Well Michael you are right you will be asking a lot of questions...I am STILL asking questions...like I said...everyday you WILL be sure to learn something out...after all we arent allnatural born parents LOL...take today for example...I had to search for a few answers about my childs bad cough...turns out she has a nasty chest infection...while the know it alls tried to tell me it could be just her teething, cuz when I kid teeths they catch anything going

ThAt is so funny Bec's ma and i were PMing on that how i used to and still do bug my physcologist friends and the classes i took and etc etc and it boils down too I'm still asking questions and still learning and so is the Insane Berri lol, well said Micheal.....

My reply was to address the content of this dialog;



When I said; "With all respect, as the child of a parent I imagine they have the right to say they know quite a bit based on their personal experience of that relationship.
One need not be a parent to know what it's like to be parented by someone with their own notions of how it's done. And one that has had that experience has had the experience, which is not discounted in it's impact upon the one parented, by those with impersonal and peripheral opinions after the fact ."

Certainly it is common sense to know one will not know the experience of a thing unless they have engaged in that which is to provide the experience. In this case parenting.
However Zero's and anyone else for that matter that does not hold accord with BM's and Sherri's methods are then subject to criticism for thinking to parent otherwise. And it is a mistake to dare imply someone is not entitled to an opinion of parenting, less they are one themselves. We are all impressed upon by the methods of parenting our parents exampled. That's what impresses the individual when they become parents, when they are faced with the stress of the reality in real life. No one can claim they never disciplined their child, but reasoned with them instead, when in fact children are by nature unreasonable in the beginning. Therefore, no parent can ever claim they have never disciplined their child(ren). To do so would to then example themself as liars , or as one ignorant of the full import of the term; discipline, which is quite simply setting boundries of behavior.

What a bold posture it is to imagine anyone has the exclusive knowledge invested in the privilege of parenting, just because they are one. And thus, all other opinions of how it is done, is wrong.
Because in truth that's exactly what it is, one parents opinion of experience! One understanding of how it's done with those in their charge. It is ignorance to imagine all children are alike in their moods and behaviors, so as to claim that one mode of parenting in one's personal opinion of experience, is conducive to every child, and those who would dare to parent them. Othewise every other mode of parenting and discipline, is wrong! Thereby discounting anyone else's idea's if they are not in keeping with one's own.

I know children that one can not reason with because they are doggedly unreasonable. They are not mentally retarded, rather they are mentally stunted and myopic in that they do not learn to behave through the usual mechanisms of discipline or personal experience. In which case "reason" is not conducive to instilling the education they need not to commit certain behaviors lest they suffer discipline or for the experience of a poor choice, yet again! Therefore, reason is wasted on the unreasonable.

One is not saying one then need to beat a child to get the point across. One is simply saying that to presume every child is a student subject to reason, is to affirm one is naive of all children save those they can speak for personally. And presumptious to imagine that experience is the icon of propriety in parenting for all.

Therefore, you are welcome to your opinion based on your experience in parenting. However you are not entitled to presume no one else is possessed of the ability, if they do not see the "right way to do the job" in the same way as you do. That predisposition to imagining there is only one way to do something, is the same mentality that affords fundamentalist mentalities in religion. It's no different to say there is only one way to parent, then there is in saying there is only one way to god. Anyone that knows anything, knows that.

Excellent point.

IMaginary fr you are making this personal based on the fact you use such methods to parent according to you there are no other choices....

You are using words such as reasoning , how are you defining that????

You are also calling ones liars who don't define discipline in the way you do you are falling into the reward punishment style of parenting, there is a new parenting style in town which guides, interseting you haven't asked a single question, just defended your stance, possibly you aren't comfortable with your methods...

i have only my kids and self to answer too and the same for you you'll see just hoew effective 'reward punishing parenting is" this is a thread on discussing other methods of parenting not defending the ones that observably don't work .....its not personal.......
if yo usay you ant healtyh kids paernting in an unhealthy manner isn't gonna achieve that...

