mean to tell me your meat doesn't have handling instructions on It???also a little tag that tells you its irridated????No other country is more unconcerned or blase than America i can't beleive yours would be as bad......We haven't banned certain vaccines that other countrys have , we haven't banned the use of antibiotics and hormones in feedlots and we haven't banned feeding dead animal parts back to the animal.....Look into the food laws that govern your country...
why is meat the new tobacco due to the curret method of producing and treating animals pumping them full of hormones, i have started alot of threads with good info, links etc breaking it down on the carginogens in meat read the pathogens thread.... I fyo uare eating feed lot you are eating a product that is not good for you ...but don't take our word for anyhting do your own research look into all sides go to a feedlot yourself learn to read labels know whats in things then you decide and let me know of your findings..
In New Zealand a member of green party member of Parliament has introduced a consumer Right to know bill to help consumers identify what is in food items they purchase...The bill will guarentee the consumer the right to know whats in the food and where it comes from....GE's ingrediants are not declared on labels, there is no indication or where most fresh items come from, this is a fact i have had to do serious detective work finding out how to trace things i took a class on it now its easier...labels are misleading and confusing especially when you don't know the laws and ingrediants, which are different from advertising to written...i say one should know the food laws it accounts for a lot of B.S. on the coprorations part wall street pillaging the ignorant middle America thing..........Other countrys such as Europe have access to this info...In america and new Zealand most don't have to be declared....I can understand one may notbe up to the vegan lifestyle but to have no interest in the food they eat and to get pissed at people who fight for these rights for you ......I take what I put into my body very seriously as it will be me one day and i want to know and have the right to safe food supply....sheesh.....
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Jun 9 2006, 04:38 PM) [snapback]1224478[/snapback]
Meglo you mean to tell me your meat doesn't have handling instructions on It???also a little tag that tells you its irridated????No other country is more unconcerned or blase than America i can't beleive yours would be as bad......We haven't banned certain vaccines that other countrys have , we haven't banned the use of antibiotics and hormones in feedlots and we haven't banned feeding dead animal parts back to the animal.....Look into the food laws that govern your country...
I'll do that.
QUOTE(Megalomania @ Jun 8 2006, 10:42 PM) [snapback]1224411[/snapback]
You don't get it....?
Okay, you tell me why ancient man ate meat.
Also tell me why meat seems to be the new cigarette,
And why the government aren't warning us that meat is bad for us.
Over here, they're actually telling us to eat more of it, as a lot of Aussies don't get enough!
How about you tell me why advances in knowledge should even be persued when according to your approach we have no need for such knowledge. We should just do as was done in the past mindlessly.
Look how long it took for governments to admit tobacco was bad for you. There are issues of protecting the economy and protecting the government from liability.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 9 2006, 06:05 AM) [snapback]1224672[/snapback]
How about you tell me why advances in knowledge should even be persued when according to your approach we have no need for such knowledge. We should just do as was done in the past mindlessly.
Look how long it took for governments to admit tobacco was bad for you. There are issues of protecting the economy and protecting the government from liability.
I just recently watched a 60 minutes one of those show anyways it was about second hand smoke that as americans we were taking it too seriously that really there is not evidence for such hysteria... this was a few weeks ago......clearly the tobacco company is feeling the heat, we just passed a no smoking on the beaches....... the tobacco company the health care industry the pharmecuticals and the gov't are making a mint off the dangers of smoking why would they want to jsut throw inthe towel????Capitailism isn't about heart or concern its about money and if you lose a few along the way oh well thats to be expected....why is it a infringment of anothers rights to not only poison themselves but me too?????We actually fight over these things, why is this a fight i ask?????
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 9 2006, 11:05 PM) [snapback]1224672[/snapback]
How about you tell me why advances in knowledge should even be persued when according to your approach we have no need for such knowledge. We should just do as was done in the past mindlessly.
Look how long it took for governments to admit tobacco was bad for you. There are issues of protecting the economy and protecting the government from liability.
During the course of evolution, the evolved betters itself.
If we ate meat while evolving, and continued throughout evolution, it obviously isn't a bad decision.
Nature provides animals with what they need to live.
The necessities.
If it provided us with a meat and plant diet, that's obviously the best course.
If meat was unhealthy, nature would have gotten us off it a long time ago.
Now, cigarettes. They have been around for around 2 centuries. In the last half century, they were proven to be bad for you.
That's 1.5 centuries where they were around, but weren't known to be bad.
Compared to the 1.9 or so million years that we've been eating meat, and it's been acceptable...
I think that if meat was bad for you, we would have figured it out quite a while ago
QUOTE
I think that if meat was bad for you, we would have figured it out quite a while ago
really?
It takes doing the research to determine the real effects of something. The amount of time is not relevant. You could say we have evolved to the point where we are capable of understanding how to construct an optimal diet.
The ability to eat meat to survive provides one more source of sustinance should it be necessitated. It does not mean that meat is a good food source for us. You need to differentiate between the ability to eat something and the benefits that are derived from eating it.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 11 2006, 12:14 AM) [snapback]1226052[/snapback]
really?
Obviously you don't understand evolution.
And I'm not going to bother explaining it.
Try www.google.com
no, mega, it is you that is failing to understand.
How about YOU actually learn the differences between how meat is eaten today compared to in the past. How about YOU learn the difference between thrive and survive.
or
You can just keep fishing around for whatever excuses you can find to justify to yourself the way you eat. Denial is such a .......
How about YOU actually learn the differences between how meat is eaten today compared to in the past. How about YOU learn the difference between thrive and survive.
or
You can just keep fishing around for whatever excuses you can find to justify to yourself the way you eat. Denial is such a .......
!You said thrive and survive!
So I'm supposed to compare the way we eat meat to survive or prosper.
I take it that you mean we ate meat to survive back 1.9 million years.
And now we only use it to grow and prosper.
