No arty an idea created religion by men and no its not based in nature....Is this like who came first the chicken and the egg?????

You're the one who said both came first, its not a trick question, there's an obvious answer you avoided. People obviously came first before religion(this could be a thread in itself ) and so did their behaviors. Some granted were more agressive than others, we can see this type of behavior in all the animal kingdom. Religion plays no part in human 'instincts' violent or other.

Arty why is it obvious people came before religon????

Are you serious...really.. I mean that?! If people didn't come first who created religion?
I'll give you credit though for eluding the theme.

Why is it obvious its a genuine question???Arty you always have an answer did you notice??and also wisdom isn't in the 'right'answers ......

Who created religion?

Well you do have a sense of humour, that is why I like you arty

TY good answer

your welcome whose your avatar???If thisisn't ironic arty i am an artist too I paint and sketch...

Don't be so quick to dismiss some of Zero's contributions here. The majority of my students are of his generation and they reflect many of the same sentiments. And, from age 14 through my early 20s, I wasn't much different. There were more than a few times when I wanted to do what I wanted to do, with who I wanted, where I wanted, how I wanted, and no one was going to tell me otherwise... my parents were mere figureheads as far as I was concerned.

- Michael

People.

And then, the egg.

Haaa, very funny YOLK!

Ha ha ha ha ha Curiousity that is great ha ha ha ha

Don't mind me I am just typing to see all the berri clans pics in a row LOL

IF I think you got short changed on your chicken.....it's headless!

OMG it's naked also!

And it's a bad parent. Look at what it's doing to it's child!

Imaginary fr used this to illustrate a point, we all know you think its great parenting skills to beat and punish a child......but I do see the atttempt at humour so I'll give you that...lol

Excuse me, but spanking is not beating. If it is, then I beat my girlfriend every night and should go to jail. But it's not.


I don't remember my mom running on my head like that chicken is doing to it's egg. And my mom definitley never beat me. If she would, I'd have kicked her in the nuts.

It's also running on it's own egg, but did you notice that!? Noooooo!

yeah yeah just like the bible isn't religion

Look it up in the dictionary for petes sake...you will see the word beating right there

Berri good bec's ma

LOL but there are those that will argue with a dictionary

Dictionaries also give the wrong definition for "Soul". Spankind is not beating in my eyes. End of Story.

Beating is hitting hard enough to bruse, or punching.

see what I mean Sheri...case closed

Are you saying a spanking won't do that???How about what it does to a childs self esteem confidence emotional health?????A child thrives in a n enviorment that is safe and secure, one learns about trust from the way a parent models they can be trusted, Ever wonder why many kids put ther trust in dangerous things????Drugs, alcohol , people. gangs.....Litttle buddy this isn't your subject

to paragraph 1: there is a marked difference between something forced and something consentual. Many women dream of being raped, but do not want to be raped. The difference is that in the dream, they are in control.

to paragraph 2: your mother has nuts?

So my mom spanking me lowered my self esteam, and so did every other child that was ever spanked? How would you know this? I think we have a real psychic here!

I can tell you that when it comes to me, you couldn't be more wrong.

You see. I was just joking around. And sheri, a person who can't accept other's beliefs and understandings, jumps out of no where and gives me more sh**. I use to like you Sheri, I'm not so sure anymore.

I dont know peeps- i too dont see spanking as beating and i dont need to have a child to say that. With my dad...the Belt, the stick the shoes yes...that was beating. My mum just used to spank me (and not hard at all). I used to WISH i got punished by my mother only.
I'm always open to saying my opinion on even spanking my child at all may change when i have a child- but my opinion on spanking in general wont change...my opinion that spanking isnt beating still stands to me.

I think if your kids need more than a sharp, open-handed whack, something is wrong with you .

Zero who are you kidding you have never liked me, and don't worry about it you don't have too. My intention was not to push a nerve i take the subject of abusing children as serious as a heart attack, i can't say if you have low self esteem i don't know you Zero, Of course I have my opinion but that is all it is....