I have not said my way is the only way i said its another way which is non violent and harmful to a child....

You are speaking of yourself dear, not me. For throughout this post, it is you that presume to know how to parent, contrary to others who have afforded a differing opinon.

As for the rest of your presumption, allow me to assuage the ignorance of the term "Discipline" to which you presume again is a definition afforded to equal my opinion on the issue of parental responsibility in matters of the practice.

Discipline:

dis·ci·pline ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ds-pln)
n.
*Training expected to produce a specific character or pattern of behavior, especially training that produces moral or mental improvement.
*Controlled behavior resulting from disciplinary training; self-control.

*Control obtained by enforcing compliance or order.
*A systematic method to obtain obedience: a military discipline.
*A state of order based on submission to rules and authority: a teacher who demanded discipline in the classroom.
*Punishment intended to correct or train.
*A set of rules or methods, as those regulating the practice of a church or monastic order.
*A branch of knowledge or teaching.

Therefore, what I said is in keeping with that definition, rather than intended as a personal indictment of any one in this thread. Anyone that claim they have never disciplined their child is either a liar or ignorant of the definition and import of the practice of discipline of a child.

If you take personal issue with that, please take issue with Websters. After one takes issue with themselves for promoting a falsehood as a responsible example of parenting, if they now learn the definition and yet insist they have never practiced discipline in the care and guidance of a child. That then is quite simply and by definition, untrue, of anyone that would claim to have raised a decent disciplined human being.

Which I have no doudt there are those who never experienced discipline and are now among us. In which case the world will discipline them in matters of conduct and behavior in society, long after the parent(s) so obviously failed to contribute a decent example of humanity, for the rest of us to endure.

I.Friend..when the day finally comes for you to be a parent..then come back and tell us how it has changed you...other than that I for one cannot agree that you would know all about raising a kid...cuz lets face it I am still learning myself and I am one...and im not going to try and act the big shot......when you have your own kid only then you will know how it feels...we all tend to THINK we WOULD know but when the actual time comes...thats when everything takes a new turn

thats how I thought you were using it, Imainary fr. you my dear are talking from a religous theme on parenting < No I don't Fear parent and webstersisn't the only possible definitions of discipline...It is you who is convinced that you know the only way to parent and suggesting that beating and force are the only possible way for certian'children,' like Bec's ma said come back and talk with us when you have your own kids.....

I'm a parent in progress and learning evryday i have much to learn oh I've been a parent for 22 years have 3 kids have seen alot and have guided with love that is all that was required, I do consider myself somewhat versed on the subject and what I don't know I ASK .........All the best to you.............

It seems comical and ironic to me to use methods that are out of control to teach control....

I can see the presumptuousness of Sheri is contagious .

You and Sheri are the only ones presumptuous enough throughout this thread, to claim to know the "right" way to raise a child. No one else has postured themselves so boldly as to profess there is but one way, "their way", amid many who hold individual philosophies regarding parenting, to guide each unique child, when one is a parent.

So I wish you every good thing in your commitment to influence a responsible member of future society, of which there are many examples of others that are loving, qualified and responsible parents that attend that responsibility differently than you and Sheri , and that can still take credit for doing it "right", regardless of whether you or Sheri see it that way or not. It is no one's responsibility to meet your expectations for their children.

Just as you always counter opinions that are different than yours, to wait until the one holding the opinion has children of their own, otherwise they have no foundation from which to speak about raising a child(ren), realize that your only right in expressing the opinion of proper parenting is met by how you discipline those in your charge. And though you boldly pronounce yourself believing otherwise, it is the only right you have, that of an opinion, in matters relating to how other parents raise their child.

However, if you instill the attitude you example here, as one that believes their way is the only way, in those children you claim right to parent, you insure you raise children that reflect the impression you instill, which is intolerance of others not believing as they do.
And while you may sit there and bluster in protest of those words, realize that you example that throughout this thread, when you take issue with anyone's opinion of child rearing that is different from your own. So then we are left with the impression if this is your attitude toward others about how to raise a child, it is your attitude about anything that is different than what you hold for yourself as true and worthy of respect as such.

