It s religious concept spare the rod spoil the child, It has accounted for many a abused child....The most effective way to teach respect is model it towards the child, , a child should feel safe and know that those that love him are trust worthy, a child will aspire to the highest behavior and take great pride in being the best person he can, Kids aspire to be what the parent tells them they are...... I don't know about you but it would be hard pressed for me to resepct one that communicated through hitting, I would say they were very primitive in there understandings and not suited for parenting.....

I suppose so.

AND....
Ahem...me again...about post 249???

Great question Bec's Ma....Have you Blue?????*(post 249)

Outstanding response!
I agree wholeheartedly.

JM I wouldn't think you would hit a child or are you guys joking??????

If they hit their kids...I feel sorry for the kids..I so hope they are joking

Sheri I know that you may not agree with popping your child but not everyone agrees with that...I have popped my son I'll admit it and I don't regret it for a minute....if me popping his behind makes him understand that opening the door and walking outside is wrong then so be it....I have never even so much as left a red mark on him but he knows when he doesn't something bad enough that mommy pops him it was really bad....I have never popped him while angry and he does not fear me....he actually thinks making me mad now is rather amusing (six year olds )

It's a choice as a parent Sheri and right or wrong good or bad from your way of thinking your.....belief system....doesn't automatically make yours right and everyone else's wrong....yes I as a child got popped on occassion and I'm well i'm here A normal pop isn't going to damage a child......the statistics are coming from something a lot more then that....or over reactive adults who want to blame there bad behavior on anyone but themselves

Bac its just a discussion on parenting , certainly you aren't disputing that if at all possible hitting should be a last resort if at all??? you are correct each has to parent the way they see fit , I don't stand in judgement of anyone's parenting I just say there is other ways that are worth looking into, The statistics are in in many states its an issue to hit your child, in some to yell that them , it causes more harm then good, now how much or if a rare last resort smack is damaging i don't know, but i as a parent would err on the side of caution, I have not had a problem guiding my children with no hitting or time outs or other punishments...Its not nessecarily my beleif system its the current movement of rearing children alot more is known now, I'm going with that and so far so good, my oldest is 22........

Just for the records ladies and gents: My daughter is 13 1/2. In her entire life, I have hit her once.
She was about five, we were in a parking lot headed to the stores when she pulled her hand out of mom's grip and ran without looking straight into traffic. I grabbed her just before she got in front of a vehicle. She received one solid swat on the ass because she had been told, and told, and told again about fooling around where there are moving cars.

I admit that the shot came as a result of adrenelene and nerves, but I must say that she has never repeated that kind of behavior.

Now I do not recommend regular spankings for misbehavior, there are other avenues for corrective discipline. But, there are some situations where a physical reinforcement of the verbal message may, I say may, need to be introduced.

You got it dude.

umm ok

JM I knew hitting wasn't your primary way of parenting , I wanted that to be clear, I can understand in that situation a parent would be freaked out... I have myself been in that situation i didn't hit though and it never happened again.......

Ummm. Now THAT is a lie. Scroll back a few pages and look at how you repsonded to every one of my posts.

You know how I learned not to touch fire? I touched it, and I felt pain. Pain is a part of what keeps us safe. Spanking isn't used just to harm a child, and it isn't suppose to be REALLY painful, just hard enough so they know what they have done is wrong.

For what it's worth, I do spank my kids, and don't have any plans to stop anytime soon. I'm not religious, I spank because I know it works from my own experiences as a kid and as a parent. And I won't even make the excuse that it's a last resort; if my kids are misbehaving they get one warning. After that they get the punishment they earned by not listening to the warning. If people have a problem with spanking--well, it's a free country and nobody's forcing them to use it, are they?

Great post.

Zero,wallflower you each demonstrate a limited perspective on basic human understandings, least of all raising children, fortunately the laws are reflective of protecting our children...More and more parents such as you are finding themselves in court gone are the days you can beat your kids no questions asked ...thats a good thing...
My heart goes out to your children Wallflower, i bet you think it causes no harm too.... I don't agree with philosophys that cause harm to others I'm surprised so many actually take a stand for abuse, well you learn something new everyday

Actually I think you do. And on top of that, you lack the respect towards others opinions that differ from your own. You can't accept that others have a different way of doing things than you do. You think your way is right and eveyone elses' is wrong.


sheri, please elaborate on what "Harm" you are talking about. What type of harm does spanking do? Because just as I, and many others have said, we have been spanked and we have not become like those who are abused or beaten. We were not harmed because we were spanked, we learned.