Okay ramster spanking, hitting, verbally abusing a child is barbaric behavior and will harm the child in some way , I would hope you would not ever want a child to feel as you did and i can read it was hard on you, I'm sorry you went through that (((hugs)))) and i told Zero many people use those experiences to do great things and protecting a child is pretty noble in my eyes.....

I won't apologize for giving a damn.....

gid are you saying you would slap your children i am not clear on your post.....I'm thinking I misread your post.....

I did not think about that.

Spanking, hitting beating eggs all the same to me

spank those eggs

Spanking is not abuse and if you think it is, think it, no need to go out and say "Zero likes to abuse kids", that's basically what you're saying. I am extremley against abuse, and molestation, and how dare you accuse me of supporting such things as "Abuse" just because you consider a little tap on the but abuse.

Sorry Sheri I didn't read the whole topic

But my comment here is this, the punishment depends on the child and the offense...I would not spank my child for most things, however there are somethings that I do feel need to be imprinted on his mind with something that goes beyond just talking to him....walking up to a strangers car for example yes he would get popped for this, he would get into all kinds of trouble...if it makes him angry with me or makes him feel bad for a while I say oh well, at least he'll be alive and well and with his family while he's doing his pouting won't he? I don't think that spanking as a normal thing is good or even healthy for the child...but in the same token some kids won't respond to anything else.....

A blanket comment about not spanking to me is the same as saying spanking is good....life isn't that simple and to limit a parent by saying that spanking/swatting/popping whatever is bad all the time because you personally feel that your child doesn't need it is not any better then the person who says do it it's the only thing that works....make sense?

Zero, Its good to see you stand for something i was beginning to wonder????


Bacca rearing children is moving away from the reward punishment dogmas, its ineffefctive and often harmful, I have raised 3 boys i haven't had to spank, hit, beat ground verbally berate and all the other things, The current style of paretning is rooted in Religous dogma for the most part i stay away from doctrines that advocate abuse and other things that do not encourage and inspire a person, but others have the choice to parent how they seem fit....

I fully support organic parenting.....

Sheri I understand fully where you are coming from....but I also feel that some kids just aren't able to respond to all types of parenting...not only that but not all parents are able to parent with the same type of patience and understanding that you do...right or wrong as that may be it's the truth...a single mother raising a boy who is at work fifty plus hours a week is just not going to be able to sit down and explain things as effectively as a mother who has patience and the time to do so....I know that that isn't fair to the child but we as parents can only do our best...your way is right for you and I know that...my way is different it some ways. Yes I have popped my childs hand for doing things that could really hurt him and has been punished for doing things that have hurt others no matter if it was intentional or not if he harms his two year old cousin my son will be in trouble...and he doesn't do it again...I do my best...as the mother of a son that's what i've got...he gets everything I have but I can only do so much and if my best means that he gets his hand popped or his but swatted or whatever to prevent him from getting hurt or hurting someone else later then so be it....I know how you feel but my reasoning has nothing to do with any church dogma it has to do with watching him grow up and my desire to see him do so......

As you said every parent does the best they know how, Its actually a very easy way to parent, I'm about easy and to the point, I want my days as a mother joyous as much as possible, but i understand what you are saying too...

I know Sheri I hate having to punish my little man...but you do what's best in the best way you know how....you my friend are patient...me? I'm just stuck on my rules...I don't have many but I sure expect them to be followed and to be honest with my son if I start counting he starts running but i'm lucky for that I think....who knows girl....

No offense, but it isn't always that you're a good parernt. It is also if you have good kids. Don't think handeling every child is the same, once you think that, be prepared to screw up.

Good kids good parents thats the gist of that, i was parented in the manner I parent, I was parented by my grandparents they were in their 50's and had all their sh*t worked out and had seen the fruits of their labor, so they were ready to just love and treat a kid with respect...Bacca i have my rules too and they aren't negotiable i just use love and kindness and respect I have discovered if you treat a kid with resepct and kindness from birth you will get the same in return. I have 3 kids each is a differnt unique expression , i adjust my paretning accordinly, but I've been at this a long time and had wonderful role models ....