Wow. So much for telling me that meat is unhealthy.
--------
I don't need to justify the way I eat.
I don't care if you think my diet sucks.
wow mega
the capability to consume a vast array of foods helps to protect an animal from suffering from starvation. That does not say which foods provide the best benefits to the body, but says the the body can make use of a many different sources to get by. Humans are capable of consuming meat. No one has ever denied this. A small percentage of the human diet was meat in the past. However, what you seem to have difficulty with is that research shows that there are health risks associated with meat consumption. Now if you lived 5000 years ago (to pick any number) there would have been a number of risks to your survival not present today that would have been outweighed by the immediate threat of starvation in the short term. Today, we can eliminate these risks, and have done so. Now we have come to better understand our own biology and how be can minimize the diet related health risks.
Now is that clear enough for you?
And apprently you do seem to care about what people think of your diet or you would not keep coming into the vegitarian and milk threads posting nonsense arguments to defend your dietary choices. What will be your next one? "Santa Claus left me a beef jerky stick so meat must be good for me"
the capability to consume a vast array of foods helps to protect an animal from suffering from starvation. That does not say which foods provide the best benefits to the body, but says the the body can make use of a many different sources to get by. Humans are capable of consuming meat. No one has ever denied this. A small percentage of the human diet was meat in the past. However, what you seem to have difficulty with is that research shows that there are health risks associated with meat consumption. Now if you lived 5000 years ago (to pick any number) there would have been a number of risks to your survival not present today that would have been outweighed by the immediate threat of starvation in the short term. Today, we can eliminate these risks, and have done so. Now we have come to better understand our own biology and how be can minimize the diet related health risks.
Now is that clear enough for you?
And apprently you do seem to care about what people think of your diet or you would not keep coming into the vegitarian and milk threads posting nonsense arguments to defend your dietary choices. What will be your next one? "Santa Claus left me a beef jerky stick so meat must be good for me"
Ah yes, I do know that there are health risks.
There is risk of disease and other such things.
However, there are measures taken to descrease the risks.
However, that is not what we're arguing about.
You're saying that meat is unhealthy, and that people function better without it.
Your irrelevant chatter does you no favours, neither do your assumptions.
------
Your assumption is that I come here to defend my beliefs.
Untrue.
Why would anyone, come to defend their beliefs?
In my opinion, that's the worst way to argue.
Put yourself in the defensive, and hope they don't have any good attacks?
Often, if something catches an offensive party's attention, they know enough about the subject to give you a good shake.
Not a great stance.
There is risk of disease and other such things.
However, there are measures taken to descrease the risks.
However, that is not what we're arguing about.
You're saying that meat is unhealthy, and that people function better without it.
Your irrelevant chatter does you no favours, neither do your assumptions.
------
Your assumption is that I come here to defend my beliefs.
Untrue.
Why would anyone, come to defend their beliefs?
In my opinion, that's the worst way to argue.
Put yourself in the defensive, and hope they don't have any good attacks?
Often, if something catches an offensive party's attention, they know enough about the subject to give you a good shake.
Not a great stance.
yes, I have said people function better without meat and dairy.
I have said meat carries associated health risks that need not be taken given all nutritional needs can be met on a plant-based diet.
I have said that the optimal human diet is plant based.
Sheri has gone into detail on how herbicides, pesticides, steroids, and hormones found in meat are a health risk.
You have replied with comments like "i loaded on milk and went to my doctor who said I am fine...." or "if meat is bad why did jesus feed it to.....".
The #1 measure to decrease the risks is to not eat meat and dairy (or at least minimize your consumption of meat, and be selective about what meats you eat and their sources).
"Your irrelevant chatter does you no favours, neither do your assumptions. "
a rather interesting comment from one that has provided nothing but irrelevant chatter.
I have said meat carries associated health risks that need not be taken given all nutritional needs can be met on a plant-based diet.
I have said that the optimal human diet is plant based.
Sheri has gone into detail on how herbicides, pesticides, steroids, and hormones found in meat are a health risk.
You have replied with comments like "i loaded on milk and went to my doctor who said I am fine...." or "if meat is bad why did jesus feed it to.....".
The #1 measure to decrease the risks is to not eat meat and dairy (or at least minimize your consumption of meat, and be selective about what meats you eat and their sources).
"Your irrelevant chatter does you no favours, neither do your assumptions. "
a rather interesting comment from one that has provided nothing but irrelevant chatter.
Wow did i actually read that You Hyper have no understanding of evolution????I Remeber zero???Anyhoo not ot get off topic......
Meglo, You could actually learn alot if you wre open...Hands down Hyper is one of the finest minds on UM
Hyper i felt the your statement we have evolved to understand nutriton was a very good way to look at things I'll remeber that...
Meglo, You could actually learn alot if you wre open...Hands down Hyper is one of the finest minds on UM
Hyper i felt the your statement we have evolved to understand nutriton was a very good way to look at things I'll remeber that...
People function better on plant based foods, ones diet should be mostly plant based, With light meats, Personally i would suggest fish. Unfortunatly our world we have created is an abominashion, you can never know wether the things you eat are healthy or not, wether it says they are, you still can never know. Personally my faverite diet is bannans, penut butter, fish, and milk, i drink protien powder too. But if i didnt have the protien powder, what plants could i get it from? perhaps nuts, and fish.
QUOTE(avatar186 @ Jun 11 2006, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1227338[/snapback]
People function better on plant based foods, ones diet should be mostly plant based, With light meats, Personally i would suggest fish. Unfortunatly our world we have created is an abominashion, you can never know wether the things you eat are healthy or not, wether it says they are, you still can never know. Personally my faverite diet is bannans, penut butter, fish, and milk, i drink protien powder too. But if i didnt have the protien powder, what plants could i get it from? perhaps nuts, and fish.