You see dear, you may claim any number of techniques as effective tools for parenting the future in your charge, in that relationship of parent/child. Yet how you example your self to that understanding, on this board where other parents have cared to share their opinion, is what we witness as the role-model that instills the philosophy into those child(ren) in your care. In which case, your children are certain to be surprised when they encounter the children of others, like to those that share as parents in this thread, that think differently than you do and yet raise genuine assets to society, as you claim to, even though you do not give them credit for doing so, unless they do it your way.

After all these years of living, daring to imagine your experience has the right to influence the malleable mind of a baby, one would think you at least learned that in a world of many, your personal opinion means nothing to the living of it, by others not you!

do you even have kids Imaginary friend????I am confident in my parenting abilitys, if not me then who???I also will and have on numerous occasions sought out help when in question..I'm beginning to think this has nothing t do with Bec or my sharing in a parenting style, more to do with you venting your frustrations, thankyou for your contirbutions, but i will not be agreeing that for some "unique child" fear parenting would be appropriate, I have said many times one must parent how they see fit and according to you I don't mean that either, whatever is going on with you i wish you the best.....

Wow leave for a day and this is what I have to come back to?

The problem with this debate is that it is pointless really...Sheri has a wonderful personal style of parenting...No it will not work for everyone because not everyone has her temperament or philosophies what is right for her is not right for everyone...In a nut shell I see it this way...You don't hit your child..you don't belittle or emotionally harm your child...but you also don't as a parent go against your own ideas of right and wrong...Sheri or Bec's ma may find something that I allow my son to do wrong or vice versa but as a parent you have to choose what you do and do not consider wrong...Your right sheri the only person that a parent has to answer to is themself and the child...within reason anyway...

What I see the issue being here is the parenting is the one thing that everyone has all the answers to..until they have children...unless you can tell me the proper way to handle a child who needed to pee so pee'd on another child when at recess...can you? can you tell me how you handle a child who got in trouble for something at school that you find perfectly acceptable at home? it's hard to do but children often have to follow more then one set of rules and as the parent you also have to learn to deal with the consequences of that....it's not easy and everyday is something new....if you aren't a parent yourself you can never imagine what it is like to actually love another person more then yourself...or to realize that your actions can harm or hurt that child....it's scary and for those of us who are parents it is very frustrating to have those who aren't tell us what is right or wrong or what we could or should do....

Perhaps I'm wrong here but from what I read that is a big issue here and and to many people are taking this personally

Thankyou bacca and very well said, each parent finds their way, I actually beleive every parent does the absolute best they can, you brougt up an excellent point bacca, most definitley different rules for differnt systems (school) Generally the schools also follow the reward punishment dogma and that is definitly something if you are gonna use the school sytem and you are parenting without it you would talk with your child ,I have been telling my children from little everyone parents different, beleives different , we don't make fun or shun , we are resepctful of all others, As you know girl raising children outside the religous dogma we have to account for that to, I find it helps alot if the child has a strong sense of self esteem and confidence I guide with this in mind.

I completely agree Sheri it's a hard thing to explain to a child why some kids say prayer at lunch or wear a cross etc...With my child I explain to him in a way that he can understand that not everyone has to believe and follow the same things...To a child that is a bit confusing...I as a parent get very angry when someone trys to impose religion onto my child...and believe me people do it....

But again I say I do my best....and I worry everyday that it won't be enough...but I get up and do it again and again etc that's what a parent does....if it means that sometimes i'm a bit harsh on somethings and bit soft on others then oh well...all I care about at the end of the day is when that little man says good night I love you mommy that he means it....

Besides what's better then that?