I'm sorry that you're spankaphobic. Are you truly that afraid of being spanked?

You try so hard to make spanking look like abuse, but you fail everytime. It's as funny as someone getting plucked by a friend(as a joke) and calling the police for harrasment. You must teach your kids to be extremely sensitive.

Rather harsh Sheri. Spanking isn't against the law, spanking is not abuse, it is not beating your kids silly. It is though an effective method in teaching discipline.
I love and respect my parents deeply, we have a wonderful and honest relationship. And....they spanked me. Oh God, I'm scarred for life, I'm going to take it out on my kids now. Come on, its ridiculous!

There is no justifiable reason to resort to physical punishment or some type of intimidation of a child, an adolescent, or a teen. If you have been a successful parent and socialized your child then your words and the way in which you articulate them will be more than efficient. (my friend Micheal)

Zero you posted this, it shows you do not have any idea of what you are talking about and you don't even know that you don't
"I never disagreed with that. I only said that your parents do not influence you much at certain ages. And alof of young kids, are also this way. They like to do things their own way. Not because that's a result of how the parents raised them, but it's part of their personality. I must note that we are born with a personality(no crap, eh), not every little thing and behavior is a result of what our parents did, or the environments we were in."


You are the one who takes a stand for hitting children and trying to convince me this is appropriate parenting, I need to accept this its your way or the highway okay


I was reading on another thread how you said you are selfish, and if you had your way you would be robbing and what not , i said you should think higher of your self because there are alot of good things about you, Why is a 18 year old boy who has his life ahead so much to experince and discover talk like that????then he tells me he wasn't affected by his childhood...

And you have proof that I said these things because of my childhood? My parents always told me to treat others like I want to be treated. And that I should always work for what I earn, not to just take it. Stealing was always wrong in my family.

You still have nothing on what me and others have been saying. I told you on that other thread I said all those things to pull your legs and see what types of replies I'd get from NBs.



Also, why in the hell does saying "I would steal if I needed to and I'm a bit selfish" show that one has low self esteem? Most with low self asteam aren't selfish.

I made no judgment on it i asked you and you said you were messing around????Why ????Why wouldn't you want us to see the person you want to be , the person who actually loves animals....The person who stands for something.....do you have low self esteem Zero????Explain to me how yo are not your enviorment or the influence of your parents , they model the universe to you, they tell you about the world Zero by the way they treat you...Did they encourage you?? You talk often of how you ( a kid) were the casue of everything and
you deserved to be treated the way you were..these are your posts i'm just responding zero..
Funny how many posters had childhoods where they were hit and no one but you is saying it was kool and neat and fun....the only way to go and every person that hits there kid you are high fiving em telling them good job........Its casue for a question or two Zero....

My parents have absolutley nothing to do with who I am. I am my self and I make my own decisions. Sure, they make try and help me make decisions and tell me what they beleive IN THEIR OPINION is right and wrong, but I am the one who chooses what to do and how to live.

And by the way, I can be a cocky SOB at times, so no I don't have low self esteem.


And hell yeah I deserved to be spanked. If I purposley disobey my parents just to piss them off for a giggle, then you're damn right I need to be punished for it. If you don't agree with this, then hey, whatever floats your boat. Im not here to sink it.

Being cocky isn't a sign of high self esteem Zero lol

You're joking right? Cocky as in... thinks alot of himself. Wait, maybe I should say "Confident".

then shouldn't your posts reflect that???? I read the majority of them.One who is confident doesn't describe himself as selfish and one step away form being the worst person on earth if it wasn't for religon.......I'll let you know on the posts that aren't reflective of one who is so confident...lol

":tu:I said what if. It's a hypothetical question. Would you apologize to all those you've called ignorant?"
A confident person wouldn't see one uisng the word ignorant to derfine something as a insult especially directed at him, many things you take personal LB

One on the defense alot isn't generally confident....Just my two cents Zero....

You can't know much about me by reading on these forums. I am totally different in real life. Don't expect to know someone over the internet, I mean come on.


You only THINK I take what you say personaly.

very well then Zero, you didn't say that to me ...but anyhoo its not important..I'll be sure to keep that in mind that you are messing around not to take you to serious............