Avatar everything has protien it's darn near impossible to be deficient in protien, not even in a third world country...Also the standards set for protien requirements are set way to high and the research seems to be in too much protien causes alot of health issues....Be very careful on following the 'high protien ' diet claims.....welcome to UM.....
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 12 2006, 01:10 AM) [snapback]1227147[/snapback]
"Your irrelevant chatter does you no favours, neither do your assumptions. "
a rather interesting comment from one that has provided nothing but irrelevant chatter.
Seemed perfectly logical to me.
QUOTE(Nxt2Hvn @ Jun 8 2006, 09:41 PM) [snapback]1223748[/snapback]
Sherri -
Another question..
Have you ever tried quorn? I haven't .. but my vegetarian friend in Scotland loves it... and uses it in everything.
Actually its really big over here.....Linda McCartneys QUORN collections...the burgers ect are really nice...a lot (and I mean a lot) of vegans & vegeterians eat it over here..its popular
I am surprized some here havent tried it.....
Quorn Receipes
What is QUORN??
Vegan Quorn Muffins!!!
tofu is our version of it i suppose......I haven't seen it where I shop....
In Australia, we have chicken, that is actually just a bunch of chemicals made to imitate chicken.
I don't know how many people would buy that though...
Doesn't sound very healthy.
I don't know how many people would buy that though...
Doesn't sound very healthy.
QUOTE(Megalomania @ Jun 13 2006, 05:56 AM) [snapback]1229250[/snapback]
In Australia, we have chicken, that is actually just a bunch of chemicals made to imitate chicken.
I don't know how many people would buy that though...
Doesn't sound very healthy.
Dont knock it till you try it
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 13 2006, 08:01 PM) [snapback]1229416[/snapback]
Dont knock it till you try it
True, but as I said. Artificial chemicals can't be good.
(Meant in a figurative sense, not literal. So no-one bother to post up all of the healthy artificial chemicals )
im a omnivore i cant go without meat but are you not really a meat eater when you eat a apple or vegtable. Plants are living creatures so when you bite into it are you not biting into its flesh. Hoe do you know it does not experience pain when you eat it.
QUOTE(chaoszerg @ Jun 13 2006, 08:53 PM) [snapback]1229437[/snapback]
im a omnivore i cant go without meat but are you not really a meat eater when you eat a apple or vegtable. Plants are living creatures so when you bite into it are you not biting into its flesh. Hoe do you know it does not experience pain when you eat it.
If I remember correctly, it's the lack of nerves
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Jun 11 2006, 08:11 PM) [snapback]1227332[/snapback]
Wow did i actually read that You Hyper have no understanding of evolution????I Remeber zero???Anyhoo not ot get off topic......
Meglo, You could actually learn alot if you wre open...Hands down Hyper is one of the finest minds on UM
Hyper i felt the your statement we have evolved to understand nutriton was a very good way to look at things I'll remeber that...
Umm does he have one of the finests minds on UM cuz he agrees with you on certain topics such as...................this one??
I am not saying he dont have a great mind..no not at all but if he disagreed with you...would you be as keen to say that??
Look Sheri...you preach like a religious person does with their bible......when it comes to food and drink ...which is fine...but when it comes to stuff like this...just becuase YOU is dead against it and is a plain out right health fanatic ( like an extremist christian lol) ...thats it...if you dont agree with it...its haevy preaching all the way....thats why people find it all rude...thats why you get into tight spots....there is NO CALL for it Sheri......its like I say to religious folks...quit trying to push your beliefs on to others.....Sheri sweetie that's what you are doing....
I understand you are taking a stand for what you believe in and I ADMIRE you for it...but girl you paint a pic of someone that looks down on those who eat meat...drink alchol...smoke a ciggy...eat junk food...ect....you give me the impression you are looking down on me too......only person I see agreeing with you is Hyper....good for him
You take frogfish, me and a few others on here...we like to eat meat...we dont go over the top...we dont preach meat is better than veg or fruit....we dont look down on others who dont eat it...we dont sould like junk food fanatics...girly you are what is known as a health fanatic...one of these days you will do yourself harm...and thats something I DONT WANT TO SEE...NO...I luvies you as a friend...but girl CHILL IT with the preaching..you have turned into something you detest...(much like the extremists) a preacher...preaching the health bible if you will
You told me Hyper was a skinny guy...you too I imagine are rather skinny...THIS IS WHY!!! Over doing it....geee girl please try and stop the OTT health crap....you need food that will give you strenth too....veg aint going to do that alone now is it??...You need a lil meat on your bones..you can still look great with a bit more shape...you go to the GYM..more times than a christian would pray
slow the heck down chick please for your own good
Well said, Becky 
QUOTE(Shadowdrake @ Jun 13 2006, 09:08 PM) [snapback]1230100[/snapback]
Well said, Becky
Thank you....but it was constructive..not getting at her...hope she see's that....Cuz I know people on here do not go out of their way to get at her as a personal issue...NO...they get at her for the way she preaches and it looks as though she is looking down at them...I have read through all the posts to see this!! I am a fellow berri but hey I can read ya know!!
PS I am Beckys mom LOL I wish my real name was Becky lol call me BM if you like
Megalomania wrote:
If I remember correctly, it's the lack of nerves
lol well that does it for me thanks
i will shut up now haha
If I remember correctly, it's the lack of nerves
lol well that does it for me thanks
i will shut up now haha
QUOTE
You told me Hyper was a skinny guy.
I am "skinny" because I am an ectomorph.
QUOTE
you need food that will give you strenth too....veg aint going to do that alone now is it?
yes. yes it does.
QUOTE
You need a lil meat on your bones.
I don't know about sheri, but I have meat on my bones. That is meat=muscle.