You can say that again, I think too a good line of communication betwen parent and child is crucial, I put alot of effort into not jeopordizing that, I want my son to come to me trust me over his peers over anyone for now , man a few peers togehter come up with all kinds of trouble, i've been through the teenage years already and as there is no one way. getting along and having mutual resepct goes along way, I usually err on the side of kindness and love I think too spend quality time with kids as much as possible, know them know there friends their freinds parents be on top of things just my 2 cents....

My thoughts on this topic………Please read TY

People this whole topic can go around in circles, day in day out non stop

In one corner you will have those that are actually parents and have a fair idea on how to raise kids

In the other corner you will have those that don’t have kids but think because they where raised by one/two parents (forgetting those that are parents where the same as them at one stage) think they can just more or less follow what their parents have done or maybe think they can top what their parents have done….but still be clueless on what its like to have a kid of their own

What we must remember is….not all kids are the same, certainly not

Every kid is unique in their own way, and each react differently to the same kind of discipline, this my friends is a fact and don’t try and say its not lol

Sheri has raised 3 great kids and her methods of parenting seems to have taken a huge effect, I myself have taken a few pointers, but does that mean if I follow Sheri’s ways that my lil Becky will turn out just as good?... Indeed it does NOT…no one knows how she will turn out, as she is different from her 3 boys.

All I can do with Becky is try my best and hope for the best, but if I need to punish her, I will have to but not by hitting her, as there are other ways and in due time I may find out…like I said all kids are different and react differently

A parent can give all the love and support they can think of and believe they are doing it the right way…..but just what is the right way? If anyone of you think you know it, you are wrong….there is no right way, but there is a right way when it comes to your way, as only YOU as a parent know your child better than anyone else, but that doesn’t mean that your way will work 100% on someone elses child.

I loved what bacca wrote about her and her boy, when she does a count and he runs LOL, if bacca method works well for her, and her kid is still happy and loves his mom dearly, then why stop it? I mean this doesn’t mean that bacca doesn’t love her boy any less…or vice versa!! She has created a special bond with him from the moment she found out she was going to have him…..its the same with every woman.

IMO – Spanking/hitting a kid, may not do them harm but will it make them respect you? Could there be a much better way? Do we only spank our kids just because our parents did it to us, therefore we feel we MUST do the same? Can’t we figure this out for ourselves?

My dad not only spanked me but he beat the living tar out of me too, in the long run I winded up resenting him for it and I still do, I only wish he had of sat me down and talked to me and explained things better. He was a strict man, he was well educated and was spotless, he taught us right from wrong, but he went about it the hard way. I don’t know what its like to see it from the easy way.
Before I became a parent I used to think I had to bring my kids up when the time comes just in the same way I was raised, thinking that if it didn’t do me any REAL harm then that makes it OK….I was WRONG, my dad even admitted he did WRONG and that there are much better ways than smacking the tar out of your kids…he is right you know.

We ALL think we know how to handle kids but for those of you that don’t have any of your own ….tell me this…
Who are you accountable for?
Who else do you spend each day 24/7 worrying over?
Who else apart from yourself, do you take care of?
Are you carefree?

We all where at one point…we all had no REAL worries…we only cared about ourselves…we had a roof over our heads, our mom’s prepared our meals, we went to school, we made plans with our friends with no worries what so ever, we could run off on vacation with our friends and not worry who was going to look after our young, we could go out on the spare of the moment to a bar/nightclub and not care about anything else, other than what money we had to supply us with the drink ect and the cab fare home….all of that was our freedom…..but once one of us becomes a parent for the 1st time…all of the above soon changes, but not a change for the worse no but still a big change, and there is nothing we can do about it.

I used to hate the sound of a kid crying and yelling, when I saw a kid with a runny nose I would nearly puke as it turned me and I couldn’t bare to look at it. When I heard other parents rant about where their kids are and what times they expected their kids to be home for, I used to think they where over-reacting.