The laws in all 50 states permit spanking...sorry if that bums you out, but I can cite any state law you want...guess you'll just have to deal with bad parents like me for the time being.

I beg to differ you cocky child!......
Read up on parenting.

Child Development &
Parenting Information

Welcome to our award winning site for information on child development, child psychology, parenting, learning, health and safety as well as childhood disorders such as attention deficit disorder, dyslexia and autism.

We provide comprehensive resources and practical suggestions for parents covering toddlers to teens. Our site is recommended by Psychology Today and the American Psychological Association.

Parenting 101

If one was to drop a dime on you. You would find it a vey different story, I know for a fact that spanking is not allowed in my state you would be taking parenting classes and you should be taking them anyways.Spanking a kid says you are out of control and often it leads to far more serious spanking , if it worked it would only be need to be done once,thats what you aren't understanding something that 'works doesn't require doing it over and over......


Zan the berri man thankyou my friend for the link very good

How nice, let the school system teach them in place of the parent.
What utter wimps. No wonder there is so much chaos in schools today.
I had no idea the experts insitgated this. I had thought it came from disinterest and neglect from parents. TY for post.

How to Help Your Child Adjust to School Rules

Once in school, your child's customary freedom of choice is suddenly reined in by demands that she walk in a line, wait to talk, take turns playing with the most desirable toys, forgo eating her snack until everyone else is served, and ask permission to use the bathroom. Because your preschooler views much of the world through the unrealistic lens of her all-powerful self, she may well experience the multitude of school rules and regulations as oppressive and, more significantly, as applying to other children but not to her.

If your child resists classroom socializing, this does not mean that you should have been tougher on her; this reaction serves to emphasize the importance of her years of relative freedom. If you have consistently encouraged and facilitated your child's wish to make choices for herself, she actually will adapt more easily to the school's imposition of structure, because she will not enter school with a broken spirit or locked in a chronic battle with authority. Your child will soon realize that a few irritating rules and regulations are a small price to pay for the opportunities to engage in the exciting activities and satisfying social relationships that school can offer.

Did you find that at the link?

Just this morning on the radio, I heard a news item. Apparantly, a woman went into a supermarket, and left her two kids, 9 and 5, asleep in the car. She was away from the vehicle, which was locked, for approximately 20 minutes.

While she was gone, someone noticed the kids in the car and called the Police. She is now in court facing two counts of endangering the welfare of a minor, and could possibly lose custody of her children.

I'm not sure if it fits into the rest of the thread, but thought it interesting.

Anyone care to comment?

Yes. I read the sites you post. Call me crazy but they are often interesting to me.

PLEASE READ FOR THOSE WHO THINK CORPORAL PUNISHMENT IS NOT HARMING A CHILD



There are indications that, like Sweden and five other countries that have instituted no-spanking laws, Canada and Germany may also be moving to ban corporal punishment (Straus & Paschall, 1998). Nonetheless, it has been estimated that more than 90% of parents use corporal punishment on toddlers and more than half continue to use it during the early teen years .

Corporal punishment can be used to suppress undesirable behavior BUT CANNOT TEACH DESIREABLE BEHAVIOR. The main rationale parents have for using corporal punishment is that it will have an effect on their children; although some parents may spank their children out of frustration with their aggressive behavior, even then they do so to stop the behavior. It is no shock to anyone thatINDEED A PARENT'S BEHAVIORS DO AFFECT children and that disciplinary behaviors may be primed to have more of an effect than other behaviors because they typically involve arousal of both child and parent Spanking does affect the quality of parent-child relationship, the child's mental health, increase the odds that the child will be in danger of being a victim of physical child abuse, it increases the possibilityof aggression in adulthood,, delinquent and antisocial behavior, and criminal and antisocial behavior in adulthoodcan lead to the abuse of own child or spouse. The negative outcomes on the use of corporal punishment are noteworthy.

Newsom, Favell, and Rincover (1983) pointed out that every punishment technique has four effects: the primary effect (i.e., response suppression), a physical effect (physiological consequences), secondary effects (side effects), and social effects (reactions in persons other than the recipient of the punishment).
Use of corporal punishment does not promote cooperative, reciprocal relationships, it does not fit with the contemporary understanding of how positive parent-child relationships develop (e.g., Maccoby, 1992).