I think if we eat plant and meat and try not to consume more than is needed. and eat just the right amount and keep ourselves fit we would be in great shape and health. Thats my opinion anyway but i dont think that just eating vegtables is just plain healthy and kinda preaching that just eating vegtables is the right way to go and eating meat is unhealthy, and wrong if you want to keep healthy is kinda like preaching that god or the devil is the greatest thing since sliced bread and that anyone who follows the opposite of which ever one that is supposed to be the greatest is deluded and wrong. But if your opinion is that greens are much more healthy than meat then you are intitled to your opinion and i respect that i just hope you dont mind anyone else commenting on your opinion and thinking it wrong.
Have any opinion you want.
As they say, opinions are like a particular part of the anatomy. Everybody has one.
Now, if you want to get into the research on the topic, that is another story. All I have ever put forth is for people to have the information. What you do with it is your business. I am a teacher, not a preacher.
As they say, opinions are like a particular part of the anatomy. Everybody has one.
Now, if you want to get into the research on the topic, that is another story.
All I have ever put forth is for people to have the information. What you do with it is your business. I am a teacher, not a preacher.
Here is something I found on vegan and vegatarian diets that could cause eating disorders. Scary!!!
Unhealthy focus on healthy eating?
By Sharon Goldman Edry
When Jill Meyer eats dinner at a friend's house, she usually brings her own meal even when it's not potluck. That's because she can't eat any food that has meat or fish in it. Or dairy. Or eggs. Or food that's nonorganic, processed or canned. Or anything cooked.
"I've been eating only raw foods for the past two months," Meyer said. "People don't know how to accommodate me, so either I just eat salad or I bring my own food." She may be a demanding dinner guest, but the 31-year-old Buffalo, New York woman said her new lifestyle is healthier and more natural. She also finds it hard to argue against the 24 pounds she's lost. "I was shocked beyond belief when I got on the scale."
Picky eating seems to be the latest diet trend and in some cases, people are taking food denial way past The Zone, a low-carbohydrate, high-protein regimen that requires adherents to eat a daily diet that's 40 percent carbohydrates, 30 percent proteins and 30 percent monounsaturated fats. While many fussy eaters claim to eat only certain foods for health reasons, some psychologists worry that this type of eating is another name for extreme and unhealthy dieting.
"Restricted eating can be a socially acceptable rationalization for those attempting to lose weight," said psychologist and eating disorder specialist Elizabeth Carll, Ph.D., of Long Island, New York. "It would appear rather rigid to not eat so many different things in order to be thin, but it's hard to argue with it if you say you're doing it for health reasons."
Health has become a far more worthy obsession than being preoccupied with fitting into a size 2. For Ellen Montague, a 41-year-old therapist from Fort Collins, Colorado, what began as a vegetarian diet soon turned into a wholesale ban of wheat, sugar, tomatoes, cheese and corn. She told herself and others that she was avoiding these foods due to allergies, but she finally realized that her limited eating was really just a diet in disguise.
"As I got older I started to worry more about gaining weight," she said. "And somehow I made the connection between eliminating foods and not getting fat."
Extreme habits
After reading Health Food Junkies: Overcoming the Obsession With Healthy Eating by Steven Bratman, M.D., Montague said she realized that her eating habits bordered on the extreme.
In the book, Bratman asserts that for some, fixating on eating "healthy" or "pure" foods definitions vary can become a dangerous obsession, which he calls orthorexia nervosa. He agrees that weight loss is a common hidden agenda among female orthorexics. Vegans, raw foodists and macrobiotic followers are often very thin, he explains, so losing weight can almost be considered a side effect. "You can pretend you're above the notion of dieting by saying you're interested only in 'healthy' foods," he explains, but you can still live up to the skinny image you seek.
Some women, however, feel no need to hide their intent they welcome the constraints that come with restrictive regimens, saying that the easy-to-remember dos and don'ts simplify weight management.
"It's almost like an automatic weight-loss mechanism," said 24-year-old Katy Morrison, a Berkeley, California-based public relations coordinator who's been a vegan going without eggs, dairy, meat or fish for several months and a vegetarian for more than a year. While she follows the diet for ethical and health reasons, she said it also helps her rein in one of her passions: chocolate. "I have a real sweet tooth, but I'm always trying to stay in shape. So not being allowed to eat chocolate chip cookies or cake anymore makes it really easy."
Some dieters are also drawn to dropping foods from their diets because of the overwhelming success rate. Studies show that vegans can lose an average of 20 pounds, said Neal Barnard, M.D., a clinical nutrition researcher, author and expert on vegetarian and vegan diets.
And results of small-scale studies show that people who adopt raw-food diets often experience dramatic weight loss.
But almost any diet that rejects entire food groups will lead to weight loss if calories are cut, said registered dietitian Edith Hogan, a spokeswoman for the American Dietetic Association.
"It depends on what the person was eating before," Hogan said. If your typical daily intake was a combination of McDonalds burgers and Ben & Jerry's ice cream and you switch to Sugarbusters!, a popular low-carbohydrate diet, you'll probably lose weight, she said.
Health risks
So is there anything wrong with a restrictive eating lifestyle to slim the waistline? Are these diets nutritionally sound, or are people putting their health at risk?
While experts are reluctant to discourage any habits that promote eating more fruits, vegetables and whole grains, they agree that structured diets can be taken too far. Fussy eating isn't an eating disorder, but people need to be careful that they don't take it to the extreme.
No matter what reason lies behind eliminating vitamin-packed foods such as meat, fish, dairy and eggs, dietitians say people's nutrition can suffer as a result. "It can be hard to get all the right nutrients on these diets, including calcium, magnesium, B-12 and folic acid," Hogan said.
While fruits and vegetables contain plenty of nutrients, people on such restrictive diets may have to eat more to get the required amounts. The demanding nature of some regimens may make eating a balanced diet difficult, although Hogan concedes that it can be done if people do their homework. "You have to learn to substitute things, but it's not just a matter of throwing in a few pieces of tofu," she said. "You have to pay particular attention every single day."