When I saw a father or mother run home from work to their sick child, I used to think the kid could wait and all they needed was a dose of Capol (kid medicine) and off to bed, whats the biggie? Why run home for that? And when I saw a kid misbehave and the parents just take their kid to one side and talk to them, I used to think, give them a good smack that will teach them……but when the time came for me….I soon saw it through their eyes….and man did I get an eye opener…and every single day I am still learning…..there isn’t a parent alive that KNOWS ALL…we all will continue to ask questions and learn whats best for our kids

I will put my life on the line for my child….but at the same time if after all the gentle love and caring I give my kid and she still plays up….cuz lets face it…I DON’T know if she will or not….but if she does….then I will find a way to deal with her…but I wont hit her…as I don’t want her resenting me like I did with my father, but if I have to discipline her I shall in my own good way and see what works best when the time comes, but I can only hope I dont have to.........…I live for the moment and will continue to learn….but for those of you that think you know…let me tell you…you only think…when the time comes you WILL see a different story all together…but if you wanna be cockey and still try and tell me im wrong……….okie dokie then…you know best LOL but you are the only one that think you do…good luck to ya

Very heartfelt post Bec's ma, I loved what you said about you woul find a way to guide without spanking, and you will , i think the mere desire brings in a alternative..With a mother such as you your daughter will be a joy to raise

The prisons are full of the undisciplined as well as the abused.
Like most things in life some balance is needed.

It is absolutely true that communication is the most important feature needed in good parenting.
You cannot teach or guide someone you do not know well or someone who does not understand you very well.
Reward or punishment based only upon actions without knowing the thought processes involved is useless and often harmful.

Bella no teenager is gonna listen to you if you have been punishing and rewarding, We have to parent in a way that sees the whole picture not just slap and punish and beat, you will have someone that resents you and wants you dead ask any kid who is hit on,across the board most of there time is spent hating the parents.......And the ole this is for your own good again ask a kid of around 10 on that one.....Parents end up with kids as this and wonder how Johnny got this way well Johnny got this way because of how Johnny was parented as simple as that its not rocket science.......

Generally the prisons are full of the abused and neglected.........

I never implied at any time time that just slapping and punishing a child is a good way to parent. Any child that is hit most of the time is a victim of child abuse.

Discipline is not child abuse and child abuse is not discipline.

Never disciplining a child is neglect. It is dysfiunctional neglect not to discipline in the wild animal kingdom as well as among humans. This type of neglect is just another side of abuse.

I had people give me advise at different times while I was raising my sons, and I chose my balance, as there are some mistakes made in life that should be feared as they lead to death.

My sons do not gamble, drink, use drugs, or cheat on females. They are both honor students in college and well on track to both go to law school. I do not have to guess how they will turn out as they are mostly already there, at ages 19 and 21.

But all children have different genetic tendencies that they inherit from their parents, and I really do not think that one size fits all parenting is not good at all. The only common rule I see that fits all parenting is to keep constant communication going.

I have tried to stay out of this topic because I have a lot of experience in tis issue. I have 2 stepsons that are now adults. My husband and I raised them. They were very young when I came into their lives. They were already full of unfortunate circumstances and I had a large hill to climb. One child was a pretty good and reasonable while the other was so mentally challenging he was like raising 10 kids. We did everything to create a happy relatively "normal" home life. I can tell you from years of experience that spanking doesn't do anything but create the propensity for a violent child. There are many nonviolent ways to disipline kids. Although no matter how hard you try, you just can't reason with a 2 yr old.Most of us take out our personal anger on our unsuspecting kids. My advice, GO TO THE GYM and work it off.
If you lay a good foundation when they're young you will have less turmoil when they get older. Although children will grow up reguardless of how they're raised. We have to remember that an animal doesn't send their young out into the world without the tools of knowledge to survive.
Becoming a parent isn't something I would recommend if a person is not ready to devote the rest of your life to loving their children. You can divorce a spouse but you can't do that with your children. No matter how proud they make you or how disappointed they make you they are forever attached to your heart. How they feel about you will either feel happy on your heart or heavy on it.

Thank you for sharing your heart on so many levels Curiosity. Bless the wisdom of your experience.