Consider a spanking incident from the child's end. When a child is spanked, powerful sensory information and physiological reactions are elicited. From the child's viewpoint, corporal punishment is an assault (i.e., knowingly or intentionally causing physical pain) by a powerful adult and consequently is believed by some to be “deeply traumatic” (Straus, 2001, p. 9). Assuming the corporal punishment was executed appropriately so it was sufficiently painful, various neurophysiological stress reactions are likely to occur (see McEwen, 2001). It is likely the child then experiences intense emotional arousal and one or more particular emotions (i.e., fear, anger, humiliation, embarrassment, or perhaps sadness),It is now beleived to cause trauma which in some cases lasts the ifetime including witnessinga sibling being hit....

Oh really? See the following:

Lungren Opinion 97-416 (July 21, 1997)

and this case, which is a textbook example of why we have juries:

Dad Takes a Beating Over His 12-Year-Old's Spanking

You won't win a debate with me about what the laws say. Parents who are in anger management classes are usually rednecks who either really are abusive or else don't know their rights or what the law is.

The same could be said for any punishment whatsoever. If you walk up to the child, spank them, and walk away without saying a word, it would be a relevant objection. But I don't know anyone who does that, do you?

I'm talking about my state not yours, a parent that is hitting their child doesn't know how to parent wallflower it doesn't matter where he comes from...Did you read the article I posted any comments????

Wallflower a good friend of ours had his child taken from him for spanking you are providing old studies its 2006 alot has changed and is continuing to change...

Your profile says Redondo Beach, is that not accurate? Which other state would you like me to look up? Yes, I have read articles like that my whole life, and I think they're tendentious, question-begging bilge from beginning to end.

Wall flower wth do you think you are accomplishing by beating your children???your studys are old I'm very well aware of how spanking is handled lol....

They aren't studies, one is an article describing a jury acquittal and one is the opinion of the state Attorney General. The laws have not changed since 1997. Let me repeat--people who have CPS problems over spanking (as opposed to beating) simply don't know the laws...

Sorry Wallflower, I must disagree with you. Almost every state has had to rewrite/append their Child Abuse Laws since 1997. Consider TV and video game ratings, the internet, and, overall, how we as a society today define abuse.

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/family_la...buse/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Michael

A light swat or two on the hand or bottom is to beating a child, what a peck on the lips is to sexual intercourse.

This hysteria that it is all the same is as nuts as the Puritans were about holding hands.
It is non-productive and irrational.

Have a good parenting course in high school added to sex ed. Seems rational they should go together anyway. Have a variety of methods for punishment taught for consistent disobediance (and what that is) and do not leave it to the school system to have to teach them consequences because some wimp told parents not too, that school was where they should learn how reality works in the world.

I am totally against corporal punishment in schools. That is where people should be concentrating in my own opinion. I do not believe non-parents have any more right to physically punish a child than they do to take the child's clothes off to do a body search.
If things are that bad they should contact the parent to come and take them home.

MyParenTime.com's 3-29-2006




Corporal Punishment in Schools
When sending your children off to school, would you imagine that someone else is allowed to physically discipline them?


When you send your children off to school, do you believe you're sending them to a safe and loving learning environment? Are you aware that some states still allow schools to physically discipline your child?

Corporal punishment is banned in only 27 US states, and a few allow it with certain restrictions. The states that prohibit corporal punishment in standards for licensing child care programs allow exemptions for certain types of programs or under certain conditions.

Wallflower it seems you donot know what you are talking about and i'll leave it at that...I can't tell you how many have said the things you are saying whilst they are attending parenting classes, It seems so cut and dry, CPS has the law on there side you have to prove to them you are a worthy parent, you may get your child back but i can tell you its not that cut and dry....I know many people who have actually gone through the experience,CPS is there to protect the child its the right of the child to be in a safe enviorment and if CPS comes in you will have to prove that........

Of course I didn't mean no child abuse law has changed since '97. I meant that the statutory definition of physical abuse in California hasn't changed since '97. That is to say, spanking remains legal.

Also...how "we as a society" define abuse? Who is society? Me? Sheri? The government? That would be three different definitions right there.

bella you have no other parenting style to referrence so in all fairness you aren't making sense...the parents that have successfully parented children in love are many, it is not only harmful to hit a child it will not get you what you think it will, its interesting to me that you would be against CP in school but not in the home....

I am also against it without parental consent. I went to a private school for a few years that did use the paddle and see nothing wrong with that if the parents want it.