Montague, who's eating meat again, said relaxing her eating habits was a good move: "I don't want to spend my life worrying about food."
So how can you tell whether you're going overboard with fussy eating habits? If you answer "yes" to any of these questions, you might have a problem:
Do you avoid social situations because of your eating lifestyle?
"Diets can cross the line if they interfere with daily living; if your diet controls your behavior," Dr. Carll said. "If you refuse to go to parties, to go out to dinner, to go out with your boyfriend, that can become problematic. Food shouldn't run your life."
Do you spend more than three hours a day thinking about healthy food?
"Life is meant for joy, love, passion and accomplishment," Dr. Bratman said. "Life is too short to be spent thinking about how healthy or unhealthy your diet is, so if you find yourself regularly joyous about zucchini, in love with raw-grain pizza or proud of your ability to eat nothing but brown rice, your priorities are out of place."
Are you constantly in search of the ultimate healthy diet?
There's no ultimate healthy diet, Dr. Carll said. "A search for this kind of perfection is doomed to failure. Many of the people I find who adhere to such rigid regimens of dietary intake are perfectionists and obsessive compulsive by nature. Certain personalities are attracted to this type of eating, because they can feel vulnerable if they're out of control."
Is your diet getting stricter?
Orthorexia tends to escalate, Dr. Bratman said. "The diet of yesterday may not be pure enough for tomorrow. Over time, the rules governing eating get more rigid. Some macrobiotic followers will soon only eat brown rice. Or those convinced they have food allergies will cut out everything except turkey and rice. But after a certain point, no happiness or health comes from this increased strictness."
Are you adhering to your strict diet to maintain an inappropriately low weight?
"If your goal is to lose 10 pounds and then after you lose it, you reset your goal for another 10, that's an issue it's a matter of degree," Dr. Carll said, noting that these eating lifestyles don't cause anorexia or other eating disorders. "The precursor to developing an eating disorder is a diet that goes too far, no matter what the diet." For example, while there's a high incidence of veganism and vegetarianism among anorexics who may choose the diets for their strictness most vegetarians won't become anorexics.
Source/Link
Unhealthy focus on healthy eating?
By Sharon Goldman Edry
When Jill Meyer eats dinner at a friend's house, she usually brings her own meal even when it's not potluck. That's because she can't eat any food that has meat or fish in it. Or dairy. Or eggs. Or food that's nonorganic, processed or canned. Or anything cooked.
"I've been eating only raw foods for the past two months," Meyer said. "People don't know how to accommodate me, so either I just eat salad or I bring my own food." She may be a demanding dinner guest, but the 31-year-old Buffalo, New York woman said her new lifestyle is healthier and more natural. She also finds it hard to argue against the 24 pounds she's lost. "I was shocked beyond belief when I got on the scale."
Picky eating seems to be the latest diet trend and in some cases, people are taking food denial way past The Zone, a low-carbohydrate, high-protein regimen that requires adherents to eat a daily diet that's 40 percent carbohydrates, 30 percent proteins and 30 percent monounsaturated fats. While many fussy eaters claim to eat only certain foods for health reasons, some psychologists worry that this type of eating is another name for extreme and unhealthy dieting.
"Restricted eating can be a socially acceptable rationalization for those attempting to lose weight," said psychologist and eating disorder specialist Elizabeth Carll, Ph.D., of Long Island, New York. "It would appear rather rigid to not eat so many different things in order to be thin, but it's hard to argue with it if you say you're doing it for health reasons."
Health has become a far more worthy obsession than being preoccupied with fitting into a size 2. For Ellen Montague, a 41-year-old therapist from Fort Collins, Colorado, what began as a vegetarian diet soon turned into a wholesale ban of wheat, sugar, tomatoes, cheese and corn. She told herself and others that she was avoiding these foods due to allergies, but she finally realized that her limited eating was really just a diet in disguise.
"As I got older I started to worry more about gaining weight," she said. "And somehow I made the connection between eliminating foods and not getting fat."
Extreme habits
After reading Health Food Junkies: Overcoming the Obsession With Healthy Eating by Steven Bratman, M.D., Montague said she realized that her eating habits bordered on the extreme.
In the book, Bratman asserts that for some, fixating on eating "healthy" or "pure" foods definitions vary can become a dangerous obsession, which he calls orthorexia nervosa. He agrees that weight loss is a common hidden agenda among female orthorexics. Vegans, raw foodists and macrobiotic followers are often very thin, he explains, so losing weight can almost be considered a side effect. "You can pretend you're above the notion of dieting by saying you're interested only in 'healthy' foods," he explains, but you can still live up to the skinny image you seek.
Some women, however, feel no need to hide their intent they welcome the constraints that come with restrictive regimens, saying that the easy-to-remember dos and don'ts simplify weight management.
"It's almost like an automatic weight-loss mechanism," said 24-year-old Katy Morrison, a Berkeley, California-based public relations coordinator who's been a vegan going without eggs, dairy, meat or fish for several months and a vegetarian for more than a year. While she follows the diet for ethical and health reasons, she said it also helps her rein in one of her passions: chocolate. "I have a real sweet tooth, but I'm always trying to stay in shape. So not being allowed to eat chocolate chip cookies or cake anymore makes it really easy."
Some dieters are also drawn to dropping foods from their diets because of the overwhelming success rate. Studies show that vegans can lose an average of 20 pounds, said Neal Barnard, M.D., a clinical nutrition researcher, author and expert on vegetarian and vegan diets.
And results of small-scale studies show that people who adopt raw-food diets often experience dramatic weight loss.
But almost any diet that rejects entire food groups will lead to weight loss if calories are cut, said registered dietitian Edith Hogan, a spokeswoman for the American Dietetic Association.
"It depends on what the person was eating before," Hogan said. If your typical daily intake was a combination of McDonalds burgers and Ben & Jerry's ice cream and you switch to Sugarbusters!, a popular low-carbohydrate diet, you'll probably lose weight, she said.