Thankyou Lady that is a very beautiful post, I agree the early years till about 5 are time consuming and alot of follow through and watching them very closely, that is the way it is and I too wouldn't recommend being a parent if you can't give 100% to those years those are the foundation the rest is smooth sailing from there just as you said.

I am a great parent with my adult children. They know that they can always get it straight when they come to me but they don't always like what they hear. The bottom line is that they love me and I know it.
I forgot to mention I have grandchildren and from experience I am very different with them. I am very stern but hands off so to speak. One of them is the reincarnation of my 10 in 1. I hope I can give his parents the insite I didn't have.

A good point to bring up.
I never once in their lives spanked my children out of anger.
The few times they were was when they were young it was to protect their lives.

When I was angry over something they had done, such as when I caught one lying once, I took the time to think up what seemed a suitable punishment, which at that time was cleaning the tub and toilet for a week all by themselves as well as garbage and cat pan duty.

I told them that employers fire their employees if they catch them lying to them and this is the only type of work you will be lucky to get if lying becomes a habit to you.

I think relative consequences are important. Real life has consequences if warnings are ingored.

I have no idea what kind of a grandparent I will be. I always feel that women do not care to hear much advice of any kind from a mother-in-law, so I guess I will just tell my sons they can ask me anything they want but I might feel hesitant in saying even that much to their wives.

Things did not go well all that often between me and my own mother-in-law.

i use the word guide I have a son my middle son who was a product of a divorce and very challenging , not once did i hit him or punish him If i had to remind him a hundred times a day we do this not this, we love each other and some days i was crying myself ( he would spit on me hit me and call me names) we got through and he is a wonderful boy now had I off rationlized smacking or punishing i would of compounded the problem emoitonally crippled him, we as a family got help and worked togehter even when it didn't seem it was gonna work so i do know quite abit about difficult children, he is 12 now and a joy and we are very close and he is the more compassionate of my three,LOVE LOVE LOVE got us there...many people said knock the crap out of him , he couldn't handle the divorce he was a 2 year old boy and very upset and acting out we provided a a safe and secure envoirment he wanted his mommy to come home.....We bring on our problems and we have to be willing to be responsible in order to change them........

This is a perfect example of nonviolent punishment. Good for you bella.

i use the word guide I have a son my middle son who was a product of a divorce and very challenging , not once did i hit him or punish him If i had to remind him a hundred times a day we do this not this, we love each other and some days i was crying myself ( he would spit on me hit me and call me names) we got through and he is a wonderful boy now had I off rationlized smacking or punishing i would of compounded the problem emoitonally crippled him, we as a family got help and worked togehter even when it didn't seem it was gonna work so i do know quite abit about difficult children, he is 12 now and a joy and we are very close and he is the more compassionate of my three,LOVE LOVE LOVE got us there...many people said knock the crap out of him , he couldn't handle the divorce he was a 2 year old boy and very upset and acting out we provided a a safe and secure envoirment he wanted his mommy to come home.....We bring on our problems and we have to be willing to be responsible in order to change them........

The same here. She is a conservative evangelical and I'm a liberal N/B. Worlds apart then but now we have grown on each other.
I try to let my kids raise their own kids and handle their own marriages but I am there if they need me. My MIL was always interfering in our marriage and I learned never to do that with my kids.

Bless your heart Sheri. No, I never had to go through any situation remotely like that. I am glad that things have turned out well for both of you.

Hahah! Close to same here. She is a ROMAN Roman Catholic, a German who does not accept Vatican 2 and I am a Unitarian.
We are closer now at last as well.
I think I will follow your lead for the future and hope I can become closer to my daughter-in-laws much sooner than what we did.