Zero what do you know aout parenting?

With all respect, as the child of a parent I imagine they have the right to say they know quite a bit based on their personal experience of that relationship.
One need not be a parent to know what it's like to be parented by someone with their own notions of how it's done. And one that has had that experience has had the experience, which is not discounted in it's impact upon the one parented, by those with impersonal and peripheral opinions after the fact .

Imaginary, If one feels that hitting a child to guide them is acceptable for whtever resons , parenting with love is not wht they are doing scaring a child is also effective and damaging but to what peril on our youth.....and future


this is s thread to discuss raising the bar on parenting, not just going with the herd...If we want a better world , less violence less division, less intolerance, it begins with the way we guidde the future our children and you better beleive it i don't advocate violence of any kind least of all to a child.... what has went before isn't cutting it...


I thought I knew so much about parenting too when i wasn't one, a child is a child for a reason they have not had the time to accrue life experinces, of course it would matter alot in the fashion they were parented and many have been fear parented thats the idea here to raise awareness, model another way not ot say its the only way, it does concern me to see posts in favor of abusing children but okay thast just maybe I'm too picky

I agree with Bec's ma at this point in Zero's life I don't think he knows much about parenting....

Excuse me for a sec here...hold the phone...I too like all other parents here that have shared their comments...I thought much like Zero that I knew it all..long before I became an actual parent.
When people tried to tell me my whole attitude would change I didn't believe one single word of it..I thought they where talking crap...I figured by experiencing what my parents had done, that I knew the score...did I heck...the sec I becmae one..I was proved WRONG..ohh so freaking WRONG..it was not how I had imagined it to be.....in fact as much as I hate to admit this...those people where RIGHT...my life did change...this time I am the one totally responcible for another human being like it or not...I am the one that will spend each waking day worrying over this lil kid...right up untill that kid is old enough to leave and guess what...like my parents are now I WILL STILL WORRY and LOVE my kid regardless the age....I never saw it like that at all...

When my parents told me I had to be in for a certain time....I used to think it was just so they could lock the doors ect...I was wrong....there are so many things that I didn't understand ...and now that I am one it is like steppping into a different universe....so if you are just a child of two parents and you have never had a kid...you have NO IDEA what its really like........you only think you do...but you don't....looking after a kid is NOT like a pet dog or cat..there is a lot more to it....trust me on this....and as a new parent...every day is ONE BIG LEARNING EXPERIENCE believe me it sure is...ask ANY PARENT they will totally agree...I would even lay toy a wager on this any time...cuz I know I AM RIGHT

Think about it this way...when some of you where at school you thought you knew it all and couldn't wait to get the feck out of school and start earning the dosh right? and when someone said school is the best days of your life..you thought they where talking trash LOL right?..(plz note I said some)...and years later some of you soon came to realize that they where right, and you wish you had of lstened back when you had the chance...but now that you experience the big bad world out there its a whole new ball game.....well parenting is the same only with parenting you cant hide from it

beautiful post girl and well spoken

Thanks Sheri


I'll bet you anything that if anyone that is single and dont have kids yet...they only have themselves to worry and be accountable for...and nothing to tie them down..they have more freedom....hell we ALL did at one point...but when you have a kid..thats when it all changes..all of a sudden you have another lil baby you..something that you created, something that you are responcible for, until the day you die...thats when your whole world changes we all thought we knew what it woulf be like being a parent..but we didn't

I once said that the spanking ect that I got did me no harm and had no effect on me...only cuz my parents told me so.

I'll bet you anything if those of you that think you know what its like to be a parent...why not ask your own parent/parent...if they knew before they became parents and see what they have to say...go on I dare you

Well... Sheri, Becky's Mom, bacca, et al, .... I'm asking. I asked my mother and she laughed. We (Rebecca and I) think we know enough to feel excited and confident about raising a family. Certainly we don't know everything. In fact, the only thing we know for certain is that we're going to certainly be asking a lot of questions.

- Michael