Health risks
So is there anything wrong with a restrictive eating lifestyle to slim the waistline? Are these diets nutritionally sound, or are people putting their health at risk?
While experts are reluctant to discourage any habits that promote eating more fruits, vegetables and whole grains, they agree that structured diets can be taken too far. Fussy eating isn't an eating disorder, but people need to be careful that they don't take it to the extreme.
No matter what reason lies behind eliminating vitamin-packed foods such as meat, fish, dairy and eggs, dietitians say people's nutrition can suffer as a result. "It can be hard to get all the right nutrients on these diets, including calcium, magnesium, B-12 and folic acid," Hogan said.
While fruits and vegetables contain plenty of nutrients, people on such restrictive diets may have to eat more to get the required amounts. The demanding nature of some regimens may make eating a balanced diet difficult, although Hogan concedes that it can be done if people do their homework. "You have to learn to substitute things, but it's not just a matter of throwing in a few pieces of tofu," she said. "You have to pay particular attention every single day."
Montague, who's eating meat again, said relaxing her eating habits was a good move: "I don't want to spend my life worrying about food."
So how can you tell whether you're going overboard with fussy eating habits? If you answer "yes" to any of these questions, you might have a problem:
Do you avoid social situations because of your eating lifestyle?
"Diets can cross the line if they interfere with daily living; if your diet controls your behavior," Dr. Carll said. "If you refuse to go to parties, to go out to dinner, to go out with your boyfriend, that can become problematic. Food shouldn't run your life."
Do you spend more than three hours a day thinking about healthy food?
"Life is meant for joy, love, passion and accomplishment," Dr. Bratman said. "Life is too short to be spent thinking about how healthy or unhealthy your diet is, so if you find yourself regularly joyous about zucchini, in love with raw-grain pizza or proud of your ability to eat nothing but brown rice, your priorities are out of place."
Are you constantly in search of the ultimate healthy diet?
There's no ultimate healthy diet, Dr. Carll said. "A search for this kind of perfection is doomed to failure. Many of the people I find who adhere to such rigid regimens of dietary intake are perfectionists and obsessive compulsive by nature. Certain personalities are attracted to this type of eating, because they can feel vulnerable if they're out of control."
Is your diet getting stricter?
Orthorexia tends to escalate, Dr. Bratman said. "The diet of yesterday may not be pure enough for tomorrow. Over time, the rules governing eating get more rigid. Some macrobiotic followers will soon only eat brown rice. Or those convinced they have food allergies will cut out everything except turkey and rice. But after a certain point, no happiness or health comes from this increased strictness."
Are you adhering to your strict diet to maintain an inappropriately low weight?
"If your goal is to lose 10 pounds and then after you lose it, you reset your goal for another 10, that's an issue it's a matter of degree," Dr. Carll said, noting that these eating lifestyles don't cause anorexia or other eating disorders. "The precursor to developing an eating disorder is a diet that goes too far, no matter what the diet." For example, while there's a high incidence of veganism and vegetarianism among anorexics who may choose the diets for their strictness most vegetarians won't become anorexics.
Source/Link
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 13 2006, 11:07 PM) [snapback]1230254[/snapback]
I am "skinny" because I am an ectomorph.
yes. yes it does.
I don't know about sheri, but I have meat on my bones. That is meat=muscle.
Umm my dad...me...and my bro are ALL tall...my dad and my bro ate thin on it..but have good muscles....they are like that cuz they have a healthy balance of BOTH meat and veg
Living of just veg alone is good for you I wont dispute that Hyper...but LOL you cant reply on it to build up your strenth...
Now the only other way a tall thin guy is going to have any strenth what so ever...is to go to the gym and lift weights now and again....thats it....if he dont...he will be tall and thin alright but weak as a kitten
well, i can rely on a plant based diet as part of my strength training, and it works quite fine for me. The only way you build strength is through exercise, eating meat and sitting still isn't going to do it.
The Comparative Anatomy of Eating
by Milton R. Mills, M.D.
Humans are most often described as "omnivores". This classification is based on the "observation" that humans generally eat a wide variety of plant and animal foods. However, culture, custom and training are confounding variables when looking at human dietary practices. Thus, "observation" is not the best technique to use when trying to identify the most "natural" diet for humans. While most humans are clearly "behavioral" omnivores, the question still remains as to whether humans are anatomically suited for a diet that includes animal as well as plant foods.
A better and more objective technique is to look at human anatomy and physiology. Mammals are anatomically and physiologically adapted to procure and consume particular kinds of diets. (It is common practice when examining fossils of extinct mammals to examine anatomical features to deduce the animal's probable diet.) Therefore, we can look at mammalian carnivores, herbivores (plant-eaters) and omnivores to see which anatomical and physiological features are associated with each kind of diet. Then we can look at human anatomy and physiology to see in which group we belong.
Oral Cavity
Carnivores have a wide mouth opening in relation to their head size. This confers obvious advantages in developing the forces used in seizing, killing and dismembering prey. Facial musculature is reduced since these muscles would hinder a wide gape, and play no part in the animal's preparation of food for swallowing. In all mammalian carnivores, the jaw joint is a simple hinge joint lying in the same plane as the teeth. This type of joint is extremely stable and acts as the pivot point for the "lever arms" formed by the upper and lower jaws. The primary muscle used for operating the jaw in carnivores is the temporalis muscle. This muscle is so massive in carnivores that it accounts for most of the bulk of the sides of the head (when you pet a dog, you are petting its temporalis muscles). The "angle" of the mandible (lower jaw) in carnivores is small. This is because the muscles (masseter and pterygoids) that attach there are of minor importance in these animals. The lower jaw of carnivores cannot move forward, and has very limited side-to-side motion. When the jaw of a carnivore closes, the blade-shaped cheek molars slide past each other to give a slicing motion that is very effective for shearing meat off bone.http://www.21daydetox.com/p>The teeth of a carnivore are discretely spaced so as not to trap stringy debris. The incisors are short, pointed and prong-like and are used for grasping and shredding. The canines are greatly elongated and dagger-like for stabbing, tearing and killing prey. The molars (carnassials) are flattened and triangular with jagged edges such that they function like serrated-edged blades. Because of the hinge-type joint, when a carnivore closes its jaw, the cheek teeth come together in a back-to-front fashion giving a smooth cutting motion like the blades on a pair of shears.