How can you not, given you saw it through with your first encounter of little boy 10 in 1.
I believe parenting is a privilege, and one of the greatest selfless responsibilities we can ever hope to assume as adults. Especially if we imagine we have learned enough to impart ourselves and that wisdom, to the little minds of those just beginning the journey under our care.
I look into the eyes of children and I see wide eyed joy as they take in everything around them without the discriminatory perception gleaned from so many years of living under the rules that others instill in them as to what's what, in all they see. It is true, one must teach a child to hate. Because when they first look at everything and everyone, they are excited and happy and want to touch it or put it in their mouths. They want to get to know that tactile encounter that makes it real in the limited consciousness they are possessed of in those very early months of life.

And I wonder, as I witness so many different people see the world at large on the playground they all share, what an impact it is as each parent guides and corrects their own child in how to play. Some are brusque disciplinarians; voicing a sharp reprimand as they guide their daughter from playing with a sprinkler head near the fence. Which then makes that babe imagine that particular thing is particularly bad because it made mommy so upset. So then I see that little one days later, playing with her new rabbit, hoping him around the grass, close enough to but not quite in reach of that same sprinkler head.
Mama is distracted in chat with another mom playing horsey with her son, as she bounces him on her knee and talks about grown up things while she rests assured little Brian is right where she can keep an eye on him.

But baby girl is still curious about that naughty thing that makes mama scream, and so she inches closer in her hoppy play with Bunny.

I think despite the best intentions, kids will always need to satisfy something in their own levels of curiosity, despite disciplines that seek to instill the understanding of what's best for them, so they need not learn it the hard way.
And I think how a parent instills the understanding, whether violently or passively, is in no wise able to guarantee the lesson has an impact, because the child is first a unique individual mind that has it's own evolving understanding of what they see in this world of all new things, and how curious their natures are to find out for themselves, so that they know for themselves what it means to be part of this world. Regardless of every attempt to instill they don't want to find out personally because it could be painful. I think many kids need to know what that means too. They are making their way through this world with the guidance of those wiser for the journey ahead of time. However I think it a mistake to imagine anyone can preclude a child's own unique nature that causes them to also define what it means through their own level of understanding at the same time.

It's fine to take credit for parenting a good child. However I think it vital to give credit that the child be given credit in their own right, in teaching us to remember what it was like not to take everything so seriously we forget what it was like to see it all as wondrously as a child.

Why thankyou Bella, it was the greatest challenge of my entire life, it wasn't just me it was my ex and my hubby now and a dear friend who was a child physcplogist and we worked togehter never losing site of the bigger picture, I know from personal experince you can survive the worst with a child with love, we all actually laugh and joke about it now, including my son and he thinks his mom and Dad's are awesome, he adores his step father as if its his dad we all enjoy (the ex) an amazing freindship, My ex went on to counsel other familys in our situation for a living and its all good.

You know IM Fr we model how we want them to be..........Maybe that just sounds to simple but thats the truth they will become what we have modeled..... Nothing gets by a kid nothing they are watching everymove we make and mimicing.......I as a parent have a huge responsibility to put into a society a loving, compassionate, tolerant, fair, open diverse etc etc individual and the way is through my example........However unique i make it its on me.....

True Bella..employers would fire their employees for doing wrong such as lying, theiving..gross misconduct of any kind and not a darn thing anyone can do about that.

When my kid gets old enough to talk to me, I hope she doent lie to me I will do my best to teach her right from wrong...but in the off chance she does, and lets face it, everyone of us have fibbed the odd time, I will find a better way to deal with it other than hitting her...there are other ways pretty much like what you had posted to put them in their place...like housework ect..things a lot of kids hate doing and im sure i'll come up with other ways too, ways that wont harm her at all

I forgot to mention it's Mothers Day over here today...I got two mothers day cards...whoohhoo to me One was from my great old Aunt Mary (the 103yr old lady I had the weird dream about) just wishing me well on my 1st mothers day...and the second was from why Becky of course...it read...

To my mommy

I just wanted to send you a little card on your first mothers day to say I love you very much, that's why I smile every time I see you. I love you mommy, thank you for having me...Love Rebecca xxxoxx Awwwww bless her lil cotton socks


Well to all you mothers out there and to Sheri, bacca, curiosity & Bella ect...here's to you all in advance...Happy Mothers Day

Happy Mothers Day Bec's ma and my niece has gotta great mother too...