The saliva of carnivorous animals does not contain digestive enzymes. When eating, a mammalian carnivore gorges itself rapidly and does not chew its food. Since proteolytic (protein-digesting) enzymes cannot be liberated in the mouth due to the danger of autodigestion (damaging the oral cavity), carnivores do not need to mix their food with saliva; they simply bite off huge chunks of meat and swallow them whole.
According to evolutionary theory, the anatomical features consistent with an herbivorous diet represent a more recently derived condition than that of the carnivore. Herbivorous mammals have well-developed facial musculature, fleshy lips, a relatively small opening into the oral cavity and a thickened, muscular tongue. The lips aid in the movement of food into the mouth and, along with the facial (cheek) musculature and tongue, assist in the chewing of food. In herbivores, the jaw joint has moved to position above the plane of the teeth. Although this type of joint is less stable than the hinge-type joint of the carnivore, it is much more mobile and allows the complex jaw motions needed when chewing plant foods. Additionally, this type of jaw joint allows the upper and lower cheek teeth to come together along the length of the jaw more or less at once when the mouth is closed in order to form grinding platforms. (This type of joint is so important to a plant-eating animal, that it is believed to have evolved at least 15 different times in various plant-eating mammalian species.) The angle of the mandible has expanded to provide a broad area of attachment for the well-developed masseter and pterygoid muscles (these are the major muscles of chewing in plant-eating animals). The temporalis muscle is small and of minor importance. The masseter and pterygoid muscles hold the mandible in a sling-like arrangement and swing the jaw from side-to-side. Accordingly, the lower jaw of plant-eating mammals has a pronounced sideways motion when eating. This lateral movement is necessary for the grinding motion of chewing.
The dentition of herbivores is quite varied depending on the kind of vegetation a particular species is adapted to eat. Although these animals differ in the types and numbers of teeth they posses, the various kinds of teeth when present, share common structural features. The incisors are broad, flattened and spade-like. Canines may be small as in horses, prominent as in hippos, pigs and some primates (these are thought to be used for defense) or absent altogether. The molars, in general, are squared and flattened on top to provide a grinding surface. The molars cannot vertically slide past one another in a shearing/slicing motion, but they do horizontally slide across one another to crush and grind. The surface features of the molars vary depending on the type of plant material the animal eats. The teeth of herbivorous animals are closely grouped so that the incisors form an efficient cropping/biting mechanism, and the upper and lower molars form extended platforms for crushing and grinding. The "walled-in" oral cavity has a lot of potential space that is realized during eating.
These animals carefully and methodically chew their food, pushing the food back and forth into the grinding teeth with the tongue and cheek muscles. This thorough process is necessary to mechanically disrupt plant cell walls in order to release the digestible intracellular contents and ensure thorough mixing of this material with their saliva. This is important because the saliva of plant-eating mammals often contains carbohydrate-digesting enzymes which begin breaking down food molecules while the food is still in the mouth.
Full article: http://www.newveg.av.org/anatomy.htm
by Milton R. Mills, M.D.
Humans are most often described as "omnivores". This classification is based on the "observation" that humans generally eat a wide variety of plant and animal foods. However, culture, custom and training are confounding variables when looking at human dietary practices. Thus, "observation" is not the best technique to use when trying to identify the most "natural" diet for humans. While most humans are clearly "behavioral" omnivores, the question still remains as to whether humans are anatomically suited for a diet that includes animal as well as plant foods.
A better and more objective technique is to look at human anatomy and physiology. Mammals are anatomically and physiologically adapted to procure and consume particular kinds of diets. (It is common practice when examining fossils of extinct mammals to examine anatomical features to deduce the animal's probable diet.) Therefore, we can look at mammalian carnivores, herbivores (plant-eaters) and omnivores to see which anatomical and physiological features are associated with each kind of diet. Then we can look at human anatomy and physiology to see in which group we belong.
Oral Cavity
Carnivores have a wide mouth opening in relation to their head size. This confers obvious advantages in developing the forces used in seizing, killing and dismembering prey. Facial musculature is reduced since these muscles would hinder a wide gape, and play no part in the animal's preparation of food for swallowing. In all mammalian carnivores, the jaw joint is a simple hinge joint lying in the same plane as the teeth. This type of joint is extremely stable and acts as the pivot point for the "lever arms" formed by the upper and lower jaws. The primary muscle used for operating the jaw in carnivores is the temporalis muscle. This muscle is so massive in carnivores that it accounts for most of the bulk of the sides of the head (when you pet a dog, you are petting its temporalis muscles). The "angle" of the mandible (lower jaw) in carnivores is small. This is because the muscles (masseter and pterygoids) that attach there are of minor importance in these animals. The lower jaw of carnivores cannot move forward, and has very limited side-to-side motion. When the jaw of a carnivore closes, the blade-shaped cheek molars slide past each other to give a slicing motion that is very effective for shearing meat off bone.http://www.21daydetox.com/p>The teeth of a carnivore are discretely spaced so as not to trap stringy debris. The incisors are short, pointed and prong-like and are used for grasping and shredding. The canines are greatly elongated and dagger-like for stabbing, tearing and killing prey. The molars (carnassials) are flattened and triangular with jagged edges such that they function like serrated-edged blades. Because of the hinge-type joint, when a carnivore closes its jaw, the cheek teeth come together in a back-to-front fashion giving a smooth cutting motion like the blades on a pair of shears.
The saliva of carnivorous animals does not contain digestive enzymes. When eating, a mammalian carnivore gorges itself rapidly and does not chew its food. Since proteolytic (protein-digesting) enzymes cannot be liberated in the mouth due to the danger of autodigestion (damaging the oral cavity), carnivores do not need to mix their food with saliva; they simply bite off huge chunks of meat and swallow them whole.
According to evolutionary theory, the anatomical features consistent with an herbivorous diet represent a more recently derived condition than that of the carnivore. Herbivorous mammals have well-developed facial musculature, fleshy lips, a relatively small opening into the oral cavity and a thickened, muscular tongue. The lips aid in the movement of food into the mouth and, along with the facial (cheek) musculature and tongue, assist in the chewing of food. In herbivores, the jaw joint has moved to position above the plane of the teeth. Although this type of joint is less stable than the hinge-type joint of the carnivore, it is much more mobile and allows the complex jaw motions needed when chewing plant foods. Additionally, this type of jaw joint allows the upper and lower cheek teeth to come together along the length of the jaw more or less at once when the mouth is closed in order to form grinding platforms. (This type of joint is so important to a plant-eating animal, that it is believed to have evolved at least 15 different times in various plant-eating mammalian species.) The angle of the mandible has expanded to provide a broad area of attachment for the well-developed masseter and pterygoid muscles (these are the major muscles of chewing in plant-eating animals). The temporalis muscle is small and of minor importance. The masseter and pterygoid muscles hold the mandible in a sling-like arrangement and swing the jaw from side-to-side. Accordingly, the lower jaw of plant-eating mammals has a pronounced sideways motion when eating. This lateral movement is necessary for the grinding motion of chewing.
The dentition of herbivores is quite varied depending on the kind of vegetation a particular species is adapted to eat. Although these animals differ in the types and numbers of teeth they posses, the various kinds of teeth when present, share common structural features. The incisors are broad, flattened and spade-like. Canines may be small as in horses, prominent as in hippos, pigs and some primates (these are thought to be used for defense) or absent altogether. The molars, in general, are squared and flattened on top to provide a grinding surface. The molars cannot vertically slide past one another in a shearing/slicing motion, but they do horizontally slide across one another to crush and grind. The surface features of the molars vary depending on the type of plant material the animal eats. The teeth of herbivorous animals are closely grouped so that the incisors form an efficient cropping/biting mechanism, and the upper and lower molars form extended platforms for crushing and grinding. The "walled-in" oral cavity has a lot of potential space that is realized during eating.
These animals carefully and methodically chew their food, pushing the food back and forth into the grinding teeth with the tongue and cheek muscles. This thorough process is necessary to mechanically disrupt plant cell walls in order to release the digestible intracellular contents and ensure thorough mixing of this material with their saliva. This is important because the saliva of plant-eating mammals often contains carbohydrate-digesting enzymes which begin breaking down food molecules while the food is still in the mouth.
Full article: http://www.newveg.av.org/anatomy.htm
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 13 2006, 11:41 PM) [snapback]1230311[/snapback]
well, i can rely on a plant based diet as part of my strength training, and it works quite fine for me. The only way you build strength is through exercise, eating meat and sitting still isn't going to do it.
I didnt say eating meat alone will do it hyper LOL I strongly believe (and I made a thread on it) that a good balance of BOTH meat and veg is good...it keeps a healthy balance....prove me wrong??? cuz no one has...remember I said BOTH
I eat meat..but only once or twice a week...and not too much of it...I believe if a person OVER DOES IT with red meat...and I mean OVER DOES IT...it can lead to serious health problems
BUT...so can a health fanatic...a health fanatic can do themselves more harm too by over doing it...this is indeed very true
i believe i already posted in one of the many threads on this the studies that compared various diets (vegan, vegitarian, octo-lato vegitarian, meat eater, etc) with mortality, heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. The vegans always fair the best. Was there something else you were looking for specifically?
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 14 2006, 12:09 AM) [snapback]1230350[/snapback]
i believe i already posted in one of the many threads on this the studies that compared various diets (vegan, vegitarian, octo-lato vegitarian, meat eater, etc) with mortality, heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. The vegans always fair the best. Was there something else you were looking for specifically?
Looking for?? LOL I wasnt looking anything
You say Vegans always fair the best...I respect your views...but I think and believe a healthy balance is the best of everything....
QUOTE
i believe i already posted in one of the many threads on this the studies that compared various diets (vegan, vegitarian, octo-lato vegitarian, meat eater, etc) with mortality, heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. The vegans always fair the best. Was there something else you were looking for specifically?
Bias
That's because vegans are always a little more health concious than the average person. If you put the two health-concious people that are exactly the same on a vegan diet, and the other on a healthy mixed diet, the one would fare better in the mixed.
che cosa sembra essere il problema?
QUOTE(zarvirus @ Jun 14 2006, 12:36 AM) [snapback]1230387[/snapback]
che cosa sembra essere il problema?
What is your problem??? cant you see this is ..AN ENGLISH SPEAKING FORUM
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Jun 14 2006, 12:51 AM) [snapback]1230414[/snapback]
What is your problem??? cant you see this is ..AN ENGLISH SPEAKING FORUM
he said that what seems to be the problem in italian.
i dont know if he cant speak a word of english or that he is just trying to wind people up.
ok here goes i will try and explain to our friend here lol
Ci๒ ่ una tribuna che anglofona state andando offendere la gente poich้ nessuno undersatnd della latta realmente voi. E per quanto riguarda la vostra domanda ci ่ una discussione che accende circa se mangiando la carne e le verdure ่ sane o appena mangianti le verdure normali. Non so se ho scritto questa destra a macchina cos์ spiacente se non capite.
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