Awww Thank You Sheri.. and come May 8th I will wish you a bigger happy mothers day...and will be looking forward to the day after mothers day if you know what I mean..it will be something to celebrate

Happy

BM and all the other "mutha's" in the UK I wish you a belated Mothers Day.

you could let your child do whatever he wants and grow up to be spoiled brat. j/k

Or you can do my preferred method: When a child wants to do something that will bring harm to him, secluding him will only make him want to do it more. Educating him however is proper. So when he makes the mistake, he can only blame himself and learn to take your advice more seriously. This will develop an appreciation between the child and parent. The parent (who guides) has guided well and the child learns to follow and seek after the parent's advice. So when the parent council's the child about things such as morals, wisdom, obedience, understanding, the child listens, for the child appreciates the parents advice. I advice to build this appreciation at the child's early age. A respect for authority is the most beneficial for a child.

Now ofcourse, there are the disobedient children who only want to cause havoc for some reason and no matter how well you treat him, he will always do whats bad for himself and/or hurt others. What shall we do for these?

Blue its actually funny how so many think only in extremes if you aren't beating or isolating a child you must be letting them run wild do what ever they want....What I would ask you is how would you be getting respect from your child????Are you for corporal punishment?????

I actually agree with you a parent that has guided well will have a responsible, compasionate resepctful child(as I'm sure you can agree Blue its not rocket science)

Many Thanks Curiousity, I.Friend, Zandore (thanks for the pm) and again to Sheri

I dunno, i guess different kids handle discipline differently. Some never learn from their mistakes, but instead do it to get a rise out of people. Some, no matter how much you educate them and encourage them will always scorn authority. These are the god-complex people who only care for themselves; selfish. I dunno how to discipline them except to let them know it hurts you and set them off on their own. If they feel they don't need authority over them, let them out in the world for a bit and just pray the best for them. They'll either dig themselves deeper or come running home. Now, I guess we couldn't do that either because that would be unloving and bad parenting according to many. But what can you do? A loving parent holds on loosely I guess.

Do you beleive in corporal punishment?????ALL CHILDREN EMULATE THEIR PARENTS..
What does that say to you???

I say its a load. I don't emulate my parents. My mom spanked me all the time and my dad spanked me once. My mom's boyfriend when I was little spanked me for the littlest things, and the second man my mom married beat me and my brother. We got punished for long periods of time as well. My wife may feel that corporal punishement is neccessary, but I don't. I feel that if you build your child up to have an appreciation for you then let your child how much it effects you when your child acts up, then perhaps that child will stop. But I must admit, if my child acts up like I did, it will take a miracle to not spank him.

Have you even considered other methods of punishment other than spanking?

Blue i have raised three awesome boys without corporal punsihment including without time outs and all the other clever ways parents isolate their kids, my oldest is 22 my youngest is 8 and middle 12......I'm sorry to hear you were beaten on as a child, so you would know exactly what that does to a child ......Tahnkyou for sharing your story , its good to raise awareness and let others know the effects of hitting children...I have not found it a 'miracle' not to hit my kids actually to guide in love (not the generic reward punishment love better known as fear) but to guide in a ways that benefits the child and humanity is natural and effortless.......

i admit, sometimes I zoned into my own world and something like a stern smack on the bum was needed to bring me back to earth. I guess it taught me respect for authority, but then again, life was pretty messed up. If dad was there, things may have been different. Oh, well. I'm fine, but perhaps I'm the lucky few. Respect is a must in all parenting though, we must gain it from the child in order for the child to listen to us. I guess others believe respect should be earned before it is given. I believe respect should be given to all until it is lost. Thats my opinion though.

Somehow, though, I do believe that sparing the rod can spoil the child. It really just depends on the kid I guess...and perhaps the parenting.